as she is under the age of consent has he not set himself up for a statutory rape charge??
as she is under the age of consent has he not set himself up for a statutory rape charge??
Just for holding hands? 😯
Slightly OT, but as a man in my early 30's I recently tried to chat up a nice young lady in her early 20's.
We had pretty much [b]nothing[/b] in common, soon after she said "Huh, who TF is Tom Selleck?!" (don't ask!) I realised that there was already a generational gap between us 🙁
Sad for all involved, and I just can't see why he'd do it TBH. Hope she gets back home safely though really.
We had pretty much nothing in common, soon after she said "Huh, who TF is Tom Selleck?!" (don't ask!) I realised that there was already a generational gap between us
Pmsl seriously that is funny.
Slightly OT, but as a man in my early 30's I recently tried to chat up a nice young lady in her early 20's.
We had pretty much nothing in common, soon after she said "Huh, who TF is Tom Selleck?!" (don't ask!) I realised that there was already a generational gap between us
Sad for all involved, and I just can't see why he'd do it TBH. Hope she gets back home safely though really.
You used a reference to Tom Selleck as a chat up line and wonder why it didn't work out?
A friend of mine has been married to one of her former teachers, 12 years her senior, for 20 odd years now. The party line has always been that nothing happened till after she'd left school after her A levels.
Abuse of trust is clearly wrong, if it is destined to be a "proper" relationship then they should have had the sense to wait till it was legal before eloping
That said, two or three of the kids I was at school with had relationships with teachers, think most waited till the 6th form, and the laws weren't as strict back then about abuse of trust.
I blame the guy who looked exactly like a slighty overweight Tom Selleck who walked past. Curse him AND his (awesome) 1980's style moustache
She is a minor and so all responsibility falls on the teacher in my opinion.
He could have CHOSEN to seek another job if it was just this girl he had a 'problem' with. He could have CHOSEN to give up teaching if he felt that he could not resist his illegal and immoral urges. Instead, he CHOSE to conduct an inappropriate relationship. No amount of pleading that 'this is different from other cases' or 'because I fancy myself as a bit of an artist this sort of thing is more excusable' can make any difference to the fact that he CHOSE to od this. By our actions are we judged.
The risk now is that there is no incentive for him to come back and bring her with him - at the very least he is looking at life on a register and no career and no wife. At worst is a spell inside as a world-famous nonce.
As for her, when you are 15 you don't think about the future. You don't think 'people will be wary of me when they find out who I am', you don't think there will be anyone other than the boy/girl you are infatuated with at that point - that is why elders in positions of power over minors simply have to act responsibly. Her life is not going to be so great either after this. She cannot change school because everyone now knows who she is - it will always be there. I hope she can make a shift back to just being a kid for while before she actually becomes an adult for real. Childhood seems to be getting shorter and shorter.
The teacher should not be apologised for by anybody. If you CHOOSE to commit a crime then tough.
I do concur that the context of the relationship is not one of equals, he is obviously not mature for a responsible position, she is just a young girl/woman , who is more than likely infatuated, but the ott reactions say more about our society than some like to admit.
My impression of him from his crooning, blogging and appearance is that he hasn't managed to get rid of his own sixth-form mindset, which might help explain how he has somehow rationalised this as acceptable.
I feel sorry for both the girl and his poor wife. Not much sympathy for him.
Saw some film footage of him on the news singing and I wonder if he sings "Don't Stand So Close To Me" when he's on stage?
And children mature so quickly these days - become sexualised so early, make up, tight revealing clothes. 15 year olds now are very different from when I was 15.
Further, life with her parents may be horrible, she may be getting abused at home. There's undoubtedly more to this than meets the eye, and I wouldn't start off by calling him a nonce. .
What would you call a male teacher who elopes to a foreign country with an under age pupil from his school? Peadophile is the usual description ( AKA NONCE).
...has he not set himself up for a statutory rape charge??
I think the age at which the law states a girl can't give her consent (which is entirely different to the 'age of consent') is 13 and below.
