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It's been a good number of years since I was in education without a choice about being there, but when I was at school (private) school there was an enormous sliding scale of term fees and perceived benefits... My parents went out of their way to put me and my sister through private education, that was their choice. But they also had the choice to spend £5k per annum per child too, it didn't have to be £25k.
I was fortunate, I know this, I had privileges that aren't afforded to many. But by the same token, my parents did their homework, chose our schools based upon a number of criteria, but didn't spend beyond their means. For many people, myself included right now, the notion of having £10k a year to spend on school fees even is absurd. But... It's still £35k a year less than this guy chooses to spend!
I know people from all walks of life, those that have been through rough state schools right up to those that have been to the most expensive private schools. I can say categorically that the cost of a terms fees, has little or no bearing on the outcome of the child in the long run! Choosing a school cos it is known to achieve good grades and have high achievers will make more difference than throwing money at the problem. When I was at school, my school was consistently one of the top performing schools in the county despite its term fees being one of the lowest for private schools in the area, but there were also high performing state schools kicking on its heels too. There was also uber expensive boarding schools with very poor performances too!
Anyway... That's enough for balance... Let the left resume their ranting... 😉
actly do you think the 'old boys' network will actually do?IME, unless maybe you're an Etonian or from one of the other prestige private schools (which is a very different thing from the best academic ones) then it'll do sweet FA for them beyond the education and learning they get at the school. Even then I'd suggest that in a lot of industries, Etonians and the like wouldn't get any benefit.
No idea about networks. But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class 😉 ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni. Even though state kids with the same a level grades as a private kid do better in their degrees. Would love to spend a few weeks with cannoco and that data set.
Oh an mboy the data doesnt seem to fit your narrative.
It might have a bearing on whether or not the kid has a good time though. I'm not sure I'd enjoy sending my kid to some really rough school... I know I'd have hated that as a kid, being me.
Depends on their choices I suppose, but even if their state schools are bad you'd expect they could find something decent for a lot less than £45kpa. Unless they have 7 kids or something, cba to read the original article.
But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni.
I think that just proves that there is more to being successful in life than getting good grades.
With intelligence and education, the principle of 'good enough' may well hold true. While it is strongly shown (in empirical data) that intelligence is positively correlated with advancement along the leadership career path, it is only the case to a point. Beyond a certain IQ, more IQ doesn't make any difference.
I think that just proves that there is more to being successful in life than getting good grades.
Nothing new there, work ethic, social skills etc, all learnt from parents will have a huge affect career wise. Good grades is only a small part of the story.
Indeed. It would be interesting to see if that could be factored out of the analysis though.
But I heard on radio 4 ( does that make me middle class ) that kids from private schools with the same degree from the same uni as a former state kid still go on to earn more post uni.
Not surprising that kids who have parents that are driven by money, are driven by money themselves.
Even when they have both done a degree in art history?
You learn so much from your parents, and you also take their example. If a parent is a business person and every meal time they are talking about their deals and projects, the world of business will seem normal and comfortable, so you'll be more likely to enter that. To me, business was a strange mystery world, so I never imagined myself doing it.
Not surprising that kids who have parents that are driven by money, are driven by money themselves.
That's a massive assumption to make. Being driven by success in your field is not the same as being driven just by money.
Case in point, why do so many millionaires who have already made their fortune continue to do what they do? It's not because they need the money.
I understand that it might be easier and more comfortable for the far left to regard everyone who earns significantly more than the mean or the median as being purely driven by money but reality doesn't confirm that notion.
Even when they have both done a degree in art history?
Mickey Mouse degree, I bet their parents were gutted.
go to the right school and you get to be the chancellor of the exchequerart history?
Mickey Mouse degree, I bet their parents were gutted.
I did a 'mickey mouse' degree and it hasn't hindered my earning potential. Shoot my brother did a PE degree and he's making quite a bit more than £120k.
My supposition is that there is no such thing as a mickey mouse degree, only mickey mouse people.
Well isnt your brother great geetee. Whats your point though?
My point is that there is no such thing as a mickey mouse degree, only mickey mouse people.
I get very riled by the term mickey mouse degree. It's ignorant of the facts and terribly arrogant.
Oh and yes, my brother is a genuinely lovely bloke. Not perfect (far from it), but he is a good person and a great father.
These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:
1. I'm not middle class;
2. I'm glad I'm not middle class.
I get very riled by the term mickey mouse degree.
Well you've only yourself to blame for that. If you'd have done a proper degree you wouldn't be so easily upset.
These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:1. I'm not middle class;
2. I'm glad I'm not middle class.
and
3. I'm glad I didn't do a Mickey Mouse degree
Well you've only yourself to blame for that. If you'd have done a proper degree you wouldn't be so easily upset.
