Materialism vs Good Enough = boredom

Have a word with yourself.

This is a common issue in our society.  You are taught to strive to earn money to buy stuff.  You get to your middle years and find that this does not satisfy you.

For me the answer is not to care about "stuff" but about friendships, experiences, etc.  Happiness is not found in material goods

No, I think it is a thing about how we are wired.
I cannot relate to people I know who are really materialistic - for whom launch of a New Model requires you to bow at the alter of materialism and marketing.

It's never about the destination it's always the journey, you just need to get on a different train.

Dunno what you're talking about mate, I'm 43, bored at work in my IT engineering job. I'm buzzing today cos I manualled the table top at the pump track yesterday.

My lads getting quicker as well

I have a surfeit of negative excitement if you'd like to trade?

That (the sorted life/mancave/kids/car etc) all sounds good to me, and probably like many on here, that's something we'd all like to achieve, but are  some way off for many reasons. But I understand the need for excitement, so best seek it on the bike/other sports if you need the hit instead of upgrading material things.

Ultimately stuff isn't that interesting, it's what you do with it.

**That's obviously for those of us lucky enough not to find money, food and stuff a constant stress**

I’m going to say it once more - I thought it was clear in the OP - before these descends into another character assassination this is not about me, just about the principle I described.

For me the answer is not to care about “stuff” but about friendships, experiences, etc. Happiness is not found in material goods

I have found this to be the answer for me too. It is very easy to buy things and spend more money than you have.

It took a bit of effort to move into this mindset though, and it does seem to be going against the cultural grain to a degree.

Coke and high-class hookers is the answer! 🙂

Engage in some charity if you have spare money for nicer things but won’t feel any benefit from them. We went to a cash for kids event last night and everyone brought a present for a child that would otherwise not get one. In total I think over 25,000 presents were donated so that’s 25,000 kids that would otherwise be waking up on Christmas Day with nothing.

Why spend a fortune swapping a 320d for a 330d if you feel no excitement for that when the money could be putting something under the tree for an otherwise forgotten kid who will definitely feel the excitement from it?

Op - you talk in the serenity thread about not taking the bait based on responses on another thread that you started about winter flu and behaviours, yet you seem to need to keep on planting bait by starting threads that are going to lead to 'character assassination', a phrase you seem to use often in these threads that you start.

This isn't a criticism, it's an observation.

It's certainly an interesting thing - I've hit a point where I own all the 'stuff' I need, and all the 'stuff' I want that isn't insanely expensive. I have enough, more than enough really. What I don't have is time to make use of these things, which is a conversation I'm having with my partner - work hard now maximising our pensions to retire early, or go part time for more time right now. It's a difficult choice and there isn't a right or wrong answer.

I think everybody's keen on dopamine, or "reward" generally; it just depends what an individual finds rewarding.

I reckon some are at least as dependent on stress as they are reward, or it's the satisfacton of that stress need that provides the reward for them.  I can imagine those folk will manufacture stress for themselves if there's no true stress (needing that car/watch/... for external validation is one thing but if you can turn that to internal validation then you're really cooking!).

Stressing over having no stress is probably just a version of ^ that, too - in my mind anyway

https://www.annalembke.com/dopamine-nation

Consumer Culture and Modernity -  Don Slater. Modern societies creates wants and needs that they don't need. Blah blah blah.

There is strong theory in the dopamine hit from continually being excited is like a drug.  When i say excited, that can either be the journey as murdooverthehill put it, or through other experiences in life, good or bad (often comes up in trauma cases)!  The body responds to all of these experiences, and once it has nothing else to react against there is a feeling of boredom, when in reality it is just calmness.  If you've been so used to the journey/the expereinces then you (we) may have a tendancy to insitgate excitment in other ways just to get that dopemine hit, so many instances where this happens -just starting an argument is one, affairs, buying a harley -those midlife crisis type things -not surprisingly, as it's been sad up there, there is a good chance you've materially got stuff sorted and they were the excitment -so what's next..

edit .ha -Davros just posted what i was too slowly writing about..

Everyone needs something to moan about, if you haven't got anything to moan about, moan about that!

