[Closed] Machinists - some questions about a lathe and a milling machine

Good luck. Mine is maybe 1/3 that size and it was a right pig to move with three of us. Might be worth looking at specialist transport companies. I did a job last week where one of the teams turned up with a truck they'd borrowed from the local scrap yard with a small crane on the back (designed to lift cars onto the bed). Made the job of shifting the heavy stuff about 100 times easier. For doing DIY I'd maybe make or borrow a wheeled dolly or pallet truck then tilt the lathe onto it possibly with the help of a jack, wheel it to the trailer then winch up a ramp. Maybe rent a car trailer with ramps and a winch already fitted

first off make sure you have a braked trailer (edit, just noticed it is)
I bought this on ebay in the summer and used an engine crane which wasn't too bad as the trailer passed over the legs:

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tbh I would have rather had something more substantial and a proper frame or a forklift/telehandler would have been a lot nicer due to it being quite an awkward load.

We also use a pallet truck to move the compressor out to where the crane and trailer were.

I would probably suggest a tail lift van if it will take the weight and use a pallet truck and borrow an engine crane to lift it on and off the stand and onto a pallet if the weight allows.

[url= http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/index.html ]This[/url] gives some info on a Wilson - the speed quadrant andjuster thingy looks the same.

It looks like the top fitting on the lathe is powered. I think that it fits a cutting bit like a short fat circular saw, so you use it for cutting long thin slots.

N

I'd find a nice friendly specialist, My local guy only charged me £100 for half a days work moving 2 mills and a lathe.

I used an engine lift when I moved my lathe - a bit smaller than yours. Also possible to move things very effectively using rollers. But get help - moving things by yourself is 5x harder.

One at a time in that trailer of course!

Hmm. I could get a 10' trailer, but for some reason the wheels are underneath rather than out to the side, so the bed is 2-300mm higher up making it harder to get stuff on, and being even more unstable. I have to drive them about 200 miles, so separate trips would be a pain, and it makes 'getting the specialists in' very expensive (it's me and my Dad at the moment). I think the Centec mill will break down into fairly small parts and might (?) go in the back of my car at a later date - I'd rather do that than use the 10' trailer.

I have a load of old scaffold boards to go on the gravel driveway, and half a dozen short sections of scaffold tubing to use as rollers. Along with a whole load of rigging rope, pulleys, ratchet straps and timber. Hopefully it'll be reet.

Neither machine will be very stable and the lathe particularly will be waiting to fall on you at the earliest opportunity if you lift from below with a trolley jack.
The accepted way to diy these things is with a combination of rollers and engine crane to lift from above + 4 wheel trailers that you carefully check the floor on and get the correct nose weight on a suitable vehicle .
lathes.co.uk
http://www.lathes.co.uk/centec/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/
should find you some of the specifications.
Possibly contact local model engineering club for contacts for machinery movers or help from knowledgeable folks .
Do not underestimate the risks to you or any helpers .

Edit - You are doing absolutely the right thing by asking questions , 200 miles is serious journey with that lot on board .

Ah yeah 200 miles makes it expensive we only had to go 2 miles.

An engine hoist does sound sensible - I'll see if I can hire one for the weekend.

I'm not sure if this bit refers to my particular model, but as a rough guide:

The 24-inches-between-centres lathe was 67" long, while the 36-inch capacity version was, naturally enough, 12 inches longer; the width was 36", the height 52" and the weight 1400 lbs and 1530 lbs respectively.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to whether it's the 24" or 36" version up there ^ ? The weight at 700kg should be manageable.

Have a search about on ebay for machinery movers - some will advertise as auction listings. I used a company (too long ago for me to remember who) who specialise in moving stuff like that about and the business model is to leave the time frame as open as possible so that they can wait until they have loads that accompany yours and return loads to keep the price down for everyone. I drunkenly bought a 3/4ton, 10ft long dimension saw and only afterwards realised the saw was in dorset and I was in glasgow (I wasn't too drunk to notice I was in glasgow). In the end the company were cheaper than the fuel if I driven there myself.

ut for some reason the wheels are underneath rather than out to the side, so the bed is 2-300mm higher up making it harder to get stuff on

or easier if you're lifting onto a flat platform rather over and edge and down again. That'll be why the bigger trailer is higher - so that a forklift can load on to it.

