Heh.
TJ - if washing up Brand A was £1.25, Brand B was £1.25 and Brand C £1.25, however Brand B was on a special offer - buy one, get one free, which would you buy?
Initially quite funny, now the most tedious thread ever.
Some of us are not gullible fools, some of us can see thru the bullshit.
you are not immune to branding though, brand awareness is reinforced by marketing activities.
just because you feel you are not gullible enough to be swayed by direct advertising and it's spurious claims to whiter whites, firmer stools, limescale removal and a dandruff free existence doesn't mean your choices of brands are not influenced by marketing.
I could kill it right away if it wasn't so damn funny.davosaurusrex - Member
Initially quite funny, now the most tedious thread ever.
Crazy marketing skillz too.
Don Simon, as he doesn't even know about the 4Ps and clearly knows nothing about marketing he'll miss your point entirely...
That point being he's volunteered as a brand advocate about a product he likes, which he prefers to other brands (and like HtS, has provided, of his own free will the company with free advertising and saved them some marketing budget...)
I used to live with a guy like this 'marketing is manipulative, cynical and I want nothing to do with it etc' and yet he was the most enthusastic advocate of Dyson vacuum cleaners I've ever met 'amazing, brilliant, nothing else beats them etc' I left him to it in the end...
he was the most enthusastic advocate of Dyson vacuum cleaners I've ever met
No point in trying to reason with someone like that, Miele Cat & Dog is clearly the only 'hoover' to have.
Forgive me if someone has already said this, I haven't read the whole thread, but isn't the little orange turd supposed to be a flame?
This is my favourite post of the day so far. So innocently on topic and as it happens I thought it was a flame too.
The Southern Yeti - Member
No point in trying to reason with someone like that, Miele Cat & Dog is clearly the only 'hoover' to have.
I see what you did there, even if you didn't mean to 😀
Depends what you think I did...
I know what you did, you just may not have meant to.
Please tell me, I've got my biro ready to take notes.
Wouldn't it be ironic if it transpired that the people who understood the influence of marketing and thus could work around it were least affected by it, and those who claimed immunity to it by denying it influenced their purchases was by extension the most affected?
I beg to differ. Its perfectly possible to reduce its pernicious influence to a minimum by concentrating on need not want and matching the qualities you need with the qualities of the objects on offer.
I think this is where you miss the point - matching qualities you need to the qualities of products is MARKETING.
The marketing people understand what you need, and design or create a product to meet those needs.
A product doesn't just magically appear without your needs being considered.
How do you know what something is before you have bought it?
[quote=TJ]read the label?
So..... read the[b] Marketing[/b] information on the Packaging then ?
[quote=TJ]Look at it?
And again, the way a product looks and feels is erm....... [b]Marketing[/b]
[quote=TJ]research beforehand?
Ah, Internet [b]Marketing[/b] or Maybe another media, but either way...... [b]Marketing [/B]
Well done, you've proved yourself wrong 
Ie,
How not to be affected by marketing:
Buy a different brand of $item each time you shop. Note which you favour and which you don't. Once you've tried them all, weigh up which gives the best results for the price.
How to be affected by marketing:
Believe you can ignore it. Choose "randomly."
I've done this with some products I use regularly. Eg, comparing Tesco Value $blah to Tesco regular brand $blah to Heinz $blah, I might find that the two Tesco ones are indistinguishable, but the Heinz is nicer. So if I want 'nice' I buy Heinz, and if I want to save my pennies I know that there's zero point in buying the regular Tesco product and can go straight to the Value ones. On reflection, I then decide that the taste difference is worth the price differential, so I buy the Heinz in future. Or not, as the case may be.
I've done this irrespective of name, label, brand snobbery etc. So I think that now, when I go and buy $blah, I'm genuinely unaffected by marketing; I'm making a conscious, informed purchase. Aren't I?
Wouldn't it be ironic if it transpired that the people who understood the influence of marketing and thus could work around it were least affected by it, and those who claimed immunity to it by denying it influenced their purchases was by extension the most affected?
Mainly correct IME.
The only way IMO to be immune to marketing is to have very high self-awareness, and total honesty about your motivations, weaknesses, need for status, belonging and the identity you wish to project about yourself.
Very difficult to achieve of course... possibly only Ghandi and the Dalai Lama come close!
However, I'm not sure that many people working in Marketing are self-aware enough to understand how marketing impacts on their own buying decisions.
IME those most vociferously 'anti' and insist they are immune are, by that very statement, lacking any of the required insight and self-awareness.
In fact, by refusing to study the principles of marketing, they remain ignorant to it and therefore less able to resist it. Best way IMO would be to study it, spend time with a few people in the industry, understand how it works, and then you will be more able to understand and avoid it...
