I was late in the other night from cycling, not mega late but I had gotten two punctures and ended up getting in the house after 11. The wife said something that made me think and it’s not something I had ever considered before. It was along the lines of ‘women wouldn’t be out that late alone’ and she means out, alone, in the dark, far from home.
Many many times I’ve under estimated the length of time it would take for a ride and found myself in the middle of no-where on a route I’ve not done before, peering at the garmin to check if I’m on the right path, one time over Gradbach I got back to the car at 12.30am! lol. When this happens I actually consider it fun, what actual harm is going to befall me? I might get a mechanical and end up walking back to the car but even out walking in the dark at 2 or even 4am, what does it matter? I can alk to the car, I’ve got a phone and money to ring for a cab if really needed. (obviously falling off alone and damaging myself is a different matter but I’m not talking about that here.)
Turns out most (every?) women feels anxious about going out alone and would never go out alone late or after dark. My wife says when she was younger even with a friends out together they would feel anxious walking back to the house from the pub or event. I dunno what I’m trying to say here, maybe just next time you’re out alone in the dark by yourself having a good time consider not everyone is able to do so.
Just tell her not to worry, you were with the other doggers.
I'm sure there are some males who avoid such behaviour due to not feeling safe.
My GF is always worried about riding through woods etc by herself even when I mansplain to her that no-one is going to be lurking in some dark, cold woods just on the off chance. I can totally appreciate though why anyone would be nervous about riding/walking through urban areas alone - although judging by what I read in the local papers, a single bloke walking alone is just as (if not more) likely to be set upon by roving packs of feral yoot.
Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.
Maybe its a perceived risk rather than a real one.
Pah! Excuses. Plenty of women out solo all over the place on adventures. Maybe the privilege is hers for having an excuse people will easily fall for to stay in rather than go put in some effort and confront her fears. If a man were to try that he'd be told to man up etc.
Yeah but as a male you were probably a violence slut that dressed a bit aggressively and deserved or were actively looking for the violence that befell you.
from the many nightrides i frequent i always find the threat of wherewolves keeps me going.
Pretty much yes.
There are loads of things I do without thinking too much, my Wife wouldn't.
It seems madness, but she has to do a little risk assessment to be alone at high risk times and places. Places she feels are high risk don't even register to me.
Some of it is personal risk aversion, but most of it not, the world seems to work differently for her than me. People just talk and act differently to her when she's alone than if I'm there.
There was an interesting thread on Twitter some time back about a husband/wife - wife was forever leaving their car empty of petrol, was a constant annoyance to him. And when it came to a head, it came out that she just didn't feel safe on forecourts, and was always worried about being harassed or attacked, and avoided filling up the car for tht reason. There's a whole other world out there from that perspective, all kinds of scenarios like the one the OP mentions, but also more everyday, seemingly innocuous ones that can be scary for some folks, especially those who have actually had experience of harassment(or worse), which makes their fears very rational. Doesn't have to be "violence" to be unpleasant or scary.
rapists and murderers lurking around every corner!
Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.
And the one thing they're not scared of, is the one thing that frightens me the most... DRIVING!
from the many nightrides i frequent i always find the threat of wherewolves keeps me going.
It's not the wherewolves you want to worry about, it's the herewolves.
Grimes summed this up quite nicely in her video for her song oblivion.
PS. If anyone knows how to embed that as a video please point me in the right direction.
Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.
Not sexual assault, or just from walking along the road.
Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.
Who said that? Apart from you.
Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.Maybe its a perceived risk rather than a real one.
Do those statistics take into account the probable fact that more men are putting themselves in those situations and more women are avoiding them (as in the OP and his wife)
I suspect not ?
I remember a Twitter thread along the lines of what would you do if the opposite sex didn't exist/weren't around for a set time period.. The men's answers were the predictable p0rn, m*sturbate, drink etc.. a huge proportion of the women answered along the lines of "Go for a late night run".. something which most guys probably take for granted..
a huge proportion of the women answered along the lines of “Go for a late night run”.. something which most guys probably take for granted..
Do these women avoid late night runs because of the statistics that show that a huge proportion of women get attacked/assaulted when out late at night? Or is it because society/media/upbringing has conditioned them think that they are not safe in these situations and there is always an attacker (man) waiting for them around every corner?
