Could you shufty the border a bit further south please?
Yeah somewhere just south of the Isle of Wight would do nicely.
Special shout-out to every LBC punter, Guardian columnist, right-on centrist and financially illiterate journalist with your 'unfunded' tax talk - you have just encouraged the double whammy of austerity 2.0 and markets dictating policy.
Nice one.
I tell you this - markets don't care about inequality.
So we have the drunk Truss and serious Hunt to mop up the real Tory vote. Cut the spending that'll show em.
Special shout-out to every LBC punter, Guardian columnist, right-on centrist and financially illiterate journalist with your ‘unfunded’ tax talk
You forgot the IMF.
You are Patrick Minford and I claim my £10!
You forgot the IMF.
You are Patrick Minford and I claim my £10!
Super nuance there my friend. I'm so far away from Minford it's painful.
Push against tax cuts because they're regressive not because they're unfunded. That's bollocks.
Oh Christ. Here we go again…
Oh Christ. Here we go again…
Funny, you never take your own advice.
I forgot about the world according to Binners.
We're getting Austerity yeah? You likey?
I always thought debate was about differing viewpoints? What a lovely response.
The way the country is financed is not going away. You'd better thank your lucky stars for Q/E last week or we would've been a ton worse - but here we go again.
I doubt the even crusty old buffers who did vote for her can find it in themselves to admit it was the colour of her skin that swung it.
There is no other possible reason.
And yet when they were asked who would make the best leader of the Conservative Party at the beginning of the year all the polls of party members showed that Rishi Sunak was easily the favourite and well in front of Liz Truss.
Asked who they want to replace Mr Johnson in the event he stood down, only Mr Sunak and Ms Truss appear a long way ahead of possible rivals.
The chancellor comes top with 33% of the vote, Ms Truss on 25%, ex-foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt 8%, Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove 6%, Sajid Javid 5% and Priti Patel joint with Dominic Raab on 4%.
You have to assume that most Tory Party members had noticed what colour skin Rishi Sunak had at the start of the year. Even those with failing eyesight would have got a clue from his not very English sounding name.
So what happened, why did his popularity plummet if it wasn't because they all suddenly noticed that he wasn't white?
Well several factors but primarily this in April changed his squeaky clean lovable image:
When the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the person who decides UK tax policy, has a billionaire wife who exploits tax loopholes to avoid paying UK taxes it's not a good look.
Sunak never really recovered from that
He then went on to become embroiled in breaking lockdown rules. And finally, he was seen by many party members as having stabbed Boris Johnson in the back with his resignation and bid for the Tory leadership.
In contrast Liz Truss has no similar personal tax scandal to her name, she wasn't fined for breaking lockdown rules, and no one has accused her of stabbing Boris Johnson in the back. The colour of her skin is of little importance.
And finally Rishi Sunak wasn't very good in the leadership debates, as the underdog he obviously felt that he had little to lose if he used a hostile and aggressive style against Truss whilst patronising her, imo it backfired but was probably worth a try as he would have lost anyway.
Although as late as the first week in July an opinion poll was still showing Sunak as the favourite among Tory Party members by a narrow margin.
Funny how everyone’s celebrating the end of Truss when it’s going to result in higher taxes and public spending cuts on top of higher interest rates. Probably a reduction in the energy price controls too. And all because we deny the simple fact that the government’s finances don’t work like a household’s. 😕
Oh Christ. Here we go again…
Here we go again binners posts a picture because he can't manage to come up with a coherent and credible argument?
Funny how everyone’s celebrating the end of Truss when it’s going to result in higher taxes and public spending cuts on top of higher interest rates. Probably a reduction in the energy price controls too. 😕
It's idiotic.
Few of Truss's plans have actually been put into practice. And yet everyone shits themselves - because markets...
And yet we welcome the warm cosy austerity with open arms. Like good old fashioned Tories.
Good luck to the collapse of the real economy.
People have been sold a pup about the recent hysteria over the £/$. That's been on the cards for yonks.
Get ready for justified financial contraction. Does anyone wonder why we never get anywhere?
Balloon heads.
Don't forget binners. ...... you're not suppose to eat the crayons!
The biggest lesson we should've recently took was that perhaps pensions aren't best left to the market to have fun with.
