Peri-menopause can happen at that age – it is not as common but it is not impossible.
MrsRNP was late 20's when she started the menopause - she's 50 next year. We met mid 20's and started for a family a few years later but it didn't seem to be happening. We were told on a new years eve appointment that due to her depleted egg stock that we couldn't have children (that was a rubbish night in the pub!)
Heat surge's started for a few years but then subsided. Her libido dropped off a cliff and has never really returned (there's always PornHub!)
But otherwise we seemed to have got off lightly as she's still the awesome MrsRNP that I married.
Well I’m going to the doctors today. The wife thinks it’s because in depressed (which I’m not), my parents noted at the weekend that it’s her that looks depressed (classic projection). I want to explain to the docs my situation and just ask the question, could it be the menopause? If so what can/do I do next? How do I tell wifey that she’s bat shit crazy and needs treating?
Well I’m going to the doctors today
Hope you get some support and guidance
I think it bears reiterating. It is entirely normal to become irritated with the people that we love and live in close proximity with.
When we have other issues, such as the menopause or mental health issues, this can happen more frequently.
However when our response to becoming irritated is to deliberately try and hurt the person who we perceive as the cause of our irritation, either physically, verbally, or mentally, this is abusive behaviour, and it is wrong.
It is common for people who are being abused to feel that they are somehow responsible for the abuse by setting off the other person. They are not.
It is also almost universal that abusers search for excuses that absolve them of responsibility for their behaviour.
Unless we are psychotically delusional, we are all responsible for our own behaviour, no matter how angry we feel at the time.
Similarly, regret and love bombing behaviour between the episodes is not a reliable sign of taking responsibility, and is more often further abusive behaviour with the aim of perpetuating the relationship through manipulative psychological behaviour.
There is a world of difference between someone who does it once or twice, learns from it, and then actually makes changes (not just paying lip service to it), than to someone who professes sorrow but then carries on with the harmful behaviour.
We are not responsible for other adult’s behaviour, only our own. If someone significant in our life is harming us through their behaviour and is not learning how to change it, our only options are to either live with it or leave.
Very informative thread ..thank you to all who bared their souls ..I feel for you having been on the receiving end not long ago but now realize my experience is relatively mild compared to some of the horror stories on here. My wife also went off sex and stayed that way but that was 30 years ago after she met me ! When I first stripped off in front of her she screamed .. " no way ...I'm not a lesbian !"
Seriously though ..life can often seem so cruel and unfair but I guess that's because we believe "fairness" to be a thing ..it's not ..just look around the world . As the Buddha taught 2500 yrs ago ...everything you become attached to will eventually bring suffering because everything is subject to change. The more you love someone/ something , when it changes (..and it will) , the more you suffer . Combine change with our inherent negativity bias and you have a major component of human suffering.
Best of luck everyone , Big hug from Exeter.
Firstly, may I say bravo to the OP for being honest and brave enough to ask for advice. I feel for you, you're in a really brutal situation and I sincerely hope you find a resolution.
Will your wife listen to your children? As in suggest to your children that her behaviour is upsetting them? So you're not the bearer of bad news. Just a thought.
Whoever thought of the thyroid activity, good call and worth investigating.
Yep, menopause does suck. I avoided HRT for years because my Mum had a rough time on it and got off it quickly. Unfortunately, I couldn't stand my physical symptoms any more. 4+ years of interrupted sleep. Every night at 03:00-03:30 I would be woken up on fire. Joint pain was driving me nuts. After the year without any periods I thought that life must get better. It didn't. It got worse. Hot flushes that were so annoying, especially at work. Last thing you need when trying to land an aeroplane is a hot flush! Argh. I had suffered from depression (full recovery) many decades ago so I knew how to handle the mood swings and irritability. Seriously, they are scary and you can just feel so prickly. I counted to 10 many many times.
So I went onto HRT. My GP was brilliant and we got it right the first time. WOW. What a transformation. Within a day, I slept for 8 hours. Amazing. It took a couple of days and the hot flashes, gone. Joint pain, gone. Fatigue, gone. Mood swings, gone. The libido still suffers unfortunately.