As a parent I see the same thing with paedophiles. Parents are scared to death that there are podophiles everywhere just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on their kids the second they are out of sight
joeydeacon
I remember a Twitter thread along the lines of what would you do if the opposite sex didn’t exist/weren’t around for a set time period.
Yeah, read that also. It's not a case of women being incapable or irrational, but what the OP said, that some stuff that men can take for granted just isn't the case for women.
rapists and murderers lurking around every corner!
Rings true for me. My regular night ride in winter is up into the Downs, it's not that remote but on a winter's night there is zero chance of meeting anyone and a rapist or murderer would have to wait every night for decades for a suitable victim.
I ride it. My wife won't. [1]
So is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?
And the one thing they’re not scared of, is the one thing that frightens me the most… DRIVING!
This. My wife is terrified walking the kids near water where I'd argue it would be almost impossible for them to come to any harm, yet a busy A road holds no fear for her at all yet one false move would be certain death.
Again, is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?
In an urban environment I guess it's different but I'm pretty sure men are at greater risk that women in that context. ...and even if rape is the concern do all rapists have to be heterosexual? I doubt it.
As a parent I see the same thing with paedophiles. Parents are scared to death that there are podophiles everywhere just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on their kids the second they are out of sight
This too. It's all about peados when cars and obesity are the very real danger kids actually face day in day out.
[1] I'll be honest, I am actually terrified doing the ride, but it's not a rational fear, it's a 'monsters under the bed' fear. I dread a puncture in a spooky bit.
Do these women avoid late night runs because of the statistics that show that a huge proportion of women get attacked/assaulted when out late at night? Or is it because society/media/upbringing has conditioned them think that they are not safe in these situations and there is always an attacker (man) waiting for them around every corner?
Or a stream of first hand experiences where they're made to feel unsafe and/or uncomfortable when it's not dark, and they're not alone
I was a police officer for 10 years and often patrolled alone at night so I don't think that I am in anyway a naive or particularly scaredy woman but I avoid being out alone late at night.
I don't realistically think that there is a rapist hiding and waiting in the trees on the off chance that a lone woman will appear; it's just that a woman, alone at night, seems to attract nob-heads. Should you be out by yourself at night every drunk/druggy/nob-head feels that you are clearly desperately lonely and therefore obliged to be their new best friend. Often they can be quite unpleasant and aggressive when you decide to carry on with your planned evening.
Is this male privilege being talked about a new thing.. or has it been the way since the cave men?
"UGH Gugh ugh" ="I'm not going out there alone.. there might be a big woolly mammoth!"
"Ug" = "Don't worry dear, I'll go"
Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.
Perhaps but like the OP I definitely recognise the same thing from my missus. It's so bad that in the winter she won't walk home from town at like 5:00pm, it gets dark earlier and due to one 30ish yard pedestrianised railway bridge on the route that has high sides so pedestrians can't be seen from the nearby road, apparently that's where they'll get her...
I joke that she needs to dial back on her DM reading, and that despite the news the world isn't actually full of Murderers and Rapists that only come out after the sun sets...
But fear of the post sunset world has been drummed into her at some point and she can't get past it.
I'm quite happy to be out "late" either in the countryside or in town where (statistically) I'm apparently more likely to be mugged and murdered to bits as a male.
Maybe there is a bit of "everyday sexism" at work here, where (hyperbole ahead) Boys are taught to be "brave" and not be afraid of the dark/bullies/anything and value confidence in the face of uncertainty, while girls are maybe taught to a bit more meek, cautious and that if they're out late 'something bad' will happen. Those behaviours learned as children carry on through to adulthood and worst of all get passed on to your own kids...
Again, is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?
No it more like being so (over?)confident in your own judgement and lacking in empathy, to the point where that you simply dismiss other people's concerns as being due to their irrational, fear driven nature and try to infer that they are unable to make reasonable, logical assessments of a given situation because they have a Lady Brain...
In an urban environment I guess it’s different but I’m pretty sure men are at greater risk that women in that context. …and even if rape is the concern do all rapists have to be heterosexual? I doubt it.
Are they all male (let's extend it to perpetrators of sexual assault in Scotland). I and other men I know have been subject to varying levels of unwanted attention from both men and women out and about. 3/4 of the times for me it was in a kilt, 3/4 of the time it was women. For him I only know of one specific occasion (though there had been others) and it was in a kilt, with a large number of women - but that's OK cos we're asking for it if we show a bit of knee, right?
