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afaik no high street bank requires a smartphone
Barclays doesn't require you to use their App and the only emails they send me are ones to say they couldn't email me my bank statement as they don't have my email address (I get the same email every month from them).
It’s not the tech of the phone I’m raging against… it’s the way its used and expectations I should have one and it should be turned on and such.
I don't understand this at all - who / what demands it should be turned on?
Although my wife endlessly moans that I never answer my phone, which is always on silent and rarely actually with me...
Modern society demands. Apparently it is essential to be able to talk to every one you know as well as millions you don't NOW!We have to be able to order take away food etc NOW. Twaddle. Don't waste your money. Make it yourself.
I do own a mobile. A smart one. Only because my wife broke it and wanted one without a crack. It still works I think. It is only ued when I am expected to be outside M&S at a time margially different to that previously agreed.
Mobile phones are much the same as helmets or seat belts. Some interfering dimwit with a bit of power has decided that they are essential.
How about a different tack: accept that you need to have a bank account and that practically speaking that’s going to involve a smartphone. Get an account with an ethical eco small scale building society (there are a few online that you wouldn’t be able to access in person) that will do good/better things with your money, and accept it as a trade off that you’re making a positive choice rather than a profit making one. Set it up with a new email address and number, and don’t add any other stuff to your phone, so that it’s effectively a brick that you switch on when you want it and it’s not full of alerts and unpleasant surprises?
I have an iPhone but I've just disabled alerts / notifications for everything except phone calls (and then it's on silent). That way I can just it when I want eg check email, take photos on a walk, pay for food at a cafe and the rest of the time it doesn't disturb me at all.
I've done the same on my work PC, disabled / silenced all comms apps so I only see email etc if I actually open Outlook. Teams is on silent - don't hear any incoming calls etc.
Make technology work for you, not the other way round.
There's definitely a mindset thing. If I'm out riding/walking/whatever and my phone bleeps or rings I tend to ignore it until I reach a convenient point, or maybe just until I get home. I reckon if it's actually urgent then the caller will try again - repeatedly - and then I'd probably react. However, I know we're not all wired the same way and so I absolutely "get" that the same doesn't work for everyone.
A “smartphone” itself has loads of stuff I like and would like to use but it’s the “cost” of having to switch it on and feel hounded by emails/messages etc that seem to all be written in a manner of a call to action.
There's a world of difference between using a banking app and being hounded by emails. They are completely separate things. It is perfectly 100% possible and very simple to just not set up your email, or disable the app.
Make tech work for you - have it do the things you need and stop it doing the things you don't want it to do. You are in charge.
If I’m out riding/walking/whatever and my phone bleeps or rings
My phone is configured so that it only bleeps or rings when the things I want to know about happen - like my wife calling me with something important etc.
Yeah, but there are degrees of "important" 🙂
Simply don’t have your email account on your phone.
Or just turn off notifications. That’s what I do, I only find out if I have email if I go looking in the app, it won’t tell me otherwise.
I may have missed this, but how do you plan to receive money in the future? Salary, pension etc if the goal is no bank account?
Yup, I’ve effectively turned my iPhone into a dumb phone. Turned off most notifications, badges etc. Apps set to fetch messages, not have them pushed.
All the helpful stuff but on my terms.
Santander banking app, but never get any emails from them. Can set for paper statements if you want them. Very little reason to even open app if you don’t want to. Living in the country I couldn’t do without internet banking and online shopping.
a whole load of services I get without wanting.
... don't use them, then? What's the issue here?
What I’m trying to avoid is the “You need to download our App to …” as others have said above NatWest is shit in a lot of ways so I’m happy to move elsewhere … but equally I don’t want to play “bank solitaire” either and be swapping every year as new smartphone “requirements” get brought in.
Fair enough and totally understandable.
I think perhaps though that you're overestimating "requirements" - plenty of banks give you the option to use online banking and I expect that most would prefer that you did, but few if any make it mandatory.
A “smartphone” itself has loads of stuff I like and would like to use but it’s the “cost” of having to switch it on and feel hounded by emails/messages etc that seem to all be written in a manner of a call to action.
But this is a problem of your own devising. Your smartphone doesn't telepathically start receiving emails, let alone alerts, unless you've set that up in the first place.
You seem to be railing against things you can do rather than things you have to do.
Your smartphone doesn’t telepathically start receiving emails, let alone alerts, unless you’ve set that up in the first place.
I think it might. You give it a Google or iCloud Account and then it starts up binging you about emails. But it's 2 mins work to turn them all off, and I think you can disable/uninstall the GMail app or other aops so you can't even get them at all. On Android you can filter all notifications by app.
