Money doesn't buy you happiness

Posted by: desperatebicycle

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My partner is a psychiatrist - all her clients are loaded beyond what we (well, I) can imagine. And they are ****ed up. Especially the ones from rich families who didn't have to work for it. So it's true. It can't buy you happiness but it can buy you appointments with a top psychiatric hospital and all the drugs you need to live in oblivion. Joy

 I’m sure that’s true. But, genuine question, are messed up poor people just unable to afford the help?

Poor people can't buy oblivion in the same way, if that's what you're on about.

Once you have a certain amount of money, more money doesn’t buy you happiness. How much money someone regards as enough will vary person to person. Growing up I wanted enough to but a house, car and provide for my family and our future (pension). We have X amount each month and live month to month. More money would have just meant more stuff (holidays, newer car, fancier stuff) but may of provided less worry /stress when an unexpected bill landed. Now as I am older how much I need is falling (kids older, mortgage ending etc) and I don’t really want for more money TBH and have adapted to what I have and planning to have less in the future as I wind down. More money may bring me more experiences such as travel but I would not want a bigger house or a Ferrari in the drive. I look at my sister in London who has the big house ( £3mill+) drives a big Volvo, kids went to private school, holidays abroad etc. is she any happier? I don’t think so, seems to have a lot of similar worries to me. It’s all relative.

Posted by: Daffy

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This is a whole value:price thing though, isn’t it.  You have the freedom to ignore the price of something and simply to enjoy its value.  Imagine if your whole world, every choice you made had to first calculated to see what the cost was.  

The tough but is at the bottom where the prices you are looking at are life’s essentials. That’s really tough and stressful.

But lots of people are looking at the price of non essentials and then you hit this elastic world of whats normal. 

I have a well off cousin. Great guy. Works hard and spends his money on his wife kids and parents. He told me this story that he knows is mental

He was trying to work out where the money was going. So he started looking at some bills. Being in IT guy telly is streamed and non of them were worrying about what they spent. Turns out in a month they spent £250 on renting and buying films and tv series

My partner is a psychiatrist - all her clients are loaded beyond what we (well, I) can imagine. And they are *ed up. Especially the ones from rich families who didn't have to work for it. So it's true. It can't buy you happiness but it can buy you appointments with a top psychiatric hospital and all the drugs you need to live in oblivion. Joy

That's a tiny sub set of the financially loaded though - the happy ones don't have visits to psychiatrists. And at the other end of the financial pyramid I suspect there are multiple time more *ed up people doing the deed with much cheaper drugs without professional help or comfy rooms. They might just not be so visible (or rather we have collectively learnt to be blind to them); it's just the posh ones we like to tut at, throwing away a seemingly easy life. 

I do (or did) spend a lot of time with the exceptionally rich at work and whilst I'm not sure I buy the too much money makes you unhappy line, I would say that loads of money buys you time and entitlement. And some people seem to be predisposed to use those assets to be way too self involved and introspective - and sometimes don't like what they see. The busy poor (as opposed to the not working poor) are too busy getting through the grind of life to navel gaze. 

Money doesn't buy happiness, but it does buy options! 

Plus this

Someone once said that sex was like oxygen, it's only important when you're not getting enough. Applied equally as well to money.

MUCH more applicable to money IMO.

Having had times of being flush and times of being much less so, I'd say the main benefit of having money is not having to worry about money.

There are also things that can cost nothing that can make one happy.

 

Spring flowers in the park. Sunset walk on a beach etc

If you are lucky enough to like those sorts of things and have access to them.

When you're stressed and miserable, these things tend not to have an effect.

Posted by: molgrips

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Spring flowers in the park. Sunset walk on a beach etc

I know what you're getting at, but spring flowers and sunsets are no use to people who are making the choice between feeding their families, paying the rent and/or heating the house.

Money can't buy happiness, no, but the lack of it can absolute buy misery.

Could we start again with a clear definition of happiness? 

Posted by: shrinktofit

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Could we start again with a clear definition of happiness? 

and a definition of rich or the sums of money involved in the equation.