None of these incidents occurred out in the woods, where the main risk is definitely alien abduction and monsters.
I initially read that DM as Danger Mouse...
Carry on.
I'm a 6'4 bloke. But I'm going to admit...I do get a bit freaked out in the woods alone in the dark!
But then I can't watch scary films either haha!
Most women first experience some kind of sexual assault (doesn’t have to be physical to count) before they get to secondary school. Men don’t.
Most of the women i know its the harassment or unwanted attention that they are avoiding, most men don’t even see this as a problem or worse as something real.
As a husband and father of 2 daughters (and a son) there is absolutely things my wife and girls think about every day which would not occur to me if we had not talked about it.
Where to park in the car park so it is light, does the button on the key fob open all the doors or just the drivers, how can I walk the dog avoiding that dark alleyway?
The most surprising one was one of my daughters carrying her keys with the house key sticking out of her fist so if someone jumped out she could hit them with it and run.
There are absolutely things I do that they would decide not to (riding bikes in the woods after dark
being one great example).
Just stick to the roads, stay off the moors and it’ll be grand.
Tosh in my experience. I ride year round on my own. Out in the woods in the middle of winter I'm as likely to encounter lone female runners as lone male ones these days.
Our younger daughter, 17, has a job at a Indy pizza place in town, 25 mins walk from home. She finishes at 10.30pm every Fri and Saturday night. I walk down and meet her half way, purely for my peace of mind, she insists quite vehemently that she is quite safe walking home on her own, and actually enjoys it.
I love the fact that she has such confidence, albeit with a bit of youthful naivety. It’s also very noticeable that about 80% of the people I pass, going into and back from town, at that time are young women on their own. Therefore I also love the fact that I live in a city where young women appear to be totally comfortable walking around on their own after dark. How common this is elsewhere I don’t know.
Some of you come across as completely clueless ****s, if you don’t mind me saying say so. The world is very different for men and women and most of that is the fault of certain men, whose behaviour ranges from merely unpleasant to actually evil.
If you think it’s just women being irrationally silly, maybe you should listen more and talk less.
I would imagine that all of those saying that male privilege is tosh are men suffering from male privilege.
Many women will have first had experience of being harrassed (anything from being made to feel uncomfortable all the way through to physical/sexual assalt) and they will have secondhand experience from their friends/family/etc - that's why they don't feel comfortable doing things that an 'average' male may see as normal.
Invisible Women - by Caroline Criado Perez - is a great read and includes some of this.
Any man who talks about male privilege as an actual thing worthy of anything but laughter is not worth listening to.
OTOH I wouldn’t risk sitting on my own watching a children’s playground as a middle aged man, whereas I doubt a woman would have any qualms.
My missus doesn't like walking the streets after dark. So if she's been out drinking with the girls she will run home from the pub. Presumably that's safer as rapists can't run. Alternatively she's so knackered and out of breath if anyone makes a grab for her she's in a less able to state to successfully fight or flight.
It's certainly an issue. On our evening club rides we make sure ladies don't have to ride home alone, certainly when we ride in the dark. Most seem to appreciate it. One or two brush it off but even they stick a "three rings" message up on the club Facebook page so we know they got home.
The world is very different for men and women and most of that is the fault of certain men, whose behaviour ranges from merely unpleasant to actually evil.
You're just part of the patriarchy trying to control women by making up stories of 'certain men' hiding on the trails.
What would you say if a woman MTBer suggested to you that 'certain men' aren't very likely to pick a deserted trail "in the middle of no-where" to find victims for their murdering and raping? What if she said that 'certain men' will be looking for their victims in places where there are actually likely you be potential targets? What if she asked you how the 'certain man' hiding in the "in the middle of no-where" waiting for a woman to harm would know that behind the 2000 lumin light approaching was a potential female target? Or the departing red? How would you convince her that she's at risk? Are you saying that the 'certain man' knocks off every approaching cyclist off to check their gender? How come men aren't constantly knocked of their bikes on the trail by weirdos checking to see if there's a potential victim?
PS. If anyone knows how to embed that as a video please point me in the right direction.
Don't you just paste the youtube URL without any formatting code, so...
Meanwhile I've just been told that it's perfectly normal to use house-keys as impromptu knuckle-dusters late at night. Advisable even. 'Everyone knows that...' apparently.