While I quite like the convenience of banking on a smart phone - I can just transfer money to say, my kids accounts with no 3rd party having to get involved and so on. I can see how they could be a PITA. However other than the fact that I can get to the account just with my thumb print to do all those things. I still mostly don't, I've set up DDs, pay goes in, and I still just prefer to use my bank card for transactions, so the amount of times I need to have my phone "for " banking is pretty limited, and I can still do everything via a pretty good customer service phone line - First Direct
I do get the OPs point though, there's so much stuff directed by 3rd parties to us all, that uses your smart phone as an interface, it's sometimes hard to differentiate between who's the customer, and who's the unpaid admin...
footflaps
That way I can just it when I want eg check email, take photos on a walk, pay for food at a cafe and the rest of the time it doesn’t disturb me at all.
Sounds idyllic 😉
I don’t understand this at all – who / what demands it should be turned on?
So outside of work (which I accept and have a separate phone for) examples off the top of my head are Cadets or School. GP ...
Cougar
… don’t use them, then? What’s the issue here?
So real example (and trying to follow some advice already given)... I've been meaning to try and disable contactless for a while... I didn't ask for it and don't really like the idea of losing my card/wallet (especially as I'd not even know for a week or more until I checked)
I did end up at the pub last week and had "lost" my card... total panic - it turned up in a back pocket of cycling shorts but someone could have spent quite a bit contactless in the meantime.
Google takes me
https://supportcentre.natwestinternational.com/Searchable/1719622502/How-do-I-turn-off-contactless-payments-on-my-debit-card.htm
(Summary: YOU HAVE TO USE THE APP)
So I don't have or want the App... which only way it tells me to do it and I just want to disable contactless
Still .. see bottom for this...
I also get theoretically I could just download the App for this one thing and delete it... except I probably can't.
If memory serves to activate the App I have to agree to lots of **stuff** and set passwords etc. etc.
(and as someone with a fair idea of the background tech this is exactly what I think happened to "My Rewards" .. at some point in the past I started setting it up... something came up and now its frozen in a infinite loop of reset password)
That **stuff** again if memory serves is just more **stuff** I don't want and will be very difficult to get rid of.
Anyway.. google predictive searches quickly showed me I'm not the ONLY person to want to switch off contactless.
Barclaycard
No, you can't switch it off. If you choose not to use contactless, you can simply continue to pay with Chip and PIN. However, there are many benefits to ...
Santander
You can turn off contactless payments on your debit or credit card at any time in our mobile app. Follow the steps below to get started.
Starling
Where to find it
In the app, go to the home screen and tap ‘Card’ at the bottom.
Cougar
I think perhaps though that you’re overestimating “requirements” – plenty of banks give you the option to use online banking and I expect that most would prefer that you did, but few if any make it mandatory.
I think you don't notice until you try and stop it.
It's not that long ago I'd turn off my personal phone when abroad to avoid roaming charges and I spent over 1/2 my life abroad not that long ago.
But this is a problem of your own devising. Your smartphone doesn’t telepathically start receiving emails, let alone alerts, unless you’ve set that up in the first place.
So going back... I'm not trying to just go live in a log cabin on an uninhabited island and forage mushrooms and milk the goats (quite yet) I'm trying to reduce the tech in my personal life and dependence on it (or if not reduce stop going deeper) as above I don't want to do "New Stuff" that then is made difficult for me to get rid of.
I don't ride some places (like the Bull Track anymore) as they require an App... but I do ride places need email and I have been known to order parts or similar.
Most of my riding buds know not to use instant messaging or social media stuff if I'm invited on a ride.. some I'm sure think it's a bit weird but they don't have to ride with me .. if they can be arsed they email me.
Also email is necessary for medical stuff... my rehab exercises (trying to get more movement out of a broken hand) are all emailed to me for example.
Tom Howard
I may have missed this, but how do you plan to receive money in the future? Salary, pension etc if the goal is no bank account?
I probably didn't express it well but that's really the point of this thread. (Or 1/2 of it .. at the moment its more about being able to access)
The question is maybe better described as "What's the closest to my old Building Society passbook"
I used to have a Halifax account and salary was paid in and I could take cash out....
So my attempt at getting the bot to tell me how ...
Ask Cora
Cora can help you with a wide range of queries and show you how to do your banking.
Info: I keep a record of this conversation to allow me to keep improving the customer experience. Please don't provide any personal information which isn't directly relevant to your query. Data is passed to third parties who support this service.
You can read our Privacy Notice for more details.