It was riding with some of my similarly aged ladies that I realised I had some anxiety and possibly a bit of brain fog. Happily, I now know the anxiety is hormone related so I talk myself through it. The brain fog is now minimised - HRT cannot reverse the brain fog that's already started.
I've just had my annual HRT review. Blood pressure is fine, no migraines, weight gain was minimal (but it did happen - then again, I love eating!). No other issues that would indicate something's not right. I have now accepted my new older self. I do run "hotter" which is great for the electricity bills 😉 and I do get irritable every now and then, then again, I think we all do. 😀 Given the job I do, I know effective, open and honest communication is essential to our relationship. Fortunately, my husband understands too.
Also, we don't have the life pressures many out there have so that keeps the stressors under control.
Some ladies can't take HRT and I feel for them. I just hope their doctors find suitable alternatives to minimise or manage the symptoms. HRT gave me my life back.
I haven't read all the answers.
Make your case calmly when she is calm and put it in terms of I'm sad because we are fighting" rather than " you keep on doing this"
Make your case calmly when she is calm and put it in terms of I’m sad because we are fighting” rather than ” you keep on doing this”
One way of doing this may be to put it in a letter which can be left for them to read when they are ready, it's less confrontational.
For a woman, starting the menopause is about the most unavoidable reminder there is that she’s getting old. As well as all the hormonal issues, there can be another impact on mental health – “I’m old, I can’t hide that fact from myself now” which can be pretty tough to deal with.
@edward2000 If your partner is even slightly aware of what's taking place her reaction is likely to be worse due to her relative youth. One of Mrs Sandwich's friends went through menopause whilst her kids were in primary school, that marriage went South soon afterwards.
My experience is that an older woman will take less crap from their partner generally and even less when menopause is done and dusted. Our experience of HRT has been mixed. The pill and gel worked but caused excessive bleeding, the patches worked for a while but there's now bleeding again and herself is less than impressed with it. The medical specialists have been dismissive of all this and less than helpful. On the plus side madame is less fuzzy with her logic and is delightful to be around again.
Today, we had the most ridiculous exchange of words about what pants I wanted for Christmas - in August. I admit I responded with some incredulity. I would laugh at how puerile it all was if it wasn't a perfect microcosm of our difficulties.
The details are irrelevant. I was left anxious about the exchange, with nerves jangling, unable to focus on work all morning and over-analysing what happend, as one tends to do when there's no feed back from the other.
No other conflict in my life affects me thus, so I know its significant. When I returned for lunch, I attempted to put a plaster on the wound by trying to discuss how and why our exchange was so unpleasant, to be derided and laughed at. Apparently my turmoil is amusing - this makes me sad.
We worked at it for 10 minutes, which has to be the longest conversation we've had that wasn't about the kids welfare for at least 2 years. It turns out we weren't even bickering about the same thing within the conversation.
More came tumbling out than I wanted and now I feel vulnerable and regretful, but I suppose its out there. She just stood there with a dismissive look on her face.
Am I expected to 'be the man' and just suck it all up? It's like she doesn't see how horrible its been/is.
But she's said she doesn't want a separation and suggested some counselling, so thats at least some progress, or is it just a sop to the main event, or delaying the inevitable?
I'm not averse to counselling but I know absolutely nothing about it. Does anyone have any useful experience to add?
But she’s said she doesn’t want a separation and suggested some counselling
Its a start - no direct experience but from friends it gets stuff out in the open. That may enable you to resolve, or to decide to end it.
No one should have to live with the feelings that you described.
But she’s said she doesn’t want a separation and suggested some counselling, so thats at least some progress, or is it just a sop to the main event, or delaying the inevitable?
I’m not averse to counselling but I know absolutely nothing about it. Does anyone have any useful experience to add?
I have had some - some "marriage guidence" which helped hugely. Only 3 or 4 sessions as I remember. Julie and I had got into a pattern of fighting about nothing much and I have no doubt that the counselling saved our relationship and afterwards we had 25 good years.
