I do know its all about "move more - eat less", cut down on booze, crisps, chocolate and fatty foods etc., and thats what the next few months will be all about.
But.
Is there any science behind when to excersize, for how long, what intensity, when to eat etc.?
I am also asking this from a general fitness perspective i.e. getting a blubbery pie eater towards acceptable fitness, not a top flight athelete/ whippet looking for that extra tenth of his lap record.
cheers
S
No idea, but I've been eating less for months now and not shifted a pound.
exercise is a rubbish way to lose weight. One small Mars bar is enough to lift you and bike 200m vertically. Much easier not to eat the Mars bar than work it off after. Also exercise increases appetite.
Get a Polar heart rate monitor and use it while exercising to keep your heart rate in the optimal zone for fat burning (it'll tell you what it is).
I don't use it for that since I go as fast as I can everywhere, but I can see how it would be useful.
After 45mins exercise you start burning fat, typically. Long duration, low intensity exercise is best for fat burning.
Exercise is an ace way to lose weight, and the only way in my experience. Not eating seems to do nothing, yet I can drop pounds in a week if I exercise and eat normally. One small mars might be enough to lift you through 200m vertically if you're 100% efficient and your subsequent calorie use returns to normal, but in actual fact youre ~25% efficient and your bodys increased metabolism keeps chugging through the cals over the next 24 hours or so.
Eat like a king in the morning and like a pauper in the evening. Or however the saying goes.
And eat little and often rather than two or three big meals.
Exercise is a great way to loose weight.
If I didn't then they're be 5000+ calories of delicious fat and beer I'd have to cut out of my diet a week 🙂
I've been quite interested in the heart rate zone fun stuff, because it seems to me that I virtually can't stay in the fat burning zone as I can bearly ride that slowly, my average heart rate on a normal road ride is 156 and on anything where I'm not stopped or going downhill I sit around 165-170 for 2-3 hours. This is way above my FBZ, but I'm curious as to whether you're just burning a lower % of fuel from fat, but still burning more fat due to higher intensity.
Also exercise increases appetite.
Also increases your metabolism so not a linear calculation
I find the early morning [pre-breakfast] 1hr runs keep the weight off
My wife has had weight issues and you name it she tried it, I felt sorry for her because it was not as if she sat round all day and was lazy which is a common misconception
So she has been on a Lighterlife diet plan which is only about 500 calories a day which she has followed to the letter and she has lost a steady 3lbs a week totaling hell of a lot in 3 months and her bmi has dropped 13 points
She looks fantastic and she is alot happier in herself
losley speaking 2 ways to go about it.
slow steady exercise will burn %wise more fat.
moree intense exercise will tend to burn more calories but more of these will be gylcogen and be replaced. (could burn more fat in a givwen time that the fat burning method though)
in practice i find it's best to mix it up a bit. some slow some fast. also it's good to change exercise about a bit - i find it impossible to lose weight cycling - i'm too efficient at it. go running and it falls off.
500 calories a day is wrong and dangerous and will mean that as soon a she stops the diet the weight will just go back on again. She has put her body into starvation mode which is not healthy at all
The only sensible way is to eat less and move more
Exercise before breakfast helps, particularly if you've had a low-carb, high-protein dinner the night before. So don't eat anything before you ride into work!
[url= http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0334.htm ]http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0334.htm[/url]
before we go too far down the fat burning zone bullshit road
drink lots of water, don't drink calories, avoid white food, and have some discipline and determination
allow yourself to feel hungry, most of the world population do it every day
TJ
The only sensible way is to eat less and move more
Agreed but when you have tried everything and get no where but miserable you do get desperate
[b]but she is happy and she deserves that[/b] it is not as if she is anorexic her bmi is still over 25
One small mars might be enough to lift you through 200m vertically if you're 100% efficient and your subsequent calorie use returns to normal, but in actual fact youre ~25% efficient and your bodys increased metabolism keeps chugging through the cals over the next 24 hours or so.
sorry, I'd already allowed for muscular efficiency (20%) in that figure, and the bit about the metabolism chugging away after is rubbish :o)
i was 13 10 three months ago i cut down my meal size cut down on bread too and did a bit more on the bike im now bang on 12 stone and its staying there. Just need lots of new cycling kit that fits again lol
[i]drink lots of water, don't drink calories, avoid white food[/i]
Racist!