18:25, Nov 20
Info: Connected with Cora
18:25, Nov 20
Cora: Hi Stephen, I’m Cora your digital assistant. I can help with all sorts of everyday banking queries. Ask me a short, simple question, such as “how do I order a new card?” and I’ll be able to help.
18:25, Nov 20
You: disable contactless
18:25, Nov 20
Cora: Ok, I'm going to need to know a bit more about that. Please could you rephrase your question using more than two words and I'll be able to help.
18:25, Nov 20
You: I want to disable contactless payment on my debit card
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: Please select an option:
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: I just want to confirm that you're asking about one of the following:
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: << Sent Rich Content >>
18:26, Nov 20
You: None of these
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: I can see you are asking about a payment.
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: Which of the options below best describes your query?
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: Please select an option:
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: << Sent Rich Content >>
18:26, Nov 20
You: None of these
18:26, Nov 20
You: None of these
18:26, Nov 20
You: None of these
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: One moment please, I'm just typing.
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: One moment please, I'm just typing.
18:26, Nov 20
Cora: Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Please could you rephrase your question and let me try again?
18:27, Nov 20
You: I want to disable contactless payment on my debit card
18:27, Nov 20
Cora: Please select an option:
18:27, Nov 20
Cora: I just want to confirm that you're asking about one of the following:
18:27, Nov 20
Cora: << Sent Rich Content >>
(Rich Text contact was select from Payment declined, query a payment or non of the above)
with android phones (not sure on ios) - there's something now called "work profile". Basically you can sling a load of apps into this bucket and they're only enabled when you turn work profile on (single button press that doesn't change anything else - all other apps still work). with the profile off, its as if the apps not installed. I'm wondering if this approach (with any apps you find you feel anxious about in the work profile) would allow you to still get all the benefits of a smart phone (you eluded to seeing a bunch yourself) without the downside.
stwhannah
How about a different tack: accept that you need to have a bank account and that practically speaking that’s going to involve a smartphone.
Not a bad suggestion in theory... I guess the issue is that you always need a fairly current/supported phone to do this and keep using a PAYG to stop it being cancelled and keep doing updates.
I sort of tried doing this in a different way (for different reasons) indeed it's still sat on my desk as I was just going to use it to get my email - didn't work out as it wouldn't support a late enough version of gmail (even though its a google phone - original google/LG ) but I never managed to get it doing what I wanted it for.
Eventually the giff-gaff PAYG got suspended through lack of use.
Yeah, I don't interface with "assistants" on banking webpages for all the reasons that @stevextc has printed off, they're universally terrible.
NickC
Yeah, I don’t interface with “assistants” on banking webpages for all the reasons that @stevextc has printed off, they’re universally terrible.
As others said NatWest is pretty dire in many ways but even taking that into account I think what "winds me up" and hence ultimately me not solving the issue is it doesn't seem to matter if its a chat bot, someone claiming to be human or even going into the bank in person.
The behaviours all seem pretty much indistinguishable... except perhaps you get a look of sympathy and a shrug when you go into the bank.
As far as I can see they (sentient and non) all follow the same scripts... can't deviate etc. and every time I think .. "right I'm going to sort this small thing out" I end up frustrated and just giving up.
I'd edit out PI and [post the previous one where I got someone/thing claiming to be human eventually but the summary is ..
Loop:
You need to use the App....
I don't have the App can we do this another way?
You need to download the app
I don't want the App can we do this another way?
Do Loop
Sad factiod .... I know the tech side PM behind at least one implementation of Cora... (heck I trained her and taught her how to develop business operating models amongst other stuff) so I'm 1/2 interested to ask if the design requirements were specific in encouraging people give up trying to change something or just an consequence of poor requirements gathering, poor UAT or just no-one cared?
I'm pretty sure my previous involvement with similar stuff and the complete lack of regard for the end-user is a large reason I don't want this stuff in my personal life anymore.
You seem set on the idea of not wanting an app, because of all the tech problems that are caused by not having it?
I can understand why you don't want to be contacted all the time by people, but that's unrelated to using an online banking app to transfer money or something. I have a Barclays app. Occasionally I use it to check a balance (open app, press fingerprint, read numbers) or transfer some money (open app, press fingerprint, click a few times). I cannot see what's detrimental to my wellbeing about using either of these things. There's no bollocks or stupid digital assistants involved at all. The thought of having to go into a branch to do these things is pretty horrendous.
It looks to me like you've got an idea stuck in your brain about 'not wanting tech' and your somewhat obsessive personality is making a rod for your own back to try and avoid it. I am very familiar with this concept as I do it all the time, and I understand how invasive, destructive and sometimes expensive it can be. But I think you are fighting the wrong battle here.