Crack on.
Until the government admit that Brexit was a ****ing monumentally stupid idea and rejoin the single market then the uk is permanently ****ed
Until the government admit that Brexit was a **** monumentally stupid idea and rejoin the single market
Yes of course. Rejoining a political federation which has neo-liberalism baked into it who are suffering just as much (or more) from stagnant growth, rising interest rates and inflation is suddenly going to solve all our problems! Wake up FFS. The EU issue is dead. There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
You think if there was a Brexit vote tomorrow they'd be a different result? My crusty old bike buddies out today are both still Tory and Brexity. They're out of touch, mortgage paid off, second homes and don't trust Labour.
I'm still recovering.
So we have the drunk Truss and serious Hunt to mop up the real Tory vote
Hang on, is she a bit of a lush as well as being an idiot?
Confirmed *unt is going to delay the 1p tax cut. Result! So on top of my energy bills doubling in price, an extra £300/month on my mortgage in 18 months time, and whatever damage has been to my pension, I now have to pay the govt more than I would have before for the luxury of even worse public services. As long as the markets and international investors are happy, that's the main thing. 🙄
And if that's not enough that c*** Bailey has confirmed they're going to hike up interest rates even more. Economic collapse here we come. I hope you're all good at growing vegetables and hunting rabbits.
markets don’t care about inequality
No, they don’t. That’s down to the government to address. And this one clearly won’t.
And yet we welcome the warm cosy austerity with open arms.
Who’s the “we” here? Not seen anyone do so in this thread yet. You can’t shrink the state during a downturn and expect anything other than a far weaker economy in the long run.
There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
Like food prices rising faster than we’ve known for a generation, and whole sectors grinding to a halt due to restrictions on where people can work, and who you can work with and buy and sell from. The UK needs to work hard at reducing our new barriers to working, trading and living (and starting next year learning). Pretending otherwise is just keeping the UK on a downward spiral. No, we’re not rejoining the EU, but the hard work of repairing the damage of Brexit has to start at some point.
Wake up FFS. The EU issue is dead. There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
Those queues at our borders aren't just an inconvenience
They are part of the extra bureaucracy & red tape that brexit has left costing us billions
Yknow anti-growth coalition type stuff 😉
Brexit is the reason we are adrift, we spent 40 years integrating our economy & government into Europe, no one has a clue about what to do instead
Even the telegraph has admitted it
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1581321195081076736?t=h6luRccAhBzJiWJQe67faA&s=19
Brexit's not dead but the UK will never get the deal they had, ever again. There's a good few made a lot of money out of it.
There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
Trade barriers, tariffs and confidence of trading partners as compared to their other neighbours.. yeah those are bigger issues, along with the concessions we'll have to make to forge a shedload of new trading relationships.
Wake up FFS. The EU issue is dead. There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
Pretty much every single issue facing the UK at the moment is down to Brexit. We got May, Johnson and Truss as PM because of Brexit.
The whole pack of lies that got Brexit "won" continues to prop up a corrupt and incompetent Government who have realised they can ignore the truth.
Government have managed to do absolutely bugger all in terms of actually governing because they're busy arguing like rats in a sack over Brexit and pointless shit like imperial measurements.
The UK has far and away the slowest Covid recovery figures because of the massive amount of extra red tape and costs associated with Brexit.
Brexit has been the downfall of 3 (soon to be 4) PMs in the space of 6 years.
molgrips
Trade barriers, tariffs and confidence of trading partners as compared to their other neighbours.. yeah those are bigger issues, along with the concessions we’ll have to make to forge a shedload of new trading relationships.
That in a nutshell, I'm lucky I got out of the industry I've been in for 31 years but its been absolutely hammered by Brexit & I'm not talking a high tech peripheral sort of business just a basic food stuff 99% of the population eat every day.
I really don't think many people understand how much we were intertwined with most of Europe and what the ramifications would be of leaving.
Anyway Liz Trussed Up! I'm ashamed to be from the same country as her, how the hell does someone so kin incompetent get into power? Yes I know the answer and its utterly demoralising.
Oh and Crazy Legs is spot on too
Super nuance there my friend. I’m so far away from Minford it’s painful.