I suspect the antis are driven by a fear of being manipulated. Which is fair enough, I hate people trying to manipulate me. But that fear won't go away by denying its existence...
I've done this irrespective of name, label, brand snobbery etc. So I think that now, when I go and buy $blah, I'm genuinely unaffected by marketing; I'm making a conscious, informed purchase. Aren't I?
Possibly.
Of course the very idea of thinking 'I need some baked beans', may be due to Heinz putting awareness of the product in the public's mind in the first place
The price of the product is surely a massive part of the marketing thought process too, as evidenced by Tesco normal and Tesco value brand tasting the same. I'd argue that by buying the value beans, you're affected by the decisions if the marketing team to aim their product at the budget shopper.
I admire TJ for sticking to his guns in the face of such compelling arguments. What confuses me is the willingness to argue against the effectiveness of marketing on one hand while openly embracing it with the other.
Why use the brand name for a sale here when the brand name is meaningless. Could the product not be sold using the intrinsic qualities?
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/raceface-turbine-chain-rings ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/raceface-turbine-chain-rings[/url]
Same with the wanted, wouldn't you get a better and more accurate response simply listing the intrinsic qualities?
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hope-bulb-rear-hub ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hope-bulb-rear-hub[/url]
Or is it a case that the brand is self defining and we know the intrinsic qualities simply by using the brand.
TJ, you use marketing techniques to buy and sell, yet claim to be able to withstand its allure.
Credibility is being lost by the second TJ.
DS using brand names is one way (the easiest) of describing different products, you are barking up the wrong tree.
DS using brand names is one way (the easiest) of describing different products, you are barking up the wrong tree.
True.
But which part of the business is responsible for the brand?
Mainly correct IME.
The only way IMO to be immune to marketing is to have very high self-awareness, and total honesty about your motivations, weaknesses, need for status, belonging and the identity you wish to project about yourself.Very difficult to achieve of course... possibly only Ghandi and the Dalai Lama come close!
OT but seriously? The Dalai Lama? The man who claims to be the priest king of a nation? Who focuses his whole strategy projecting and an ascetic attitude whilst trying to regain his place as head of a feudal nation divided by social and religious classes? Or do you mean a different Dalai Lama
More importantly, which Gandhi does brooess mean ? ....... there's been so many Gandhis.
I do hope brooess comes back and makes clear which Gandhi and Dalai Lama he means. I'm really quite confused.
Speaking of Ghandi,
Mahatma Gandhi walked barefoot everywhere, to the point that the skin on his feet became quite thick and hard.
He was also a very spiritual person. Even when he was not on a hunger strike, he did not eat much and as a result became quite thin and frail. Unfortunately, due to this diet he also wound up with very bad breath. Therefore, he came to be known as a super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis.
Therefore, he came to be known as a super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis.
That sounds like something quite atrocious 😐
ok, for clarity then!
Ghandi - the Mahatma one in glasses and a robe and not much else
Dalai Lama - the Tibetan one who's still alive and bothering the Chinese. Also wears a robe.
The point being, the levels of self-awareness of your own motivations and psychology required to be immune to marketing, are, IMO, heroic to the point of needing to be a saint...
Either way, after 16 years of being a marketing practitioner, I totally agree that a fair chunk of marketing is exaggeration, false, lazy, cheap manipulation etc and I despise it and those who create it for the sake of their own careers. Like RLJers, it gives the whole community a bad name.
But I will defend good marketing which is honest, helps people make choices about what to buy and keeps honest companies in business by helping them sell stuff. Not to mention charity marketing and tourism marketing and other less corporate forms... And I don't like my profession being attacked by people who have no knowledge or experience of marketing and are coming at it from an ignorant/ideological point of view...essentially prejudice...
double post
The point being, the levels of self-awareness of your own motivations and psychology required to be immune to marketing, are, IMO, heroic to the point of needing to be a saint...
Well that is what confuses me, nothing saintly about this Dalai Lama. He may be immune to marketing, but only because he is a world class expert.
So it's not a great example.
The point behind it remains the same though 🙄
Interesting topic (if you ignore the trollposts),
as someone who doesn't fully understand the intricacies of branding/marketing/selling my thoughts are something like this:
[b]Brand awareness[/b] - I know Shimano are a major cycle parts producer, their stuff is pretty much everywhere so hard to miss.