Much the same as growing up in Arran,Skye maybe Ullapool watching amazing sunrise/sunset and the peacefulness yet you have no chance of ever buying a house to live there due to all the rich folk with so much cash paying over the odds

Not much happiness if you can't afford to live where you were brought up

Posted by: dudeofdoom

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However I think to earn lots of money means you have to work very hard which equals less options / flexibility and more stress

I think that’s the biggest lie ever perpetuated by the rich who don’t want you to realise it’s luck or who you know. 🙂

I'm so glad someone called that out as nonsense

Yeah money doesn't buy happiness... But 'enough' saves a lot of stress.

I don't have to worry about my rent and/or service charges going up, and if my washing machine brakes down.. It's just an annoyance rather than a financial crisis.

My definition of "rich" is being in good health. Thereafter never needing think about what size the supermarket bill is or paying the other bills.

After decades where it was paycheck to paycheck and large items needed loans/credit cards I am happy that I know there is enough coming in to cover outgoings plus a decent reserve in savings/investments.

But TBH I can't say I am much happier. I still do much the same things I always did. A few more big holidays and running two cars rather than one for the household.

But I was never properly poor. I would suggest anyone who is poor enough to need to choose between heating or eating would be very happy indeed with another £10k or whatever per year.  

However I think to earn lots of money means you have to work very hard which equals less options / flexibility and more stress

I think that’s the biggest lie ever perpetuated by the rich who don’t want you to realise it’s luck or who you know.

This is certainly true some of the time, but my experience of the corporate world is that a lot of higher paid roles do demand more hours, higher output and come with significantly higher pressure.

Certain sectors with well-paid specialist roles such as IT may be insulated from this to some extent though.

Posted by: chakaping

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However I think to earn lots of money means you have to work very hard which equals less options / flexibility and more stress

I think that’s the biggest lie ever perpetuated by the rich who don’t want you to realise it’s luck or who you know.

This is certainly true some of the time, but my experience of the corporate world is that a lot of higher paid roles do demand more hours, higher output and come with significantly higher pressure.

Certain sectors with well-paid specialist roles such as IT may be insulated from this to some extent though.

If you are at the top of the game, maybe.. We've had a few people at my last place who are basically 'permanent' contractors on crazy day rates as they have leverage.. They know damn well it will cost the company a shit load more to bring new people in to not only do the job as well but the time it would take for anyone to get up to speed with all the intricate things about the job.

It doesn't really work for most though unless you have a niche /angle.

That's exactly the kind of exception I was talking about mattyfez.

Got any of those roles going at the mo?

Money doesn't buy happiness but it does give you choice, make good choices and you can be happier

I do remember a documentary a few years ago about the really young lottery winner, Think she was 16/17 when she won. She was sweet but a bit daft and she said the most brilliant thing (without realising how brilliant it was)

They say money can't buy you happiness but I disagree, it can buy you a jet ski. Have you ever seen a miserable person driving a jet ski?

Not sure if its age or cost of living rises in excess of what was once deemed normal, but I could do with some more money. 🙂

We have a mad family income (mostly earnt from my wife now), and equally mad outgoings due to one private school and a drawn out court case trying to get other son into the right setting for him.  I/we are normally very good with money, more recently I am really really good trying to clear down debt etc, pay off CC's and loans.  Doing really well after two years at it.

I dont need any new bikes, they are are all really good.  What has made a difference recently is stepping off the newish car conveyor belt.  I have started doing all my own work on my 12 year old VW van.  Van is now mechanically mint, loan I have always had is now gone so its payback time.  Its really working.  I am starting to have cash spare each month, and nothing on CC's.  Feels really good after years of the grind

it can buy you a jet ski. Have you ever seen a miserable person driving a jet ski?

It can also buy you a sniper rifle and a bloody good lawyer to get you off the murder* charge for offing the smiling jet ski rider. 

*though to be fair, if you've just written that on an internet forum, they'll have to be a bloody bloody good lawyer.

Posted by: chakaping

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That's exactly the kind of exception I was talking about mattyfez.

Got any of those roles going at the mo?

Sorry, I'm semi-retired, I am OUT of the rat race!

Do you need someone to mow your lawn? I'm your man 😉 

They say money can't buy you happiness but I disagree, it can buy you a jet ski. Have you ever seen a miserable person driving a jet ski?

Yep that donut who thought he’d touch a container ship for a laugh , he wasn’t smiling when it went south..