We have a divot in our concrete floor at work from when the man buying our lathe dropped it off his fork lift. They are quite top heavy.

If you can get a twin Axel trailer put the mill up front (moving the latest item the furthest) then have the lathe central and behind it. Adjust fore and aft weight so there is some on the nose but not too much. As other have said short scaffolding tubes for rollers. Take a couple of long pry bars too. Idealy a winch too. Loads of packing blocks axel stands scaffold boards. Pack up the back of the tailer as when you load it will want to lift the nose. If you can fabrcate a skid out of either metal or wood to place the items on. Don't forget if at any point you are dragging the skid over a step lubrication in your friend to help the skid slie if its wood. You can just use water. Slowly winch the lathe up a sturdy ramp. Take it slowly. Keep your work area clear and never put your self into a position where if the machine moves / falls you will be trapped / pinned down. It is not too hard just long!

At 700 kgs you will be at the weight limit of a Luton with tail lift and may even break the tail lift. Chat up builders yard with fork lift and hire a jumbo transit.

If you can hire a lifting frame/gantry that will fit inside with enough headroom for a 1 ton chain block + slings & the lift then this would make things a lot easier.

Lift each machine enough to get a pallet underneath, then secure to the pallet with coach bolts through the machine feet holes & ratchet straps.

Now use the pallet truck to move each machine to where the trailer is.

Use the lifting frame again to raise the machine high enough to then wheel the trailer under. Lower then strap the machine onto the trailer paying attention to what will happen to the load if you have to brake heavily!! If possible put braces in so that it can't move forward under braking!

Most lifting frames are collapsible for transportation & you can even get some with wheels on..

If you have something sturdy to hang a chain block off of that lathe could be turned on its back with the right combination of strops and blocks. By far the safest and easiest option as you can fling it on a pallet and just move it with a pump truck. If you have it on a truck you can easily winch it up a ramp with the aforementioned strops and winches.

Remember its not just getting the load onto the trailer you need to worry about, its making sure it stays put once its there. Flat on its back is going to be far easier to secure unless you had a front bulkhead to strap it to.

Honestly though, getting the buggers into pallets is probably gong to save you grief , 200kg drums are bad enough, I cant even imagine dragging three and a half of them at one time never mind up a ramp.

I have moved a lot of stuff around in my career, for DIY stuff like these lathe/mill then as above a pallet pump truck, a few smaller Euro pallets, decent engine hoist, strops/shackles, bridle chains, ratchet blocks etc will shift them.

I think I'd prefer them both strapped into the back of a 3.5t van than on a trailer.

WEAR STEEL TOE CAPS BOOTS AND KEEP YOUR FINGERS CLEAR.

A tilting bed trailer is going to make your life easier as 700kg is a hell of a weight to winch up a ramp.
Re the engine hoist, you're problem is going to be whether the lathe will fit far enough back in between the hoist legs to enable it to be lifted - the hoists lift capacity reduces the further out the arm is extended.
Also, if you do lift it with the hoist how would you get it onto the pallet as I doubt a pallet is going to fit between the hoist legs either (certainly doesn't on my hoist).
I'd be looking for some pro's to move it as you're dealing with a big weight there. Renting something to do the lifting and the trailer, got all the other bits together and paid for 400+ miles of fuel all adds up.

Trailer is £50 for a weekend. I think I'll buy a 2T engine crane for £160, and hopefully be able to sell it again for not a lot less than that afterwards. I already have a load of scaffold tube rollers and old scaffold boards, lifting and ratchet straps, shackles, timber etc. I did get a quote from a local firm with a flat bed transit with a hiab - £450, and I'd still have to get the thing out onto the driveway ready for the lift. Would also still need the trailer to get the milling machine, so the £450 would be in addition to all the other stuff which I'd still need.

I'll keep the professional option as a backup, but it seems plenty of people have been successful with the diy approach.

Thanks all for the suggestions. I'll get some pictures along the way...

The 2 tonne on the crane will be with the book at its shortest which might not get you where you need to be over it, as the legs get in the way.