Before I'd left school I'd had a man expose his genitalia to me, at random, on my way home from school. I'd been kerb crawled on my paper round. And for a girl growing up in Bushey, this was not unusual. From an early age you start to adapt. If going out after dark is unavoidable it's a simple routine. Only wear shoes you can run a mile in. Make sure someone knows where you are. Carry your keys between your fingers like a knuckle duster. If you have a handbag sling it satchel style. Zip it up, be prepared to swing it at someone. Don't wear headphones - you want to hear anyone walking behind you. If someone is approaching from behind, cross the road. If they cross the road, cross the road again. Be prepared to run. When you walk, swing your arms - a moving target is harder to grab hold of. Always know what the last train time is but try to make sure you're on the one before that. Watch who gets off the train at your stop, think about whether you're comfortable with them walking behind you. Mess with your shoe, your keys, doing your coat up while they go past. Talk loudly on your phone to an imaginary friend who's "meeting you round the corner" if you're at all concerned. Send a WhatsApp live location home. Think about your route home so you stay away from bushes and from quiet roads and from hidden entrances. Don't get so drunk you can't be alert and take decisions. All normal stuff.
“You’re just part of the patriarchy trying to control women by making up stories of ‘certain men’ hiding on the trails.”
No, I’m a husband of a wife and father of a daughter, who also has close female friends who listens to what they say about their experiences as women.
If a woman has the confidence to night ride solo then that’s great. But if she doesn’t then I won’t tell her that she shouldn’t be scared because probability suggests that she’ll be fine.
I get scared in the woods on my own - it doesn’t stop me going to and from the group night ride via the trails but I’m not exactly an easy target.
When the #metoo thing happened I was horrified at how basically every woman I knew had multiple tales of unpleasant experiences caused by men they didn’t know. How many of us men have suffered similarly from the opposite sex?
alisonsmiles echos the conversation I’ve had with my daughters neither of which I would call shrinking violets both in front line public facing roles. So come on let’s try and do better, call out inappropriate behaviour when you see, raise your children to be respectful of everyone irrespective of gender. I’m trying but not perfect and could do more.
And everyone stay safe in them woods!
When we were students, we got on a train to go home, about six us, mixed gender. This drunk scumbag started making comments to one of the women, being complimentary in an totally undesirable way. He said something like 'I'll leave your girlfriend alone now' to the chap next to her. Stupidly (were were only 19) he said 'she's not my girlfriend', at which point he sidled right over and started fawning over her chatting her up with boozy breath and all.
Many men see women as quarry, even if they aren't trying to be violent or offend. I think this is what feminists mean when they talk about the violence inherent in heterosexual interactions. Men seem to see fit to force their attention onto women even if they don't mean to be actually violent, and they think this is all fine.
No assault was reported that night, no assault took place technically, but it had an emotional effect. And it happens all the time.
That sucks @alisonsmiles.
Sounds like my life growing up as a young boy though you can swap a couple of them with actual (not irregular) violence.
That's not to belittle the experience of women at all. My original sentiment is heartfelt.
But I dislike the talk of male "privilege" when there are very real issues men face that, because of long-standing cultural issues, don't get treated seriously.
The fact that the whole thing is framed as "male privilege" rather than "female experience" should set alarm bells ringing - but it doesn't. That's despite men *overwhelmingly* being the victims of violence.
But for some reason the world only gives a **** about what's happening to half of the innocent population.
Both sexes have shit to deal with and how things were historically shouldn't have a bearing on how we deal with the present.
But I dislike the talk of male “privilege” when there are very real issues men face that, because of long-standing cultural issues, don’t get treated seriously.
Males in general do enjoy privilege in certain areas. It doesn't mean that men don't face other issues of course. Male privilege is term that applies to specific things that men can do without worry. Same as white women enjoy white privilege.
call out inappropriate behaviour when you see
Go call out the next women you see henpecking and belittling her husband in public and see where that gets you.
Same as white women enjoy white privilege.
And women enjoy women privilege. Funny you don't see many campaigns against that though.
I don’t feel particularly oppressed , but at the risk of sounding like someone on here I have:
Been sexually propositioned by a middle aged man when I was 14 whilst sitting on a park bench.
Had a large man simulate masturbation while showing me his penis on a beach in Barbados.
Climbed out of my bedroom whilst a student to avoid having sex with a drunken female I didn’t want to have sex with.
