Lizzo

You mean this one?
Nsfw

The word in question doesn't have quite the same meaning and nastiness in the States as it has over here so I doubt she's using it with any real intended malice but yeah, it's not a great move from someone who's always come across as pretty sound and you'd have thought someone on her team would have picked up on it even if she wasn't aware.

or deliberate to generate a bit of controversy.  It's difficult to know now 🙁

edit: I also deliberately didn't link to the vid in case that's what was intended.  Getting far too cynical as I get older

Unfortunate but given the zero likelihood of me choosing to listen to it, I'm not sure my opinion matters.

Seems to be about the word spaz.

A word we all used as kids in the 80s as a generic insult, like the OP suggests. We never thought about it's origins or wider meaning then.

Times change. Quite possible to change the lyric and let everyone learn a little lesson.

listened to it last night the word jumped out & I had to listen again to make sure I heard it right.

Even if it's not deemed offensive in the US, it would be good to it's etymology as I wonder if they are just behind us a bit. As it wasn't offensive when I grew up (it was - but we knew no better)

I think in America, it just means someone who is uncoordinated. iirc there was another song which had also had the word in it recently, and the singer changed it when they became aware of the offense it can cause in the uk.

I'm not sure the 'didn't know it was pretty offensive in another country' defence is applicable when one's content is distributed through international chains with local offices. I find it hard to believe nobody in the UK listened to it before release and went 'yeah, bit of a red flag on that one'.

Yeah, that’s not good enough nowadays.

Edit: I assume as a 43 year old male, Lizzo won't really care about my opinion. However, I just played it to by two daughters (14 & 16) who were both pretty disgusted.

It is so very inoffensive in the US that a wheelchair company even sells a model of wheelchair called the 'Spazz'

https://www.1800wheelchair.com/product/spazz-g-ultralight-wheelchair-by-colours/

Wow! Controversy in music! That must be a first!?! 😆

The word in question doesn’t have quite the same meaning and nastiness in the States as it has over here

Apparently so. Hopefully the lyrics will be updated. Although I've heard young people in the UK saying they don't understand the origin of the term, so who knows.

MrsMC has cerebral palsy. I've called out and reported posters on here for using that term, and had to be restrained at work to avoid a gross misconduct charge when some bell end used it.

Don't really see much wrong with it, but then it's not really aimed at middle aged mountain bikers

Edited. Didn't like the tone of what I'd written.
A bit too much about me.

but then it’s not really aimed at middle aged mountain bikers

You mean they should decide to be offended without listening to it? or not listen to it and be offended on behalf of someone else? Or listen to something they don’t like anyway so they can decide whether they would be offended if they liked it? or didn’t like it… man, it’s so confusing

Well it looks like Lizzo has listened to the compliants and changed the lyrics...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/14/lizzo-removes-harmful-ableist-slur-from-new-song-grrrls-after-criticism?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

A good response to a mistake on her part.

Yes, the record label should have done better for her.

Yeah you can't say that in a song lol. Glad to see she's done the right thing!

A prompt, heartfelt and proportionate response, exactly what was required.

This won't lose her any fans and may even gain her a few.

Nice to see someone who, when they make a mistake, doesn't immediately double down and start squawking about being cancelled, thereby strongly suggesting that it was never a mistake in the first place.

Cool. Good on her, saves a lot of internet frothing. I still prefer her early stuff anyway 🙂

‘as a fat black woman in America, I have had many hurtful words used against me’.

Right..... is this an excuse or a reason to have known better?

Glad it's still fine to call each other bitches and say we want to knock each other out. Phew!

I find it hard to believe nobody in the UK listened to it before release and went ‘yeah, bit of a red flag on that one’.

i would guess the average age of those listening to it before release in pretty much any market will be well under 30. Probably a similar demographic after it's been released to be fair...

Right….. is this an excuse or a reason to have known better?

What's your point caller? She did something, it was pointed out to her, she learnt & changed the lyric?

What did she learn exactly?

i would guess the average age of those listening to it before release in pretty much any market will be well under 30.

I do actually listen to that kinda thang (See you can tell I'm down wid it), have a couple of Lizzo albums, but I'd not heard this one. Thing is, it woulda just passed me by. As SirromJ suggests, the lyrical content of the hippety hoppety type music is really, seriously, not something to be offended by. I mean if you want to listen to the stuff. For example "W.A.P." was a huge mainstream hit!