Push against tax cuts because they’re regressive not because they’re unfunded. That’s bollocks
I'd genuinely like to hear why you think the IMF are wrong? I'm not an economist, but I don't find your sound bites very helpful.
How does she sleep at night?
Does she tell herself she’s from Leeds?
Yes of course. Rejoining a political federation which has neo-liberalism baked into it who are suffering just as much (or more) from stagnant growth, rising interest rates and inflation is suddenly going to solve all our problems! Wake up FFS. The EU issue is dead. There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue through passport control and retire to the Costa Brava.
single market = trade and less restrictions on movement.
Jesus.... this forum needs a big ****ing ignore button.
If Truss was a sleeper agent whose job was to destroy the Tory party, what would she have done differently?
That is based on her being a libdem in her youth.
It kinda works so long as you arent concerned about collateral damage which is always a nice term covering some poor sods, or in this case a country, being seriously damaged.
So a Russian plant (as like many of the revolutionary communist party/spike magazine) then sure it makes sense.
However I would hope the libdems would be a tad more concerned although admittedly after their last few leaders I could be convinced they did get taken over by a hostile foreign power.
Love that Truss is now viscously briefing against Javid....
https://twitter.com/Mark_J_Harper/status/1581373702775586817?t=MCOwQV29WzOsAc5ooJIojg&s=19
Our political system now resembles a feudal court
It’s pathetic.
Yup. Horrible. <Digs out passport and checks renewal date>
Love that Truss is now viscously briefing against Javid….
To be fair Savid (why go first name? Hasnt Alex, sorry Boris to you plebs, taught you anything?) is using the normal useful idiots in the media to brief against both Truss and Hunt.
It really would help us all if the agents refused to be part of it since aside from anything else it helps reinforce the right wing nutters persecution complex that all the media is against them when in reality most of the time
its blue on blue fire (pun intended).
If anyone was in any doubt they consider the tory party more important than the country, then that matter has been settled
Looks like number ten were simultaneously briefing against Hunt too
She really don’t know when to stop digging, does she?
Still… it’s nice to know that they’re all more concerned with who gets to be captain of the Titanic than they are about peoples pensions and mortgages
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1581371868313169920?s=46&t=Ixw70cBaTmOofem0lbXBBA
Jeremy Hunt, the best of the worst?
It's not exactly confidence inspiring.
There are much bigger problems that need resolving than being able to join the fast queue
One of the reasons Truss launched the mini budget is because in the last 6 years our economy has shrunk from 90% of the size of Germany to 70% and it will continue to do so unless the realities of perhaps the worst act of self harm in recent history is confronted. The Tories may have to replace Truss and I will predict that whoever they chose will go equally quickly. The Tories have ceased to be a functioning political party and are now just a cargo cult, who’s leaders must still chant the empty slogans of Brexit-belief to the back benchers still in thrall to the lies they told themselves and us.
The whole pack of lies that got Brexit “won” continues to prop up a corrupt and incompetent Government who have realised they can ignore the truth.
And yet Labour still will not offer up an alternative - astonishing. But that's another thread
In contrast Liz Truss has no similar personal tax scandal to her name ...blah blah blah... The colour of her skin is of little importance. And finally Rishi Sunak wasn’t very good in the leadership debates.
Truss is the worlds worse communicator, she can barley sound human. The platitudes she spouts woodenly shouldn't appeal to anyone with any working faculties.
Rishi was fine when he was in govt, but a brown PM?
Too much for the brexit supporting, suspicious of foreigners voters who still think Boris was right and he got 'brexit done' Gawd bless im
in the last 6 years our economy has shrunk from 90% of the size of Germany to 70%
How does that compare with other EU countries such as France and Italy, have they maintained parity with Germany? All the evidence is that in recent years Germany has had the least worse preforming economy in the EU, and that the EU has shrunk as a percentage of the world's economy. The UK didn't leave the EU 6 years ago btw.
Rishi was fine when he was in govt, but a brown PM?
Yes of course, the Tory Party will not tolerate brown people in high office, or women for that matter. They need to learn more from the Labour Party!
Hold onto those cherished beliefs, it can be the only explanation.
The UK didn’t leave the EU 6 years ago btw.
