[Closed] Mistresses or lovers. Can it work?

some harsh stuff here from some people who have never been in the OP's situation. I suspect you know OP [ and have tried] to confront this with your wife. You know the ideal situation is to have a fullfiflled sex life with your wife. If you cannot achieve this with her only you can decide whether all the things you value [ and I believe that you do as life is complicated] are more or less important than having next to no sex for the rest of your life. Unfortunately the desire to have sex is not something we can fully control- would all those slating the OP give up sex for love??. I had a similair situation [ not caught and not known and divorced now anyway] and I dont know what I would have done in the long run...and I did 20 years of fidelity FWIW and had never been unfaithful to anyone I was ever seeing. We all know it is wrong but unfortunately sex is fun and if you want to have sex and someone else does not what do you do?
For those criticising the OP he probably had realistic expectations of sex more than 4 times per year [hardly unrealistic] and he has clearly raised it with his partner who does not view it as an issue [cos she is not bothered] yet it clearly is for the OP. She could be accused of being as selfish, unloving etc as some of you wish to slate the OP for. Not saying it is right but a [relatively]sexless marriage will make people behave in ways they did not think they ever would and yes this is sad wrong whatever but it is not one sided though we could debate who is most wrong.
I doubt it will end well IMHO relationship counselling with your wife and then you can see if you can address the issue together then make you bed based on this and lie in it with all the consequences this will entail
PS my wife did not have sex with me because she did not love me and did not leave due to the kids is your wife possibly feeling the same?
Good Luck but talk to her nothing else will resolve this situation.

men can be tossers sometimes, you know that?

but yes that is stupid advice to confront her and blame her. Would you stay with your partner for the rest of your life with no sex? How many people would marry if the vows included not having sex? Sex is an intimate act of love between two people [imho]if you are not having sex you are just housemates IMHO

As junkyard alludes to IMO you need to establish why your wife does not want sex. My bet is that is at least in part due to you and her feelings towards you. In other words the lack of desire for sex from your wife is a symptom not the disease

Myself - I am a very black and white sort of person and its either put up or get out. Cheating is not the answer.

I read a book on polyamory a while back, as a friend was in an open relationship, and I wanted to know more about that idea that you can love many people. The book was called "The Ethical Slut" IIRC. One of the core ideas behind it was that multiple partnerships are ethical, and can be loving and fulfilling, as long as they are consensual with everyone involved. The OPs is not consensual as your wife doesn't know about this other relationship.

I don't know how I feel about lovers and wives and multiple relationships, but I do know that I would advise taking your time and really coming to some firm resolution, and trying to talk that through as calmly as possible with everyone involved: wife and lover.

People want to have sex with people 'cuase they feel loved respected and wanted by the other person.

Look at what your doing, would you want to have sex with some-one like you? If you've seeing some-one else, how much time do you spend with your family, with your children? it's a two way thing isn't it?

Emsz, I disagree with "People want to have sex with people 'cause they feel loved respected and wanted by the other person." Although it sounds logical (well, it is logical) people on the whole are not.

Don't get me wrong, I dig your earlier point about projecting the breakdown onto her as cliche and frown worthy. But the motives for people being intimate are incredibly broad, your reasoning is the healthy, balanced motive. People are pretty strange on the whole once you dig deeper and I think they can have a range of motives fuelled by ego, insecurity, boredom, curiosity, compulsion, fear, lust etc.

To put it bluntly, there is a difference between f*cking and making love.

I think OP adding that his fling is temporary in an agreed sense adds to this. To be simplistic; he is not being validated in his longterm relationship and is seeking this elsewhere. The fact that the validation comes in a temporary state and flies in the face of social contracts he has established with his family and friends shows how much he feels this is important. Possibly to 'protect' Mrs OP he has not figured out how to broach the subject; procrastination.

The core issue here is communication, not only is verbal communication in decline but so is physical, which in turn reduces verbal. This is mutual, Mrs OP is bound to be unhappy too. If you have any respect for her and your kids (they will not see this situation from your light-hearted perspective, their male role model has broken a rule) then keep things separate.

This isn't just the end of your marriage, it's the beginning of a whole lot more.

This post is based on the assumption that you would give up your lover were you again able to have an intimate physical relationship with your wife. I'm also assuming the "will not take it further" line in your first post means your wife will not consider counselling with Relate.

Rather than seeing either of the nuclear options (giving in to a married life with no physical intimacy or having a long-term affair) as being the only options, I would suggest trying (again, repeatedly) to get your wife to visit a Relate counsellor with you. Letting her know that you are asking her to go with you because of how much of an issue you find the lack of physical intimacy in your relationship. This conversation may have to be held a number of times. It may be that telling her that in your darker moments you have thought of having an affair could help her grasp how much sex (which may initially be what she views as the entirety of the problem) matters to you.