If you do move it yourself, on top of what's been said above, don't try lifting the lathe by the spindle, as you run the risk of bending the spindle and damaging the bearings.
Depending on the bed construction, some should be lifted by an eye attached to the bed, or by slinging from bars positioned underneath. It should ideally be four equal length strops, with each strop going from a bar end to the lifting hook. If you use just two strops looped underneath, you run the risk of the lathe spinning in the strops. Also make sure the bars can't slide together, which you should ideally use a spreader bar to prevent happening.

Above all, if things do start to go wrong, let it go wrong and get out the way. The human body is no match for several hundred kilos of gravity assisted metal.

Get a specialist. Even if the trailer will take the weight, lifting a 750Kg lathe in and out of it without a crane is going to be a colossal pain.

Source: Years of seeing hackspace members saying "But we can do/make it ourselves!"

At risk of appearing to ignore a lot of the well-intentioned advice above, I'm not going to be spending a fortune getting a specialist in without having at least had a go myself first. I'm actually rather looking forward to a weekend of hard work and problem solving!

At work we just use [url= http://www.ajproducts.co.uk/lifting-equipment/lifting-tools/roller-crowbar-3000kg/3979746-33546.wf ]long crowbars[/url] to slowly lift items first onto chocks and then slide pallets underneath (if you have large enough doorways); otherwise use rollers to move them outside first ([url= http://www.cargotrolley.com/html_products/moving-roller-skid-547.html ]or skids with wheels[/url] - 2nd picture). It might be worth ratchet strapping them to pallets, if you are going down the pallet route.

Then you have lots of options; pallet trucks + lorry with tail-lift/ lorry with hiab/ more rollers/ engine hoist(s)/ ramps.

Good luck. Watch those fingers and toes.

Some of the most useful things I've made, was one of these-
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And two of these-
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Combined with a toe jack, a prybar and some blocks of wood, it makes moving heavy things easy on solid floors. Got my 1200kg mill in place with minimal effort. Still not got around to the big lathe though, it's still in wrapped up in a different shed.

^^How did you get on in Robot Wars ? 😉

OP Have you found if the lathe bed can be taken off the main stand?
Sometimes there is only the drive belts and a few bolts to take off/
At least then you would get rid of the top heavy part of the problem.
How much extra gubbins ( spare chucks,faceplates and the like) have you got to take with the machines?

I've no idea if the bed can be removed - I'll certainly check, but from what I've read, most other people suggest it's not worth the hassle. The mill however should come off it's table fairly easily.

There's a lot of gubbins - at least three large chucks, the various bits which I'll strip off the mill, the lathe tailstock. Some of the smaller bits might have to wait for a separate trip if the trailer's getting too heavily loaded.

@mc what have you used for wheels?

Success! Very few pictures unfortunately as it was dirty, oily and raining and no place for a camera.

We got the lathe onto scaffold tube rollers using a 3' crowbar and blocks of wood. Rolled it through three rooms with good concrete floors, down a step, along a gravel path (on scaffold boards), round a corner, along a cobble path, another step, and up onto the trailer. The engine crane was absolutely essential for getting it onto the trailer - no way we could have winched it up a ramp. The milling machine was a piece of cake and went in two bits on a sack barrow.

The other end was relatively straightforward - lifted up with the crane, slid the trailer out and dropped it down onto the crane's legs. We could then wheel it into it's final position and drop it down onto some wooden blocks.

All fingers and toes intact, and throughout the whole weekend only one 'oh sh*t' moment when reversing down a fairly steep slope into my garage - it'll need a 4x4 if I ever need to get it back up the slope! If I was doing it again, a 6' crowbar perhaps with those little wheels at the end would have been handy - but probably not worth the £150 they seem to cost.

[img] [/img]

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Got one of these in the shed

[url= v]Lathe[/url]

😯

Nice job 🙂

Now you haven't cut your fingers and toes off, is envious of your machinery 🙂 At least we know of a forumite who has the kit for a bit of machining if necessary 😉

I expect it'll be a few months before these machines work - they're both three phase so I need to get an inverter to run them, and I expect they could do with a thorough service as well. After that though I'll be taking commissions 8)

[img] [/img]

Good work sir, well done.