[Closed] Mistresses or lovers. Can it work?

no, but i would imagine your wife will find out sooner or later, then kick you out.
you can't have your cake and eat it forever. 😉

haha. I love the shit people post on here. There should be a television program or a book called 'The sad middlegits of middle road on Singletrackworld"

Amazing. Really first class. I follow Singletrack more religiously than any other soap opera.

Anyway...lets get to the advice. Confront her! Tell her you wanna **** more.

You are a love rat and should be ashamed of yourself!!!

Any pics 😉

Seriously, whilst its not something I'd do, I have known of this sort of thing carrying on without issue. Having said that, I have also knows a couple of situations where things have come to light and families have fallen apart. Everyone can have an opinion but only you know your circumstances truly.

Undoubtedly if it comes on top your kids will be devastated, and it is them who should be considered above all else.

I (sadly) think the answer is to review your marriage. It'll only get worse I think and you have to consider the effect on your family if they find out.

I've seen a lot of couples go through what you're describing. The conclusion is all too common. You need to decide which is more important because they're not compatible IMO.

Just start jacking off in bed and the shower (when she is around), like Kevin Spacey in American Beauty. She'll get the message soon.

Oh the **** Dear this is going to end in tears. My ex wife decided on our honeymoon that she 'didn't really like sex all that much after all'. Fortunately she was Irish and prone to being drunk so I got sex then. Unfortunately she was Irish and prone to alcoholism so I divorced her after 20 years and kept the kids. Happy days, now I have 6 bikes and no woman. Would swap the £40 BMX for a fit bird though if anyone has one spare?

OP Are you a 5 bikes "I'll have my cake and eat it" sort of chap?

Intimacy is very important, but trust more so. Come clean, snap it off and shack up with your new partner. If your wife finds out and tolerates; she is a doormat. For her and your sake untangle it.

Sounds like you've found the right person for now; is this shiny shiny syndrome with t*ts or proper love? When the sparkle has worn off is she still so great? I'm talking snotty, puking, yada yada yada....and still the same in your eyes, or is she an alternative relief to normality?

If it's good, pursue it; you could be hit by a bus tomorrow. But give the people involved some respect. Maybe she's not into you either (based on what you say about intimacy) and you'll be releasing her from the role of wife/mother she has now solidified in?

Good luck, you're going to need it!

just MTFU make a decision and live with the consequences and accept responsibility for your actions rather than acting like some week willed tool.
just listen to yourself, if the lack of sex is all you have to worry about in this life you should count your blessings you great hairy nobend. 🙄

very jolly troll, well done

It will all end in tears.

Oh, and great thread BTW.

its cause you are a crap shag.

Just start jacking off in bed and the shower

I think the Reynolds girls had discovered that that was the lesser of two evils

Just start jacking off in bed and the shower (when she is around), like Kevin Spacey in American Beauty. She'll get the message soon.

Haha. Bravo. Great advice.

How would you feel if your wife was seeing another guy?

Was in a similar situation but seperated for other reasons. Not an easy decision but one that only you can make. Whatever you decide there is going to be a lot of heartache so be prepared!! However, life's too short to be stuck in a miserable relationship.

man up and tell the wife you dont love her.
you obviously dont, or you wouldnt be away ****ing someone else.
you only live once, life is too short to spend with a person you dont love IMO.

[i]I like and respect my wife but she has never ever been keen on hugs intimacy and sex. And less so now. [/i]

So why did you marry her, let alone hang around with her for too long? apart from the respect/like thing. Cos I respect/like a lot of people. It's a genuine question actually.

do you have the face of hell?

Or reduce your own sex drive?

Mistresses or lovers. Can it work?

no. IMVHO

TandemJeremy - Member

It will all end in tears.

plus 1

BTW. I really respect the OP coming out with his probs. Takes some balls. I dunno if stw is exactly the right place 😀

Wifes phone number? I'll get her interested in it again for you

being Serious, either stop or get out, cheating on someone is one of the most awful things you can do to someone else.stop.it.now.

[img] [/img]

He's listening

If you could post a picture of them both nude it would help us to help you to make up you mind.

I started seeing my wife when married to ex. i realised within a month the direction I wanted to go in, and left. decisions of magnitude should never be made by your pecker, sex is usually always more frequent with a new partner.
if everything else in marriage is working just use hookers, much cheaper in the long run....

Ask Deidre

How would you feel if your wife was seeing another guy?