The reason I would shy away from either a long-term affair or a marriage without a physical connection is that in my second hand experience both destroy relationships - not just between husband and wife but also between parents and children.

Good luck with whatever you do.

You need to decide whether your marriage is worth saving and, if it is, then, as suggested, Relate for counselling.

Relationships obviously change when children come along and remember that as individuals one is constantly evolving. Not necessarily in the same direction. It's quite normal for marriages to 'run their course', ime.

Of course having a lover is making you feel good and wanted but that really isn't a solution is it? What you are doing is deceitful. You owe it to yourself and your family to deal with this situation immediately before it goes beyond repair.

Man up and tell the wife you dont love her.
you obviously dont, or you wouldnt be away **** someone else.
you only live once, life is too short to spend with a person you dont love IMO.

+1

I think you know how it'll end up, i split up from my sons mom 4 years ago when he was 4, my son is happy he see's me regularly.

Sex and love are VERY important in a relationship, my guess is your wife doesn't love you either.

The OP clearly doesn't give a sx@t about his kids!

It's sad how selfish people are!

OH FFS spongebrain even for you that is a a stupid thing to say.
end of a bell you are

If all parties are consenting then who are we to judge?

Relationships are as varied as the people in them. What is appropriate for one couple isn't necessarily the rule for everyone else.

I do agree that the kids are the most important issue though.

Jesus Christ OP what the **** is wrong with you. Risking the happiness and stability of your children because you aren't getting enough pussy wtf

RJ. : it isn't just about that as some more recent posters have spotted. The kids are my first priority.

I just wondered if anybody had managed to find a way of living which sorted this without facing a life of lack of recognition of their own needs. Some thought needed. Trouble is how you accept the status quo when your eyes have been opened to how things could have been. To really feel wanted.

But the blame all lies with me.

Anyway I've said enough. Thanks to all for their views

desperategit - Member

RJ. : it isn't just about that as some more recent posters have spotted. The kids are my first priority

Bullshit. If it was you wouldn't even be thinking of this. You first priority is you and your needs and feelings.

IMO the first thing you need to do is stop kidding yourself. Then decide - wife or lover or neither - my bet is you end up with neither. Then decide just how much you are going to hurt and damage your kids for your own selfish reasons.

Quite honestly you come over to me as self obsessed, selfish and unfeeling. You are looking to us to validate your selfishness and I won't.

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

says the man with no children 🙄
He wants to have happy healthy and fullfilled children and a sex life WhyTF is that so bad? It is what most people expect from marriage andlife in general - he said he could accpet a reduction but no tto this degree.
What about his wife not having sex is she doing the same [ not saying it is her fault] thinking of her desire to have limited sex rather than the childrens happiness as she has endangered her marriage etc.
I can understand why people want to go puritanical here [ i dont think the OP is putting himself forward as paragon here] but to accuse him of not loving his kids because he wants a sex life is adding 1 + 1 and making 3.
He does seem to be trying to see how this can be resolved without impact on the kids.
Can we als note that children from divorced parents can do ok you know.
PS I like the irony of a poster named after a porn star p[ who works in the industry] lecturing someone about abstaining from pussy ...only on the internet

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

Aye, but he seems to want to have his cake and eat it.

OP, it's obvious that you're feeling guilty and you don't feel like you can carry on as you are. You must be honest with your wife, because if you aren't you are likely to cause more pain in the future. Counselling seems like a good idea.

Quite honestly you come over to me as self obsessed, selfish and unfeeling. You are looking to us to validate your selfishness and I won't.

its not the wanting of the sex life - its the cheating and lying which is almost inevitable that it will break his marriage.

To take a lover to feel fulfilled yourself is not [i]treating the kids as first priority[/i] as he claimed. If he did he would not be a philander

I cannot stand dishonesty especially with added hypocrisy

Crossed posts.
a way out. Stop the affair immediately for good. Confess all to the wife and ask for forgivness. Ask for an opportunity to rebuild the marriage. If she won't then accept a divorce and do not contest a thing.

Start to behave like an adult and accept repsoisibility for your action

I think people are being a bit harsh here and TJ you are right... you are very black and white, some situations are not.

I've been here myself of late and know exactly where the OP is coming from. His self proclamimed sudonym of "Desperategit" is quite approipraite as he is desperate. Acting in desperation will make you do some strange things.
Its not just sex. Its closeness, intimacy, to feel wanted and loved. If you haven't got that then it not a healty relationship that will last.