I think you're correct in that we are somehow programmed to "improve". We each manifest this in different ways and in different goals. Finding, and retaining, a compatible life partner therefore becomes key (for those of us who want one). Even then, I think there can be internal tensions in that relationship if both are very strong-minded characters. As an example, we could have "upgraded" our house -and I mean by moving - several times as our salaries increased but we both chose not to. The result of that was the opportunity for early retirement, with no mortgage. With a different partner and different goals, we might still be working.

Could you start a rumour about you and a co-worker?

yet you seem to need to keep on planting bait

Only few you it seems.  Have a good Christmas Iain. 🙂

Yet, why does all of that acceptance and good news feel “dull”?

Becasue we're all of us soaked in a society that tells us daily that our lives would be endlessly improved by [insert product here] It's massively persuasive, all encompassing, insidious and designed to hit well observed and documented psychological triggers in our animal brains. It's really hard to fight, and like trying to give up on an addiction, feels like you're emptying your life of something that while you know is probably bad for your health, is at the same time, delicious, fun and an essential part of your life.

"May you live in interesting times."

What nickc said ^. But I think a big day out in the hills somewhere where all media is removed can be a good reset from all that stuff. Or any activity that make you present in the place and nothing else is considered. But most activities are shorter than a day. Walk or ride for a day, with company ideally, and you can clear all that crap away far better.

I think we are all (or mostly) wired up to survive first, then have kids to further our genes, then build some form of empire. Once thats done then life becomes pretty pointless unless you can focus it on joy (in whatever form it may take).

If "stuff" no longer brings you joy then you need to find and prioritise other things such as activities you like doing or investing time in things you care about.

But you must check yourself regularly and acknowledge that very few people get to this stage and for most life can be a hard slog

It's time to do a triathlon!

Is the mortgage paid off?

We cleared our mortgage years ago and we absolutely love our house, I drive and tinker 20year old paid for cars, I work but have a laissez-faire attitude to it, I own a single Seiko5 watch that I wear for everything. We have a dog but no children.

MrsRNP works 4 days a week in a artistic creative job that she absolutely loves even though it doesn't pay very well, it does allow her to run a community/social kitchen on her day off that feeds 80 - 100 people every week without cost and will do 150xthree course FOC delicious Christmas dinners again this year with gifts for the children.

We don't have any debt and are in a happy place in life but from being involved in the above with MrsRNP I do know we are lucky/fortunate and I never take that for granted.

The people who always want more, never satisified with what they have, will never be happy.

I’m going to say it once more – I thought it was clear in the OP – before these descends into another character assassination this is not about me, just about the principle I described.

You can put it in that wrapper all you like, but this is about you and how you feel. You just think (rightly) other people think or are wired the same as you. But this is still about you.

Personally, I'd be ashamed to have written that. And I'd have caught myself way, way earlier in the spiral into materialism. Yes, I own a lot of nice 'stuff', and I feel very lucky to be in that position, but it is almost all a tool to do a job. The job being to lead a good and fulfilling life of doing stuff.

A watch collection......blimey. If I ever say/type those words......

And breath...

Could I suggest a little (very) light christmas reading for you - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Humanism-Universal-lessons/dp/0349425469   maybe to start the new year with a mindful reboot of life's priorities.

Can I suggest putting everything you own on red? Should liven things up for you a bit.

But aside from being frivolous, yes I kind of get what you mean, up until 8yrs ago both my wife & I had been in single I come households where failure to get paid at the end of the month would have been pretty disastrous, but now we've got money to spare, kids are grown up & everything we need/want so life can be a bit beige at times.

It's about the journey, not the destination

"It is better to travel hopefully, than to arrive"

RLS

Talking from experience, life is about what you do, not what you have. TJ has it, friends and family are the most  dear to me and I invest my time and energy into this.

What TJ said.

I've spent years amassing stuff. Books and other media, electronics hardware, games, camping gear, board games... and for what? When I die it'll likely all go to charity or landfill.

My partner is a WFH childminder and more plastic crap arrives daily. It's like navigating the Krypon Factor assault course just to get to my shoes. She's saying "I don't know what to get you for Christmas / your Birthday" (I'm one of those people cursed with a birthday right after Christmas) and the fact of the matter is, I don't want anything. My Amazon wish list is a few of books - I do not need any more books - and practical stuff like a pair of good pliers.

