[Closed] Making Britain's roads and motorways better

Compulsory annual testing of the over 65's

Personally i think the laws are mostly already okay, they just don't enforce them properly. E.g. people parking opposite/right on junctions is already banned yet never enforced.

If I could add one law however, it would be that households may only own as many vehicles as they have parking spaces for.

All vehicles to be fitted with mobile phone signal jammers

Enforce the laws properly and consistently. None of this
"the sun was in my eyes"
"momentary lapse"
"came out of nowhere"
.....

Bans that actually mean banned. Caught driving while banned? Straight to jail. Speeding? Automatic fine and points. Etc.

Stop building more roads would be a good start.

Aye, actual enforcement of existing laws would be a major step forward.

@crazy-legs I read somewhere that ‘financial hardship’ is no longer an acceptable reason for avoiding a ban?

Lorries trying to pass other lorries when one is going 62 mph and the other is going a whopping 62.5 mph seems to do more to plug up traffic on motorways than any other factor I can think of.

Congestion  is more to do with differentials of speed between the slowest and the fastest vehicles. Dropping the limit to 50mph for everyone and you get less of the standing wave traffic jams that are caused by faster vehicles braking for slower ones

For me the change I'd make is for the National Speed Limit to be contingent on the quality of road provision  - currently we have the same NSL for well specified A roads with well designed junctions and suitable consideration given cyclists and pedestrians as we have for ones that are narrow, have no space for other road users and have blind summits and dangerous intersections and apply the same limit again to narrow country lanes.

I'd set a minimum standard for and A road with a 60mph NSL as one that has safe space for pedestrians and ample provision for cyclists. A Roads that don't meet that standard have a lower NSL in consideration that drivers are having to share the space with other users. A minor B roads below a certain width would have a 40mph NSL.

If it bothers drivers that these less well specified routes have lower speed limits then its up to motorists to lobby for better provision for cyclists and pedestrians

Regular testing that included motorway driving.

OR at the very least a proper public education program targeting shit practices.

We've had "Think Bike" "Kill your speed not a child" and various drink driving campaigns. How about "R U 2 Close" and "Hmm... what's that lane on the left like to drive in?"

Regular compulsory retesting of all drivers. Every 5/10/15 years.

I am trained/tested every 5 years for a licence to drive MEWPs and Telehandlers at work, when travelling at less than 10mph, in a fenced off site that has no public inside it.
Why, then, is it OK to be tested once, often at a young age, to drive at speeds of up to 70mph for the rest of your life (unless medical grounds) surrounded by other road users?

I'm having 2 so there! 😛

More police, in unmarked cars/vans, with cameras looking for mobile phone use etc. More mobile speed cameras in unmarked vehicles at undisclosed locations, and hidden behind signs, trees etc. and no 'extenuating circumstances/hardship' let offs for those who end up losing their license.

I'm going to add another.
Far, far more regular and stringent testing of both vehicles and drivers.

It's insane that a person aged 20 can pass their test in 1980 on a 1.3L Ford Fiesta and still be driving, with NO further checks in 2020 aged 60. Vastly different cars, roads but zero ongoing training.

And vehicles. If you were on a plane and the pilot told you it had passed its MOT 11 months ago and never been serviced since, there's be a mad rush to get off it. Cars? Yep, I'll jump straight in without checking tyres, brakes, lights or anything and just bomb off down the motorway.

All cars to fitted with a sensor which detects active mobile phone use which activates a flashing light on the roof to alert other road users that the muppet in the car isn't paying attention.

Compulsory hardwired dashcams / black boxes.

Enforcement all the way. This alone would make the roads safer and nicer to be on. At the moment people just take chances as they think they won't get caught, and for the most part they're right.

More average speed cameras as well.

All cars to fitted with a sensor which detects active mobile phone use which activates a flashing light on the roof to alert other road users that the muppet in the car isn’t paying attention.

Don’t get this. My mobile is continually sending and receiving data all the time, as is my cars SIM card.

Maybe a flashing light for someone smoking or picking their nose would be more helpful?

Enforcement all the way. This alone would make the roads safer and nicer to be on. At the moment people just take chances as they think they won’t get caught, and for the most part they’re right.

