@northwind - Or it might give you a false sense of security that it would work the way you expect? Bike analogy expecting only using a static manual training machine to let you flow first time on a pump track when you “really need to”? Lots of Ju Jitsu, Karate (not full contact like kyokushin), Systema and other martial arts face the same criticisms.
Training using progressive resistance is key and getting the feel for how to use them and what it feels like when applied to you.
I spent years training, doing big target stuff like arm bars, rear naked choke or reliably being able to land a jab that does something as a short guy was very hard. They have much larger margins for error than things like eye pokes, throat punches and groin strikes. Wrist locks don’t work that well for exactly the same reasons.
If you are able to, try out a BJJ or Muay Thai class if you can. You might be pleasantly surprised 😉
to be clear - what i say doesnt have to apply to every class, just my experience of Krav Maga was pretty poor..
was it the teacher, the rest of the class, the venue, the price, the class time, the time in my life etc. etc.
Which one is it that ninjas do? All about those flying kicks. Also, do you have to bring your own stars?
That would be ninjutsu.
I would cast a vote for Taijutsu. Very good workout with the stretching routine we did (juan taiso) very similar to yoga. Some very good techniques for real life situations.
I have always wondered about jiu jutsu though. While you're grappling the guy on the ground, what do you do about his mates who are showering you with kicks? Genuine question.
When we've done it we were told to avoid going to ground for the reasons above.
Run away.
If you can't, kick them in the knee or balls then run away.
A couple of years back one of our guys got jumped at a cash machine for his wallet and car keys. He was mid 40s and not in great shape, but he used Combination 4B : One in the balls, one on the nose. The cops were involved and the whole thing was caught on CCTV. They had a good laugh then let him go.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
m. tyson
any system/class without contact sparring is meaningless in the real world.
went to an aikido class once, got told off by the sensei for punching ‘the wrong way’…
@jam-bo I was gently told off by the sensei in a freshers Uni Ju Jitsu demo for actually trying to strangle him when he asked me to “strangle him properly”. He was bit surprised when I went for it and it took him a fair bit of effort to escape...
@shooterman - You probably don’t want to, but a lot of fights/attacks end up on the ground anyway. Unfortunately there also are different risks for women, which means they are more likely to be held or restrained and need to escape. Being able to throw people, counter or have better balance/situational awareness is a good thing. US military combatives program was created by the Gracie BJJ family.
Grappling is very useful for escaping being pinned on the ground, grabbed, clinched, making space/wall walking to get back to your feet safely (exhausting and far far harder than you would expect).
This kind of went full cycle in early MMA where strikers effectively said “well I don’t need to grapple, I will just stop them from taking me down”. Cliff Notes, this approach did not go very well for them...
Have a Google on Straight Blast Gym (SBG) and Dog Brothers systems, some interesting stuff and all based on having live sparring.
Most convincing answer I’ve seen to trying to survive a knife attack is the Russian tie/waki gatame grappling based STAB system from the late Karl Tanswell (BJJ blackbelt, professional coach and human pincushion from his bouncing days).
kimura54321
Free Member@northwind – Or it might give you a false sense of security that it would work the way you expect? Bike analogy expecting only using a static manual training machine to let you flow first time on a pump track when you “really need to”?
Absolutely- same with just about any form tbh. I like the analogy, I reckon my krav classes managed to be more on the lines of "learning skills in the foam pit with the aim of being able to do it in the real world" but I've no doubt some end up being like the wooden manual machine that teaches you how to use the wooden manual machine.
Then it sounds like they were/are a nice bunch of people to train with 👍
@kimura54321 thanks for that. I wasn't trying to knock jiu justsu but it was a vulnerability in the system I had always wondered about.
Interesting topic. I studied BJJ and Wing Chun in younger years. The first for a couple of years, latter for 3-4 (on and off).
IMHO if options 1-4 are not possible, then an art that teaches you how to grapple is a very good starting point. Like judo. Many moons ago some eejit attacked my mate in a bar, said mate being a judo black belt. The guy who attacked ended up flying into a wall in an inverted state and that was that.