He might even be on here 🙂

My partner is a psychiatrist -

So presumably doesn't see rich happy people and the poor unhappy ones are much less likely to seek medical care or get as far as seeing a psych.

Posted by: dudeofdoom

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They say money can't buy you happiness but I disagree, it can buy you a jet ski. Have you ever seen a miserable person driving a jet ski?

Yep that donut who thought he’d touch a container ship for a laugh , he wasn’t smiling when it went south..

What an absolute tool... I don't even know where to start with all the things they did wrong... they really deserved to drown acting like that THB.

As far as I’m concerned, money may not buy you happiness, but it can buy you a more comfortable form of misery. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Spring flowers in the park.  Sunset walk on a beach etc

 

 

Why does it have to be such wholesome stuff TJ? What about coke and hookers? 

He lives in Leith - theres already coke in the park and hookers on the beach shore 24/7 🙂

Posted by: RNP

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We have enough money to afford a dog and to feed him well / cover vets bills etc.

 

On a £ per happiness ratio it is the best 'thing' we (or certainly me) have ever done.

When our angelic black Labrador got cancer😭, having got some £££ in the bank (c/o bailing out of a company that had been wrecked in a reverse takeover, taking an early pension in the process) to pay for whatever treatment was the 'right' treatment and whadoing rhe very best for the fella, without having to worry about the cost, was a huge blessing. 

Being in a position where the vet bill for the right treatment is going to be too much (a 5 figure sum by the end) to be able to pay, and having  have them put down instead, must be an utterly miserable situation for anyone to find themselves in.

Having a dog and getting out with him every day  is what keeps me sane !

When it comes to pets though it's nice to be able to make a decision based on the quality of future life rather than the vet bill.

My ex Mrs is having her cat put to sleep tomorrow as he's 18 years old and he's not going to get better with the best will in the world.
Trying to delay the inevitable would just be cruel really.

RIP Dexter the cat.

Posted by: shrinktofit

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Could we start again with a clear definition of happiness? 

for me its contentment plus joy.

you need to be in a position where you are content with your life.   that needs enough money to live on.  then youneed those moments of joy on top of that.

some rich folk are not content.  many folk seem to find those moments of joy elusive

Being in a position where the vet bill for the right treatment is going to be too much (a 5 figure sum by the end) to be able to pay, and having  have them put down instead, must be an utterly miserable situation for anyone to find themselves in.

Must admit that’s what I had to do to Toby, but loadsa shit happened all year before that. (Bit of a rant below)  

I was unexpectedly diagnosed with SPMS in February 2018,

Best mate died of throat cancer April 2018 and left his wife/my other best mate with a 8yr son to bring up.

My dad was suddenly diagnosed with myeodysplasia (form of blood cancer) in June 2018 after he was extremely tired on our holiday up at aviemore in may 2018 to celebrate his retirement, he died in October 2018 as hospital forgot to check ketone levels so developed internal ulcers, leaving my mum, brother and myself.

And finally had to get my dog Toby put down in late October 2018 due to tumour behind his eye, I had complained to local vets all year as on occasion he was stumbling around, then was fine but local vets said it was just his age (11yrs old but very fit, 10miles a day easily whilst I took bike), eventually took him to Edinburgh vet college for consultation/mri (£700) where they found a tumour, that if found earlier could’ve easily been operated on if I had ignored my local vets advice and took him there to begin with, 

I dunno how I woulda found the money for an operation but I would’ve somehow…….given the rage I had at the time I would’ve probably kicked it out of the local vet 

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Posted by: franksinatra

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Money doesn't buy happiness but it does give you choice, make good choices and you can be happier

I do remember a documentary a few years ago about the really young lottery winner, Think she was 16/17 when she won. She was sweet but a bit daft and she said the most brilliant thing (without realising how brilliant it was)

They say money can't buy you happiness but I disagree, it can buy you a jet ski. Have you ever seen a miserable person driving a jet ski?

A poncho is considerably cheaper.

High tax, low-level relative inequality and lots of saunas in an economy seems to produce a very happy Finland. Spirit Level innit.

