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It probably won't affect the serious alcoholics much - as others have said, they'll find a way anyway. But what it will affect is the occasional alcoholics - the kids who like to get hammered on a bottle of cheap cider, the people who drink two beers a night instead of one, people like that.
A bottle of wine will be about £4.50 minimum, a bottle of whisky about £14. So if you like an occasional drink, it'll still be possible to do that pretty cheaply. What will be more expensive is the 8% cider and the high-strength lager.
I'm looking forward to people becoming more discerning about what they think - tasting notes graffitied on park benches 😉
Wonder if it'll cause an increase in cheap imported/smuggled alcohol?
They won't be the same price. The Strongbow, and all other offerings above will increase in price to keep the perception of 'premium' quality.As regards the superstength cheapo ciders - again my guess is the market for these will disappear as decent cider becomes the same price as industrial rotgut. Who would drink Frosty Jacks over say strongbow when they are the same price per unit alcohol?
The big losers in this will be spirits drinkers. Looking at the Tesco website, pricing is currently,
Tesco own brand gin £10 - £11.00
Gordon's £14.50
Tanqueray £18.00
Edinburgh Gin £29.50
Now that the own brand stuff will have to be £14.00 I'd expect to see the others increase by £4.00 - £5.00 as well.
The cheap alcohol producers will put up thier prices to the shops, there not going to let the shops reap all the extra revenue especially if they are feeling the pinch of falling sales, then if they also produce more quality brands they may have to put the prices of those to meet the shortfall.
Wonder if it'll cause an increase in cheap imported/smuggled alcohol?
Possibly, who knows, but tbh I don't think the price hike is significant enough to warrant all that hassle.
I'm old enough to remember having to go to a special shop to buy alcohol, and a bottle of spirits was expensive enough to be a special occasion purchase.
Its too easy and cheap nowadays to just fling a bottle of voddy or two on top of the trolley at the supermarket.
Unless you live in Gretna?I don't think the price hike is significant enough to warrant all that hassle.
The manager of Asda in Carlisle must be excited.
They've practically got their own slip road to the M74.
@seosamh - smoking has been on a general decline as your graph shows. I wonder how the numbers are distributed across social classes and age groups - personal observational evidence would indicate that there's a higher proportion in working class people and in what might be described as economically deprived areas. Older people are likely to carry on smoking as they are: a) addicted or b) probably justify it by "I'm 70 and it hasn't done me any harm" or "what's the point at my age?"
Imported drink? Hmm, maybe brexit can come to the rescue here (never thought I'd say that!) as the UK would be free to impose higher tariffs or lower personal allowances.
Anyone up for setting up booze cruises from Scotland to Berwick?
Oh and people don’t become alcoholics due to bad education, there is always a deep social problem in their somewhere. Sexual abuse as a child, abusive partners or other problems lead to alcohol abuse not “Oooh! I didn’t realise it was bad for me”.
You can slip into alcoholism drac it’s not always to mask som form of emotional or physical trauma
There is always a reason for an addiction chip
Oh and people don’t become alcoholics due to bad education, there is always a deep social problem in their somewhere. Sexual abuse as a child, abusive partners or other problems lead to alcohol abuse not “Oooh! I didn’t realise it was bad for me”.
Totally agree. There can also be a genetic link related to dopamine (neurotransmitter) levels in the brain and propensity towards addictive behaviours. Alcoholism can't be explained by social and economic variables alone.
I live just over the border but all my supermarket shopping is done in Berwick. 🙂Anyone up for setting up booze cruises from Scotland to Berwick?
[quote=[b]El Vino[/b] ]Don't be sucked in by the 50p per unit not impacting prices for normal drinkers, it is the thin end of the wedge to get the principal established with minimum fuss.
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Oh and people don’t become alcoholics due to bad education, there is always a deep social problem in their somewhere
Not always.
Plenty folks that don't think they have an issue, 2 or 3 large lasses of red a night (Hey, red's good for you, right?) I have friends ( a married couple) that don't ever get drunk, don't go out much, but they have 2 large vodka n cokes each, every night. I'd bet there's about 4 pub measures in that vodka, that could easily lead to more later in life.