More average speed cameras as well.

So your are suggesting that having poor driving standards is ok so long as we make people pay when they do it 🙄

households may only own as many vehicles as they have parking spaces for.

That would be a problem on cul de sacs where residents think that the whole thing is their bloody personal drive!

given most fatalities on motorways involve stationary vehicles on the hard shoulder, i'd do something about that...

Regular compulsory retesting of all drivers. Every 5/10/15 years.

The worst drivers - statistically - are young drivers. They've only just been tested. They know exactly what the rules are. They just don't care. People who speed know they're not supposed to, people who drink and drive know they're not supposed to, people who drive on the phone know they shouldn't. Test them all tomorrow and they'd all pass and the next day they'd carry on driving as they alway do.

given most fatalities on motorways involve stationary vehicles on the hard shoulder, i’d do something about that…

Theres already a concerted effort to remove those dangerous hard shoulders so that is presumably working out really well 🙂

So your are suggesting that having poor driving standards is ok so long as we make people pay when they do it 🙄

It's the generally accepted way of enforcing relatively minor infringements.
I'd make it means-tested so a footballer on £100,000 a week pays £50,000 for speeding /RLJing while someone on minimum wage just pays the normal £60.

Ultimately, if you can't pay, most people are not going to do the crime in the first place. The key is that enforcement should be rigourous and consistent. Speeding? Using a bus lane in restricted hours? The ticket *will* be in the post.

Couple of years of that and you'll have near enough 100% compliance of lights and speed limits.

Greater investment in alternatives to get people out of cars - I wouldn't mind using public transport if it was affordable and would even cope with it being slightly slower, but I don't because on my regular journeys it would take more than twice as long and costs a fortune (a week using public transport is almost as much as a month using a car).

If the driver fails to indicate correctly on more than one roundabout, the next time they go to use the car it is immobilized. They then have to study indicator use, pass a test and then the vehicle will start. Like a password on a mobile phone, each time they are immobilized another 20 minutes is added to the time.

*MUCH* harder driving test, and retests every 5 years. [1]

...and that driving test would include failing for needless hesitation at junctions/roundabout which is a massive cause of traffic IMHO.

[1] Ok ,this wouldn't be good news for me personally (I'd have to get a bus pass) but could only improve standards and reduce traffic if the worst x percent of people simply couldn't drive.

So your are suggesting that having poor driving standards is ok so long as we make people pay when they do it 🙄

I never mentioned fines, I'd rather see points or bans. If people thought they would get caught for being a shit driver they'd stop being a shit driver if the penalties actually affected their lives.

At the moment there is very little enforcement of dangerous driving i.e. mobile phone use, so people don't give a shit until they crash or wipe someone out.

Get rid of lethal "smart motorways" or at the very least require automatic detection of stopped vehicles. It takes something like an average of 17 minutes for an operator to spot a stopped vehicle and update the gantries, because we are too stingy to pay for the computers to do it.

Also, make the car test like all the other tests. My BE test was a much better evaluation of my driving than the car one (same test for most "vocational" categories, just different vehicles).

And then you could remove the grandfather rights for those who are roughly 40+ to tow caravans and drive LGVs based on a quick spin in a car over 20 years ago.

So your are suggesting that having poor driving standards is ok so long as we make people pay when they do it

In the same way that murder is ok, as long as you're willing to spend a few years inside.

Make car journeys of under five miles illegal.

Also, ranting about enforcement is all very well, but it would incredibly expensive to enforce - how much extra money do you want to spend on policing / would you prioritise road policing over other areas?

I'd agree with actual enforcement of current laws. What's the likelihood of being caught and prosecuted for texting whilst driving? It's got to be pretty close to zero. There's no deterrent currently and the amount of people doing it is staggering. An unmarked police vehicle on the M1 between Northampton and Milton Keynes would be self funding with the revenue raised through fines judging by the amount of lap gazers I see on my commute.

given most fatalities on motorways involve stationary vehicles on the hard shoulder, i’d do something about that…

Solved by smart motorways. Overnight literally zero fatalities on the hard shoulder.