True, hence why I did the MBA at a good school
I'm middle class. My 3 year old son tlod me I couldnt eat a carrot without houmous the other day!
Whats a MBA? I thought people just bought those off the internet?
1. I'm not middle class;
2. I'm glad I'm not middle class.
That's about the most middle class thing you could have said 😉
These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:
1. I'm not middle class*;
2. I'm glad I'm not middle class.
LOLz Mike! Anyone who's been to university (esp our alma mater) is middle class, irrespective of where they came from.
geetee1972 - MemberMy supposition is that there is no such thing as a mickey mouse degree, only mickey mouse people.
There genuinely is a Disney University 😆
3. I'm glad I didn't do a Mickey Mouse degree
BA (Hons) Education (with QTS) from Durham.
I met lots of people at uni who went on to be high flyers in finance. Many of them were arseholes and it was no surprise when everything went tits up.
Meanwhile, I'm earning less than a third of what the chap in the Telegraph earns.
LOLz Mike! Anyone who's been to university (esp our alma mater) is middle class, irrespective of where they came from.
Oh, I totally am. Just not by the standards expressed on this thread or in the Telegraph.
(I don't count you as one of the uni arseholes, by the way.)
Whats a MBA? I thought people just bought those off the internet?
I don't think you can buy them. You can rent them for a bit but it's nothing like as rewarding as doing the real thing that stretches you every which way you can think intellectually and leaves you feeling that you finally understand something about the world of business. It's pretty enlightening and not something that anyone can ever take away from you. Much like any degree one might do, even the so called mickey mouse ones.....
[i]These threads (and articles like the one in the OP) usually make me think:
1. I'm not middle class;
2. I'm glad I'm not middle class.
and
3. I'm glad I didn't do a Mickey Mouse degree[/i]
I've not even got a degree. Degrees are the elite symbol of the Bourgeoisie ruling class.
Meanwhile, I'm earning less than a third of what the chap in the Telegraph earns.
But are you happy and do you enjoy your work? Because if you do then as long as you can make ends meet (and there are lots of people who struggle to do that) you've acheived more than most.
you can think intellectually and leaves you feeling that you finally understand something about the world of business. I
So the fact that I'm a national and global SME in my field of business yet have only 5 gcse's to my name must means that I've tricked my way to the position does it? How did I get here without the degree I wonder eh?
There really is some utter bullshit in this thread, a new high/low even for stw...
I have a mickey mouse phd about flowers.
**** me Kryton where did you get the idea that I had suggested that from?
I've not even got a degree. Degrees are the elite symbol of the Bourgeoisie ruling class.
*whispers*
I've got a postgrad degree too, but it's from a former poly.
*whispers*
Ok apologies it was a bit strong.
There some implications in this thread which appear to be from the strangely deluded e.g.
A) you need a degree to be successful
B) you need to be from a private schooling back ground to earn more money than those that didn't
C) that being squeezed financially is somehow not relative
Odd.
But are you happy and do you enjoy your work? Because if you do then as long as you can make ends meet (and there are lots of people who struggle to do that) you've acheived more than most.
Happier than if I was a financial compliance officer, I'm sure. Doing something I want to do for another 32 year? No.
We just about make ends meet, because we've sensible decisions. We're not paying school fees and we certainly don't ship at Ocado...
I met lots of people at uni who went on to be high flyers in finance. Many of them were arseholes and it was no surprise when everything went tits up.
Likewise. And I ensured I avoided them and their braying friends at all costs.
we certainly don't ship at Ocado...
You should, you might save some money.
A) I have 3 and am not much if a success.
B) You obviously dont need to but it certainly greatly improves your chances.
C) You've lost me.
[i]*whispers*
I've got a postgrad degree too, but it's from a former poly.
*whispers*[/i]
Saved. I went to poly. We played cards and got taught by people who used to work in industry. They had cool stories about machines and engines and foreign ladies. That's an education.
Ok apologies it was a bit strong.There some implications in this thread which appear to be from the strangely deluded e.g.
A) you need a degree to be successful
B) you need to be from a private schooling back ground to earn more money than those that didn't
C) that being squeezed financially is somehow not relativeOdd.
OK so we violently agree then. 😀 These were the exact same points I was making.
we certainly don't ship at Ocado...
You should, you might save some money.
Compared to Morrisons (with a 5% (sometimes 10%) discount card) or Aldi? I doubt it.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, 1.4 million people in the UK are on zero hour contracts whilst another million are self employed out of desperation:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/06/self-employment-uk-job-figures-analysis
It has nothing to do with discount cards mike, but salesman ship / marketing techniques that convince you to spend, and the fuel / wear tear on the vehicle savings also. Perhaps it's not applicable to the uber disciplined with an Aldi next door...