I eat lots of sandwiches in the week as I can take them to work, have toast in the morning. What can I eat instead of bread? And I cant cut down on beer either.
Just lose the fat off the toast & in the butties
500 a day sounds brutal, but well done to her for seeing it through. Surely she can nudge it back up to 1000 now?So she has been on a Lighterlife diet plan which is only about 500 calories a day which she has followed to the letter and she has lost a steady 3lbs a week totaling hell of a lot in 3 months and her bmi has dropped 13 pointsShe looks fantastic and she is alot happier in herself
What's an average figure for calories per day for a man - something like 2000?
Exercise before breakfast is a good tip and despite what Simon says (sorry Simon!) your metabolism is raised after exercise for several hours.
Some years ago I introduced a morning 30 min easy run to my schedule, in addition to my evening training. I was lean then but I lost more weight and actually had to consciously work on maintaining my weight.
IME using a a HRM as a fat burning tool is useless. As above they force you to exercise at too low an intensity.
Exercise is key along with a good diet.
Well I can second the exercise before breakfast tip. I read an article in CW some time ago which also suggested this as it forces your body to burn fat due to low blood sugar levels. Apparently it's doubly effective if you avoid/reduce your carbs intake in the evening.
Also I find that simply laying of the booze works wonders if I want to lose a few pounds, but then I do drink more than I should.
Read the Matt Hart article on weight loss in singletrack mag a few issues back. Cuts through a lot of the pseudo-scientific nonsense of the weightloss and fitness industries and gives simple, sensible advice.
It is easier to not eat something than it is to eat it then burn off the calories but you have to exercise to keep your metabolism up, if you just stop eating your body half shuts down and uses less.
I dont know whether the science behind it is good but i am loosing weight eating 3 toast for breakfast, soup and a roll for lunch, then a low/no carb dinner in the evening. maybe 3 or 4 times a week i walk the 2 hour walk from the train station to home rather than getting the bus. Walking is the best excercise for loosing weight because it doesnt tire you out so you dont stop after 45 minutes.
Also look for carbs that are low GI
Been trying to lose localised fat from around my gut for years with no joy. I've taken up my xc running again and now train every day wether it's running or biking and the weight is finally starting to shift of my stomach.
I'm also on smaller portions, but I do have weak moments. Alchohol intake is almost non existant.
I've also cut out certain things in order to find out what causes lots of phlem in my throat when I work hard.
Turning 50 has been a massive insentive though.
How much excercise do you need to do before breakfast to make this worthwhile? 25 minute fastish commute do the trick?
sorry, I'd already allowed for muscular efficiency (20%) in that figure, and the bit about the metabolism chugging away after is rubbish :o)
Fair play on the efficiency then, I didn't twiddle the numbers personally, but the metabolism isn't rubbish. Or at least not according to the clinical research doc I was discussing it and having tests on it with last week. If you take your resting metabolic rate while on a 2 week recovery break (normal day for most people) and compare it to the day after decent exercise you'll find you burn a significant amount more calories just sitting about doing nothing, as your body is repairing itself and remains somewhat raised.
How much excercise do you need to do before breakfast to make this worthwhile? 25 minute fastish commute do the trick?
Dunno cycling wise - I run for an hour 5 days a week [about 8 miles/day] & that certainly helps
Been trying to lose localised fat from around my gut for years with no joy.
It's impossible to "spot lose", you need to drop your body fat % very low to get shut of those areas.
and despite what Simon says (sorry Simon!) your metabolism is raised after exercise for several hours.
I'm going to have to see evidence for this. It sounds hopelessly inefficient. My observation is that a few minutes after stopping exercise my breathing and heartrate return to normal. How much exercise? If I exercise for an hour do I get a hour boost afterwards, or do I get the same afterglow from one minute of effort ?
I have recently lost 2.5 stone over a 3 month period.
Based on the simple process of eat less than you do now and exercise more has worked.
I used a web site called food focus to "map" what I ate each day and record my exercise.
It allowed me to "see" what I was eating and regulate it to a point where I know what feels wrong.
Initial I stuck to 1900 cal per day with moderate exercise (an hour per night), for a bloke it is under I know.
But it allowed me to loose 2lbs per week which is the maximum recommended by many nutritionists.
Have a look at the site and see what you think, works for me:
[url= http://www.foodfocus.co.uk/registerprompt.php ]Food Focus clicky[/url]
I started boxing and its been really good. It's a really good workout, something different from cycling. Builds muscle that helps with bike control and strengthens core. Not lost any weight mind you, but % body fat and waist size has dropped which is the important thing.