That's a pretty relevant question actually. I've found that a some of my friends simply couldn't believe that their partners were capable of cheating on them, despite the fact that they themselves were doing the dirty. There's nowt more uncomfortable (or karmaic in some cases?) than the realisation that the person you are married to but who 'doesn't like intimacy' actually [i]really, really[/i] does. Just not with you...

Good troll though.

No way I can prove this is not a troll - but it isn't. It's just something I can't talk about with any friends.

Thanks for some really useful comments.

With my wife sex was ok and more frequent at the start but never something which was important to her. And all parents will know how kids change things. She will not discuss this or see it as a valid problem. I do love her I guess and our lives and practical arrangements would be difficult to unpick.

I guess I was hoping that the feelings for my lover would settle down a lot and we could operate as "friends with benefits". This is something which she has suggested. She isn't looking for a live-in partner. We both accept this is likely to be temporary. I was wondering if anyone else here had done or seen this.

It does leave me feeling sometimes very happy, sometimes sad and scared and guilty.

Perhaps not the right thing to bring here and I don't mind any kind of response. Ta.

So what would your response be if the roles were reversed? How would it make you feel?

just askin', not judgin'...

I have no practical advise here, but check out the relationships bit on mumsnet (check out the loss of libido threads and the husband of 20 years cheating type threads for perspective).

Also look for the columns by Dan Savage who has some quite good advice on this kind of thing.

A personal perspective - based on no experience or knowledge (so probably with no value): You have three honourable options 1) Fix your marriage - do you think your wife would agree to councelling? 2) Leave 3) Get your wife to agree to your seeing someone else

desperategit - whilst sex is undoubtably important, as are the 'practical arrangements', there is a huge amount in between. trouble is no sex tends to sway your views on the other things and you become less committed, even though the fundamentals might still be there if you weren't clouded by the dearth of sex.

i am not making much sense here - been up with child number two since 5am, i guess i mean things like friendship, having a laugh and sharing life's experiences together, these to me are the fundamentals and if these are still good and its worth saving get yourselves off for help.

whilst your wife says she wont talk about the sex if she knew the possible outcome it might focus her mind.

if that sounds like bollocks i blame the lack of sleep.

Bullheart : Good question. I would have hoped that if She had said there was something in our marriage we needed to work on I would have done something about it. But I think I have become a dependable if annoying part of the scenery for her. I knew what I was getting into getting married. Comfortable rather than passionate.

So if she was seeing someone else? I'd feel sick and hurt but maybe wonder what I had done wrong.

Over-riding priority for me is the kids having a stable time with what are 90% of the time content parents.

I have avoided opportunities in the past but when your eyes are opened to what you have been missing it's a bit tough. I think, perhaps kidding myself, that this can help me stay rather than leave. Naive probably.

Thanks to everyone else

But I think I have become a dependable if annoying part of the scenery for her.

do you know this or are you trying to justify your current actions?

💡 it appears you have fragmentation in your life causing unrest, your first steps towads oneness and nirvana will be completing your triange, get a threesome going on, maybe your wife is a lesbian and fed up with penis's 💡

I've known many people in your situation.
Those that 'carry on' and keep it a secret, have all lost everything when the missus finds out. And in every case the 'mistress' doesn't want a sad snivelling regretfull bloke on their hands either who'll be paying maintenence for the rest of.

Those that have faced the issues have usually sorted it, marriage guidance is your first port of call.

Never ever ever use prostitutes, if that ever came out you will be ****ed. That's the sort of thing that soon everyone in your whole life finds out about...I can assure you, though not from personal experience. Just imagine your mum and kids knowing.

I'm not being critical... Honest!

Just a thought though. The idea of hurting my wife, regardless of the circumstances or situation, is something I find hard to contemplate. I love her so much that her welfare is above and beyond all other issues in my life.

If that isn't the case with you, do you think that maybe you should let her be with someone that will feel that way about her? Someone who will make her happily, physically and emotionally? Children are sharp and perceptive - if you're not in love with your wife anymore, they will know. There's no kidding the kids...

Good luck though.

I respect my wife (so I am lying to her and betraying her)
I love my wife (so I am happy to make her look a fool in front of our friends and family)
I love my kids (so I am lying to them too and teaching them to never trust thier future partners)
I love my girlfriend (so she has to cut down her life and future to suit whats handy for me and never mind the consequences to her self esteem)

I love.... well quite clearly the only person you utterly truly love is yourself.

