[Closed] Minimum alcohol pricing and units

Aye, that was pretty stupid- she was caught right out.
But, and I never thought I'd say this about a Tory policy, anything that helps cut down on the number of folk downing frosty jack and super on a Tuesday morning is prob a good thing..
Strange how the Scottish Tories didn't support another party's bid to introduce it up here! Wonder if that's gonna change soon?

althepal - they've already changed policy in Scotland.

Just waiting to see what the Labour policy is this week.

Ah - now we have it.

Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said the Labour Party supported the idea of a minimum unit price, subject to debate about where it should be set to ensure it worked.

Be fair to May, she only got told she'd be announcing the policy yesterday after Cameron and Osborne read the post-budget papers.

It's got nothing to do with alcohol and trying to save people has it? really?

so where does the extra money go, i assume the manufacturers just increase their profits?

The row in Scotland (and the reason the Labour party vote against it) is that the increased cost goes to the retailers profits.

Mind you, they also voted against a "supermarket levy" as that would harm business profits 🙄

Goods like this should be taxed to the hilt, luxury items along with tobacco need supertax. Maybe then use some of the extra to promote healthy eating.

so where does the extra money go, i assume the manufacturers just increase their profits?

No , not at all .
the biggest retailers will take the hit . Tesco et al will 'ask' for a big discount from their suppliers when doing 2 for 1 promos , or selling a box of 24 bottles for £9.99 .
They rely on the increased volume to make up any losses , and on compliance from the supply chain .

another load of crap, ordinary people being punished due to the stupidity of the minority.

What's your tipple dazz?

another load of crap, ordinary people being punished due to the stupidity of the minority.

How's that?
Way I read it, it'll be high strength lager and cider affected the most, with the very cheapest bottles of wine up a bit. Not sure how much it'll affect your 'ordinary' people.

i dont drink but the issue is a cultural one [ binge drinking and pre loading] that minor cost adjustments wont alter.

whatever's cheapest or on special failing that, diamond white I find it goes down well on a park bench & my dog loves it too 😀

Seriously, I very rarely drink, the last time I had a pint was over Christmas. I'm just sick of all the laws, rules, whatever else penalising ordinary people due to the idiotic few, lower the price of alcohol, let all the idiots drink themselves to death. Win - win

How's that?
Way I read it, it'll be high strength lager and cider affected the most, with the very cheapest bottles of wine up a bit. Not sure how much it'll affect your 'ordinary' people

Sorry Vinny, I forgot ordinary people never drink spirits, cider or high strength lager

Unfortunately, the idiots don't slink off and drink quietly..... 😛

Junkyard - Member
i dont drink but the issue is a cultural one [ binge drinking and pre loading] that minor cost adjustments wont alter.

pre-loading is relatively new, though, right?

Relatively?

The issue I have with this, is that it will do nothing to alleviate our cultural problems. But it will impede on the lives of alcoholics. Most of them already living on the edge of poverty. Taking more of their money. And more money from their children. I hardly see it as a better step towards a more positive future...

They're talking about city centres, where people are happy to spend £50....£100....£300 on a night out... I hardly see 40p a unit making an impact. Not when bars are charging £4 a pint anyways.

And what's this 'pre-loading' term about. Like it's some dirty hit of heroin before painting the town. So Vodka's going to go up to £10, rather than the usual £9. That group of four....I'm sure they'll change their mind and go to the Opera when they see they have to pay an extra 25p each to 'pre-load'...

Absolute drivel. I'd genuinely welcome a rational and reasoned counter-argument. Rather than the dude on the radio this morning who thought a tenner was a reasonable amount to spend on a night out... Clueless.

But, and I never thought I'd say this about a Tory policy, anything that helps cut down on the number of folk downing frosty jack and super on a Tuesday morning is prob a good thing..

I'm not convinced by the effectiveness of this, although I did wonder if it might benefit smaller businesses who can't compete on price with the supermarkets but they still don't have the convenience factor of buying 12l of super cider on the weekly shop so probably not.

If it's a minimum retail price per unit then this will go into the retailer's pocket but ultimately the differential will get taxed (it's extra income and I doubt they'll be paying more wholesale so George will get a %'age to spend on hospitals etc.)

But, and I never thought I'd say this about a Tory policy, anything that helps cut down on the number of folk downing frosty jack and super on a Tuesday morning is prob a good thing..

More expensive alcohol won't stop the sort of person who drinks on a Tuesday morning from drinking though will it?

Maybe not but would it make it more expensive to the point where they could afford less of it?

I suspect not. After all if your priority is to have a cheap cider or two before your smoked salmon and scrambled egg on toast in the morning then you might just have to switch to a mid-range bread to afford the extra cider and live with the shame of not having an artisan loaf.

After all that I've decided I agree with you. 🙄

I've long thought it would be a good idea but I cannot see 40p a unit being enough to put your average binge drinker off much. so a 70 cl bottle of 40% vodka has to cost a minimum of £11.20. Still pretty cheap?

Strong (5%) lager and cheap spirits did for us when we were students!

Don't bother me, I doubt I drink 20 units year!
I do think something needs to be done about the dirt cheap stuff all the chavvy kids drink though.

the issue is a cultural one

At least in Scotland we are able to make these changes, goodness knows we need them.

Even if it does little to change the habits maybe the money could be used to fund tax cuts for the working class.

Not sure this will make any difference, but something needs to be tried. Dont drink myself, so cant really comment.