So real example (and trying to follow some advice already given)… I’ve been meaning to try and disable contactless for a while… I didn’t ask for it and don’t really like the idea of losing my card/wallet (especially as I’d not even know for a week or more until I checked)
I did end up at the pub last week and had “lost” my card… total panic – it turned up in a back pocket of cycling shorts but someone could have spent quite a bit contactless in the meantime.
In that scenario your bank would refund you without question (I think that protection is actually part of the T&Cs for contactless?). You're trying to mitigate a problem of your own fabrication.
I've had it happen to me, I parted company with my bank card on a night out, the first I knew of it was when my bank's fraud team called me the next morning. It'd flagged up on their systems because my lost card had been used back where I'd been out, then minutes later I'd used Google Pay on my phone whilst halfway home. A quick chat to ascertain which were my genuine transactions and it was all sorted.
I think you don’t notice until you try and stop it.
It’s not that long ago I’d turn off my personal phone when abroad to avoid roaming charges and I spent over 1/2 my life abroad not that long ago.
You'll only incur voice roaming charges if you make calls.
Every phone I've ever had since like Android 1.5 has disabled data roaming by default unless you explicitly enable it. But even if that's not the case, it's an option you can set.
You didn't have to turn off your phone at all, unless "not that long ago" was the 1990s.
Also email is necessary for medical stuff… my rehab exercises (trying to get more movement out of a broken hand) are all emailed to me for example.
But it's not necessary. If you didn't have email, they'd post it out to you or you could go and collect it. But email is so much more convenient, isn't it. 😁
Y'know, I don't mean this in an unkind way but its increasingly looking like you're finding all this stuff difficult because you're going out of your way to intentionally make it difficult for yourself in order to prove a point.
Molgrips
It looks to me like you’ve got an idea stuck in your brain about ‘not wanting tech’ and your somewhat obsessive personality is making a rod for your own back to try and avoid it. I am very familiar with this concept as I do it all the time, and I understand how invasive, destructive and sometimes expensive it can be. But I think you are fighting the wrong battle here.
There is more than an element of truth in that... and there is some other stuff happened I can't really explain due to an NDA.
and I understand how invasive, destructive and sometimes expensive it can be
Can you accept that my reasons I want to avoid the tech is exactly that.
I quite honestly would have chucked the £1000+ of "rewards" the other day just to make it go away... (as an example) - I can't afford to but I get so frustrated dealing with it I'd just get rid of it. [out of stupid things I've done that would be quite a minor one - I've lost 2 of my pensions as far as I know because I didn't keep in touch when I moved house - I had an account in France with 12,000 Euro I lost .. because I didn't keep in touch ]
You seem set on the idea of not wanting an app, because of all the tech problems that are caused by not having it?
Perhaps... I think the thing is every time I try and dip my feet in the water is a gaping chasm or some rabbit hole and by signing up to the thing that solves the immediate issue I find I'm agreeing to lots more stuff I don't want or perhaps just don't want to deal with or don't trust myself not to do something stupid because i get frustrated.
The little bit you’ve said about the past work thing sounds awful and not being able to talk about it would stop the processing and recovery from it. Perhaps you should find someone to talk to? The more I hear the more I feel like a decent chat with a therapist would be a good approach here. You’ve referenced this trauma/stress situation that you can’t talk about (but the NDA wouldn’t apply with a therapist) and you’re trying to organise your life around avoiding something. That’s the makings of phobia behaviours, and probably some other things besides. You could keep trying to manage tech out of your life, but if it’s actually trauma driving it and causing avoidance behaviours, then you may find that your boundaries keep shifting. First it’s tech banking, then it’s admin/bureaucracy, then it’s easier to live without electricity than deal with things, and before you realise it the trauma has you being a hermit. I’m taking it to extremes by way of example, but as a phobia sufferer myself it’s taken a few rounds of therapy to stop avoidance behaviours seeming normal and getting in the way of life.
out of stupid things I’ve done that would be quite a minor one – I’ve lost 2 of my pensions as far as I know because I didn’t keep in touch when I moved house – I had an account in France with 12,000 Euro I lost .. because I didn’t keep in touch
I've done loads of stuff like that. The amount of money I've cost our family like this is horrendous when I think about how much it would ease our lives now. Re pensions though there is pension tracing service to find the money that's yours:
My problems appear to relate to a form of ADHD from what I've read.
out of stupid things I’ve done that would be quite a minor one – I’ve lost 2 of my pensions as far as I know because I didn’t keep in touch when I moved house – I had an account in France with 12,000 Euro I lost .. because I didn’t keep in touch
See, if you'd done it online you'd have a record of all the transactions... 😁 In seriousness, that's surely recoverable? You know who they're with, or were, right?
