Junky - I take it you only ever buy fair trade Banana's for your vegan Banana bread 😕
Let's deal with a few common misconceptions before I have to call House on my vegetarian bingo card.
We're designed / evolved / whatever to be omnivores, not carnivores or vegetarians. So to anyone bleating about teeth or eyes or appendices or whatever, it's a moot point. We've survived and thrived because we're adaptable.
"Moralising" vegetarians are, in my experience, actually pretty rare. I've certainly seen more aggression from the omnivores (maybe it's all that testosterone in the red meat 🙂 ). The PETA 'meat is murder' brigade are to vegetarians what suicide bombers are to muslims; the extremist fringe minority that gives the rest a bad name.
Not everyone is vegetarian for the same reason. Some don't eat meat for ethical / cruelty reasons, some for health reasons, some due to allergies, some for religious reasons, some because they don't like the taste / texture, and so on. Me, I don't eat meat for the same reason I don't eat turds; I can't disassociate from what it is and I think it's just plain revolting (and I'm lucky enough to live in a society where I don't have to, so why would I?) So, triumphant omnivores "catching us out" because we wear leather shoes or drink milk are probably missing the point. I don't eat my shoes.
Vegetarians who eat veggie sausages aren't secretly pining for meat. Things like burgers aren't a natural form of meat, they're just a convenient way of delivering protein. Vegetarians appreciate convenient packaging as much as the meat eaters do.
It's unusual but, some vegetarians do pine for meat. I wish they'd shut up and have some. We'd both be happier.
The Western diet, generally, contains too much protein. Meat in moderation is good for you (so long as it's 'good' meat). Eating meat constantly or exclusively isn't so much.
A vegetarian diet isn't innately unhealthy. See the first point. It can be lower fat than a non-veggie diet but, as with any restrictive diet, it can be unhealthy if you don't take a little care to get a balance of nutrition.
Most vegetarians don't care what you eat (though see the PETA point; some do, but they're largely arseholes). It's your body, put what you want in it. I'd personally consider it a favour if you didn't chow down onto something highly pungent that I find completely repulsive when I'm sharing a table with you, in the same way that I'd rather you didn't smoke or drop your guts whilst I'm eating, but if you really want liver and onions I'm not going to say anything about it; ultimately it's nothing to do with me.
Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should. You want to eat meat, good for you, though I'll have more respect for you if you're comfortable with the whole process of what you're eating rather than only consuming meat where other people have done the wetwork for you and rendered it unidentifiable in nice shrink-wrap boxes.
Vegetarians don't eat fish. If you eat fish, you're not a vegetarian. The term you're looking for is "pescetarian." This point is lovingly dedicated to the Americans in the audience.
And seeing as this is STW I'll close with a rant-ette. "tuna pasta bake" is not a viable vegetarian option on a restaurant menu, and if you only have one vegetarian dish on your menu it's not an "option", it's mandatory. Also, just because we don't eat meat doesn't mean we want to play guessing games. If your menu lists seven different types of chicken and has "vegetarian option (ho ho) available" as a little footnote at the end, I won't be eating in your establishment. Omnivores, if you fancied chicken, would you want to dine somewhere that listed everything else and then said "chicken option also available" at the end?
Did I miss anything?
Did I miss anything?
a sense of humour? 😀
yeah. Pudding.
a sense of humour?
Of all the things I could be accused of lacking, I'd hope that was fairly low on the list.
Did I miss anything?
A summary? 8)
A [s]summary[/s] bibliography?
I struggle with long sentences - many people are making assumptions which have no basis in reality.
Better?
bibliography
Arf. (-:
Better?
I would have liked some puns, but it'll do.
Yeah, terribly sorry, it's been a long day. I'll try harder next time.
(btw, the moment's gone now, but I loved your etch-a-sketch monologue from earlier)
I read that as "I would have liked some prunes"
....chinese whispers anyone?.......
chinese whippets?
ooooo deep fried please with a sweet chilli dip,
"for lurchers that lunch"
oh not tazzy, you have made me realise that his could go down a completely unintentional avenue now.... 😉
**** me Junkyard, you're impossible. I can't be arsed. you win
Win? Did anyone expect somebody on this thread to give up meat or succumb to a bacon sarnie?