Relationships fail even when people do thier best. It happens. It is often beyond a persons control.

Lying, betrayals and deceit are a free choice only you have made, entirely for your own benefit.

I don't know how to word this politely, but as I asked earlier how would you feel if your wife was seeing someone else? If she's suddenly off sex chances are she's gone elsewere too.

Not too bothered if OP is a troll or not. This is about respecting women and your family.

[i]I like and respect my wife[/i]

No you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing what you are.

"lack of sex"

The thing is, it's not sex for sex-sake. It's physical intimacy and people need it, more or less, as a component of a fulfilling relationship, perhaps more-so men and the OP. So he has taken a huge risk with his family relationships to satisfy that need. And now he is entangled because he "loves" the mistress. It was curious that he did not say he loved his wife, only liked and respected. IMO he does love his wife a great deal, maybe more than his mistress, but his perspective on love incorporates the need for physical intimacy.

It is a tough choice:

1. Selflessly love his wife and children but learn to live without satisfying the physical needs

2. Love his mistress to satisfy the physical need, and cause his family years of misery.

Everyone is different and I would not blame the OP either way actually.

There might be a third way, but it's the highest risk: Confront the wife and present the infidelity as evidence of the "broken" marriage and offer to put it right, if she plays her part. Put the ball in the wife's court. If she still wants him, and to keep the family together, then it's possible that the broken marriage can be saved and there could be some degree of the physical intimacy the OP needs. Of course it's hard on the mistress, and OP will have to sacrifice his feelings of "love" for her. Or it could all go wrong and everyone is damaged and the OP is left alone.

The very best of luck.

[i]Confront the wife and present the infidelity as evidence of the "broken" marriage and offer to put it right, if she plays her part. Put the ball in the wife's court. If she still wants him, and to keep the family together[/i]

In other words; I'm shagging some-one else, and it's your fault!!

men can be tossers sometimes, you know that?

Harsh but fair. And I feel upset that I am doing this. But it's my decision. Midnighthour you are probably right. trouble is relationships are not either perfect or over. In some countries and some times having a lover would have been almost expected

No it's not a sudden change. And She still does not want to talk. And the issue isn't about respecting women, or female solidarity. I have seen them behave the same way. It's about how we keep things going as we grow older. I am guessing a few posters have not achieved 20 yrs of fidelity yet. Lots of other threads here have given examples of things going wrong from either side.

But the answers here are pretty clear. It won't work as an outlet/safety valve. I need to find other ways of dealing with this. Ta.

my wifes ex workmate had an affair with her old boss (husbands business partner) for 20 years... the husband never knew, the woman said it enhanced her marriage as she got her 'bit on the side' but kept the marriage stable and the kids grew up fine.

this is a minority i guess, i dont condone it by any means.

just one thing, the kids come first!

men can be tossers sometimes

some harsh stuff here from some people who have never been in the OP's situation. I suspect you know OP [ and have tried] to confront this with your wife. You know the ideal situation is to have a fullfiflled sex life with your wife. If you cannot achieve this with her only you can decide whether all the things you value [ and I believe that you do as life is complicated] are more or less important than having next to no sex for the rest of your life. Unfortunately the desire to have sex is not something we can fully control- would all those slating the OP give up sex for love??. I had a similair situation [ not caught and not known and divorced now anyway] and I dont know what I would have done in the long run...and I did 20 years of fidelity FWIW and had never been unfaithful to anyone I was ever seeing. We all know it is wrong but unfortunately sex is fun and if you want to have sex and someone else does not what do you do?
For those criticising the OP he probably had realistic expectations of sex more than 4 times per year [hardly unrealistic] and he has clearly raised it with his partner who does not view it as an issue [cos she is not bothered] yet it clearly is for the OP. She could be accused of being as selfish, unloving etc as some of you wish to slate the OP for. Not saying it is right but a [relatively]sexless marriage will make people behave in ways they did not think they ever would and yes this is sad wrong whatever but it is not one sided though we could debate who is most wrong.
I doubt it will end well IMHO relationship counselling with your wife and then you can see if you can address the issue together then make you bed based on this and lie in it with all the consequences this will entail
PS my wife did not have sex with me because she did not love me and did not leave due to the kids is your wife possibly feeling the same?
Good Luck but talk to her nothing else will resolve this situation.

men can be tossers sometimes, you know that?

but yes that is stupid advice to confront her and blame her. Would you stay with your partner for the rest of your life with no sex? How many people would marry if the vows included not having sex? Sex is an intimate act of love between two people [imho]if you are not having sex you are just housemates IMHO

As junkyard alludes to IMO you need to establish why your wife does not want sex. My bet is that is at least in part due to you and her feelings towards you. In other words the lack of desire for sex from your wife is a symptom not the disease

Myself - I am a very black and white sort of person and its either put up or get out. Cheating is not the answer.