I appreciate that some women have it far worse, but have I just been unlucky or is this sort of stuff more widespread than is commonly believed?
Not this again. Male privilege is a complete myth.
If you look at the facts women are far more privileged and pedalalised than men in Western society.
The fact some people are so blind to it and think the opposite is testiment to how deeply engrained women's privilege actually is.
BWD, thanks for that.
Otherwise, I have to say that a lot of the (male) voices in this thread make me despair. It’s a shame we all can’t accept that we’ve been gifted with some things in life (even if it’s just the “luck” of being big enough not to have to worry about the other half of the population who could easily overpower you) and accept that there are some issues in society that aren’t about us (men). For us (men) to feel the need to try and make these discussions all about ourselves (ooh, look at all the poor, little, hard done by men) is just embarrassing and gives us (men) all something to be ashamed of.
Sad face.
Disappointed by the underlying misogyny demonstrated on this thread, although maybe a few years ago I’d have been on the side of the scoffing ones. What changed for me; listening, actually listening to females experiences of doing the same job that I do, dealing with people from the the grim and not so grim end of society. I realised that how people spoke to and treated me is often fundamentally different to how my female colleagues would be spoken to and treated. Both males and females get grief from idiots; but the sort of crap that women deal with is (IMHO) more insidious, often sexual, and actually more about power dynamics than anything I have ever experienced as a bloke. When I put myself (not literally, lol) in the shoes of a usually smaller, less physically powerful, female individual than myself and imagined how that felt, it was a bit of a revelation, but not a pleasant one. It’s nothing to do with what actually happens, more often than not, it’s far more sinister than that. It’s the attempted suggestion from the abuser of what could happen that epitomises ‘male privilege’.
Take the recent rape ‘jokes’ made by that idiot Ukipper against Jess Phillips. Look at how those were laughed of by him and his supporters, and surely you can see the parallels between that behaviour and the comments from the male privilege deniers on this thread.
Been sexually propositioned by a middle aged man when I was 14 whilst sitting on a park bench.
Had a large man simulate masturbation while showing me his penis on a beach in Barbados.
Climbed out of my bedroom whilst a student to avoid having sex with a drunken female I didn’t want to have sex with.
Your night rides are more eventful than mine. I *did* see two foxes and an Owl this year.
and actually more about power dynamics
This.
An event last week on the high peak trail near us which both men and women use frequently in daylight hours was a man knocking one out leering at a woman whilst wearing a pillow case over his head with eye holes cut out. I'm not being funny but that kind of story is clearly going to stop women goung out alone. You just don't hear of women doing things like that!
whilst wearing a pillow case over his head with eye holes cut out
Careful now. How did you know it was a man?
FFS,
The original post was excellent and well thought out. Somehow it's turned into "what about poor men too?"
I'd hardly describe myself as 'woke', but I think it's a sad world when many women feel too afraid to cycle alone at night.
Not this again. Male privilege is a complete myth.
And women enjoy women privilege. Funny you don’t see many campaigns against that though.
I wonder why?
Men dismissing the idea of male privilege is just male privilege at work. You don't see a problem, because you're men, whereas most women do see one. This is the entire point.
I'm no hard nut, I'm not especially big, but I can walk around at night without worrying too much. Sure, I might get mugged, but it's not particularly likely. Why isn't it that likely? Because if you wanted to hassle someone, you'd be unlikely to pick me because I'm reasonably well built. If you wanted to be sure of an easy mugging target, you'd be more likely to go for someone smaller, lighter, perhaps physically weaker. Now, which section of society tends towards being smaller and physically weaker on average?
Suspect that the deniers need to spend some time really actually listening to a variety of women. I mean actually listening not simply dismissing their concerns. How much more ****ing arrogant can you get?
women: We're experiencing a problem here
men: No you aren't, cos we say you're not
More men kill themsleves in the UK every year due to being screwed over by women in separation/divorce and being kept from seeing their children than there are women killed at the hands of men.
men: We're experiencing a problem here
women and other men: No you aren’t, cos we say you’re not
Where are the countless articles and media onslaught about female privilege and toxic feminiinity? Or is it only a problem when women are at a disadvantage?
Now, which section of society tends towards being smaller and physically weaker on average?