🙄
ok, deep fried chinese whippets all round with a side order of prunes. I knew this thread was going somewhere!
Cougar, excellent post.
flame The meaty -> veggie hate is on a par with driver -> cyclist hate, or mtb -> roadie hate. /flame
Pathetic & pointless.
I hate mushrooms, btw. Goodnight.
Did anyone expect somebody on this thread to give up meat or succumb to a bacon sarnie?
well I have seen the error of my ways and stopped my siberian tiger farm as there is no market for eating them now...such as shame as I'd had an idea for a nutritious fortified breakfast snack, got the marketing sorted and everything.
"new Tazzys tiger flakes, they're grrrrrmeat"
my Mum's latest husband has been a vegan for over 40 years and he's a right porky bastard..
overbearing too..
I'll be sticking to the omnivorous diet thanks
Kevevs - Memberok, deep fried chinese whippets all round with a side order of prunes. I knew this thread was going somewhere!
A dish that makes you crap yourself but ensures you get to the loo first. Genius!
mmmn, siberian tiger toastie. Red or brown sauce?
mmmn, siberian tiger toastie. Red or brown sauce?
I was thinking nutella (made with real squirrel nutkin)
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Squirrel is good eating, wouldn't dream of shooting a red one though.
wouldn't dream of shooting a red one though.
sorry read that as "shoeing a red one", and got visions of giving a squirrel a right kicking....now can't stop giggling
So, triumphant omnivores "catching us out" because we wear leather shoes or drink milk are probably missing the point. I don't eat my shoes.
I don't care either way, but...you don't eat your shoes, but, by your argument, you wouldn't mind walking round with turds on your feet?
Shall we go, ahem, squirrelling next weekend tazzy? 💡
Shall we go, ahem, squirrelling next weekend tazzy?
it's a date darling, I'll show you where to bury your nuts for winter
walking round with turds on your feet, now that's not very attractive or becoming of a wholesome Stwer.
I'm not fussed either way about what people eat. I don't eat meat because it grosses me out and I don't like the taste.
It does annoy me when because I'm vegetarian people start spouting rubbish like saying about how much extra space we'd need to grow grain if everyone was veggie, or how many more animals would get killed by farming all that grain. When it is pretty obvious to even the most dumb assed of people that animals also eat grain, so to eat animals requires far more grain or vegetables to be grown than to eat a vegetarian diet.
I don't think there's a moral point to be made either way - we all pick an arbitrary point at which we stop eating things, unless we're cannibals. But there is certainly a very clear environmental argument if you like that sort of thing.
I quite like to nibble nuts before burying them tazzy. Especially if they're coated in that milky morning dew.
it's a date darling, I'll show you where to bury your nuts for winter
3D.
by your argument, you wouldn't mind walking round with turds on your feet?
Slippers?
Or some other form of turdy footwear?
It does annoy me when because I'm vegetarian people start spouting rubbish like saying about how much extra space we'd need to grow grain if everyone was veggie, or how many more animals would get killed by farming all that grain. When it is pretty obvious to even the most dumb assed of people that animals also eat grain, so to eat animals requires far more grain or vegetables to be grown than to eat a vegetarian diet.
We-ell, how can I put this. Obviousness and dumb-assedness aside, that's not quite right I'm afraid. Purely from a land perspective, it's more efficient to let animals eat crops and then eat animals. If the whole world was vegetarian, we wouldn't have the farmland to feed everybody.
Grass, anyone?
zokes your right we seem to have weight well under control with out current diet. Good point well made
Yes, and that's clearly caused by people eating meat, as opposed to just eating too much whilst not exercising enough. 🙄
Excellent post Cougar, I can never be arsed arguing with meat eaters about my dietary choices, I may print that and have it as a handout!
The one meat eater bingo one you missed out was, 'eeew, you're vegetarian, what [i]DO[/i] you eat then?'
Wasn't there a scientific report recently showing that the earth is loosing top soil and top soil nutrients at an alarming rate to the point that without significant chemical and human input the worlds crop growing capacity is going to be massively reduced? Looks like people arw back on the menu and it'll help with the over population issue as well.