I read a book on polyamory a while back, as a friend was in an open relationship, and I wanted to know more about that idea that you can love many people. The book was called "The Ethical Slut" IIRC. One of the core ideas behind it was that multiple partnerships are ethical, and can be loving and fulfilling, as long as they are consensual with everyone involved. The OPs is not consensual as your wife doesn't know about this other relationship.

I don't know how I feel about lovers and wives and multiple relationships, but I do know that I would advise taking your time and really coming to some firm resolution, and trying to talk that through as calmly as possible with everyone involved: wife and lover.

People want to have sex with people 'cuase they feel loved respected and wanted by the other person.

Look at what your doing, would you want to have sex with some-one like you? If you've seeing some-one else, how much time do you spend with your family, with your children? it's a two way thing isn't it?

Emsz, I disagree with "People want to have sex with people 'cause they feel loved respected and wanted by the other person." Although it sounds logical (well, it is logical) people on the whole are not.

Don't get me wrong, I dig your earlier point about projecting the breakdown onto her as cliche and frown worthy. But the motives for people being intimate are incredibly broad, your reasoning is the healthy, balanced motive. People are pretty strange on the whole once you dig deeper and I think they can have a range of motives fuelled by ego, insecurity, boredom, curiosity, compulsion, fear, lust etc.

To put it bluntly, there is a difference between f*cking and making love.

I think OP adding that his fling is temporary in an agreed sense adds to this. To be simplistic; he is not being validated in his longterm relationship and is seeking this elsewhere. The fact that the validation comes in a temporary state and flies in the face of social contracts he has established with his family and friends shows how much he feels this is important. Possibly to 'protect' Mrs OP he has not figured out how to broach the subject; procrastination.

The core issue here is communication, not only is verbal communication in decline but so is physical, which in turn reduces verbal. This is mutual, Mrs OP is bound to be unhappy too. If you have any respect for her and your kids (they will not see this situation from your light-hearted perspective, their male role model has broken a rule) then keep things separate.

This isn't just the end of your marriage, it's the beginning of a whole lot more.

This post is based on the assumption that you would give up your lover were you again able to have an intimate physical relationship with your wife. I'm also assuming the "will not take it further" line in your first post means your wife will not consider counselling with Relate.

Rather than seeing either of the nuclear options (giving in to a married life with no physical intimacy or having a long-term affair) as being the only options, I would suggest trying (again, repeatedly) to get your wife to visit a Relate counsellor with you. Letting her know that you are asking her to go with you because of how much of an issue you find the lack of physical intimacy in your relationship. This conversation may have to be held a number of times. It may be that telling her that in your darker moments you have thought of having an affair could help her grasp how much sex (which may initially be what she views as the entirety of the problem) matters to you.

The reason I would shy away from either a long-term affair or a marriage without a physical connection is that in my second hand experience both destroy relationships - not just between husband and wife but also between parents and children.

Good luck with whatever you do.

You need to decide whether your marriage is worth saving and, if it is, then, as suggested, Relate for counselling.

Relationships obviously change when children come along and remember that as individuals one is constantly evolving. Not necessarily in the same direction. It's quite normal for marriages to 'run their course', ime.

Of course having a lover is making you feel good and wanted but that really isn't a solution is it? What you are doing is deceitful. You owe it to yourself and your family to deal with this situation immediately before it goes beyond repair.

Man up and tell the wife you dont love her.
you obviously dont, or you wouldnt be away **** someone else.
you only live once, life is too short to spend with a person you dont love IMO.

+1

I think you know how it'll end up, i split up from my sons mom 4 years ago when he was 4, my son is happy he see's me regularly.

Sex and love are VERY important in a relationship, my guess is your wife doesn't love you either.

The OP clearly doesn't give a sx@t about his kids!

It's sad how selfish people are!

OH FFS spongebrain even for you that is a a stupid thing to say.
end of a bell you are

If all parties are consenting then who are we to judge?

Relationships are as varied as the people in them. What is appropriate for one couple isn't necessarily the rule for everyone else.