Aside: I was also thinking what Hannah said, I just couldn't trust myself to put it into words without sounding like a dick.
@Molgrips...
I’ve done loads of stuff like that. The amount of money I’ve cost our family like this is horrendous when I think about how much it would ease our lives now.
Please don't take it the wrong way but I totally identified with the way you wrote it.
The account in France was a years rent held in a special escrow type account.
I actually went over back in 2011 and went to the branch (not easy as its inside an ex employers office) with a mate (who's a business owner) and paid some charges to transfer into my "current" account equivalent then totally lost contact and never did anything about it and moved house twice since then.
Given the exchange rate today it would be a very nice boost...I'm totally at a loss as to why I never did anything about it except I kept running into a snag whenever I started to think "Oh I need to sort that out" and I'd put it aside.
Re pensions though there is pension tracing service to find the money that’s yours:
I got a letter somehow 11/2017 (5 yrs ago) titled - still on my desk
** FINAL CHANCE - PLEASE CONFIRM YOUR DETAILS BELOW NOW **
Small victory ... I just went through and traced it and talked to a nice lady who's set up access.
On the back of that success I just sent an email to a mate on another pension from another ex employer... and a couple of months ago I'd actually contacted another mate from another employer regarding that pension but not actually then done anything so I'm going to chase that next.
See, if you’d done it online you’d have a record of all the transactions… 😁 In seriousness, that’s surely recoverable? You know who they’re with, or were, right?
All on work laptops.... but see above ^^^^
I quite honestly don't know who they are with... except the one outstanding one I'd emailed a mate/ex college last month.
The one said
** FINAL CHANCE – PLEASE CONFIRM YOUR DETAILS BELOW NOW **
I'd taken quite literally as final chance ... partly because I do take things literally but also rationally I thought surely they can't write threats like that if its not the case and I'd sort of then applied that to thinking if you don't keep them updated they can just close the pension.
Aside: I was also thinking what Hannah said, I just couldn’t trust myself to put it into words without sounding like a dick.
I was going to reply and thank Hannah... then I actually DID SOMETHING instead.... so oops a but late but
THANKS HANNAH..
Also Thanks Cougar...
The thing though is ultimately Hannah is not wrong.... but actually getting tech out of my life makes me happier.
It's not the right word (we need someone as eloquent as Hannah perhaps) but using certain Tech makes me feel "dirty".
I guess to get STW like YTer "Paul the Punter" has given up MTB and sold his bikes... to be happier (wouldn't work for me but whatever makes him happy)
I feel I want to move on/away from tech (not quite uninhabited island foraging and milking the goats yet) but in that general direction (although I am doing a lot of foraging mushrooms lately) but getting to a point when I only turn my phone on when there is something specific I actually want to do (mushroom ID app, suspension maintenance manuals etc.)
... and
FoxyMTBMallorca .. has shock horror moved to the Costa del Blanca... because being in Mallorca was holding her back and not letting her move forwards.
Going back 2-3 yrs it was actually my counsellor who said to switch the phone off and together with my GP (next door conveniently) wrote a medical letter to my previous employers telling them I had been advised to do this.
I've come a long way forwards since then, certain notification sounds on other peoples phones used to make me anxious... but equally I don't want to get into reliance on these.
For the record I stopped using Apple Pay when my fingerprint ID stopped working... and then had to deregister the phone/delete cards at some point.
I’ve had it happen to me, I parted company with my bank card on a night out, the first I knew of it was when my bank’s fraud team called me the next morning.
I had a new service put on my account without asking... some "emergency cash" thing.
First thing I knew I was on Gare du Nord station mid business trips (literally between Vegas and South of France) unable to buy a ticket to the airport, money out or get a taxi etc. because my card was frozen.
I then had a load of phoning the number.. being transferred and being asked for personal information in what is probably not the best possible place in the world to be putting down bags and doing so... non of which unblocked the card and had I not been in a city that I had friends in walking distance who could lend me money I'd have been completely stuffed.
I got a crime reference number and eventually refunded but no further details ever as to what the scam had been.
After that I asked my account have all remote access taken away without a card reader.
I've since had several fake calls pretending to be from bank security faking the phone number... so on balance that's why I want to keep away from remote banking.
Please don’t take it the wrong way but I totally identified with the way you wrote it.