What I want is experiences. Book an escape room for us. Spa day. Weekend break somewhere. One year I did a track day in an Ariel Atom. Another, I got to pilot a helicopter. Those were phenomenal gifts. No-one ever laid on their death bed going "I wish I'd done fewer things and bought more VHS cassettes."

Can't you just have an existential crisis?

Just think about the fact that at some point the Sun will collapse in on itself and then explode wiping out not just humanity (assuming humans last that long) but every piece of evidence humans ever existed.

And that's assuming we're not just a simulation being run by a particularly spiteful intergalactic incel teenager.

Interestingly, it actually makes absolutely no difference if we are 'real' or a simulation because the end result is going to be exactly the same.  Oblivion, with no one remembering any of us were ever here.

Hope this helps!

I’m going to say it once more – I thought it was clear in the OP – before these descends into another character assassination this is not about me, just about the principle I described.

@Kryton57 - I don't really recognise the principle you are describing, I see it in others, but I'm not sure I have the same, my parents definitely don't.   I have friends who seem to be chasing a very very comfortable retirement who if they stopped and looked around them would realise that they could have a very comfortable retirement that starts 5 years earlier if they stopped chasing a dream that society has created for them, or even a comfortable retirement 10 years earlier (for many of them about now).   When I look at all the people I know, the most content are often those who have very little.  Can you switch mindset?

Oh - and like RNP - paying off a mortgage and being "debt free" is a remarkably liberating thing.  It redefines good enough.

Over the last ~30 years, I think it's easy to have got carried away with the excitment of new tech and buying the latest snazzy model. But taking gaming PCs as an example, our ~10 year old i5-6600k CPU with an RX580 GPU upgrade a few years ago is still playing most games fine. Back in the noughties, I bought three new systems, because things moved on very quickly.

I think perhaps we are driven by a need to gather "stuff"  Evolution would tend to that?

Capitalism has used this and manipulated this drive so as to condition us to feel successful by the amount of stuff we have.  Sometimes like the OP folk get to a point where they have all the stuff they could ever possibly need and then start to question it all.  Sometimes folk like me just don't play that game.  Sometimes folk spend their entire lives striving to have the stuff they need

Its what makes capitalist societies work but it can also lead to much unhappiness

i don't think this is anything to do with materialism - its just having something in your life to aim for. Once something is easy, it becomes a lot less interesting. When I had almost no cash I'd be all over the latest gadgets, bike parts, etc. Now I can relatively easily afford all of that stuff, I've lost the desire to and I just buy something that'll get me by - case in point, the trail bike I ride now (as an IT middle manager) cost 60% of what the the trail bike I bought in 1999 (as a fruit picker earning £1.93 per hour) cost me - take inflation into account and thats a £6500 bike whilst earning a pittance vs a £2k bike now.

I now get joy from other things, which is ironic as I seem to spend more time working than I ever did before.

It can’t just be me , and god forbid nothing negatively exciting happens to us as a family, are we just wired to not accept the status quo? Are we really that addicted to Dopamine?

Nope - its really really common..   Both wired and conditioned to do this I believe and yes  dopamine really does work like that

I think the more,more, more drive is a part of human nature, experiences are very similar for wealthy westerners, bagging experiences is just another version of materialism. These natural instincts are being manipulated by marketing throughout our lives.

Charity or community projects for your matured needs.

Thanks for posting though.

I think perhaps we are driven by a need to gather “stuff”  Evolution would tend to that?

I think I'd be cautious of evolutionary "just so" stories. I think Capitalism shapes our brains, the way that it drives particular ideologies; individualism, competition, materialism, these are all the 'invisible hand' of a consumer world. It's easy enough to see them as deep-seated elements in our societal fabric. Overlay them onto an impressionable and mailable brain, and voila...

bagging experiences is just another version of materialism

It certainly can be.  But taking pleasure in simple things is not.

I mentioned it briefly but having a dog has been the best mindfulness / mental well-being, and after marrying MrsRNP is the best thing I've done in life.

Trying to give Bert the best life I can give him has taken us on some amazing walks and adventures. They are not necessarily expensive, long distance or Insta worthy and you have to be open to the glimpses that nature gives you but they have been fabulous moments that I've shared with a dog that having a Rolex on my wrist or walking back to a shiny new car wouldn't have contributed to the experience.

I wouldn't swop or sell these experiences for any amount of money.

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