I do agree that the kids are the most important issue though.

Jesus Christ OP what the **** is wrong with you. Risking the happiness and stability of your children because you aren't getting enough pussy wtf

RJ. : it isn't just about that as some more recent posters have spotted. The kids are my first priority.

I just wondered if anybody had managed to find a way of living which sorted this without facing a life of lack of recognition of their own needs. Some thought needed. Trouble is how you accept the status quo when your eyes have been opened to how things could have been. To really feel wanted.

But the blame all lies with me.

Anyway I've said enough. Thanks to all for their views

desperategit - Member

RJ. : it isn't just about that as some more recent posters have spotted. The kids are my first priority

Bullshit. If it was you wouldn't even be thinking of this. You first priority is you and your needs and feelings.

IMO the first thing you need to do is stop kidding yourself. Then decide - wife or lover or neither - my bet is you end up with neither. Then decide just how much you are going to hurt and damage your kids for your own selfish reasons.

Quite honestly you come over to me as self obsessed, selfish and unfeeling. You are looking to us to validate your selfishness and I won't.

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

says the man with no children 🙄
He wants to have happy healthy and fullfilled children and a sex life WhyTF is that so bad? It is what most people expect from marriage andlife in general - he said he could accpet a reduction but no tto this degree.
What about his wife not having sex is she doing the same [ not saying it is her fault] thinking of her desire to have limited sex rather than the childrens happiness as she has endangered her marriage etc.
I can understand why people want to go puritanical here [ i dont think the OP is putting himself forward as paragon here] but to accuse him of not loving his kids because he wants a sex life is adding 1 + 1 and making 3.
He does seem to be trying to see how this can be resolved without impact on the kids.
Can we als note that children from divorced parents can do ok you know.
PS I like the irony of a poster named after a porn star p[ who works in the industry] lecturing someone about abstaining from pussy ...only on the internet

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

Aye, but he seems to want to have his cake and eat it.

OP, it's obvious that you're feeling guilty and you don't feel like you can carry on as you are. You must be honest with your wife, because if you aren't you are likely to cause more pain in the future. Counselling seems like a good idea.

Quite honestly you come over to me as self obsessed, selfish and unfeeling. You are looking to us to validate your selfishness and I won't.

its not the wanting of the sex life - its the cheating and lying which is almost inevitable that it will break his marriage.

To take a lover to feel fulfilled yourself is not [i]treating the kids as first priority[/i] as he claimed. If he did he would not be a philander

I cannot stand dishonesty especially with added hypocrisy

Crossed posts.
a way out. Stop the affair immediately for good. Confess all to the wife and ask for forgivness. Ask for an opportunity to rebuild the marriage. If she won't then accept a divorce and do not contest a thing.

Start to behave like an adult and accept repsoisibility for your action

I think people are being a bit harsh here and TJ you are right... you are very black and white, some situations are not.

I've been here myself of late and know exactly where the OP is coming from. His self proclamimed sudonym of "Desperategit" is quite approipraite as he is desperate. Acting in desperation will make you do some strange things.
Its not just sex. Its closeness, intimacy, to feel wanted and loved. If you haven't got that then it not a healty relationship that will last.

TO the OP I was in the same boat. I had the same thoughts, I could have it on the side and the family will stay together. Everyone will be happy. But you are kidding yourself. I never went down this path but I had thought about it many times. I eventually realised that we either work it out or split. We went to a counsellor (We still are) and things are looking better. Its early days but its things are looking positive and its the best its been for 2 years. You both have to realise its an issue and both have to want to work at it or it'll be a lost case.

Good luck, just be honest with yourself and those around you and things will work themselves out. One way or the other.

The wife changed the dynamics of the relationships when she decided she wanted no sex life (I'm assuming this wasn't always the case). If you are now incompatible and want different things then maybe a split is for the best but you ned to talk and find out what you both want and need from the relationship.

To all the haters... If you met your SO when you both had a passion for cycling would you you never cycle again if she suddenly decided she didn't want to ride anymore? No riding with anyone else ever again or riding together.... Oh she will let you ride on the turbo trainer in the backroom behind closed doors if you clear your own mess up afterwards and pretend it never happened....

TJ - you are completely out of order there and those are cruel words.

Quite honestly, if there is nothing left in a relationship and you are staying for the sake of the kids, then I think you would both be better off going your separate ways. Neither of you should feel guilty doing this.

