[Closed] Louis Theroux - Transgender Kids

Yes - I think Louis is handling it very sensitively.

Louis Theroux yet again handling a difficult subject REALLY well.

Rachel

What channel is it on? I would like to see that.

The thing with transgender is, pretty much you're born that way. So whenever anyone gets to adult hood and decides that this is who they, they've basically spent their entire childhood and teenage years having to deal with what must be a huge burden.

My best friend only recently came out as transgender. He's 41. He said he couldn't bear the thought of having to spend the second half of his life living this lie. I've known him since we were 14. That whole time I knew him he was having to carry this huge burden. I just can't begin to wrap my head around how hard that must have been.

BBC2 geetee. It'll be in the iplayer soon I guess.

It must be a very difficult thing to go through.

If you are on Facebook, it's worth liking Louis, as he tends to post updates about the subjects of his shows.

Fairly hard, geetee…

Rachel

He truly is one of the finest people on this planet. If we could listen to, and understand, our fellow man as well as he does there wouldn't be a single thing to complain about.

Fairly hard, geetee…

This is a public forum so I don't want to highlight was might be the sub text to that comment except to offer a virtual hug to anyone who has had to live with a burden like that.

I've had a fairly steep learning curve since my friend confided in me last August but it has also been the most amazing experience in many ways. I've got to know my best friend in a way that I always thought was lacking. It's not odd now, but the whole time i've known him, for as close as we've been, there's always been just a little bit missing. We were close but there wasn't complete discolure, friendly but never warm, honest but not entirely truthful. It makes sense now of course. Now he's told me, the warmth, honesty and disclosure all falls into place.

A week or so after he came out, we had a dinner date that we'd had in the diary for a few months and I insisted we honour it. He said he'd try to tone down his 'en-femme' appearance and I told him that if he thought I was going to dinner with him looking half-baked he was seriously mistaken. It was all or nothing.

He came dressed to kill.

I'd been talking to him twice a day for a week up to that point, supporting him through the coming out (long long story that does also involve the obvious serious complications of famill) so had had some time to get used to idea. But seeing him on the doorstep that first time, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a fairly sharp intake of breath.

My wife's reaction was the best: 'You Bitch!' said in a friendly way (he/she is 5ft 9 and has, in her words 'great legs'!)

Guy at work's,now, daughter. Was brave enough to take the step at 14. Father has handled it well, pity bullying kids haven't.

He is good

I did notice on the one about mental health in Ohio he laughed at a patient who was telling him what thoughts he had

I thought that was insensitive to say the least

Didn't see it all, but watched a bit with my (children's nurse btw) girlfriend. We both thought it wrong to let the actions of a 5 year old dictate such an important step in life. How do you know the kid is not just playing a game, a bit like having an invisible friend, or simply attention seeking?
Was it all Americans in the programme? It seems if there/ people prepared to pay money for something, there will always be someone to exploit it.

I did notice on the one about mental health in Ohio he laughed at a patient who was telling him what thoughts he had. I thought that was insensitive to say the least

There's something about the way he responds very honestly - almost naively at times - that, I think, makes him a great interviewer and documentarian. It's what allows him to get very close to people and, at least at first, allows him the sort of patience that is usually reserved for children. I'm not sure if it's the same part you're referring to, but there was a moment where a patient described his delusions and paranoia around the time of his crime - it was so ridiculous that, really, the only honest response was to laugh. The patient didn't laugh himself, although that could be down to the considerable chemical influence he was presumably under, and yet he did acknowledge just how absurd his thoughts had been. I think it's sometimes better to deal with things like this 'on a level', as in the way good friends would call BS on something, rather than leave them unchallenged. There is, of course, a line to be drawn when it comes to mocking people or conditions, but I don't see that kind of malice with Louis Theroux.

How do you know the kid is not just playing a game, a bit like having an invisible friend, or simply attention seeking?

That's why they have trained medical professionals, including but not exclusively psychiatrist specialists, who together look to find any other cause for the expressed identity. Only if other causes are not found, and the desire to change things is persistent and consistent, is any action taken.

Was it all Americans in the programme?

yes - they were at a Gender Identity Clinic in San Fransisco, so the clients were American.

If they were at the GIC in London (near Charing Cross Hospital) the clients would be mostly British.