Counselling depends on both of your agendas.
The fact that she's suggested it is a reasonable sign, as long as she follows through on it.
We’re trying it. I can’t imagine it will be useful if I’m honest, my wife’s listening skills are appalling.
Counselling is incredibly hard work but potentially very rewarding. You both have to commit 100%.
You may not follow the path you thought or find the outcome you wanted though. Be aware of that
I have been through two periods of counselling, both very different but ultimately very important in being able to move forward in a relationship. In both cases it took many sessions to reach clarity, it was tiring and sometimes frightening if I'm honest. I'd like to think I was a better person for it though, and I think it helped in many areas of my life, not just personal relationships
We’re trying it. I can’t imagine it will be useful if I’m honest, my wife’s listening skills are appalling.
Thats the sort of judgemental thinking that leads to problems ( not meant personally). You all need to remember it takes two to tango. I had to accept my responsibilities for the rows we were having as did Julie. You have to take the judgemental stuff out and actively engage positivly
Before the counselling I would have said it was all her fault. Afterwards I accepted my share of the responsibility which allowed us to move forward
For those interested in learning/understanding more about the science of the menopause i can highly recommend the podcasts by Doctor Louise Newson. There are 2 recent ones (podcast 216 and 217) that look particularly relevant to this thread that may give some understanding of the mental health/mood issues people are experiencing and could provide those suffering with an insentive to seek treatment. In a nutshell hormones are seriously powerful things.
https://www.balance-menopause.com/type/podcast/
OP here, returning to this thread for first time to reply, but have been keeping up with it.
I would like to thank everyone for their advice, support, kind words and solidarity. It really has meant so much. Whilst I take some comfort in knowing that I am not alone, it is sad to see so many other people with similar experiences.
I've been doing more research and am convinced it is menopause symptoms. She is complaining about brain fog, weight gain, exhaustion, heavy periods and general anxiety. I am experiencing the thick end of the mood swings (that is the diplomatic version) and loss of libido is obvious. Age is also about right. The challenge I now have is helping her to come to the same conclusion and seek help. My wife is a medic and with that comes a degree of arrogance, she is unlikely to listen to friends or family on this one.
I do know that there is a high chance that her mood swings gives her licence to voice complaints that she has rumbling away all of the time, I need to find a way of working through these with her. I'm not putting all of these problems on her, I have to step up.
In the meantime, she has been lovely!. But, I know we are on a countdown to the next, inevitable, massive blow up. I'm dreading it.
Its all ruddy difficult
have you tried to talk to her about this when her mood is good? As above put in in terms of " I am sad, I am worried" not " you did this"
Is there a mutual female friend that might have a word?
Also remember that she may well hate what she is becoming / doing and menopause can in some folk be almost grief like in the reaction. Denial, anger etc
For those considering counselling. There are different sorts and different counsellors. It has saved my relationship. But did not work for a friend. I strongly recommend it if only to help build empathy and perspective.
As a sufferer of these symptoms myself, I would also like to thank everyone that has posted on here. Based on the recommendation, I read the book Menopausing last week and it swung my decision to seek help sooner rather than later. Hearing how these symptoms have been improved by HRT on this thread is encouraging and I'm keeping my fingers crossed it will work for me.
My doctor asked what I knew about it and I wanted to say I got all this useful information off the Singletrack World forum, but I knew she wouldn't understand... 😀
Anyway, patches ordered for next week and I'll let you know if they have transformed me into a younger happier person in a month or two! 😀
My doctor asked what I knew about it and I wanted to say I got all this useful information off the Singletrack World forum, but I knew she wouldn’t understand… 😀
Possible new member? Or already a member!
I can’t imagine it will be useful if I’m honest, my wife’s listening skills are appalling.
To be honest, my ex was (and still is) *incredibly* bad at listening (and remembering stuff!) and has been for most of her life. It's been commented on by her parents, grandparents, siblings, friends and now even our kids. Despite that, she's in complete denial and refuses to acknowledge that there is any sort of an issue.