Mate that's fine, that's why we are talking, to share our experiences and it's positive to identify with others. I mean, at first I thought you were being a bit odd but now we've talked I can understand a lot better. I can identify with a lot of what you write, but there are some small differences (as you'd expect) that mean we get somewhat different results. I'm not (yet) at the point where I want to get rid of all tech, because it actually helps make my life easier in a lot of ways. Like Cougar I would forget to pay all my bills without the tech to do it automatically, and in the past I have done and got into trouble. I get penalties and sanctions for not paying stuff that I can absolutely pay and have the money for. Don't tell my wife, but there are subscriptions I don't use that I've paid every month for like two decades and never bothered to cancel. That's new bike sort of money I've just let evaporate due to paralysis. By far my biggest issue is posting on here all the time - but it's not STW's fault - I post here because I'm bored, even though I have lots to do.
Anyway, it's certainly possible to lock down your digital experience but it sounds as if going through the process of taking control is just a bit too much to deal with. All I can say is that Barclays aren't too bad. They really do leave me alone, and the app is quite unintrusive if you need it. They also have phone banking.
"If out riding/walking/whatever and my phone bleeps or ringshone is configured to stay ".... At home. Why take it? Most of the so called essential needs are anything but.
spent years using the halifax as telephone banking service only until I gave in and went with the app. They still let you pay in/out at Post office branches as I recall and you're usually never too far from one of those
Well, for one thing, it's also my camera.
Yes, don’t get goats. They’re a total pain in the arse. Will make navigating any customer service phone system feel like a doddle.
The thing though is ultimately Hannah is not wrong…. but actually getting tech out of my life makes me happier.
It’s not the right word (we need someone as eloquent as Hannah perhaps) but using certain Tech makes me feel “dirty”.
Genuine question - or at least, perhaps even rhetorical but something for you to consider,
Is there a point on this path where you will consider yourself to be "happy"? Where you'll sit back on your patio with a single malt and your faithful hound by your side and think, "there, I've finished"?
Or, is it ever-decreasing circles where the more 'evil tech' you excise from your life, the more you will crave to excise, until ultimately you drive yourself round the twist because you're chasing an ephemeral dream which is undefined and therefore unattainable?
stwhannah
Yes, don’t get goats. They’re a total pain in the arse. Will make navigating any customer service phone system feel like a doddle.
I had 2 Anglo Nubian goats years ago "Dolly & Diana" they were great, used to graze them at a local graveyard. The symbolism with a big bloke with 2 goats on chains 2 wooden stakes and a wooden maul probably scared a few off 😉
Why take it?
I take a phone for emergency purposes, non-emergency rescues* and to take lovely photos. And not for any kind of Instagram addiction, I take a couple a month maybe, and I share them with family and friends who want to see them because they can't be here.
* Like that time I ran over a Stanley knife blade and destroyed a tyre
Cougar
Genuine question – or at least, perhaps even rhetorical but something for you to consider,
Is there a point on this path where you will consider yourself to be “happy”? Where you’ll sit back on your patio with a single malt and your faithful hound by your side and think, “there, I’ve finished”?
Or, is it ever-decreasing circles where the more ‘evil tech’ you excise from your life, the more you will crave to excise, until ultimately you drive yourself round the twist because you’re chasing an ephemeral dream which is undefined and therefore unattainable?
Fair question ....
There is in my head at least and the "evil tech" I currently want to exorcise is quite targeted and limited.
Bigger question though as I said to Stumpyjon is an increasing lack of interest in it as I get older.
So if I'm honest it sort of depends on how much work/tedium and frustration different stuff brings....
What was useful to use, read pages of T&C's, spend time configuring and managing when I was younger and pretty much constantly travelling just isn't any more.
What was "fun" to play with isn't fun. I was an early adopter on nearly everything tech I can think of... then again I also liked fast cars and now drive a very slow van when I drive at all which is infrequently and I couldn't tell you what size the actual engine is.
What I do know is the van has a every two years or 25,000 miles service (I may change the oil in between if I'm bored or check the timing chain)... but my phone feels like its every 3 months or 5000 miles with constant nagging and maintenance in-between and banking apps are always (understandably) going to want the latest security updates and mobile OS's will keep bundling stuff into the updates that break pre existing apps or mean apps need to be reconfigured and more changes to TOS and T&C's etc.
So I think the longer answer is more what doesn't become too much hassle to use.
To turn it around I can't see myself at 85 on the porch with the pooch and a dram being happy my banking app is broken due to some update to give me a new UI look and some extra korean language pack .. and spending ages setting it back up so I can order another bottle delivered by an amazon drone before I run out.
An interesting take, but I don't share your experience. I have over a hundred apps but I only use a handful, and they just seem to work. Nothing has broken. But then this is a relatively high end Samsung phone so it seems to have support. I don't think I have ever had a problem. what phone brands are giving you this trouble? Re banking, Barclays app has been decent. I don't go through T&Cs though, I do most things on trust. Call me naive if you want.