Rachel

We both thought it wrong to let the actions of a 5 year old dictate such an important step in life. How do you know the kid is not just playing a game, a bit like having an invisible friend, or simply attention seeking?

Totally agree.

How would a 5 year old really understand this?

You would be surprised. Not everyone knows by that age if they are trans but a hell of a lot do. They might not have the words to express it, certainly.

I'll have to try to catch on iPlayer this tonight - I've taught a few trans students (that I know of, and probably a few more) so more of an insight would be useful.

It's on my to watch list. A subject i know very little about, to be frank. I too am slightly :O about 5 year olds having a major say in this sort of matter but will hold judgement until I've seen it.

My daughter, now 9 has frequently expressed that she wishes she was a boy. But i don't think it's a 'genuine' wish, it's a social wish in that she mixes mainly with the sporty boys at school, plays a lot of sport which in most cases at that age is mixed, and 9 and 10 year old boys can be right little shits (you can't join in, you're a girl). Thankfully her club and organised sport is much more accepting as she is clearly most of their equals. She's what in the past I'd call a tomboy, she still has a distinctly womanly nurturing character with her younger cousin, etc. but I need to watch and understand more to try to find out what the difference is between someone who likes doing 'boyish' things and someone who is genuinely in the wrong body. I would hate for anyone to go through a substantial part of their life like that, if it was something I should have seen.

Met a few trans men who dress and sometimes live as ladies, and well done to them for the change they have undertaken in their lives, to live with the trapped in secret many held before they fully came out must be a tremendous strain on relationships with freinds and relatives, even partners.

[i]Met a few trans men who dress and sometimes live as ladies, [/i]

This was about young children though. A very different scenario in my opinion.

In what way is it different? Does it matter if a kid (of any age) wants to behave in a way not normally associated with their assigned sex? Why is that?

Rachel

I think the more normal you can make it for a child to express how they feel inside the more normal they are going to feel as they get older. That goes for anything, not just the issue being discussed here but it's particularly important for those times when the thing being expressed is something that society has less experience of and is therefore less widely understood.

You know the child will either grow out of it or grow into it. Either way there is only good that can come from it.

In what way is it different? Does it matter if a kid (of any age) wants to behave in a way not normally associated with their assigned sex? Why is that?

I don't think it's different in the sense that what they experience is altered but I'd imagine there is a profound difference in the way those feelings are accepted.

I think that's what was being got at.

Exactly - it's not because the kids is doing anything wrong; only our prejudices that might bring them to harm. It's us who need to change...

Rachel

I used to be furiously resolute about letting my kids express themselves freely and in whichever way they were inclined..

Until they were born, now we just have to make do with whatever is most practical

I thought it was very well handled, I also think it's pretty amazing that we have clinics and staff to help people feel a little better in their skin, I couldn't imagine how difficult it must be for people in that situation and the challenges they face. I guess the establishment is no longer the problem but more people's reaction and judgement?

I guess the establishment is no longer the problem but more people's reaction and judgement?

I think there's a bit to go yet. We need to have some trans gender politicians, pop stars, film stars etc.

Once they become engrained into our culture then I guess the majority of people won't bat an eye lid at them.

[i]In what way is it different? Does it matter if a kid (of any age) wants to behave in a way not normally associated with their assigned sex? Why is that?[/i]

Eh? Are you looking for an argument that isn't there. The programme wasn't about [i]behaviour[/i], was it?

Sorry Dezb - I was meaning behaviour as in all aspects of expressing gender, rather than just saying wearing a dress etc. I wasn't trying to start an argument.

No probs. 🙂

If I remember my biology lessons we all start as female in the womb and then have added testosterone. So it's not surprising that some people feel the need to revert.

i really enjoyed the programme. Louis did very well

british transgender kids on bbc 2 10.35 this morning on a programe called victoria

Will put it on my to watch list.

It's one I struggle to empathise with a bit so I probably should watch it. I genuinely can't say I feel defined by my gender, or rather I feel defined by lots of things about my personality and physical and mental capabilities but my gender is down the list a bit of things that I think makes me me. If I had been born a woman I think I would have felt no different so can't imagine being motivated enough to want to change either way. But maybe that's because subconsciously I'm happy enough with the gender I got so it doesn't enters my consciousness to question it.

I do however feel I am an olympic athlete trapped inside a fat bastards body!