[Closed] Meetingtrackworld - unreasonable work request?

Unreasonable probably not, is it ill judged then possibily. It never unreasonable to ask the question, as long as you are prepared for people to answer honestly and to disagree with you. Personally I would not have problem with it, but for others it could be very disruptive to family life. The risk I see in such situations is that such people end up being subconsciously and unfairly discriminated against in future for not attending such types of events.

I don't see why "out of normal working hours" necessarily has to mean "unpaid", esp if you're paid by the hour.

konabunny - Member
I don't see why "out of normal working hours" necessarily has to mean "unpaid", esp if you're paid by the hour.

But that's the point KB. He's not getting paid. It's in his time.

We used to have team meetings once a month, always arranged early in the morning, we work 7-7, 4 on 4 off shifts. Three people out of the five lived local, within 2 miles, the other two had a 30 mile and a 50 mile commute each way. We always held the meeting when the people with the long commute were at work. This then got changed to random days at 5pm. So the long commuters had a 1 to 1.5 hour commute each way, to attend a meeting for 2 hours. At the end of day which disrupts they whole day off.

It got sacked off when it was suggested by the 7 day workers that Saturday or Sunday was the convenient day to hold the meetings. The Monday to Friday workers were "I'm not coming in to work on the weekend, that's my time".

Unless it was vitally important that you attend OP, and you are getting paid, or time off in lieu, then I'd be busy that evening. The unpaid extra hours culture has gone too far, people are acting like mugs.

I left house at 6:30am testerday, got home at 9:10pm.
I do tjis. It's called work.
I don't get overtime. I get some time in lieu, when I can fit it in.
I get paid bobbins, working for a charity.

Man up.

Then you are silly, a one off, meet a deadline and can take the time off later, then okay, if it's a regular thing.....I go to work to be paid, it's not a hobby.

Unless it was vitally important that you attend OP, and you are getting paid, or time off in lieu, then I'd be busy that evening. The unpaid extra hours culture has gone too far, people are acting like mugs.

^^This.

Work/life balance is the most important thing.

I work for a big multinational, Devil of a company, even they call the meetings late in the afternoon and will normally offer a few beers afterwards for people to have a bit of a social get together.

But that's the point KB. He's not getting paid. It's in his time.

This is a battle we are having in our "family friendly" employer at the moment where they keep scheduling stuff at night and then offering warm white wine. I don't want your booze, I want to be at home.

I used to have an employer who'd pull stunts like this - usually because we were all too busy to attend meetings during our notional (but always exceeded) 40 hour week.

They paid me peanuts, but expected "commitment", which meant that I should be contactable at all times, even when on holiday.

I handed in my notice, did my utmost to ensure the handover was complete but they decided I was persona non-grata and let me go after two weeks and without appointing a successor. The logic being that my workload would be evenly distributed around my department.

Not surprisingly, six months later it all went toes up.

My advice - find another job where you're treated like a human being.

More irritated at the takeout thing. Could at least get some decent catering done.

I'm entirely indoctrinated after 20 years in the military, should this have a smiley after it?

konabunny - Member

But that's the point KB. He's not getting paid. It's in his time.

No, I agree entirely, that's my point. If it's important enough to call a meeting about (and there's some valid reason why it can't be scheduled in normal working hours), then it's important enough to pay the workers to attend it! If it's not that important, you probably don't need to have the meeting

Sorry KB. I read your post wrong.

(BullshitBingo) "We're pulling the duck in the same row" (/BullshitBingo)

No, I should apologise for not expressing myself clearly enough.

Still, let's have a learning moment from this suboptimal delivery

I work in consultancy and my last employer would have the odd evening meeting as impossible to get everyone otherwise. They provided beer and snacks, I was happy enough to go.

Are you getting beer?

I know we all do it (the overtime) but it's a really bad culture in the UK for this...many other countries wouldn't ask you to do it and employees would tell them to f off..

It's capatalism...you sell your sevices to the highest bidder...why would you give your sevices for free? We don't get free Mars bars in the shop so why are we (employees) expected to give our services for free....because we fear losing our jobs when the next employee puts in the overtime.....

There is a balance to be had. Of course you don't want to spend your free time working but it also makes sense that if you all attend meetings in work time, the company will not earn any money and will fold.

Somewhere in the middle of those 2 is a happy medium, I am happy to attend the odd thing out of hours but I also expect to leave a bit early on a Friday when I am going away, WFH is the kid is sick etc.

Wondering how many of the responses fit with the commonly suggested STW Audi/Woodburner/Santa Cruz middle management demographic

Honda Civic (14 years old)/Back boiler with a 70's style gas fire/Orange 5 (2008) and IT middle management.

I feel like I failed at life 😉

Cheers all, this morning has been interesting. It's not a popular move and possibly a final straw for a few. Especially given than one senior manager has expressed the opinion that people must attend but has himself found child care issues that mean he'll have to dial in from home.

[An amusing but rude term so the Moderators have deleted it] was brought up as the topical insult for that one, from the bloke who had arranged to work from home weeks ago as he has someone replacing windows and is now being informed management's lack of forward planning is not an excuse.

I had been keeping an eye on the job pages but I think this is really the nudge to do more than look. Shame as I actually like the work, immediately colleagues are decent and it's close to home.

There are bigger problems in the world and it's not like I work for Mike Ashley or some similar utter twunt.

Don't normally mind this kind of thing, worked in companies where you had a monthly breakfast meeting, turn up an hour early, free bacon butty, coffee and a team briefing.