The phone does give me an update every few months, but I just click the button and ignore it for 10 mins then it works. I just got Android 13 the other day - same story. Then, I'm not trying to do anything particularly demanding with it.
What brand of phone do you have?
Molgrips
An interesting take, but I don’t share your experience.
Happy to answer but as "a lot the same and some different things" a precursor in this my question was going to be do you read the T&C's and TOS? (Which you answered)
That used to be me .... however one thing I can say specifically for you is I have 4 DD's and no other regular payments because like you I was pissing money into stuff I didn't want/use etc. etc.
One of the things got me to that point was making a rule for myself if I can't be bothered to read the T&C/TOS it can't be important enough to keep.
I personally found it rather cathartic to unsubscribe, stop useless/unused subscriptions and get rid of that "Oh shit I'm still paying for that" feeling. (this is in the something in the makes me feel happy not anxious bucket)
I'm guessing you get those "You paid £3.95 to ... " and each time you feel bad?
Easiest Q to answer ...
What brand of phone do you have?
Currently Apple ... and I've more or less had one since the Iphone 3 but not exclusively
Ive got an original Google Nexus / LG branded andrpoid and I had another Android from 3 (I can't remember the brand).
I guess ironically the 3 one was one I bought for my father for emergencies. probably about 9 yrs ago...
It took a couple of years to find its way to me after he died... but it was to all intents a brick from an update POV. I tried to put it to some use at the time but it was really not possible even with enthusiasm. (e.g. mail wouldn't work but tried just using a browser client and that didn't either)
The google Nexus (?) similarly it's just dead really..can't be officially updated and apps don't work and I don't want it to do anything "new" and fancy - just provide a basic functionality same as my old 6120 but over 3G.
So (and I'll answer all your questions eventually) but I'd just compare these "decade old" phones with the D300 sat on my desk. Yep it doesn't do video... and never did but it still otherwise works exactly as it did over a decade ago as does my even older D70 (other than I converted it to IR).
So I guess what I'm saying is I just want a smartphone to be like my Nikon.... but for various reasons it can't and won't.
I'm moderately OK with the "it really was required to update security" (e.g. TFA for POP3) but I'm not really OK with the "screw you get a new phone stuff"
A pivotal moment in this was relatively recent... (maybe 4 yrs) and I was at a National Trust site where the only way to pay was an App. Sure I'm getting on a bit but I think I'm still fairly young in the demographic of National Trust visitors...
Firstly I wasn't super-keen on downloading a parking App.. but I was meeting others and felt forced to (Yeah I can delete it later) except my iPhone6s (which I considered relatively new for me) was incapable of running the parking app. I even had signal and I was early so I even updated my (not very old to me) iPhone to the latest version and it still wasn't capable of running a parking app.
A (relatively young compared to most people in the car park and probably me) lady was over talking to a Ranger so I went and waited... she had the exact same problem .. whatever phone she had wouldn't run the App luckily the Ranger said they weren't checking parking today.
This just struck me as completely mad.... who at the NT made a deliberate decision that people can't park without a new smartphone? Did they sit round a table and discuss "how are we going to discourage older people?"
So I'm guessing not...rather some younger IT guy decided on a company that provided some App and didn't even consider not everyone (and probably a disproportionate number of people visiting NT ) has the latest and greatest phone.
Moreover and based on my professional experience I strongly suspect they lied/misled to the (probably older and less tech savvy) people passing this budget/item because it was a pet project or they were getting a back hander etc.
[I've had to keep quiet through countless meetings where this has happened - one of my reasons for getting out of tech]
.. and the thing is it's a freakin parking App.... I don't know what the App actually did but it just needs to take a reg and payment and update a database... it doesn't need a 3D rendered virtual map and plan of the grounds or whatever that requires a "latest phone".
I have over a hundred apps but I only use a handful, and they just seem to work.
Sorry, I'm kinda quoting out of context but then how many of these hundred apps are doing the same thing? How many are different parking Apps for example?
Can you not still rely on the sticker at NT properties? You could recently.
Sorry, I’m kinda quoting out of context but then how many of these hundred apps are doing the same thing? How many are different parking Apps for example?
About four. But here's the thing - they all work pretty well, and they are all better than having to hunt for coins because I never ever have coins, which leads to some real frustration and a wasted half-hour whilst I try and get some cash then some change. So I like the parking apps - park, look for the number then walk off whilst clicking a few buttons in the app.