The biggest threat to food security, however, is still that we're crap at the logistical side of getting it to where it's needed, rather than not being able to grow enough of it
I've never known tazzy not to secure meat in the most suitable spot. No logistics problems at his sausage parties.
No logistics problems at his sausage parties.
ahhhhh DD, those days of wiener action are well past.
I'm far more interested in some form of cattle based haberdashery these days.
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Soooooooo.
That was how you spent your Sunday night then ?.
😯
Yes, I've read it all. In response to the OP. Is eating meat becoming unfashionable then ?.
Anyway, I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect most of you are Human...
Furthermore, I'm not sure you can change that, you know, give it back or something.
Humans evolved to become a top level predator and ultimately to achieve dominion over the Earth. On a diet of Plants and Animals. Thats just how it is. Eating calorie and nutrient dense food such as meat allowed us to develop larger brains*
Today you can still find examples of people living almost exclusively on meat as they have done for a very long time and folk who survive with very little meat in their diet.
This demonstrates the flexibility that has evolved in the Human body, in order to give us the best chances of survival. In accordance with our surroundings and the foods sources available therein.
However, its widely accepted that an [i]optimal[/i] diet for Humans, requires meat. Like it also doesn't require smoking.
Its your choice, buttercup.
😉
*applies to a varying degree here.
Eating calorie and nutrient dense food such as meat allowed us to develop larger brains*
If this was true then pure meat eaters would be brighter than us
Any animal heavier than us has al arger brain and there is little relationship betweenbrain wiegth and brain power [ also true between humans the heavier brain wont be brighter or all men would be brighter than women ]
Its seems that the amount of meat consumed and intelligence is not a factor in nature or else tigers or lions or polar bears would be top of the chain. Its a myth but a commonly held one. Being bipedal and freeing our hands for tools was more important though it largely just eduicated guessing
its widely accepted that an optimal diet for Humans, requires meat
I wold translate this as those who eat meat says its essential/optimal those who dont say it is not essential.
As for optimal - you can eat a bad diet whether meat or meat free so knowing this one fact alone will not be helpful/informative on deciding how good a diet the person has.
Humans evolved to become a top level predator and ultimately to achieve dominion over the Earth. On a diet of Plants and Animals. Thats just how it is.
A diet mostly of plants. We certainly didn't evolve to need the vast quantites of meat we typically consume in prosperous countries.
Is eating meat becoming unfashionable then ?.
It is if it's a steak in a Leicster square Berni Inn/Garfunkles on your once a year wide-eyed trip south to 'that London'
It isn't if it's pulled pork and slaw or big-m sliders in a soho pop-up
Its seems that the amount of meat consumed and intelligence is not a factor in nature or else tigers or lions or polar bears would be top of the chain.
If that's your logic then you're adding weight to Solo's theory 🙂
Bit daft to make comparisons about inteligence across species!
Not read the thread beyond the first page, but Solo's point about evolution is also kind of silly. We evolved to be very flexible, that's why we (and other omnivores) are successful. So whilst we can eat meat, we can still survive when we don't. Although I'm not sure how well we'd do in the wild without hunting.
In response to the question 'why do we have meat with every meal' - because it's yummy, satisfying and nutritious perhaps?
When it is pretty obvious to even the most dumb assed of people that animals also eat grain
Really? All of them?
This is an interesting point actually, that I've not seen dealt with properly. We have all heard the stat about meat taking seven times more grain than if you just ate the grain in the first place, but there's a few problems with that:
1) They are always talking about the US where the vast majority of beef is intensively farmed grain-fed beef. What about lambs roaming the Welsh hills or grass-fed beef? Some articles grudgingly admit that that 'might be better'. Also the one paper I saw that mentioned different kids of meat said that chicken was far less grain intensive per kg of meat.
2) You can't just replace someone's portion of meat with one of grain, they'd end up protein deficient. You'd have to compare growing grain with growing legumes and whatnot, and keeping animals for dairy and eggs too.
Those aren't rebuttals btw, if anyone has any better studies than the ones I found, please re-post. I'm genuinely interested.