TO the OP I was in the same boat. I had the same thoughts, I could have it on the side and the family will stay together. Everyone will be happy. But you are kidding yourself. I never went down this path but I had thought about it many times. I eventually realised that we either work it out or split. We went to a counsellor (We still are) and things are looking better. Its early days but its things are looking positive and its the best its been for 2 years. You both have to realise its an issue and both have to want to work at it or it'll be a lost case.

Good luck, just be honest with yourself and those around you and things will work themselves out. One way or the other.

The wife changed the dynamics of the relationships when she decided she wanted no sex life (I'm assuming this wasn't always the case). If you are now incompatible and want different things then maybe a split is for the best but you ned to talk and find out what you both want and need from the relationship.

To all the haters... If you met your SO when you both had a passion for cycling would you you never cycle again if she suddenly decided she didn't want to ride anymore? No riding with anyone else ever again or riding together.... Oh she will let you ride on the turbo trainer in the backroom behind closed doors if you clear your own mess up afterwards and pretend it never happened....

TJ - you are completely out of order there and those are cruel words.

Quite honestly, if there is nothing left in a relationship and you are staying for the sake of the kids, then I think you would both be better off going your separate ways. Neither of you should feel guilty doing this.

I was married for decades and, quite frankly, lived a charade for part of it. Consequently my (now adult) children have become rather confused as to what a 'normal' marriage is. 😕

From what you're saying the only person who has a problem with this arrangement at the moment is you. I would bet that your wife has an inkling of what's going on, and maybe even your kids.

You don't need to start making decisions until things come to a head. In fact that's the only time you'll have any bargaining power if you want people to make a commitment to a new way of living.

So, make sure you've got a credit card in your own name with a fair bit of credit left on it, just in case, and carry on till you have to stop.

My parents argued and fought so much when I was a child, I actually wanted them to split up. They didnt for the kids, I respect them for it, but doubt anyone, my brother and sister included was happier for them staying together. Home would have been a much nicer place had they split and we would probably have got more love and attention from each of them seperatly. People should stop looking at family units with rose tinted glasses.

If your unhappy, and your wifes unreasonable, move on.

Alternativly, if shes no interest in sex, then shes nothing to be jelous of eh! (yes I know, I know, its the intimatesy betrayal)

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

They would rather that Mum and Dad worked it out. I've watched it happen and I would never want to go through it. They will get over it but you are going to hit them for about 5 years of their life very hard when they are right at the part when they are really starting to work out what relationships are for themselves.

Relationships change, they don't stay the same. The 7 year itch isn't made up. Stick with it. Stop the 'bit on the side' now because as TJ says, the fact that you are having to hide something will be destroying what is left of your current relationship.

...and great post and responses from you.

(Edit: and from gravitysucks as well)

CG - in that case he should separate now. Stop lying and cheating.

If the marriage is dead than it is better for the kids to separate I am sure. I was not advocating staying for the sake of the kids.

I am angry with the hypocrisy of saying

The kids are my first priority

Of course it can work, and it's quite "normal" here in France.

It doesn't work for me, but I have a French friend who is happily married who has had the same mistress for years. They all know about each other and it works.

Or, at least it did, then it ended in tears.

SB

Where to start...

I've been there and done that, and thankfully come out the other side and older and slightly wiser man.

1). Stop with all the 'it's her fault because' rubbish. You've been the baddy, and until you face up to it and accept your responsibility you and any relationship you end up in isn't worth anything.

2). Stop with all the 'my kids are my priority' rubbish. You have chosen to take a course of action that will upset and damage your kids and your relationship with them; if they really were your priority, you wouldn't be shagging someone else.

3). Sit and imagine, just for a moment, the sound of your wife sobbing quietly at 3 am.

She's sobbing quietly because she doesn't want to wake you, she's sobbing because everything that she thought was ok suddenly isn't, the last 20 years have just been thrown away so you can have sex with someone else.

4). Imagine sitting in desperation at the top of the stairs listening to your children talking about not having a dad anymore because 'he's got a new girlfriend now'

5). Imagine getting a letter, written by your youngest son, that begs you to come home and includes a toy train because he thinks you will be happier if he shared his toys with you.

I had an affair, then left home to live with the woman, didn't work out, so I ended up living out of a suitcase, drunk for 3 months.

In the end I went back and asked if we could start again, and I got lucky.

You know what you are doing is wrong, and that feeling will eat away at you forever, gradually destroying your sense of self and sense of self worth.

Your call; make the right one.

Isn't that what they call a some sex relationship?

Good post there by crikey.

I think it is you that is the spongebrain Junkyard!