Meeting invite has come through now with no details, no agenda, no info on food, requests for dietry needs or any other of the usual nicities you'd expect. Common opinion in the office suggests that the passive aggressive Tentative will be the popular response until someone nails their opinion up.

Never know, there could be an EMEA Sales Director vacancy going imminently 🙂

There is a balance to be had
...
I am happy to attend the odd thing out of hours but I also expect to leave a bit early on a Friday when I am going away, WFH is the kid is sick etc.

Absolutely. The door has to swing both ways or not at all.

For all my "not working for free" comments earlier, in practice I'm quite happy to work back an extra half hour if I'm embroiled in something, but conversely if I roll in half an hour late the next day because I've to take my OH to an appointment then I'm allowed that flexibility and no-one bats an eyelid. It all evens out.

I would only do unpaid overtime if there was a tight deadline that I was rushing to meet. Planned unpaid overtime is a pisstake.

It`s fairly clear-cut to me,if you are not being paid for it then why feel pressure to attend ?
Had a similar issue recently when Operations director suggested that as I now run the Branch alone its only right that I become the call-out guy for the Alarm etc but of course they couldnt pay me anything extra apart from overtime if I do get called-out.My response was that maybe they should advertise this new nightshift post as a seperate position with complete lack of monetary reward and to let me know how many people apply for it.

batfink - Member
I would suggest that you go along: you don't want to be the guy that is unwilling to give a couple of extra hours for what this bloke seems to consider important.

This is the problem. I used to work at a place where we'd regularly (ended up being 3 or 4 times a week) be kept back to discus trivial and largely inconsequential problems after our normal working hours. Only 20-40 mins, but a PITA anyway, and it could easily have been done in working hours.

I just started making sure I had a real reason I had to leave at 6:00 ready every single time. After I'd done it a few times, everybody else did it too. Nobody wanted to be the first to be seen to shirk off. Luckily they were massively underpaying me as they'd taken me on at a ludicrously low rate in the height of the recession, then given me no pay rises for 4 years so I DNGAF.

Funny thing is the meetings never moved to working hours, they just stopped.

Pop round his yard at 3 am p1ssed up with a kebab and offer him food and a chance to build some **** synergys? Problem with people like that is it all starts off as a novelty but ends up as the norm that everyone gets used to and before you know it the contracted hours have suddenly increased by 5 hours a week unpaid.

Fk. That. C0ckw0mble.

but it also makes sense that if you all attend meetings in work time, the company will not earn any money and will fold.

It makes no sense at all. Meetings are work, therefore they should occur in work time. If the company cannot afford to run them, then it is not a viable company.

"Sounds like a one-off and an opportunity to really build some synergies. It's low hanging fruit for you so you should really attend."

If anyone ever says this to you a) hoof them in the slats b) own them with bombers c) tell them $^%^ )(*& !"£$%^ !"£$% you complete "£$%^&*()

My wife on the other hand, who is excellent at corporate stuff, says suck it up and learn whose arse to kiss. "Take one for the team"

If you are an EMEA sales director and are objecting to one OOH meeting then you are working in cloud cuckoo land.

Maybe its all a ruse, and he's something else in mind. Something he wasn't allowed to talk about...

[img] [/img]

Maybe its all a ruse, and he's something else in mind. Something he wasn't allowed to talk about

It's going to be an old fashioned rave where you get to take your shirt off and smoke tabs on the dance floor?

It's going to be an old fashioned rave where you get to take your shirt off and smoke tabs on the dance floor?

Dear gods I hope not, have you seen the average IT office worker?

I have wondered about the ideas in the other thread on foods for noxious emissions. If we have to go, make it unpleasant 🙂

getting us to sing the company anthem in our own time was not great

WHAT THE HELL?! Do companies actually have these?!

makes sense that if you all attend meetings in work time, the company will not earn any money and will fold.

Company anthem? Gotta be a 'Mercian company. Amiright?

we had a company (Panasonic) song. thankfully we didn't ever have to actually sing it (here - not so sure about the guys seconded to Osaka !!)

I may earn a distinctly average salary, but at least its a salaried job where the culture is if you're asked to work, you are paid for it, as overtime. The odd hour at the end of the day is recorded as flex if unplanned.

Most of the team would start early for a team meeting if breakfast is on offer, but an out of hours unpaid meeting? You'd be heckled out of the room and it would be talked about as 'remember that time' for years to come!

The work all hours culture is fine if thats what you want to do, but when it becomes 'the culture' within an workplace, it is damaging to those that want to have any sort of life during the working week but stay at work for fear of being seen as slacking off or not 'furthering their career'. There is no shame in leaving work at the correct time!

Especially given than one senior manager has expressed the opinion that people must attend but has himself found child care issues that mean he'll have to dial in from home.

Holy leadership batman!

Surely now the rest of you can dial in from home too while actually doing something useful.

Not even an offer of time off in lieu?
If not compensated in money or time, why go?
I know my current employer wouldn't try it without the offer of one or the other (but still wouldn't expect a great turn out). Work meetings are in work time and social gatherings are optional.

A previous employer was aware of how mercenary those of us working for him were. Would need at least 6 hours pay to get out of bed for something admin based. Weren't adverse to anti-social hours, he paid for all the time we weren't at home, even whilst we slept. Used to cause the clocking in machine to melt down when you clocked out 3 days after you clocked in. Work was seasonal and paid hourly, only the other foreman was full time and salaried. He would take 3 months off to balance his hours.

Finally, for those working over their contacted hours, you are denying work to others, if you are doing 60 hour weeks because that is what it takes to do the job, they need to take on someone extra. More people employed, more people getting into the industries, more people paying into the system. Step too far maybe? Too idealistic?