Sorry to hear all that. Is it possible that he will view the op as just something that he had to go through to fix his jaw rather than feeling that in retrospect, it could have been a way out?

Christ, and there was me feeling all shit cos my son wrecked his car. Certainly puts that in perspective. Sorry for what you and your family are going through.

Sounds rough, everyday life never stops to give you a breather when you have stuff like that going on as well, can't say I've ever been through anything close to that hard before. It's OK to not feel capable of managing it, not many people would go through all that and feel in control. Just venting on here does help.

That's awful, so sorry to hear that.

My thoughts are with you & your family, such tough times.
RM.

That's an awful lot to cope with, feel free to come on here to rant and scream as required.

Puts my ongoing hissy fit about work getting me down into some perspective.

Christ, I am sorry too. Hugs.

Incidentally I always read your name as "sade - x - punk"...

Incidentally I always read your name as “sade – x – punk

Oh that's messed up my image now

And hugest sympathies with you.  I have no idea how to cope with that at all, the pressure must be immense as you are doing all that is possible

take it steady matey.

Virtual hugs - I just don't know how you are still standing, and it makes me appreciate how small some of my struggles really are.

Is it possible that he will view the op as just something that he had to go through to fix his jaw

i wouldnt have thought so as his jaw still hasnt been fixed, so hes in no more advanced a position than before, in fact worse as theyd already started the op so he's just having to go through a very (unproductive in hindsight) traumatic experience.
think theres a meeting in ICU today to try and work out how to play this now.

thanks all of you for your thoughts.

I had you down as Sadex Punk, with a vague idea that sadex might be something like codex but something it would be too uncool to ask about.

Hugs and hopes for better times ahead to all of you.

Hannah

Cant imagine how hard for you this all is. Sending a big virtual hug mate.

Jesus Dave, that's a hell of a lot of crap to have to deal with, really feel for you.

I assume boy 2's GF is suffering post natal depression, seems much more common than you'd think.

Ben

So sorry to hear this. Hoping things start to turn around for your son and daughter-in-law. Big virtual hugs to you and please keep posting if it helps.

OP, I sympathise deeply, and can understand why you posted on here. Not that they're worth much, but my very best wishes to you and your whole family. And please don't hesitate to post more if you find it helpful.

But you knew that anyway.

That's not a sparkling start to the week (he said with some British understatement). As above have a man hug from the me and the hopes for better things to come.

Hopefully the post-natal depression can be alleviated with the correct meds and some talking therapy.

Your eldest lad is certainly going through the wringer, fingers crossed that he is a sanguine about the ICU visit as the attack.

Incidentally I always read your name as “sade – x – punk

Oh that’s messed up my image now

I had you down as Sadex Punk

who'd have thunk thered be so many ways of interpreting it. naaaah, just a sad ex-punk 😀

with a vague idea that sadex might be something like codex but something it would be too uncool to ask about.

i get the feeling youre way more intellectual than me hannah, i had no idea what a codex is (and still not much wiser after a quick google) 😀

re the post-natal depression, it goes a fair bit deeper than that, but probably a bit too personal to go into, just praying that she gets better soon.

fingers crossed that he is a sanguine about the ICU visit as the attack.

he can really surprise us sometimes, and like i said before, we're really proud of how he dealt with the attack, so 'fear the worst and hope for the best'.

thanks for your continued kind wishes, it means a lot.

That’s an awful situation to be in. I’m really sorry.
Would it help to concentrate on where you maybe can make an immediate difference? With boy 2 and his family?

Incidentally I always read your name as “sade – x – punk”…

I have it as Sadie spunk which is a great punk name 🙂

As for all the rest of it - its just a large steaming pile of shite. all you can do is try to keep yours and your families head in the air not under the surface.

Many of us will have tragedies in our lives. You do not know how you will react until you are there but we are resilient creatures and you will find the strength to help you thru

Be open with everyone - about your feelings especially the positive ones. don't bottle it up. tell your family you love them

I take great comfort from the parable of the oak and the willow. The two trees are standing proud in the field and a gale comes along . The oak stands tall mighty and proud but is eventually broken by the wind. the willow bows down before the wind and springs back up when the gale is past and is bowed but unbroken

Be a willow not an oak

Feel free to PM me to rant or whatever you need.