The OP has children! These should be his main focus and not what is on the end of his cock!

I think liberal attitudes like yours are all too common these days and this selfishness inevitably causes a great deal of misery to many innocent people!

If adults could act like adults and take some responsibility for their fmilies, instead of acting like self-centred hedonistic egomaniacs, then the world would be a better place.

That is an unrealistic notion of mine, because individuals believe their wants and needs are more important than those of the people around them. They will argue robustly to defend what THEY want, their rights etc etc and stuff everyone else.

If you had witnessed close hand, the damage an extramarital affair could have on a relationship, you would wind your misguided little neck in!

Such an affair occurred in my immediate family this year which culminated in my brother in-law hanging himself.

So go carefully when preaching your liberal thinking to others Junkyard.

Thinking about it, your name suggests the place where you belong!

Crikey indeed!

TJ step away fromt he thread you have made yourpoint bluntly and unequivocally rehashing it wont help anyone.

They would rather that Mum and Dad worked it out.

I'm shagging some-one else, and it's your fault!!

I'm sorry if what I said was misinterpreted emsz; I'm in no way apologizing for the OP's behaviour. I not saying it's all his wife's fault either.

But it is a fact that she has not, for whatever reason, fulfilled his natural needs and expectations, nor understood how this has hurt him, what it has driven him to, nor sought to discuss and work through it. He has done wrong, but so has she. So it is not productive to blame either. Option 3 is to communicate and see if it can be solved, either way, with the minimum damage.

Mleh. I've managed to spoil my own day now.

I justified it in all kinds of ways, but ultimately it was my mistake and my problem to fix. It was about 8 years ago now, but the pain and heartache I caused changed me forever.

Not to mention the pain and heartache I caused the other woman involved...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he thought no-one would ever find out; by that yardstick I was not the man I thought I was.

Guys - there's some unpleasant words being written, no need for that.

Edit: Spongebob - this is the 21st Century and thank goodness people have a choice as whether they wish to remain married. Children are not stupid - it is not right for them to see adults staying together if it makes them unhappy. The OP is not just referring to sex in his original post.

Thanks C_G you stopped me posting a rambling shitty reply there

They would rather that Mum and Dad worked it out.

Everyone would but, unfortunately,this does not mean it will happen in the real world.

You are slightly wrong there I feel. Whether or not trying is successful may be in doubt, however whether or not they actually try is completely within their control. This is the real world, there is no second shot at it. The OP is doing an awesome job at looking at this while he still has a choice with there being no perfect 'solution' here, only a decision on which way to go next.

edit: and for c_g, I agree that either direction may be the right one but it should be a decision

To clarify obviously it is in there control if they try but this does not guarantee this trying will be succesful. Which was what i said /meant. Sorry if it was unclear.

Very wise posts from crikey, I don't think any more needs to be said,

OP, read crikey's posts. The answers are all there.

Junkyard - Member
says the [b]unmarried[/b] man with no children

FTFY

Mate, although cheating is not a great idea, it can be explained. Most men need sex - simple, and if they are not getting it from their partner then they are going to eventually have to get it from somewhere else.

If women think that their men will stay loyal if they hold back sex then they are living in dreamland. Sooner or later the man will stray and despite it being a sad reason for a relationship to end, it is also inevitable, and by inevitable, I mean TRULY UNAVOIDABLE. The better his character and discipline, the longer he will last. But every man will break eventually.

The reason why men cheat when they are sexually frustrated rather than end their relationship is because:

(a) they still love their wives/girlfriends – despite how much a girl says “you can’t love someone you cheat on,” it isn’t true. You can love your wife/girlfriend, but if you don’t get to polish your nob for weeks, the temptations can be irresistible.

(b) we feel guilty for breaking up over sex – The answer to this is simple, don’t. Feeling guilty over this is like being ashamed about being a man.

Mate - hope the above makes you feel a little better. You've cheated but you need to understand the reasons why it's not all your fault.

The first step is to talk to your wife - it's more complicated of course because there are kids involved, but if she's not even prepared to talk about the issues then that shows a basic lack of respect. If she won't talk about it then there's no way of finding a solution or moving forward. In this case you'll either have to accept that things are not going to improve and live with it, or move on and try to minimise the impact for your kids.

Good luck.

Another changed user ID here. IMHO those condemning the OP out of hand have absolutely no idea of how it feels to be in a situation like that. Personally 4 times a year would be a real glut - I have 2 small kids and have had sex once since the first was born. Have contemplated the idea of an affair - I'm honest enough to admit the only reason I haven't is lack of opportunity (I do wonder how people with kids actual manage to fit an affair into their lives).