Peadophile is the usual description (
Legal definition: Someone ‘adult’ who finds ‘children’ (i.e. humans under the arbitrary legal age of consent in any country – so anything from under 12 to under 21) sexually attractive. Under this definition I’m fairly sure the vast majority of people (asexuals excluded) have at some time or another been a paedophile.
Correct definition: Someone ‘adult’ who finds ‘children’ (i.e. pre-pubescent humans…because to have sexual feelings for someone incapable of breeding would be unnatural?) sexually attractive. Under this definition I’m fairly sure the vast majority of people (asexuals excluded) HAVE NOT at some time or another been a paedophile.
paedophilia refers to pre pubescent children.
Nonce is a generic term for any sex offender would also include child killers etc
Peadohfile for your info-- oh - one of them nonce things...
who rattled your cage 😉 Did someone blow the horn of gore ?
rudebwoy - Member
Peadohfile for your info-- oh - one of them nonce things...who rattled your cage Did someone blow the horn of gore ?
Trolling/or do you condone child abuse and rape?. if it's the latter you should be locked up with the likes of huntley and all of his perverted ilk.
Correct definition: Someone ‘adult’ who finds ‘children’ (i.e. pre-pubescent humans…because to have sexual feelings for someone incapable of breeding would be unnatural?) sexually attractive. Under this definition I’m fairly sure the vast majority of people (asexuals excluded) HAVE NOT at some time or another been a paedophile.
I think you meant included that time
rudebwoy - Member
Peadohfile for your info-- oh - one of them nonce things...
who rattled your cage Did someone blow the horn of gore ?Trolling/or do you condone child abuse and rape?. if it's the latter you should be locked up with the likes of huntley and all of his perverted ilk.
Humour Fail.. read your original spelling, oh and there was a :wink:but you chose to edit that out
I don't think it's unreasonable either, and as I said, I can quite see how a teacher could and should lose his or her job for it. What I can't understand is why it is a criminal offence.A 21 year old teacher could meet a 17 year old girl in a nightclub. They both quite fancy each other, and as long as shes not a pupil at his school, they can fool around with each other to their hearts' content and no-one would bat an eyelid. If she is a pupil at his school, he could go to prison for doing what they both happily consent to doing. It seem a bit draconian.
But they're different contexts entirely because the teacher is not in a position of special responsibility and the pupil is not specially vulnerable to him. It's different between having sex with a psychiatrist and having sex with your psychiatrist.
soon after she said "Huh, who TF is Tom Selleck?!" (don't ask!) I realised that there was already a generational gap between us
Mate, Tom Selleck was yesterday's man and past his prime even when you were growing up.
I think the age at which the law states a girl can't give her consent (which is entirely different to the 'age of consent') is 13 and below.
I think you're a bit confused. Perhaps you can elaborate.
I think you'd all be a little surprised at how prevalent this type of thing is in secondary schools. I can't think of a school that I've worked in that hasn't regularly had to deal with this complex issue.
Although regardless of the nature, it's fundamentally wrong. A teacher in a position of care and responsibility who engages in an emotional, physical or sexual relationship with a student is using their position in said childs life as an 'in', if you'll excuse the pun. It is an abuse.
All I can say is hes an adult. If he couldnt tune out the 'interest' as a part of the job then hesgot something else going on in his head. How can you find immature school girls even vaguely appealling.
I think you'd all be a little surprised at how prevalent this type of thing is in secondary schools. I can't think of a school that I've worked in that hasn't regularly had to deal with this complex issue.
Sounds like it was unusually prevalent at that particular school, they've already had one teacher jailed for grooming and having sex with pupils in 2009, and allowed a retired priest to stay on as governor despite 38 charges of child abuse to his name (he goes on trial next month). :/
I think you all ought to stop accusing this chap of rape, you don't know any of the facts yet, it could be platonic of course.
I think you all ought to stop accusing this chap of rape, you don't know any of the facts yet, it could be platonic of course.
This is a fair point.