(...but a hell of a lot in lane 1.)

BadlyWiredDog

Subscriber

Make car journeys of under five miles illegal.

Good one, but I suppose people would just loop round and round to make the 200 yard drive to the shops up to five miles.

A thought I had was an upfront cost of £5 needed to start the car. That has the same kind of problem though, people would just leave their cars idling the whole time!

If we’re green-skying it and don’t have to provide practical implementation solutions, I’d like to see micro-bans for minor infringements. So, I dunno, a week for being caught using a mobile phone, 2 weeks for speeding in a 30, 3 weeks for RLJ etc. Would obviously need more sophisticated methods of catching infringers and extremely smart enforcement methods. Would force entitled ****s to use public transport/a bike/their podgy legs for a few days and see how their behaviour affects cyclists and pedestrians. Ultimately, smarter enforcement of any existing or new laws is always going to have civil liberty issues. I do like the method of coppers being in buses catching drivers on their phones. 😀

I’d make it means-tested

I think financial penalties for driving offences are a mistake. Whatever level you set it at people just see it as a tax rather than a punishment - they're angry at having to pay the bill but not chastened by the experience.

Theres not enough shame attached to driving offences - which after all are often criminal offences. Job applications will ask about criminal convictions but will often tell you to omit any speeding tickets. Why? Why as an employer would you pay less heed to someone who recklessly endangers the public on the roads than someone who was caught shoplifting or for having a piss behind a bin?

I'd rather see 'points' replaced with 'weeks' as short bans. People might be more attentive if they've had to use up the holiday entitlement because they can't get to work.

Gah - typed at the same time as DD

I think I'd like to see more traffic police rather than a reliance on cameras everywhere.

A speed camera cannot differentiate between someone doing 80mph momentarily on a motorway to complete an overtake more efficiently, and someone doing the same speed whilst weaving in and out of traffic / aggressively crawling up the arse of the car in front. A traffic officer can.

NB I'm not suggesting that the former is OK, rather that the latter should carry a much heavier penalty. We're too obsessed with speed in isolation in this country to the detriment of everything else. Speed may well be a factor in motorway collisions but it's driving too close and / or not paying proper attention which causes pile-ups.

Car exclusion zones, a 3mile ring around the centre of every city and town over x size.

Theres not enough shame attached to driving offences – which after all are often criminal offences

Exactly. Speeding / texting / reckless driving etc all need to become socially unacceptable. Driver training and assessment need to be better and repeated regularly. It's a nice idea that suddenly you can flood the roads with trained traffic police, but it's unrealistic, you need to look at ways of changing driver behaviour in the first place.

I'm not sure about the 'short bans' idea. I mean, yes, it's a great idea in theory. But I'd guess the sort of people who think it's fine to text whilst driving will probably think "it's only a week, sod it, the chances of me getting caught are remote."

As DD says, it'd need some sort of smart enforcement, a network of ANPR cameras say. And even then, that'd just prove the car was being used, not who was driving or indeed if the banee just swapped cars with their partner for a week.

Good one, but I suppose people would just loop round and round to make the 200 yard drive to the shops up to five miles.

Then the car would be impounded and crushed 🙂

A speed camera cannot differentiate between someone doing 80mph momentarily on a motorway to complete an overtake more efficiently, and someone doing the same speed whilst weaving in and out of traffic / aggressively crawling up the arse of the car in front. A traffic officer can.

Analysis of the footage, GPS and accelerometer data that most dashcams currently record can.
Only a matter of time before they’re able to grass you up to the po-po as well.

Technology will solve a lot of the issues - wired-in / sealed GPS trackers will be compulsory on all cars to deal with road pricing and will be able to track/ monitor speed.

*MUCH* harder driving test, and retests every 5 years.

I had to do an NHS Driving Assessment to be able to keep my license when suffering from nerve damage.

Thats a much more involving than what it takes to get a license in the first place - some of its a paper based assessment:  tests of cognition, memory, and perception. Some of it is done in a similar with tests of periferal vision, reaction time,  measures of how quickly and how hard you can press the brake pedal (and in cases of nerve damage an observer noting whether you can find the pedal without looking).