This, and in addition to being the above, woman are involuntary in possession of something that most blokes, in principle, want. And when they are pissed, or scumbags, or thick misogynistic bastards or all of the above they think nothing of expressing their desires in many ways. Subtle, vulgar, aggressive, it’s all about power.
And decent men get tarred with the same brush, don’t like it, and then deny male privilege exists, putting their status as ‘decent men’ at risk, TBH.
My missus fell runs on the moors all year round on her own.
She's more bothered about walking through a town centre.
More people more chance of knob heads.
I don't worry so much
Aye, it’s people that are the problem, generally.
More men kill themsleves in the UK every year due to being screwed over by women in separation/divorce and being kept from seeing their children than there are women killed at the hands of men.
You aren't getting this at all. Once again:
YES, men suffer. The term 'male privilege' does not mean that men don't have problems. The term refers to a certain set of problems that women have that men don't. The reason it's talked about is because so many men are oblivious to it - as this thread shows!
This isn't about tarring all men or women with one brush. That would be ridiculous. Of course there are vulnerable men and abusive women. This is well known and talked about. Male privilege and toxic masculinity are very specific gender related issues. Suicide is not a gender issue, having your ex be an arsehole to you is not a gender issue. These things can happen to anyone.
Suicide is *absolutely* a gender issue @molgrips. As is violence against men.
I'm not belittling problems that face women - but as far as I'm concerned "male privilege" is a term that is unhelpful in any debate about equality.
There are multiple gender imbalances in our society. Discounting violence and suicide - which massively *massively* disproportionately affect men - in favour of pointing out the things women suffer rather than as well as is just another version of getting the plebs to fight amongst themselves.
I think the problem is calling it male privilege, rather than issues faced by women.
Everyone has issues they face some are gender specific and some are faced by both genders.
Tree frogs don't face issues with house prices making it hard for first time buyers, but that's not tree frog privilege is it. It a problem people face with house prices.
Women having to suffer men exposing themselves to them, is not male privilege its a nasty individual exposing him self.
Same as a woman making it difficult for a man to see his kids its not female privilege its a woman using a child to get at a guy.
These are just problems people face and if people of both genders stopped acting like arseholes the world would be a better place.
Well said molgrips - you get it. Its astonishing that in this day and age so many guys don't. I have only skimmed this thread but some of you are living in the middleages still.
I’m no hard nut, I’m not especially big, but I can walk around at night without worrying too much. Sure, I might get mugged, but it’s not particularly likely. Why isn’t it that likely? Because if you wanted to hassle someone, you’d be unlikely to pick me because I’m reasonably well built. If you wanted to be sure of an easy mugging target, you’d be more likely to go for someone smaller, lighter, perhaps physically weaker. Now, which section of society tends towards being smaller and physically weaker on average?
On a trail in the dark “in the middle of no-where” all you can see of an approaching MTB is a bright white light. Nobody can tell you're "reasonably well built". The real reason you're not getting mugged at night “in the middle of no-where” is because no mugger is going to walk out into the "middle of no-where" and wait for hours in the hope that tonight might be the lucky night someone rides past. ...and that's why women are just as safe as you are in the context the OP raises. It's pure perception.
My missus fell runs on the moors all year round on her own.
She’s more bothered about walking through a town centre.
She's spot on AFAIC, and quite right to ignore the scaremongers.
An event last week on the high peak trail near us which both men and women use frequently in daylight hours was a man knocking one out leering at a woman whilst wearing a pillow case over his head with eye holes cut out. I’m not being funny but that kind of story is clearly going to stop women goung out alone. You just don’t hear of women doing things like that!
A crime that would be tricky to commit against women at night because a) The trail wouldn't be used frequently so the guy probably wouldn't bother walking up there b) The crim wouldn't know the approaching MTB was female and c) The approaching MTB wouldn't be able to get a very good view of the crim's todger which presumably was his motive for getting it out in the first place.
A classic example of riding at night being far safer than riding during that day - it just feels scary because the core of our brain comes from prehistoric times when shadows were dangerous because the concealed predators.
Tree frogs don’t face issues with house prices making it hard for first time buyers, but that’s not tree frog privilege
You are so amphibianist.
croe
Member
More men kill themsleves in the UK every year due to being screwed over by women in separation/divorce and being kept from seeing their children than there are women killed at the hands of men.