However unlikely it may be that that there isn't one, there is no proof of a sexual relationship.
I had a good think back to my schooldays last night, (ancient history)- and remember how some of the girls seemed very well developed for their age, not only physically but mentally. There were a couple in my year who as we got into our mid teens were to all intents and purposes'young women' --one had a much older boyfriend(he worked), the other had a real crush on the geography teacher, i think he resisted, but i could imagine a less mature/weaker person succumbing to her charms.
None of this seemed scandalous at the time, (early 70's) sure there were some s****s and stuff, but that was all.
Today the climate seems to have changed, with less tolerance and more condemning the default setting for many.This is not to defend or chastise his actions, whatever they are, just that its never a simple black or white issue .
There is a 21 year gap between me and my wife, we were both adults when we met(she was anyway) thirteen years on we have two spirited daughters, a loving family and good friends.
This is a not the downfall as civilisation, just an unusual affair,yes there are issues of inequality but as for as we can tell she went willingly, he may just be a 15 year old trapped in a man's body 😉
and yet the school did nothing? it is a church school though i suppose they just covered it up as normal
It's a C of E school, not what you call particularly religious. I went to one and all it meant in practice is going to church for easter and christmas. Didn't even do any religious studies until the mockery that is RE in secondary school.
A friend of mine taught at a catholic school in London with more than its fair share of teacher-pupil "interaction" as well as teachers allegedly grooming pupils for friends. They also had the entirely predictable priest child-abuse issues (one fairly recent one too).
It does seem to be a fairly basic fact of human beings that if you put people in authority over others, sooner or later things will happen that abuses the trust put in place.
No I totally disagree. Even back 'then' immature schoolboys like ourselves KNEW things weren't right. For instance some teachers stood and 'made sure' you all washed yourselves properly in the showers. Taking too much of an interest that everything was washed. It was uncomfortable. Then there was the female butch PE teacher who took too much attention of the young girls and we later found out she went out with girls 'magically' who had just left the school/turned 16 etc etc. The girls didn't like it but what could you say to adults? All we could do was talk about it- yes there were chinese whispers but there were all first account/group conversations as well. When you are minor's its very difficult to challenge authority/what to do etc so it stays unpassed on- when you were circa 14 would you have gone straight to your Head Master with such things?
I doubt much has changed, albeit nowadays parents probably question/are more paranoid so ASK more and listen to their children?
Ontop of all this (and the sad part) is those innocent teachers who have immature, spiteful children making complaints purely to land the teacher in trouble. That is the sad part (for me).
A few possible offences:
Section 2 Child abduction (by person not connected to child).
Carries max 7 years.
Abuse of position of trust, S.16 Sexual Offences Act.
Carries max 5 years
Various sexual activity with a child offences depending on whether penetration occurred but typically carrying max 14yrs.
Section 15 grooming (meeting with intention of sexual activity) carries max 10 years.
A previous poster is half-right in that a child under 13 cannot consent. Sex with a 14/15yr old girl who consented is sexual activity with a child, sex with a girl under 13 is rape as she cannot give consent in law.
BBC News have interviewed a woman who had an affair with a teacher and 'became seriously anorexic for 10 years' as [part of] the negative fall out.
I guess if I keep watching I will see the interview with someone (in the interests of balance) who fell in love with their teacher, got married, stayed in love, and is still happily married?
... but that wouldn't be very sensational would it?
who fell in love with their teacher, got married, stayed in love, and is still happily married?
Children should learn their life lessons with other children. Someone with more experience can cohere, guide and manipulate thus keeping someone hooked. Whereas a relationship with another immature fizzles out, leads to a new, then the child in question learns about themselves and matures without hinderous...or interference.
I'm more inclined to think a child who sees an older person becomes more cynical in their outlook in life as a result.
Hora, all these things you say are examples of a distorted society, repression comes out in many forms, in a healthy society these things just would not happen, they would never get to that stage, but that is not possible under a system built upon inequality, exploitation.