As I said, I'm not convinced it'll work, but something needs to change.
lol @ ygh!
yes I don't think the price hike is all that significant to make much difference. I'm not overly fussed about it tbh. Any alcohol I buy is usually above these limits, I prefer alcohol a notch above paint stripper! I do reckon everyone will see a hike regardless.Nobeerinthefridge - Member
Wonder if it'll cause an increase in cheap imported/smuggled alcohol?
Possibly, who knows, but tbh I don't think the price hike is significant enough to warrant all that hassle
I assume this will be linked to inflation too btw, as inflation will render it completely pointless soon enough.
There can also be a genetic link related to dopamine (neurotransmitter) levels in the brain and propensity towards addictive behaviour.
There is evidence to suggest that is not true at all though.
Plenty folks that don't think they have an issue, 2 or 3 large lasses of red a night (Hey, red's good for you, right?) I have friends ( a married couple) that don't ever get drunk, don't go out much, but they have 2 large vodka n cokes each, every night. I'd bet there's about 4 pub measures in that vodka, that could easily lead to more later in life.
Ok yes there are those that drink every night and don’t think it’s an issue but why not a large step from alcoholism it’s a big difference.
guess that depends on how you define addiction.Drac - Moderator
There is always a reason for an addiction chip
Iceland seems to have a better way to solve the problem
Ok yes there are those that drink every night and don’t think it’s an issue but why not a large step from alcoholism it’s a big difference
Surely it's not volume dependant, but rather a dependancy? If someone only smokes 10 fags, as opposed to 60, are they not a smoker?.
TBH I think this is a good thing, rather it be a Tax levied rather some arbitrary “put prices up”
We are all too dependant on alcohol, from the two pints a week to the 4-5 bottles of red a week to the 1ltr bottle of whiskey a week.. we all drink too much.. why? Invariably to disguise some underlying issues we all have about society or relationships.
Alcohol will never go away, it’ll always be the accepted form of inebriation and Taxed according because it’s a) easy to do at source b) easy to sell and c) people love a drink. Alcoholics aren’t really those we see on park benches comatose anymore, it’s those that drive drunk to work and stumble through the day to sit on the sofa and open another bottle.
Yes, yes I’m a puritanical snob.
Wonder if it'll cause an increase in cheap imported/smuggled alcohol?
Probably not. I think that why they're talking of a minimum price at retail rather than slapping on more excise duty.
The booze may be smuggled but the corner shop still has to charge the minimum price. It'll be obvious if they're not, unless they are selling it under the counter in plain brown paper.
Upping excise duty will just mean more smuggling with no control over final price to the consumer, which is supposed to be the whole object of the exercise.
Maybe so but youre correct.
Alcohol cause a lot of harm and cost society a fortune. If increasing the price reduces that its a good thing.
Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction...?
Not sure, but you can guarantee theft will go up.
I'm old enough to remember having to go to a special shop to buy alcohol, and a bottle of spirits was expensive enough to be a special occasion purchase.
I quite like the North American system where you aren't allowed to sell alcohol over a certain % in supermarkets, meaning you have to make a special trip to state-approved liquor stores.
Personally, I don't think pushing the price up solves anything, it just means people who want to drink either spend more overall or go short on other things.
sweepy - Member
I'm old enough to remember having to go to a special shop to buy alcohol, and a bottle of spirits was expensive enough to be a special occasion purchase.
Me too. That graph basically shows a doubling of alcohol consumption since those days.
I'm happy to see this. I think it will hit the binge drinking culture which has grown up amongst young folk, and that can only be good.
Alcoholics will be alcoholics, and no legislation will stop them.
Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction...?
Seems to be from the scottish gov link I provided to their reasoning for this. I dint read the research to see if it looked decent quality but its clear this is a well thought out policy based at least on some evidence
Binge culture in Scotland/UK has to end. If this helps then I'm all for it. Unsure it'll do anything for those committed drinkers/addicts as they'll always find a way whether it's spending less on other things to afford the booze or just stealing it.
Wine generally £5/btl minimum most of the time and the 12 pack of Corona 😳 I bought at the weekend was a tenner in Tesco. 1.7 units in a 330ml bottle, so will become £10.20 to comply.