Since June I have managed to lose 6 kgs (started at 85kgs, am now 79kg) by adjusting my diet and by hitting the weights.
My breakfast and evening meals consist of smoothies containing Whey Protein, Berries (the frozen UNSWEETENED one you can get at Asdas), Low fat yoghurt, Almonds, Flaxseed and ice cubes. These are really filling and quit tasty. You will lose more weight consuming food in a liquid form that you will in a solid form. Dont ask me why but it is a fact.
The best way to get your body to burn off fat is by building muscle (hence the whey protein). The best way to do this is to hit the weights. Join a gym if you can, if not go and buy yourself some basic equipment. I try to do at least 20 minutes a day, bicep curls, bench press, military press, chin ups etc etc.
You should also try and avoid consuming carbs after 6pm.
The first four weeks I didnt lose anything but after that the weight just fell off me. I'm hoping to get down to 75kgs which is what I was before I turned 30.
I can really recommend the following. It's only a fiver and it contains some really great tips.
I took up Jive dancing 3 years ago and now teach. Excellent way to stay in shape!
Different things work for different people, it is easier to lose weight when you are fat and unfit and have a high starting point shall we say than when you are fit and bascially tinkering. This comes from personal experience.
Lighter Life ? Very dodgy, a friend of mine did that, and yes it addresses the calorie intake thing but does nothing to address the lifestyle issue e.g. eating being an emotional response that is quite a common thing in women. Put all the weight back on as went back to normal food and all the same habits.
Things that have worked for me:
Running - seems to burn more calories than biking, I have no idea of the science but works for me. Slow 1 hour runs not short sharp sprints.
Bonk training - not as fun as it sounds, but go out and exercise 20-30 mins in the morning on an empty stomach.
Dairy is the Enemy - cut out all dairy. Don't replace it with full fat mayo.
Oh yeah and don't drink every day.
And if you get really desperate 6 hour road rides.
Good luck !
I'm going to have to see evidence for this. It sounds hopelessly inefficient. My observation is that a few minutes after stopping exercise my breathing and heartrate return to normal. How much exercise? If I exercise for an hour do I get a hour boost afterwards, or do I get the same afterglow from one minute of effort ?
I cant quote research etc, or not without a lot of digging. I have read from more than one source that the effects of a steady run, say 4 ish miles in 30 mins has the effect of raising the rate for several hours afterwords. My own experience however (based on a sample of 1!) was conclusive. It had quite a significant effect.
How much excercise do you need to do before breakfast to make this worthwhile? 25 minute fastish commute do the trick?
In short not much. Its unusual to be able to exercise at intensity first thing in the morning and most athletes that I know use it as a boost for their mileage and as a recovery session from the previous days/evening workout.
Good to see the old "fat burning zone" myths get trotted out as usual (that and sfb feeling the need to contribute to a subject he patently knows very little about).
On the contrary, the best way to lose weight is actually to do high intensity exercise, as that gives you the biggest metabolism boost. Not sure if there's any science behind it, but I also find personally that earlier in the day is better, in order to give you the metabolism boost during waking hours. Not so convinced by the before breakfast idea though, as being completely out of glycogen as your body is at that stage doesn't help (you're kind of returning to the "fat burning zone" idea with that one).
Assuming it's fat loss rather than weight loss you're after, the other thing to do is build a bit of muscle - high intensity stuff works for that, but better is to do some gym work (most cyclists could easily put on some upper body muscle, and core strength will also help with the cycling). More muscle raises your daily energy needs.
Running - seems to burn more calories than biking, I have no idea of the science but works for me.
I agree - seem to get the effect even at the same heart rate as biking (and that's as a well trained runner - those who aren't should get even more effect). My vague theory is that it's something to do with the post exercise metabolism thing, as your body has more repairing to do after running.
Dairy is the Enemy - cut out all dairy.
Wrong - latest info I've seen is that dairy helps prevent you absorbing dietary fat.
On the contrary, the best way to lose weight is actually to do high intensity exercise, as that gives you the biggest metabolism boost.
It is but it is difficult to maintain for very long for the majority of people. Running slowly allows fat burning and is achievable.
You will lose more weight consuming food in a liquid form that you will in a solid form. Dont ask me why but it is a fact.
except your teeth, saliva & stomach reduce everything you eat to liquid ASAP. You cannot digest solids.