... but that wouldn't be very sensational would it?
They are probably more concerned with the potentially negative and harmful consequences to a child, than situations that have resulted in harmless consequences. Which seems very reasonable to me.
Slightly OT however I watched a South Park episode once that featured NAMBLA. I didn't realise that NAMBLA is REAL. FFS.
I know its a bit OT, but in many parts of the world girls are married off at 14, don't hear screams of institutional paedophilia, of course cultural norms are very different, but these are all human constructs.
In some states of america you could get a long prison sentence for engaging in oral sex, yet go to california and some get paid to do it on camera.......
I don't think it's unreasonable either, and as I said, I can quite see how a teacher could and should lose his or her job for it. What I can't understand is why it is a criminal offence.A 21 year old teacher could meet a 17 year old girl in a nightclub. They both quite fancy each other, and as long as shes not a pupil at his school, they can fool around with each other to their hearts' content and no-one would bat an eyelid. If she is a pupil at his school, he could go to prison for doing what they both happily consent to doing. It seem a bit draconian.
But they're different contexts entirely because the teacher is not in a position of special responsibility and the pupil is not specially vulnerable to him. It's different between having sex with a psychiatrist and having sex with your psychiatrist.
I agree about the difference of context between the two situations, and, as I have said, abusing a position of special responsibility should lead to the loss of that position, i.e. you should be fired and probably never employed in a similar position again.
However, I don't think it should be a criminal offence to have a consensual sexual (or indeed, non-sexual) relationship with someone who is deemed by law to be capable of giving that consent.
Obviously, in this particular case, the girl's below the age of consent anyway so my point doesn't apply.
It's more than a bit OT rudebwoy, it's completely OT. Long prison sentences for engaging in oral sex in the US has absolutely nothing to do with rules governing teacher-pupil relationships.
A 21 year old teacher could meet a 17 year old girl in a nightclub.
Totally different in the context. The teacher (regardless of age) is seen as (hopefully) in a position of authority and to an extent power over the boy or girl in the classroom. Going to school is either seen as boring, annoying or daunting - its entering the building etc.
Someone seeing someone they fancy in a dark night club is a totally different scenario and they wouldn't 'fall' for that person in the same way if it was prolonged, over time and marking their work, complimenting them on their homework etc..
In some states of america you could get a long prison sentence for engaging in oral sex.
No you couldn't 🙄
Ernie, my point was these are all 'rules' as you call them, made by people, that they differ to staggering degrees depending on which part of this planet you happen to find yourself is my thrust......
Totally different in the context. The teacher (regardless of age) is seen as (hopefully) in a position of authority and to an extent power over the boy or girl in the classroom. Going to school is either seen as boring, annoying or daunting - its entering the building etc.Someone seeing someone they fancy in a dark night club is a totally different scenario and they wouldn't 'fall' for that person in the same way if it was prolonged, over time and marking their work, complimenting them on their homework etc..
I know, as I said above.
I'll put it simply. We all agree (I think) that it is wrong for a teacher to have a relationship with a pupil, even it is is a consensual one (and I'm talking pupils over 16).
Is it so wrong that the teacher should lose their job? I think so.
Is it so wrong that the teacher should not be able to teach again? I think probably.
Is it so wrong that the teacher should go to prison? I think not.
Over 16 - I agree.
This is part of the problem, these lines in the sand called rules, at what age are you responsible? some are when young, some never. In holland they take a more pragmatic view, they judge each case on its merits, notwithstanding some basic tenets, the rest is a very subjective area
I don't bloody know. It seems teachers can't do right for doing wrong. One minute they want them to work longer hours,. The next they're conducting a witch-hunt because this guys been kind enough with his time to help this poor girl out, who was probably just getting a bit behind with her French GCSE coursework.
I wish they'd make their minds up
4 pages and nobody has mentioned her mother's ridiculous hair! I just wanted to snip that silly dangly fringe bit off!
And what is it about people from that certain rung of the social ladder - they love undignified public outpourings of emotion, don't they!