I was married for decades and, quite frankly, lived a charade for part of it. Consequently my (now adult) children have become rather confused as to what a 'normal' marriage is. 😕

From what you're saying the only person who has a problem with this arrangement at the moment is you. I would bet that your wife has an inkling of what's going on, and maybe even your kids.

You don't need to start making decisions until things come to a head. In fact that's the only time you'll have any bargaining power if you want people to make a commitment to a new way of living.

So, make sure you've got a credit card in your own name with a fair bit of credit left on it, just in case, and carry on till you have to stop.

My parents argued and fought so much when I was a child, I actually wanted them to split up. They didnt for the kids, I respect them for it, but doubt anyone, my brother and sister included was happier for them staying together. Home would have been a much nicer place had they split and we would probably have got more love and attention from each of them seperatly. People should stop looking at family units with rose tinted glasses.

If your unhappy, and your wifes unreasonable, move on.

Alternativly, if shes no interest in sex, then shes nothing to be jelous of eh! (yes I know, I know, its the intimatesy betrayal)

But surely having a happy Mum and Dad living separately is better than an unhappy Mum and Dad living together?

They would rather that Mum and Dad worked it out. I've watched it happen and I would never want to go through it. They will get over it but you are going to hit them for about 5 years of their life very hard when they are right at the part when they are really starting to work out what relationships are for themselves.

Relationships change, they don't stay the same. The 7 year itch isn't made up. Stick with it. Stop the 'bit on the side' now because as TJ says, the fact that you are having to hide something will be destroying what is left of your current relationship.

...and great post and responses from you.

(Edit: and from gravitysucks as well)

CG - in that case he should separate now. Stop lying and cheating.

If the marriage is dead than it is better for the kids to separate I am sure. I was not advocating staying for the sake of the kids.

I am angry with the hypocrisy of saying

The kids are my first priority

Of course it can work, and it's quite "normal" here in France.

It doesn't work for me, but I have a French friend who is happily married who has had the same mistress for years. They all know about each other and it works.

Or, at least it did, then it ended in tears.

SB

Where to start...

I've been there and done that, and thankfully come out the other side and older and slightly wiser man.

1). Stop with all the 'it's her fault because' rubbish. You've been the baddy, and until you face up to it and accept your responsibility you and any relationship you end up in isn't worth anything.

2). Stop with all the 'my kids are my priority' rubbish. You have chosen to take a course of action that will upset and damage your kids and your relationship with them; if they really were your priority, you wouldn't be shagging someone else.

3). Sit and imagine, just for a moment, the sound of your wife sobbing quietly at 3 am.

She's sobbing quietly because she doesn't want to wake you, she's sobbing because everything that she thought was ok suddenly isn't, the last 20 years have just been thrown away so you can have sex with someone else.

4). Imagine sitting in desperation at the top of the stairs listening to your children talking about not having a dad anymore because 'he's got a new girlfriend now'

5). Imagine getting a letter, written by your youngest son, that begs you to come home and includes a toy train because he thinks you will be happier if he shared his toys with you.

I had an affair, then left home to live with the woman, didn't work out, so I ended up living out of a suitcase, drunk for 3 months.

In the end I went back and asked if we could start again, and I got lucky.

You know what you are doing is wrong, and that feeling will eat away at you forever, gradually destroying your sense of self and sense of self worth.

Your call; make the right one.

Isn't that what they call a some sex relationship?

Good post there by crikey.

I think it is you that is the spongebrain Junkyard!

The OP has children! These should be his main focus and not what is on the end of his cock!

I think liberal attitudes like yours are all too common these days and this selfishness inevitably causes a great deal of misery to many innocent people!

If adults could act like adults and take some responsibility for their fmilies, instead of acting like self-centred hedonistic egomaniacs, then the world would be a better place.

That is an unrealistic notion of mine, because individuals believe their wants and needs are more important than those of the people around them. They will argue robustly to defend what THEY want, their rights etc etc and stuff everyone else.

If you had witnessed close hand, the damage an extramarital affair could have on a relationship, you would wind your misguided little neck in!

Such an affair occurred in my immediate family this year which culminated in my brother in-law hanging himself.

So go carefully when preaching your liberal thinking to others Junkyard.

Thinking about it, your name suggests the place where you belong!

Crikey indeed!

TJ step away fromt he thread you have made yourpoint bluntly and unequivocally rehashing it wont help anyone.

They would rather that Mum and Dad worked it out.