Would it help to concentrate on where you maybe can make an immediate difference? With boy 2 and his family?

not a fat sight we can do really other than just be there for him. which we are and he knows it. we've told him if he ever gets lonely or wants to talk we'll be right over to pick him up.
yesterday had the potential to be another bad day as it was a family friends funeral and wake, one of our lads best mates who hanged himself a few weeks ago. in the end it was a lovely day despite the circumstances. sun was out, pub garden all afternoon, plenty of tears all round but everyone dealt with it well, especially boy 2 who showed what a fine man hes grown into and wrote some really touching words to be read out at the funeral.

I have it as Sadie spunk which is a great punk name 🙂

oh teej, brilliant, thats my favourite so far 🤣

Many of us will have tragedies in our lives. You do not know how you will react until you are there but we are resilient creatures and you will find the strength to help you thru

Be open with everyone – about your feelings especially the positive ones. don’t bottle it up. tell your family you love them

yep, we're a pretty open family and always tell them that we love them, more so over the last few years.
thanks for your words jeremy, i also remember back in the day you helped us a great deal with your experiences of MH when this was all starting and we didnt know the system.

boy 1 is still unconscious (is this an induced coma 🤷‍♂️) on a ventilator and theyve decided that theyll have to try to operate again whilst hes still in it rather than have to go through it all again later.
he was due to have the op again today but it was cancelled last minute, so not sure if he has to wait til tuesday now due to bank holiday.

cheers

an update for any of you who may have been following this.

boy 1 is out of ICU, has now had his op completed and is recovering. he was kept in due to a chest infection/suspected pneumonia. understandably he was quite distressed when he came round, trying to pull tubes out etc and didnt have a clue what was going on. must have been very scary for him. i gather the problem during the op was from collapsed lung(s), but they dont know why. had x-rays etc but they havent shown any reason for it to happen.
he's been given antibiotics and yesterday was transferred back to MHU to finish his recovery.

boy 2 had a good week as he passed his driving test and bought his first car, so that probably took his mind off his situation a little. he did well to pass it given his state of mind at the time, so all credit to him. his GF and baby are still in the mother/baby unit many miles away tho and from what we hear may be for some time. her family have let her down with her other child tho, and we think we may have to take care of him for a while. just when we'd got used to having the house to ourselves 😀 hes a lovely little lad tho and we want his mum to have the peace of mind that everythings ok back at home.

the pressure feels like its easing a little.

thanks

sadie spunk

Glad things are looking up. Mental health is a cruel beast 🙁

Good news!

Thank you for the update - I am glad that things are moving in the right direction.

I’ve not visited the forum for a few weeks so I’ve only just seen this. Sorry to hear all you and your family are going through but good that a few things are improving.

Glad things look like they are heading the right direction.

Glad to hear things are moving back in the tight direction. But I'm mainly posting to say Sadie Spunk, inspired and that's how I'll read your forum name from now on 🙂 (I was in the sadex punk camp before)

Edit, I also didn't mean to plagiarise MCTDs comment word for word...

Just caught up with this thread, that's a lot of things going on....
Glad things are looking a little better OP, all the best to you and your family.

So sorry to read all of this.
I really hope you can have the strength to carry on and see son 1 recover well, son 2 get his young family back together soon.

Big hugs bunnyhop x

id appreciate your thoughts please on something ive been ruminating on for a couple of weeks or so now, and still cant decide if its a good or bad idea.

things have settled down now and whilst reflecting on whats happened to my lad, a few people have asked us if we're going to claim for what he's just been through. my thoughts were definitely not, the NHS is stretched too far anyway, it was just one of those things, wrong place at the wrong time, our lad has forgiven his attacker etc, lets all move on.
we dont want to make any money from it (it wouldnt be ours anyway), and my lad has enough for where he is at the moment anyway, disposable income burns a hole in his pocket and hed end up wasting it on fast food and drugs most likely.