I did see someone on TV this morning saying alcohol related A&E admissions should be charged/fined say £50, which I initially thought sounded fair, but then realised I am most likely to end up in hospital with a self inflicted injury (ala bike) so is that any different? Although hopefully I would be in a more polite and not spewing everywhere. Hopefully.

ordinary people being punished

this ordinary person won't be punished no matter how high the price goes

I make my own 😉

grain:
3.000kg pale malt
0.230kg crystal malt

hops:
9g Cascade 60 mins
18g Challenger 60 mins
15g Cascade 10 mins
5g Bobek 0 mins
26 litres of water
yeast

steep grains in a mesh bag in the water in a big pan for 60-90 minutes at 64-69degC

remove mesh bag & rinse grains; add rinse water to the pan.
bring to boil
add 60 minute hops 50 minutes
add 10 minute hops and 3g "irish moss", continue boiling for another 10 minutes
turn heat off
when it gets down to 80degC, add the 0 minute hops

transfer to sterilised bucket. cool to 22degC. Add yeast. wait for 1-2 weeks. transfer into bottles, add a little bit more sugar. cap the bottles & wait 3 weeks.
Bingo, 18 litres of beer about 3.8% ABV. Want it stronger? use more pale malt.

price? as little as £8 for the 36x 500ml bottles.

As others have said, it might make it a little easier for small local pubs to scrape by when the supermarket down the road can't sell chemical lager as a loss-leader

Goods like this should be taxed to the hilt, luxury items along with tobacco need supertax. Maybe then use some of the extra to promote healthy eating.

And you don't think alcohol is taxed to the hilt ?

Alcohol duty in the UK is among the highest in the world.

And you don't think alcohol is taxed to the hilt ?

Try asking a Norwegian if ours is taxed to the hilt.

Why, are Norwegians renowned for their expertise on UK alcohol duty levels ?

UK tax rates on beer are eight times higher than in France, 10 times higher than in Spain and 11 times higher than in Germany.

Britain's beer drinkers are paying 40% of the entire beer duty bill in the European Union – despite Britain's 12% share of the total population.

http://www.eatoutmagazine.co.uk/online_article/Beer-taxes-already-among-highest-in-the-world,-warns-BBPA/12811

pre-loading is relatively new, though, right?

I guess we're we're Pre Loading I the early 90's in the student days when we had a few cans of Brew to "sharpen up" before heading out.

It's making Meths better value again. And freely available at your local DIY superstore

the issue is a cultural one [ binge drinking and pre loading] that minor cost adjustments wont alter.

I suspect its the relatively high price of beer in pubs that has increased the demand for higher strength drinks, when you have to pay so much you want more bang for your buck.

They should set two duty levels for beer, doubling when a drink is stronger than 4.5 gravity.
And change the licensing laws so that numbers are more restricted in pubs and bars to end the cattle markets that currently seem to dominate the British drinking scene.

And change the licensing laws so that numbers are more restricted in pubs and bars to end the cattle markets that currently seem to dominate the British drinking scene.

You clearly drink in the wrong pubs

Well, I don't think it's a few idiots who are spoiling it for everyone else.. Closer to 50/50 perhaps- especially at weekends!
Oh, and I don't think this is a solution to the problems, socio-economic, cultural blah blah blah..
But at least its a start..
What next though- NHS Super? Done it with Heroin/methadone so why not??

Not really followed this so can someone clarify. If it is 40p a unit then cans of Stella will basically be just short of a quid, does this mean they will no longer be able to be sold on offer? No loopholes etc? You're paying for a slab of 24 ie 24 quid but were gonna give you some free??

You clearly drink in the wrong pubs

Its not about where I drink, its about the thousands upon thousands of pubs that dominate UK town centres where the business model is to pack em in, blast out loud music and serve strong lager.

The whole scenario is clearly anti-social, and it no surprise that it creates anti-social behaviour.

I first put this graph together when Salmond first mooted the idea (in March 09 according to the image tag). Maybe I ought to update it for todays prices and the 40p minimum rate.
[img] [/img]

wrightyson:

It remains unclear how the ban on discount deals would work in practice. But Guardian analysis suggests the government's proposed minimum price alone would substantially curtail many of the high-profile drinks deals promoted by major supermarkets. Data provided by the research company Assosia, covering promotions between December and February this year, shows Tesco and Sainsbury's offered two-for-£20 deals on 20-pack crates of Strongbow cider – a sale of more than 93 units of alcohol, working out at just 21p per unit.

At 40p a unit, the two packs would have to cost a minimum of £37.30.

A deal offering 20 cans of Stella Artois – 44 units of alcohol – for £10 at Asda would become substantially more expensive, with a minimum price of £17.60.

(Obviously, the retailer wouldn't be allowed to sell 10 cans for 19 quid and "give" you the other 10 cans "free").

Its not about where I drink, its about the thousands upon thousands of pubs that dominate UK town centres where the business model is to pack em in, blast out loud music and serve strong lager.

The whole scenario is clearly anti-social, and it no surprise that it creates anti-social behaviour.

So you don't like those places. Neither do I, so I don't go in them. But I wouldn't dream of suggesting that they should be banned from existing. I'm pretty sure most people under 25 enjoy spending their time there for one reason or another - usually to try to become very social with the opposite sex.

Thing is tho I can see several loopholes being worked out by the big companies surely? There's gonna be a major outcry when ya can't get three cases of carlsberg and two of those stupid England window flags for £9.99 come June time!! 😥

At 40p a unit, the two packs would have to cost a minimum of £37.30.

Which then makes 'better' drinks made by smaller manufacturers, or a pint or two in the pub seem much better value