BJJ teaches you how to get an opponent to ground very fast and then disable them. Great in a one on one, but as posited above, fairly useless if your attacker has a group of mates intent on playing footie with your head.
Wing Chun I really liked. As most real fights are close, sweaty affairs, the format is based upon 'having a fight in a phone box,' up close and personal if you will. Emphasis is on incredible speed and sleight of hand, deflecting rather than opposing the opponent's energy and power. Never had to use it myself (I'm 6'4", a good talker and an even better runner), but I have seen it applied in real life. Again in a bar, again with an expert practitioner, who in this case was the wrong skin colour and again it was over very, very quickly.
Is Wing Chun 'better' than other arts? Don't know about that, but I'd say it is one of the best and definitely works from a practical self-defence point of view. Point to make though is as Harry and others have said above, whatever style you do, you're looking at a couple of years minimum before you're at a level where you could even think about putting it into practice!
However, best strategy is always to avoid trouble in the first place!
@shooterman - No worries, hope some bits were interesting.
I didn’t take it as a knock at all, perfectly sensible question. I might come across as a bit of BJJ fanboy but have tried other styles that were a lot of fun as well and offered things it doesn’t.
This thread has made me want to get the Thai pads out next weekend if I can persuade my mate or other half to give it a go. Been too long 😅
Started face to face last week after 15 months of training online from home.
2 lessons and a pre-Dan course in 7 days. It feels like my limbs have all been removed and put back on in the wrong order. Everyone's knuckles and feet have gone soft judging by the blood and blisters!
Fantastic to be back!
Nice one HTS. Good luck with the Dan grading
I was meant to be back last week but had a cold that I can't shift (not COVID as we've all been taking the home tests regularly). I've been chomping at the bit to get back, but hopefully be well enough for a double session on Monday.
Not Dan grading just yet. Have to do 2 pre Dan to get my 1st Kyu and another 4 for my Dan. In this for the long haul!
Not Dan grading just yet. Have to do 2 pre Dan to get my 1st Kyu and another 4 for my Dan. In this for the long haul!
Well good luck all the same. Are you back doing any contact stuff like sparring yet?
No Kumite, but we can do pads.
The Village Hall anti-bac spray and wipes were being used to clean off the blood due to split knuckles.
As someone who did karate to an international level in my younger years and some BJJ in later years, here is my take on it.
If self defense is your main objective, don't bother with any martial arts and spend the next two years getting strong. As a rough standard I would say aim for 2x bodyweight squat, 2.5x bodyweight deadlift, and 1x bodyweight overhead press.
My thinking is that presumably you are only going to be training in martial arts 2 to 3 times per week. You are only really going to be able to focus on a small subset of fighting and you won't have time to prepare for the various ways you can find yourself in a self defense type situation.
If you focus on a sport based system you'll be better prepared for one on one situations like road rage or the classic pub '**** you, nah **** you, nah **** you' type altercations.
If you focus on a self defense based system you'll be better prepared to deal with the more common multiple people melees which I've found myself involved in (any one on one I've always been able to get out of without violence).
Being really strong will help no matter what situation you find yourself in.
After a couple of years of solid weight training I would start looking at martial arts then. I found when I started BJJ I was in a beginner class with an average age that was at least 10 years below mine and I spent more time injured than not. Had I gone into that class stronger injuries would not have been nearly the issue they were.
If self defense is your main objective that would be my advice.
Being really strong will help no matter what situation you find yourself in
Interesting take, most of the good judo people I know were seriously into weight training and other exercise stuff, the marital arts part was only part of it.
It was more than turning up for a lesson twice a week, it was a complete life style.
They were technically very good,strong and stupidly fit.
We used to have interesting discussions on how a lot of people seem to have very little street smarts and situational awareness.
It's also worthwhile doing a little research on the history of the system you're thinking of taking up to establish that it will suit you.
I'm 6' 2" and heavily built. I took up an art I was interested in a few years back and really struggled as it was largely based around agility rather than power or strength.