Then They should make the pubs and bars landlords responsible for having drunk people on there premises like they used to be and then they would not serve people who were already legless then turning them out on the streets to be a problem for our struggling police forces and nhs
Whilst pub drinkers are not completely without fault, the majority of "problem" drinkers are drinking stuff bought at the supermarket whilst at home. You'll struggle to find a pub that will trouble these minimum prices, certainly without taking into account offers which are easily stopped.
We are all too dependant on alcohol, from the two pints a week to the 4-5 bottles of red a week to the 1ltr bottle of whiskey a week.. we all drink too much.. why? [u]Invariably to disguise some underlying issues we all have about society or relationships[/u].
Really? I probably drink too much, but only because I enjoy it! I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with issues with my relationships or with society.
As for whether higher prices for cheap high alcoholic drinks, it will simply make it more difficult for people to afford it, so its a step.
Apparently we spend £3 billion pounds in Scotland treating the effects of alcohol
England also spends £3 billion pounds on the same treatment
The key difference being our population is 1/10th of England's 😯
Be careful what you infer from those figures...
Sounds like Scotland are maybe funding the problem where as England aren’t.
If you have a look at drinking culture in Scandinavian countries I don't think that increasing prices necessarily leads to a healthier drinking culture.
What you see is people not drinking anything during the week and then really going for it at the weekend. You might reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over the course of a week but I would argue that getting absolutely shit-faced in a single night is worse.
Contrast this with the southern European culture where people drink little but often and booze prices are very low suggests that just increasing prices is not the answer.
Maybe it's just a question of how crappy your climate is.
Getting blatted on a weekend? That’ll never happen in the UK
Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction...?
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/scharr/sections/ph/research/alpol/research/completed/scotland
It's [s]almost as though[/s] not like they made this policy up without researching it properly.
Imposing a minimum unit price for alcohol leads to a dramatic fall in drink-related crime, including murders, sexual assaults and drink-driving, a new study shows.Crimes perpetrated against people, including violent assaults, fell by 9.17% when the price of alcohol was increased by 10% over nine years in the Canadian province of British Columbia. Motoring offences linked to alcohol, such as killing or injuring someone with a vehicle and refusing to take a breath test, fell even more – by 18.8% – the study found.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/28/minimum-alcohol-pricing-cuts-serious-crime-canada
TBF, I've also seen some rebuttal of that study
There are a number of studies that show this approach works (see http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361060058X for an example). But 50p is only just starting to have an effect.
But it will have other impacts too - which is why the SWA oppose it.
Crimes perpetrated against people, including violent assaults, fell by 9.17% when the price of alcohol was increased by 10% over nine years in the Canadian province of British Columbia.
At a time when they were decreasing in many other countries which hadn't brought in minimum pricing.
The bargain £15 litre bottles of Gordons or Grouse etc will be up to £20. Luckily I visit relatives in England often enough to stock up there, at least until any English govt brings this in.
Though I'd support a change in UK duty rates. I can't see the logic in a unit of alcohol attracting 7p tax in strong cider but 28p tax in spirits.
I predict an increase in spirit sales to alkies. Why drink litres of cider when the same effect at the same cost is available from a smaller volume of spirits.
like a cut in swa profits as their market for cheap industrial alcohol used for frosty jacks will disappear?
What negative effects will there be?
At 50p a unit at least the price of Buckfast (11.25 units) won't be affected.
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What negative effects will there be?
Well, if the (pessimistic) predictions are correct that all booze prices will step up, then this will have a negative effect on independent producers. Already at the top end for most people's 'casual' drink purchase budget, either maintaining their current prices will put them in direct competition with the big producers putting their prices up; or they will be forced to increase their prices, potentially leaving them uncompetitive. I don't believe that either scenario will necessarily come to pass (he says hopefully) but Will probably depend on whether Joe Public changes their expectations of what a bottle of booze is going to cost them.
My question is will people be drinking anti-freeze as substitution like in Russia, or will there be illegal "moonshine" coming from the "entrepreneurial" ones. The high price will definitely attract some of them. 😯