Funny thing is, all the references to bitches, hos, niggaz, moneymoneymoney, aggressiveness, etc, just can't listen to it any more.

cynical me thinks it could have been a marketing trick without her even knowing.  She may have been unaware but I really doubt the people promoting it weren't.   They didn't have any physical media released so nothing to recover/destroy there, just change the streamed version. Lizzo apologizes as she didn't know (and that is very likely) and her brand is reinforced along with loads of links to the song as it is discussed

all the references to bitches, hos, niggaz, moneymoneymoney, aggressiveness, etc, just can’t listen to it any more.

Oh yeah, tons of it is just so formulaic and unimaginative, lyrically... But there is plenty out there that doesn't have that kind of content.

‘as a fat black woman in America, I have had many hurtful words used against me’.

Right….. is this an excuse or a reason to have known better?

...you could always finish reading her sentence?

“I have had many hurtful words used against me so I understand the power words can have (whether intentionally, or in my case, unintentionally.)”

Which tbf I take to mean she should have known better, but didn't, but does now or something. Whatever, she seems like a laugh and plays a mean flute (check her npr tiny desk concert).

Wow what a time we live in. Imagine if people could be motivated to tackle actual problems instead of constantly fighting over words.

I wonder how the source of her main sample would go down in 2022

I wonder how the source of her main sample would go down in 2022

that was the tour where they had the giant inflatable penis?

(I say 'giant', looked pretty average actually.)

I wonder how the source of her main sample would go down in 2022

Yep, pretty much goes along with what I said in my first post on the thread.

Well, I learned two things today.

First, I'd never heard of the artist and it took half a dozen Vaguebooking STW posts for someone to actually say what you were on about.

Second, after a brief google, it transpires that the line in the Kim Carnes song isn't "all the boys think she's a spaz, she's got Bette Davis eyes" which is what I'd believed it was since the 1980s.

Well it looks like Lizzo has listened to the compliants and changed the lyrics…

One slight mistype and the whole meaning and tone of the sentence changes. 😀

I think Cougar should apologise for his thought crimes.

Mrs. 10 is an American. She says that she would consider it offensive. But it does seem to be in kind of common usage here.

i would guess the average age of those listening to it before release in pretty much any market will be well under 30.

She's a 6 music regular, which we all know is aimed squarely at blokes in their 50's. She's been top of my 'people I really want to see live but haven't yet' list for some time. If you watch her Glastonbury set from 2019 it was absolutely awesome

I would imagine that if you're of the bed-wetting sensitive persuasion you could get upset about the majority of her work

But lets remind ourselves of her genius with some utter filth (definitely NSFW!)

😀

I'd love a car like that for some of those speed bumps around here.

Reminds me of going to 'inclusivity' training at work a few years ago (I'm in Canada). 2 hours of 'how not to offend anyone'.... Near the end someone made a random comment (can't remember what...) to which to trainer replied "That's a bummer!". I nearly strained my eyes as they rolled back so far.... So yeah, there's a big difference in language between different English speaking countries.

There's one episode of Friends which has a higher age rating over here than all the others (The One With The East German Laundry Detergent) because Rachel uses that word to describe her ineptitude at doing the laundry. In the States, Spastic was never used as a term to refer to people with cerebral palsy. It's not really been a common insult over here for years so it's fairly likely she'd never have heard the term used in any non-American way.

She's demonstrated exactly what we should all do when we learn that a word is problematic - she's apologised and corrected the mistake.

We never thought about it’s origins or wider meaning then.

Nah, that's not true. We pulled faces and moved our arms in a way that showed we knew exactly what it meant. See also calling people Joey. But then we grew up.

In the States, Spastic was never used as a term to refer to people with cerebral palsy.

Not sure that's true. But it is true that it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there. Much like... [ better pick one carefully ] ...nitty-gritty over here.

Not sure that’s true. But it is true that it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there.

The explanation I heard was that the terms on both sides of the Atlantic have their origins in spasmodic, but over here it was applied to people with cerebral palsy while in the States it was to clumsy people. But, maybe not.

it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there. Much like… [ better pick one carefully ] …nitty-gritty over here

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin. Nitty gritty I always remember just after using it, but use it so infrequently that it's hard to rewire those synapses. I keep trying though.

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin.

I have no idea what it means other than the tracked earthmover. Would like to know the origin.

Is nitty-gritty the one where there is no actual evidence of it being associated with the slave trade & for which there are several different reasons given as to why it might be racist?