I also know through trial and error that a Shimano size 44 shoe fits me spot on, so when I buy shoes I buy Shimano because they are a widely available brand which suits my needs
[b]Marketing[/b] I presume Shimano carry out global research on potential sales areas and design/produce products at a variety of price bands to fill those markets, so maximising sales
[b]Advertising[/b] special offers/product displays via retailers and "aspirational" magazine/web presence (buy this and be like xxxxx or buy this and live like xxxxxx)
I can think I am immune to advertising (but probably aren't), know I'm affected by marketing (as a member of a potential target group) and enjoy the benefits of branding as it lets me choose a product which I have previous experience of....
...would that pretty much sum it up for most people
Credibility is being lost by the second TJ.
i don't fall for your marketing bulls*te, he has no credibility to lose.
I know, but I do think I/we need to take the opportunity to dispel the notion of the Dalai Lama as a benign teddy bear.
So anyway......I told the 17th National Congress of the Party [i]"we need to take the opportunity to dispel the notion of the Dalai Lama as a benign teddy bear".[/i] And it seemed to go down rather well.
[img] http://www.a1social.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/politiburo.jp g" target="_blank">
I know, but I do think I/we need to take the opportunity to dispel the notion of the Dalai Lama as a benign teddy bear.
Consider it dispelled.
(irrelevant, but dispelled 😉 )
Some of the posts here were the funniest seen on STW for a while.... *doffs cap to the comedians*
So anyway......I told the 17th National Congress of the Party "we need to take the opportunity to dispel the notion of the Dalai Lama as a benign teddy bear". And it seemed to go down rather well.
Is that our hero, Hitch I see there?
Oh dear - I really should not have dipped back into this. Very funny tho that there is two more pages of people I have never met trying to tell me I do things I know I do not
its quite phenomenal how many of you simply miss the point
Junkyard - lots and lots of phrases where I qualify the absolute. even in your quote most people would not take "bugger all" as absolute zero would they? Why yo keep on doing this selective quoting and then inventing things yo claim I will say is rather obsessive
One more go
What you guys seem unable to understand is the separation between what the object is and what its marketed as - sometimes this gulf is small,sometimes large
I'll pick a couple of posts apart to try to explain once more
nealglover - MemberHow do you know what something is before you have bought it?
TJ » read the label?
So..... read the Marketing information on the Packaging then ?
No - the legally required mandatory information - ingredients and weight and so on. the objective info. I ignore everything but this
TJ » Look at it?And again, the way a product looks and feels is erm....... Marketing
No - wrong - what I am looking at is the object. Ie will it meet my needs
TJ » research beforehand?Ah, Internet Marketing or Maybe another media, but either way...... Marketing
No - looking for objective information on what it is
Well done, you've proved yourself wrong
Well done - yo have proved me right - you do not understand the difference nor do yo understand what I do.
The Flying Ox - Member"the IOID was an insurance replacement - to replace my commuter. its qualities matched what I wanted for that purpose"
Did the insurance company just send you an IOID, or did you choose it? Were there no other bikes on the planet with the same qualities, and if not, how did you know? If there were, why an IOID over the others?
I was offered an insurance replacement from wheelie with a value up to £1000. I had a list of criteria in my head I wanted. there was a limited list of bikes I could get - the IOID met more of the criteria I wanted thus I chose it.
Arrogant, condescending, supercilious, etc.
Words fail me.
Don't be so hard on yourself CFH...
😆
Answer the question, Teej. Which washing up liquid?
Junkyard - lots and lots of phrases where I qualify the absolute. even in your quote most people would not take "bugger all" as absolute zero would they?
Sammo: Hey! How much sex have you had with Cameron Diaz?
Junkyard: Bugger all!
Sammo: You lucky dawg!
@ CFH 😀
I don't know why this subject seems to cause so much agitation; TJ thinks what he thinks, and any amount of text related attempts to make him roll over and completely change his view are doomed to failure.
Give it up chaps!
Its touching how many of you have such faith in this magic marketing and how blind you are to how little influence it has in many folks lives.
All the examples you keep throwing at me are either so hypothetical as to be ridiculous - 3 lots of washing up liquid all identical FFS or show a total lack of understanding about how I make my decisions.
I understand you might make your decisions on the basis of the marketing - I do not because teh marketing is irrelevant to me
I buy on the basis of need the product that most closely meets my objective criteria in its intrinsic properties. I buy most of my possessions secondhand
CaptainFlashheart - MemberJust ignore him, chaps. This pathetic clinging to a point that is entirely untenable is just TJ trolling. It must be. The alternative is just too horrid a thought.
Not just trolling. yes it is horrible to have to come to terms with the possiblility teh emperer is anked isn't it -thats why you all continue to insist I do something I know i do not.
I am not surprised yo cannot accept this. You need to ponder on the parable of the emperors new clothes. Open your minds. accept other world views exist that you cannot understand.
an no - I will not enter into further futile debate on this.