Quite an eye opener.

But. I think we focus too much of driving as a skill and not enough on driving with consideration. The roads are for everyone and that includes people who aren't enthused or confident or skilled as others (because of course all drivers think they're better than average). Cars are after all mobility aids. We should be driving in consideration of the lowest common denominators.

But I’d guess the sort of people who think it’s fine to text whilst driving will probably think “it’s only a week, sod it, the chances of me getting caught are remote.”

rather than "its only £60, sod it, I might have to dip into my overdraft"

It’s a nice idea that suddenly you can flood the roads with trained traffic police, but it’s unrealistic,

However, traffic has been de-prioritised because of reduced numbers of police; if we had some more, there might be enough slack in the system to allow it to be a higher priority?

We should be driving in consideration of the lowest common denominators.

Agreed, with the caveat that the lowest common denominator is far too low. Remember that "Britain's Worst Drivers" Tv show from a few years ago?

As the more sanctimonious corners of STW like to tell us on driving threads, "driving is a privilege, not a right." Anyone incapable of driving to a base standard (be that technical control or things like courteousness as you say) should be removed from the roads until they can demonstrate otherwise. Then we can worry about the lowest common denominator safe in the knowledge that they have some vague semblance of aptitude to start with.

Compulsory re-tests for me, every 5 years sounds reasonable. I am re-tested or response driving every 3 years and it just becomes normal.

@crazy-legs I read somewhere that ‘financial hardship’ is no longer an acceptable reason for avoiding a ban?

Taxi driver round here used it recently to escape a ban.

The worst drivers – statistically – are young drivers. They’ve only just been tested. They know exactly what the rules are. They just don’t care. People who speed know they’re not supposed to, people who drink and drive know they’re not supposed to, people who drive on the phone know they shouldn’t. Test them all tomorrow and they’d all pass and the next day they’d carry on driving as they alway do.

The worst for accidents but if you want to improve the general standard of driving, rather than target incidents that are committed by your examples re-tests are the way to go. Terrible day to day driving seems to heavily weighted towards 50+ drivers around here.

Greater investment in alternatives to get people out of cars

Amazed it took so many posts to get to this idea. On a cycling forum.

But I’d guess the sort of people who think it’s fine to text whilst driving will probably think “it’s only a week, sod it, the chances of me getting caught are remote.”

I dunno - I reckon most infringements are committed because people are fairly certain they’re not going to get caught. For instance, there’s a section of elevated dc very near my home that has a couple of speed cameras around the middle. Up till recently, limit was 50mph. Now, it’s an open secret that they never flash - something to do with them being near train tracks and other urban myths - anyway, I’ve seen the odd chancer, police cars and ambulances screaming through them in the past with no activation. But pretty much everybody else slowed to 50. Recently, limit reduced to 40mph. Still no sign of them being switched on - in fact, the day after the limit was changed, I myself went through them at 50ish, because I was too dumb to have seen the “new speed limits” signs, and also, I’m obviously a granny killing, child maiming machine. 😀 Again, no flash. But why is it that everybody drives through at 40 now? Are they afraid they’ll have been switched on and they’ll be the ones caught? Yes, speed cameras are blunt instruments, but their effect on changing behaviour (for that particular 200 yd stretch) is significant.

Witness the change in traffic flow through roadworks with Average Speed cameras rather than spot checking Gatsos. It’s remarkable how behaviour changes when people know there’s a significant risk of being caught. Combine a significant risk with a not-insignificant inconvenience for a few weeks and I think behaviour could be changed.

Anyway, it’s pie-in-the-sky - I reckon it would be almost impossible to enforce without significant civil liberty implications.

Also, even though I quoted you, I think most of my answer was expanding further on my pie-in-the-sky answer. 😀

I read somewhere that ‘financial hardship’ is no longer an acceptable reason for avoiding a ban?

The wording isn't 'financial hardship,' it's exceptional hardship or something similar. Like, if your employer would sack you if you received a ban, that could be deemed excessively punitive. Having to take a taxi to work, not so much.

In cases like that it's not just "being let off," they'll ram up the fines to offset the lack of a licence suspension.