Yes, but most people are time limited. You want to be doing as much intensity as you can in the time available. No point going for a slow half hour run at lunchtime when you could be doing half an hour of sprints instead (if your aim is to lose weight).
That and I'm assuming people on here already tend to do long slowish stuff out riding their bikes.
except your teeth, saliva & stomach reduce everything you eat to liquid ASAP. You cannot digest solids.
Oh goody, more sfb gems from the "common sense" handbook. Can't you just accept you don't really know what you're talking about?
One of the key things that we haven't touched on is the mental side to the reduction in consumption.
Weight usually goes on gr5adually. You know, today I eat one chocolate bar, tomorrow I eat two. Today I drink one pint, tomorrow I drink two.
I have found that effective weight loss - which is as much a mental exercise as a physical one - requires a steady change in dietary habits. So, rather than crash dieting and ceasing to eat everything "bad" immediately, do it over a pre-determined period of time.
Can't you just accept you don't really know what you're talking about?
only if you do too :o)
To clarify on Dairy is the Enemy - dairy contains a lot more fat than a lot of people realise, and it means you can;t have pizza, creamy pasta dishes etc. I wasn't quoting any actual science on this, perhaps low fat dairy is OK. It is just a very simple rule to control fat intake, given the obvious stuff about lean meat and don't deep fry all those healthy vegetable.
Science is rubbish these days anyway since t'internet ! And don't start me on Sports Science.
For me I found it useful to get a real idea of the amount of weight I needed to lose; to get to a BMI of ~22 I needed to lose about 20KG which equated to a typical airline baggage allowance - having recently lugged that around on holiday it finally (!) dawned that I was lugging the same around with me whenever I was riding and to lose it would make a huge difference to tackling hills etc.
I also did a bit of the psychobabble bit of actually working out whether what felt like hunger signals actually meant I was in need of food, or were instead just signs of being tired and/or stressed and/or bored etc (mostly the latter when it came down to it).
Also I decided I wanted to do what I could to reduce risks of high blood pressure/diabetes/heart attack stroke and all the other things that mean active life could stop many years before it should.
Finally I decided to drop the booze, puddings and snacks, but otherwise to eat pretty much the normal diet, and to try and exercise or at least not slob out mosty weekday nights.
Currently 1 stone down on the way to three stones down.....
i have been vegan for 22 years and what a surprise! i aint fat! milk is designed to feed a newborn calf and not to go on your cornflakes. its easy really. its bloody unnatural to consume milk and dairy. there are no other species on the planet that consume another animals milk, and if you still think its natural? i would like to see you drink it straight from the cow and not have it conveniently bottled and chilled for you. do the math! it isnt rocket salad you know.
adlyhobart
i would like to see you drink it straight from the cow and not have it conveniently bottled and chilled for you.
Yes please raw milk is wonderfull stuff
mind you so is bacon etc
You're a vegan and preaching to us about what our natural diet should be? 🙄
i aint fat!
Is that because your diet is so unappetising? 😈
there are no other species on the planet that consume another animals milk
bollox
[img] 
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I've also [personally]seen a cat taking milk straight from the cow
i have been vegan for 22 years and what a surprise! i aint fat!
aahhhhhh...... Sanctimony
However you go about it, losing excess weight is a good thing to do. I've knocked off about 5kg in the last couple of months (stacked it on by eating too many snacks and breaking my leg last year) and I feel loads better for it. Climbing performance has improved and my wife is 'digging' me. 😉
Learn to fidget all the time. This is my theory as to why I'm a skinny ****er that eats way more than they burn off.
A page or so back, someone wanted alternative to sandwiches to take to work. Since Mr Cooroo discovered he felt better without bread, he (and sometimes me too) has been having: cooked rice, tuna (nice flavoured ones from Aldi) or ham, spring onion, tomatoes, cucumber all mixed up with a bit of low fat mayo. He reckons it's more filling than sandwich and has lost 2 stone since Feb.
its bloody unnatural to consume milk and dairy. there are no other species on the planet that consume another animals milk, and if you still think its natural?
i suppose 3 million years of evolution has got us this far, taking whatever resources we could get, so maybe going vegan is the next step eh?
i'll pass if it's all the same.
Dead fall fruitarian is the way forward. Or maybe not - think of the microbes people...
lol dairy is the enemy 😀 In those thought processes we'd be banning cooking any meat too, and only consuming raw fruit and veg and raw meat.