@No_discerning_taste don't get fixed on one type of HRT. Mrs S is currently off the patches (puncture repair patches of awsomeness) as the breakthrough bleeding has returned. There will be a short intermission while brain-fog and other symptoms are assessed and if necessary she'll be going with option 3 (The Davina option) Mirena coil and oestrogen patches which I hope works for a bit longer for her. Thankfully there's a specialist GP at our practice who's good on chopping and changing and more importantly is also a woman. (Some of the Gynae consultants have been arrogant male arseholes and should be allowed nowhere near a woman at a low ebb).
I'll simply say that Mrs S regrets going on HRT - even though it apparently resolved most of her symptoms - due to the fact that she was later diagnosed with breast cancer. The (additional) risks are small, but not zero. The cancer has been dealt with but there's no way she would ever consider HRT again. I think a couple of her friends have also stopped HRT recently.
HRT is very definitely a decision that you need to take an informed choice on. I know women who really rate it, others who have never touched it. Risk run both ways in that menopause untreated can lead to ostoporesis and other issues but HRT does increase your breast cancer risk
I don’t normally disagree with TJ but …. menopause doesn’t need ‘treating’ it’s not a disease, it’s a perfectly natural transition in a woman’s life. Osteoporosis isn’t a given if you keep on top of diet & the right sort of (weight bearing) exercise. The 2002 WHI study that originally suggested a link between HRT & increased breast cancer risk was hugely flawed but the coverage at the time meant that the use of HRT fell massively out of fear when many women could have benefitted.
As I mentioned over on the women’s forum there’s a mass of useful info out there now to help navigate perimenopause … which is actually what is being talked about above … and then menopause which is the point where a woman has been without her period for a year.
Useful books include Perimenpause Power by Maisie Hill & Lara Briden’s Hormone Repair Manual. If you understand what’s actually going on it’s waaay easier to cope 😀
Old joke.. why do husband's die before their wives.... because they want to.
Slightly more serious view, based upon my experience and watching friends i think a lot of husband's are simply not fit for purpose after a certain age, kids leaving, mortgages being paid off... i know that the partner my wife needs for the latter part of her life simply doesn't exist in me. My aspergers driven work ethic and ability to get stuff done simply no longer has a value. I understand and accept this but i can't morph into the person she needs. So this will end badly. Menopause is amplifying all of this, the level of irrational thought, emotional reaction to a mug being in the wrong place in the diswasher, underpinned by procrastination is something to behold.
Just to add i have diagnosed aspergers which my wife thinks is a choice i have made rather than something i can do little about, all i do is keep my gob shut most of the time.
Fair enough ART. clumsy use of words
@oldmanmtb You're not wrong, I'm currently trying to transition to the husband needed for the next stage of our lives. Some of it is easy, other bits require quite a lot of concentration on my part. I'm a (flawed) work in progress, though there's always bikes and trails to escape to in extremis.
Just to add i have diagnosed aspergers which my wife thinks is a choice i have made rather than something i can do little about, all i do is keep my gob shut most of the time.
@oldmanmtb2 in a sea of tough posts, this has jumped out at me. Feeling your pain, I hope you both can find a way through this.
What husband do they want/need now that you don't think you fulfill?
emotional reaction to a mug being in the wrong place in the diswasher
The male menopause is real then?
Osteoporosis isn’t a given if you keep on top of diet & the right sort of (weight bearing) exercise
No amount of weight bearing exercise or keeping on top of diet will stop post menopausal bone loss. You can limit the damage but bone loss will still happen. For some women osteoporosis is a given.
The 2002 WHI study that originally suggested a link between HRT & increased breast cancer risk was hugely flawed but the coverage at the time meant that the use of HRT fell massively out of fear when many women could have benefitted.
I would argue the most flawed/biased studies are those that state there is no link. Anyhow 21 years on, something up to date:
So if you had a family history of both breast cancer and osteoporosis what would you do, ART?