Can you provide your source for this, the only thing I could see after a quick search was this from fathers for justice in late 2017;
The group say that the Government, the Office For National Statistics and the Samaritans have failed to conduct any meaningful research into the suicide rates of separated dads involved in family court proceedings or establish the trigger factors for these deaths.
Well said molgrips
Agree, putting it very clearly although still doesn't seem quite clear enough for some to understand the male privilege aspect in this specific scenario.
Tree frogs don’t face issues with house prices making it hard for first time buyers, but that’s not tree frog privilege
I would imagine that all of those saying that tree frog privilege is tosh are tree frogs suffering from tree frogs privilege.
Agree, putting it very clearly although still doesn’t seem quite clear enough for some to understand the male privilege aspect in this specific scenario.
This specific scenario is a case where there is no male privilege whatsoever. A dark trail "in the middle of no-where" is a total gender leveller. The wildlife doesn't give a toss what gender you are and the rapists and muggers are all looking for victims in urban areas. In the highly unlikely event there was someone hiding in wait they would have no way of knowing the gender of the approaching MTB rider.
You might as well argue women shouldn't fly light aircraft at night because rapists might be hiding in the clouds.
This thread is genuinely making me despair.
Nobody is saying that men don't face issues. They are different issues. That's why there's an International Men's Day. It tries to raise awareness of the issues we face such as the disproportionately high rate of male suicide, poor mental health care, equality in marriage separation and parental right, certain particularly vicious cancers, etc.
What men don't, as a general rule, experience is
Before I’d left school I’d had a man expose his genitalia to me, at random, on my way home from school. I’d been kerb crawled on my paper round. And for a girl growing up in Bushey, this was not unusual. From an early age you start to adapt. If going out after dark is unavoidable it’s a simple routine. Only wear shoes you can run a mile in. Make sure someone knows where you are. Carry your keys between your fingers like a knuckle duster. If you have a handbag sling it satchel style. Zip it up, be prepared to swing it at someone. Don’t wear headphones – you want to hear anyone walking behind you. If someone is approaching from behind, cross the road. If they cross the road, cross the road again. Be prepared to run. When you walk, swing your arms – a moving target is harder to grab hold of. Always know what the last train time is but try to make sure you’re on the one before that. Watch who gets off the train at your stop, think about whether you’re comfortable with them walking behind you. Mess with your shoe, your keys, doing your coat up while they go past. Talk loudly on your phone to an imaginary friend who’s “meeting you round the corner” if you’re at all concerned. Send a WhatsApp live location home. Think about your route home so you stay away from bushes and from quiet roads and from hidden entrances. Don’t get so drunk you can’t be alert and take decisions. All normal stuff.
If you can read that and not be appalled, and still feel like there's not something deeply wrong, then you're likely part of the problem.
Experiences like the above are 'normal', if you actually talk to women of all ages and walks of life, it's a disturbingly common theme, and that's ****ing horrific.
Suicide is not a gender issue
I'm afraid it is you who doesn't quite get this then. If women being afraid to be out alone is a gender issue then so is suicide. Suggesting one is and one isn't is blatantly stupid.
I think the problem is calling it male privilege, rather than issues faced by women.
Well it is on this thread, but really the name is the point. They are issues faced by women, yes, but the point is that men don't have to think about them and are hence unaware of the extent to which it affects women's lives. It's not the behaviour itself that's under discussion, it's the fact that men don't appreciate the effect it has on women's lives.
as far as I’m concerned “male privilege” is a term that is unhelpful in any debate about equality
This isn't a debate about equality though, not as such. There's bad behaviour throughout society, anyone can be the victim of assaults of all kinds of course. This discussion is about raising awareness of the extent to which women suffer from this. I mean, everyone will feel anxious walking through a rough part of town at chucking out time, or when there's a fight going on or something. But many men are unaware of how this kind of fear is everyday, for many women. This is the issue. The OP is a great example - he simply does not feel the need to worry, but his wife does.
I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t quite get this then. If women being afraid to be out alone is a gender issue then so is suicide. Suggesting one is and one isn’t is blatantly stupid.
Well since I'm not a stupid person, maybe you should think again about how you're reading this.
We're not debating the fact that women are vulnerable. We're debating that men are oblivious to how it affects their lives every day.
Just like women are oblivious to how certain things affect men's life everyday that they don't think about is female privilege. But for some reason that narrative doesn't exist.
Because the issue does not exist and / or is not hidden / ignored?
Go on - what issues do you mean?