I have had the latest Samsung every few years for a while now, I went S6-S9-S21. Not because I get rid of them prematurely, but they always seem to break one way or the other. The S9 is still going though in my daughter's hands, it's going to need its second replacement battery soon. But the reason I get the latest S-series model is that they always work without compromises. My wife always said 'oh I don't need the best thing' and always ended up with some piece of junk budget thing that had bloatware filling up too-small storage etc and didn't get OS updates. Then she got Google phones and currently has a Flip 3 and as flagship phones they are all well supported and the manufacturers make sure they work well. So that might be part of why we have better experiences.
And yes, you are quite right that stuff shouldn't become obselete so quickly, but I think that has slowed down a lot. The S9, despite having a poor battery, still works very well and is worth fixing so we will.
parking apps are a pain in the ass. but still easier than having sufficent coins.
I've never been to a national trust car park that needed an app though. every single one round here has a machine that you can scan your NT card on for free parking.
Molgrips
Can you not still rely on the sticker at NT properties? You could recently.
I believe you can for members ... I guess regardless though the intention of "The Trust" as it were was never to discourage (older) people with older tech from paying for parking if they aren't a member or in a relatives car etc.
I'm not a member, partly I have a few philosophical differences but mainly if I'm honest because it's a subscription and I absolutely try my hardest not to have recurring payments (given I used to be in your situation) and I don't trust myself. If I was doing anything it would be a one off donation....
About four. But here’s the thing – they all work pretty well, and they are all better than having to hunt for coins because I never ever have coins, which leads to some real frustration and a wasted half-hour whilst I try and get some cash then some change. So I like the parking apps – park, look for the number then walk off whilst clicking a few buttons in the app.
That's sorta missing out the card payment option though ?
I guess for me there is some mindset thing... I'm going to <somewhere> (95% will be with my bike) what do I need to take?
Much as I agree a phone is a useful safety feature it's also not something I want on a ride unless its being used as a satnav or something I'd think (or want) "oh must take a phone in case I need parking, food etc.)
Also as per another forked thread... lots of people are finding stuff doesn't work after updates, including medical stuff.
And yes, you are quite right that stuff shouldn’t become obsolete so quickly, but I think that has slowed down a lot.
So just bypassing manufacturers .. going back to "a parking app" I'm totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.
I'm sure the "NT Exec" have some old fogies make us look positively young and would be quite horrified that somehow the App excluded people without "more modern mobiles" - I know the NT is a charity not a government org as such but using as an example there should IMHO be the same protections for people who either don't want a smartphone or can't afford one or just don't want a modern one as other "lifestyle choices". I'm not vegan (by a LONG WAY) but I'd support the rights of Vegans to exist in society ... to use a daft example I don't think insisting people wear leather goods to be allowed to vote or if they work somewhere they have to eat company provided food that they are given a vegan choice and even allowed to take their own food and eat at the same tables.
{I'm a bit invested in this as I'm coeliac and it makes life difficult when I'm with mates want to eat somewhere I can't - even if I have brought my own food - "sorry you can't bring your own food to these benches"}
going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.
I'm guess for anything involving payment info theres an issue with security and whether an older OS is still getting updated and patched
parking apps are a pain in the ass. but still easier than having sufficent coins.
Parking apps are a pain on first use. You invariably wind up somewhere trying to download and app with bog all reception. Once set up though they're a breeze. The biggest annoyance for me is that there's so many of them, I must have half a dozen on my phone.
I’ve never been to a national trust car park that needed an app though. every single one round here has a machine that you can scan your NT card on for free parking.
Assuming you're a member, of course.
I think NT have changed their parking management provider, around here they've pulled all the units out that took cash or contactless and replaced them with cash only with a sign to use an app. I honestly can't believe they thought an app would be easier that contactless, it's simply down to putting it out to tender and an app being cheaper hence more profitable than contactless.
As for being fed up of needing a phone for everything, I'm a software dev and so burnt out with tech I have no patience with needing apps for parking, if I can't pay cash or card I'm not visiting.
Also as per another forked thread… lots of people are finding stuff doesn’t work after updates, including medical stuff.
"Lots" of people? Are you sure about that?
In any case, we should differentiate between app updates and OS updates. Upgrading the OS always carries a risk of compatibility issues, especially if you're an early adopter. App updates generally shouldn't.
So just bypassing manufacturers .. going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.
As maccruiskeen says, you probably want security patches on anything that handles money.
That aside, there's also the issue of testing. How practical is it to make sure that your app works with every incarnation of iOS / Android going back a decade, when most people only get two years out of a phone before getting sucked into their "free" upgrade?
it’s simply down to putting it out to tender and an app being cheaper hence more profitable than contactless.
It's also a lot harder to pass on your ticket to someone else when you're leaving.