We have a thread in which some men seem very keen on putting women on a treatment for men's convenience. I think women should be left to make their own decisions about what is best for themselves without interference from men and apply that strictly to my own couple. Not keen on the pill - condoms and calcualtions. Not keen on HRT - lube, vitamin D, lots of walking, tolerance and love.
What type of husband.. well one that is emotionally connected to each feeling negative or positive that she has, being aware of all the micro issues in life that impact her happiness (ref mug in dishwasher) one who will listen but never challenge, disagree, offer opinion and simply nods. A husband that should be on hand/available to sort all problems (even when there is no soloution that supports her wishes) and whose advice/opinion is not valid or required. An expectation that i will take aĺl critism on an hourly basis of my poor performance in respect to all the above. Above all else endure the procrastination about the location of furnture, plant, what colour of paint etc etc etc
What type of husband.. well one that is emotionally connected to each feeling negative or positive that she has, being aware of all the micro issues in life that impact her happiness (ref mug in dishwasher) one who will listen but never challenge, disagree, offer opinion and simply nods. A husband that should be on hand/available to sort all problems (even when there is no soloution that supports her wishes) and whose advice/opinion is not valid or required. An expectation that i will take aĺl critism on an hourly basis of my poor performance in respect to all the above. Above all else endure the procrastination about the location of furnture, plant, what colour of paint etc etc etc
Without wanting to state the obvious or derail the thread, that doesn't sound entirely reasonable
Or like it has much to do with the menopause as stated by oldmanmtb2 himself on the previous page.
Well it seems reasonable to someone in our House.
We have a thread in which some men seem very keen on putting women on a treatment for men’s convenience. I think women should be left to make their own decisions about what is best for themselves without interference from men and apply that strictly to my own couple.
Can't disagree with that. Nothing to add to the discussion except I had to take HRT from my mid-30's and really there was very little in the way of trusted information. Wish I'd stopped it sooner/not taken it all, hey ho. On a serious note, it does concern me that it's being touted as the Holy Grail.
Once again, some people on here are describing a toxic relationship, not the menopause or peri-menopause.
IME, the issue with HRT and cancer risk are twofold:
First is that it's being promoted as a panacea in some parts, when it's not, and some women really aren't suitable for it, because of the cancer risk.
Second, it's more about how women would feel if they then developed cancer. The increased risk is low, but the cancers involved (breast, ovarian and to a lesser extent endometrial) are relatively common. They are treatable in many cases, and much more so than they were even 20 years ago, however the treatments themselves are still pretty brutal to go through, and quite often make the menopause seem like a walk in the park, to quote one of my patients. Unfortunately some women then blame themselves retrospectively for making the (rational at the time) choice to have HRT.
True about toxic relationships, i think the menopause may just surface a lot of issues.
<p style="text-align: left;">It's difficult (particularly for aspergers) to know what amount of tolerance and understanding to show and more difficult to know when to walk away. For people like me i struggle to accept or have empathy (being honest) with another human who will not take what i see as simple practical steps to improve their well being. Yes i know this is an Aspie viewpoint.</p>
I don't think that is an Asperger's point of view actually, especially if it's impacting on your own mental health.
It is completely reasonable, that if someone is engaging in behaviour that actively harms your well-being, to ask them to stop.
If they will not do so, then you either have to decide whether you can tolerate it, or leave.
To decide whether you can tolerate it, it helps to have some pre-decided criteria. An example may be, if I find myself dreading/avoiding going home, then it is time to leave.
What I was trying to say in my clumsy way earlier was that taking HRT must and can only be that womans individual decision based on good information. there are factors that work both ways. I know women whose lives have been transformed by taking it. I know women who didn't take it and are happy with that.
some women then blame themselves retrospectively for making the (rational at the time) choice to have HRT.
This is where Mrs S is at. As with other treatments, once started it is also difficult to stop, because you fear a resumption of the systems.
On relationships, I don't recognise much, if any, of what's being described above so it's definitely not a given.