The minute I he vot happened investment stalled and the £ sunk and the BoE was forced to restart their QE programme
While other countries saw growth the UK stalled
https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1538798900831731712?t=5O-8S8xyamL896homrwedA&s=19
Before brexit vote UK GDP growth had been above EUs every year since 1990, post brexit vote it has averaged 3.8%< whilst the EUs is 8%
Trade as a % of our GDP has fallen to.its lowest level since the 80s with every major EU country showing net increased, while the UK shows a net loss, easily the lowest in the G7
The brexit vote & the lack of the plan to follow it has seriously damaged the economy and slowed growth more austerity will be coming to pay for that
https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/uk-and-global-economy-after-brexit
What this truss farce has shown is that there is still no plan to replace what we lost with brexit
Hold onto those cherished beliefs, it can be the only explanation
It isn't my belief, it's an observation based on the evidence. If not that, then what else?
Liz the brilliant orator? Liz the strategic genius? Liz the political mastermind?
Genuinely what could her appeal be?
Boris was a great communicator, even if most of what he said was guff. Cameron was smooth and convincing.
State for me, clearly, simply, what would make an old crumbly in the home counties vote for a vacuous robot who was constantly mocked for her terrible delivery of speeches over a 'proper' CoE?
Is it because he is short?
Can we make this guy PM?
https://twitter.com/andyverity/status/1581236006166343680?s=46&t=fPdojAHbl8X7QjGqkmHNFA
Is it because he is short?
For many voting members it was because he publicly put the political knife into Johnson.
He certainly wasn't alone in that, but at least that's an explanation.
Rather than a flat denial.
Thank you, Kelvin.
Ernie's touching belief that it couldn't possibly be racisms probably just shows he is more prepared to think better of old Tories than I am.
But his barb at Labour for not choosing a leader who is a woman, or of colour, is well founded. It may start to stink for voters before too long.
How does that compare with other EU countries such as France and Italy, have they maintained parity with Germany? All the evidence is that in recent years Germany has had the least worse preforming economy in the EU, and that the EU has shrunk as a percentage of the world’s economy. The UK didn’t leave the EU 6 years ago btw.
You've had a really good answer up there 👆 @ernielynch.
I'm genuinely curious what those who believe in Brexit (for their own reasons) think when presented with facts about real economic harm.
Is it worth it?
(Genuine question btw, I'm so against every aspect of Brexit I am incapable of seeing any positive and am therefore not impartial)
State for me, clearly, simply, what would make an old crumbly in the home counties vote for a vacuous robot who was constantly mocked for her terrible delivery of speeches over a ‘proper’ CoE?
Your argument falls down on the fact that she made it into the run off against Sunak in the first place. There were plenty of other candidates who could have challenged him who don’t have a brown skin. Her appeal clearly lies in the policies she put forward. She won because she was more right-wing/libertarian than Sunak. Simples. (& what kelvin said)
Not that simples, because the challengers were seen off through cronyism and back door deals and only the final run off went to the vote, Sunak vs Truss
The fact she was there in the first place and not a joke candidate dumped at the first show of hands demonstrates how bust the system is. She should have been found out and rooted out long before she got near the keys of power.
FFS! News programmes this morning hammering the myth that we need austerity and higher taxes to ‘calm the markets’. We’re sleepwalking into oblivion.
https://twitter.com/nafeezahmed/status/1580950733947514881?s=46&t=fPdojAHbl8X7QjGqkmHNFA
It’s an interesting point @dazh Should we be concerned that the (unelected) “markets” can dictate government policy or is that just a statement of a fact that has been true since the dawn of capitalism?
She won because she was more right-wing/libertarian than Sunak. Simples. (& what kelvin said)
She won because the Tory party became UKIP, post-Brexit referendum. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. The power in the party is held by ultra-libertarian headbangers
What Truss has done is exposed their fantasy economics for what it is, to be lobbed in the bin fire that is all the other Brexit bollocks like ‘Global Britain’
The scary thing is that far from being chastened by this, if they remove her they’ll replace her with someone even more unhinged like Braverman or Badenoch
God help us!
It’s an interesting point @dazh Should we be concerned that the (unelected) “markets” can dictate government policy
Tory policy is that the market provides the solution, so it's chicken and egg?