You need money to survive. I think happiness comes mainly from  your relationships with a partner family and friends and also from within yourself 

I think happiness comes mainly from your relationships with a partner family and friends and also from within yourself

I'm not sure I buy that, and in the theme of my OP first post, I think that's from a position of privilege. Not necessarily a 'privilege' if wealth, but of comfort. Plenty of good relationships (friendships, partners, families) have broken down when put under pressure. The pressure of tragedy or financial deprivation. Financial security can provide the luxury of fostering good relationships, not pushed by circumstances. 

Not saying you can maintain good relationships under financial stress, just it's easier to do it in 'comfort'. 

https://www.bitesizelearning.co.uk/resources/autonomy-mastery-purpose-motivation-pink

Having money gives you choices, but in the words of Devo "freedom from choice" is what we want.

Am I any happier having money for multiple bikes* now, than when I was when just one rigid MTB covered all my bases as a pay cheque to pay cheque part time single dad?

* not worth much due to changing standards

@convert I don't think we are in disagreement. I believe that I spent a great deal of my life striving for a better society and a better more "comfortable " future for my family and myself. A sequence of events caused me to re evaluate what I was doing including reducing my working hours ( I work in social care i am not well paid in uk terms but I am compared to most people worldwide) my retirement will be more difficult than it could have been but the health benefits, and the reward of time spent with family and friends and in the outdoors has been enormous. 

TBH there’s  a serbian proverb but tbh I’ve heard it anglicised in the past and it was told to me by DoD Mummy….

When poverty knocks at the door, love flies out the window

The motivator missing in that venn diagram is "need".  I stopped work at 42 because I didn't need to work. The other three in the diagram didn't come into it.  I've been poor, as in owning a bicycle which got me from one temporary job to the next - being on a survival income isn't comfortable, however I wasn't unhappy. Now there's enough to live comfortably without excess, yeah, I'm happy. I reckon need is the driver for most people if they are honest and a lottery win would end their careers. 

I've had a troubled relationship with money most of my life. A huge amount of debt in my 20's and early 30's. Finally into my 40's and in a job that pays my worth, and the debt cleared, I still have anxiety and stress when spending money. Even when I can afford nice things, I fell quite bad afterwards and leads to more anxiety and stress.

But can confirm, the truly happy things in life, don't cost a penny.

Money buys MDMA which makes folk very happy

When I was kid we were skint, but my Grandad was not. We'd go stay with him for weeks at a time in the holidays and it was amazing getting new clothes, going out for meals, living a Swallows and Amazons childhood (he lived in the wilds of North Wales but also near the sea). He didn't spend loads but it was clear he didn't worry for money.

My Dad got a much better paid job when I was about 12 and it turned my folks life around. We had food in the fridge, went on UK family holidays and I clearly remember getting the Saisho dual cassette and radio player I wanted for Christmas!

Me and Mr Kip are doing OK, we have good jobs and savings but I still constantly worry about money as it's rubbish not having it. We don't have to worry if things break as we can afford to replace them, but don't tend to spend on the big things that really need doing because that would deplete our savings.

Would more money make me happier, yes because we could fix the house up properly. Would even more? Yes because then we could move to a nicer house in a nicer spot. Beyond that, I don't need much and can find happiness in the smallest things, including sitting on the back of the van with the tailgate up watching the sunset over the nearest beach.

My previous job I worked for a Times rich list HNW family, wealth built up over generations, there’d be no way I’d ever want to be a part of that family and have their money. None of them appeared to be happy at all and I was so glad to leave that place.

My current employers (small family business) are multimillionaires, they are the complete opposite.. a loving, caring family, I think of them more like friends than my bosses. They have worked hard, and continue to do so, I’ve a lot of respect for them, and know that if they lost everything they’d still be lovely, happy people.

Me? Skint. Would love enough to buy my own place, that’d make me happy.

We both worked hard earlier in our careers to get rid of the stress of money; pay off mortgages, get rid of all debt, put aside enough for our daughters future etc. Once that was done we both took a huge hit financially to go part time as we didn’t want the next big house, the new luxury car, the insanely expensive holiday. Once you are past that initial stress of money, which isn’t easy, and you prefer simple things in life especially the outdoors, I don’t think money makes any difference. But below that point, life can be challenging at best. I realise we are very very lucky and we do remember harder, less happy times. Slightly separately, it’s not just the money that determines happiness, so many things have an impact for each of us, and not necessarily the same things.