however, its been pointed out that his attacker has now been moved to a higher security MHU and shouldnt have been there in the first place and that having had to go through a broken jaw, intensive care and resuscitation, he really should be recompensed.
with this in mind, im starting to wonder if yes, he has actually been 'wronged' and that maybe we could do something to make his life better. im thinking of things such as possibly a private psychiatrist, better standard of care, maybe even better living accommodation if/when he ever 'gets out'.
hes been unlucky all the way through life, had to have a fair few operations and been one of those lads that life just hasnt worked out for him which has lad to his suicidal thoughts, the wish for it all just to end and 'get it over with'. of course, hes contributed to that greatly with all the shit hes put into his body too, theres no denying that.

i havent broached the subject with him as i think he'd either refuse it as the attacker was poorly too, he empathises, leave it at that, or..... 'ooooh lots of money i can be rich', which really wouldnt be a good idea.

i would only want him to be financially better off if that money was dedicated to giving him a better future. id like him to have something to look forward to, to feel that theres light at the end of the tunnel. at the moment i fear for his future but ive always worked on the belief that out of everything bad, something good can come. its led me well through life so far, could this also be the case now?

my wifes against it and feels that it would be taking money out of a system thats already underfunded anyway, and we'd be making it worse. my daughter who's a nurse says that it doesnt work like that and theres money solely for situations such as this via insurance.

of course, there'd be no guarantee of him being successful with any claim anyway but what are your thoughts on this? i must admit i feel uneasy about it for the same reason as my wife, and reading this back it feels like we'd be stabbing the NHS in the back. but is it if it can help my lad have a more positive future from an horrific experience which shouldnt have happened to him in their care?

Putting the money aside for a moment, unfortunately one of the most important sources of learning for the NHS is through mistakes, and often the motivation to prevent further incidents is because of litigation, or the threat of litigation. We all admire the NHS, but sometimes we're doing it no favours by giving it an easy ride when it fails.

Both your daughter and wife are right - it is covered by insurance, but obviously the taxpayer pays the premiums in the end.

Ultimately it's something you'll have to discuss with your lad, who would be the one making the decision.

Take care.

Both your daughter and wife are right – it is covered by insurance, but obviously the taxpayer pays the premiums in the end.

Is it an actual insurance policy?

When I worked for the MoD it "self insured", basically a massive pot of money put to one side to cover stuff that would be insured against in the private sector.

NHS self insures IIRC

If you after money. C'mon, have a word with yourselves....

If it is an issue you have identified, then there are a number of incident reporting systems in the NHS. However, they (largely) appear to be black holes for paperwork. If you've explored other ways to get systemic change due to the incident and been left frustrated, give them a the cog-winder to the budget, I say.

The mental health system is on its knees and has been for as long as anyone can remember, partly due to underfunding, partly due to demoralised staff retreating behind a wall of paperwork rather than attempting something positive without proper backup or just leaving because they are scared or burnt out.

Years ago a certain PM who we all like to blame for everything passed a law which held councillors responsible for failure to fulfil their responsibilities.  Amazingly this was never extended to central government.  If you wanted to sue anyone it should be the cynical bastards who cut the service back to nothing then try and claim credit for raising the budget slightly ‘in a time of need'

Amazingly this isn’t a party political point, successive governments have done the same.  Having watched one branch of the NHS fighting tooth and nail for a relative when he had a 10% chance and then seeing the mental health service refusing or infinitely delaying far cheaper but equally life saving/improving treatment because there is only a 60-70% chance of success doesn’t make you particularly charitable.

Putting the money aside for a moment, unfortunately one of the most important sources of learning for the NHS is through mistakes, and often the motivation to prevent further incidents is because of litigation, or the threat of litigation. We all admire the NHS, but sometimes we’re doing it no favours by giving it an easy ride when it fails.

+1

The legal process is a vital feedback process which creates change in processes. You might feel bad taking money off them (or your son), but you also might save someone's life in the future by forcing them to improve their processes and avoiding a similar situation which causes a death.

You could always sue and if you win, donate the money to MIND etc.