The only enemy is eating too much of stuff or in an unbalanced way.
Fat is not the enemy. I think a common mistake people make is cutting out all fat from their diet and overdosing on carbs instead, which never leave you feeling satisfied unless you scoff an absolute ton of them. Eat some peanut butter, olive oil, avocados, nuts, full-fat yoghurt, etc.
Exercise does increase your metabolic rate for a period afterwards for the majority of people. there is no doubt about this. Mechanisms are not totally clear and how much exercise at what threshold is debatable but the basic fact of exercise increasing your BMR even after the exercise is complete is accepted by virtually everyone who works and researches in this field - apart from SFB of course
Refs for simon
- this one is in older sedentery people but the effect is there
http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/6/M352
Wiki - follow the references if you still need convincing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate
Do a 1 hour low intensity ride before breakfast (a cup of black coffee before is OK though). This isn't bonk training it's just you'll switch on fat-burning much easier. The exercise will also raise your metabolism for several hours after so you'll be burning additional calories just sitting at your desk in work.
Only other tip I'd give is have more than 3 meals a day but spread them out and reduce portion size so in balance you're not eating more calories). Also protein makes you feel fuller than carbs (which is why the Atkins diet kinda works) so although you shouldn't stop eating carbs and fat it can be beneficial to increase the proportion of protein you're eating.
http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/6/M352
but the quoted result is (a) 60kCal/day - ie tiny (b) less than 30% of the margin for error
Yes, but it's in the elderly and the exercise will be trivial.
Come on simon, why do you find it hard to believe that your body might need extra cals to repair itself when you've exercised?
Simon - plenty more links for you to follow and pick holes in if you want
I am not doing your googling for you but if you insist agasinst the mass of scientific evidence that this effect does not occur perhaps yo could show where you get your information from.
Many studies show this effect in one form or another although how big the effect is and what the mechanism are are not clear to me.
you'll switch on fat-burning much easier
sigh
does not occur perhaps yo could show where you get your information from
I'm arguing from an evolutionary standpoint. Creatures that kept burning extra energy after they've stopped action would be at a disadvantage. Mind you, the effect you mention is too small to be significant
the biggest waste product from exercise is heat. which raises metabolism
restoring homeostasis post exercise has an energy cost.
if you can't comprehend this why offer advice as clearing you are ignorant, thick or deluded or maybe even all three..
[i]i have been vegan for 22 years and what a surprise! i aint fat! [/i]
I've been an Omnivore for 40yrs and what a surprise, I ain't fat!
he biggest waste product from exercise is heat. which raises metabolism
it's the other way round, metabolism generates heat :o)
ignorant, thick or deluded or maybe even all three..
the word you're searching for is "sceptical"...
I'm arguing from an evolutionary standpoint. Creatures that kept burning extra energy after they've stopped action would be at a disadvantage.
Creatures who's bodies didn't repair themselves or return metabolic chemicals to normal after exercise wouldn't last long either. Exercise is a damaging process on the micro scale. The reason it's a good thing on the macro scale is that the body can repair itself and does so better than before in an attempt to adapt.
anyway my BMI is ok
Shame I need to be 12" taller
I'm arguing from an evolutionary standpoint. Creatures that kept burning extra energy after they've stopped action would be at a disadvantage. Mind you, the effect you mention is too small to be significant
From an evolutionary standpoint muscle repair and glycogen replenishment [b]before[/b] the lion goes for you is probably a good thing, and both of them require energy.
Edit: coffeeking beat me to it!
it's the other way round, metabolism generates heat :o)
i'm refering the post post exercise state - reducing your temperature has an energy cost
the word you're searching for is "sceptical"...
no its not. Do you have some credible new laws of thermodynamics that you're keeping to yourself?
Im always really hot and could wear just my kegs in winter and not be cold, why am not less big ?
Im always really hot and could wear just my kegs in winter and not be cold, why am not less big ?
You eat too much.
I saw a cover one of those cheapy 'Chat' type magazines that had the headline "I lost 5lbs after swimming with sharks"
Probably a foot and a chunk of her lower leg I'd imagine. If you are looking for something a bit more 'balanced' you try a tank of piranhas.
if you can't comprehend this why offer advice as [b]clearing[/b] you are ignorant, [b]thick[/b] or deluded or maybe even all three..
*chortle*
bob passes the reading test... I fail the spelling test 😉