[Closed] Life is all about taking risks...

That'd be the ERGObaby Original that she talks about on her blog?

"...if I had known about this dream of a carrier all along, I would have used it from the outset!
There isn't anything I don't like about this carrier. We have used it from quick runs into the shops, she has napped in it on my back while I do housework, we've had long mountain days together... I've even climbed with her on my back in it. This is about as comfortable as babywearing gets. And it offers the option of having baby on the front or back, something we have taken full advantage of. And while Ffion sits lower on my back in this carrier, she has always been very happy and content in it."

She seems fairly happy with it.

Yeah, brilliant for taking a kid for a walk. Even taking a kid for a walk up a mountain. But rubbish for taking a fall and inverting 20m up a cliff face.

She isn't 20m up, unless her belay guy is hovering, and she hasn't got 20m to go either, unless the photographer is freeclimbing above her.

I'm sure some people read the first post on a thread and then skip to the end to make their voice heard. We'd have a lot fewer circular conversations if they didn't.

IMHO etc.

a very short fall in harness not designed for the job is risky business for a two year old.
i do see that it's up to them so leave em alone etc etc.
but it's crazy if you ask me.

How many people with kids can honestly say they've never taken risks with their kids.

For example driving while tired is pretty darned dangerous (on a level with drink driving according to some studies), and surely very few parents of small babies have never done that?

And much of baby transporting in the early days is optional social stuff so adults can socialise / show off their baby, things like baby groups, visiting relatives and friends etc

So how is that (exposing a baby to an increased risk of death for purely recreational purposes) different to this (exposing a baby to increased risk of death for purely recreational purposes).

Or does no one drive with their babies except to the hospital or other such vital trips?

"driving while tired is pretty darned dangerous"

Do you think anyone goes.... "I'm really tired, so think I'll take the kids for a drive, they'd enjoy that".......

Do you think anyone goes.... "I'm really tired, so think I'll take the kids for a drive, they'd enjoy that".......

You've not got kids, right? People drive babies round in their cars to try to get them to go to sleep, it's incredibly common, like a modern version of rocking the pram. And babies who don't sleep make their parents tired. So whilst they're not doing it for the kids enjoyment exactly, yes, loads of parents drive their kids round whilst probably being a bit more tired than is entirely sensible.

I tried it once but my boy is a contrary little sod and just yelled solidly for 40-odd miles round the edge of the Peak District...

It's hard to judge without seeing the overall climbing situation but I'm not against the idea in principle.

That harness is rubbish ... if she slips and inverts the kid will fall out and fall on its head

I agree + lack of helmet. Poor safety awareness on her part is the real issue here IMO. She seems too inexperienced to be doing this sort of thing.

As someone said, quite possible that she already expressed a desire to do so. Mine certainly would in that situation.

At that point I would say that they would have to wait till they were a little bigger. Being a parent involves not always indulging a child's every desire too. If I could see a benefit for the child that they couldn't get from a nice walk I'd be more likely to agree, but I don't.

<In no way being personal GrahamS - just illustrating this is just where I'd draw my line, where perhaps others wouldn't. >

No problem. I do agree it is a judgement call.
But neither of us were there to make it.

We just don't know the surrounding facts or situation, so it's easy to be drawn into the righteous indignation of the Mail article.

In reality it could be a very easy 5 metre climb that is practically a ladder, which she has climbed hundreds of times before and is less dangerous than the slide in the playground. Some aspects of the photo support that (big ledge to stand on, looks very short, not exactly gripping on for dear life).

Likewise it could be that it really is a sketchy 50m cliff with dangerous loose bits. In which case I'd be the first to agree that she's a bit mental.

If I could see a benefit for the child that they couldn't get from a nice walk I'd be more likely to agree, but I don't.

To me the benefit of something like that over a nice walk is that it is exciting and hopefully teaches her child to be adventurous.

Edit: I see the article has now been edited again to increase shock value. They say she is 30ft up the cliff when the photo was taken. By my estimates her belay guy must be at least 20ft tall.

Do you think anyone goes.... "I'm really tired, so think I'll take the kids for a drive, they'd enjoy that".......

I reckon probably at least 90% of drives with small babies are purely recreational, things like taking them to see grandparents and friends, going to parent and toddler group, off to the park or whatever. And just like taking your kid climbing it is hard to know how much the kid gets out of it.

And unless your baby is the one in a hundred that sleeps well from an early age, it's pretty likely you're dangerously tired.

But pretty much everyone chooses to take that risk, which is a pretty well known and obvious risk.

She isn't 20m up, unless her belay guy is hovering, and she hasn't got 20m to go either, unless the photographer is freeclimbing above her.

They say she is 30ft up the cliff when the photo was taken. By my estimates her belay guy must be at least 20ft tall.

Alternatively the photographer could be using a zoom lens, with the foreshortening effect that gives.

Reading the new version of the article, I reckon she should have stayed quiet - her comments about regretting wearing her helmet (amongst others) aren't exactly encouraging me to want to leave my children in her care. There's a reason why wearing a helmet becomes a 'habit' when climbing - it's because it's always a good idea to wear one. I'm very unconvinced by her risk assessment capability.

There's a reason why wearing a helmet becomes a 'habit' when climbing - it's because it's always a good idea to wear one.

To be fair, wearing a helmet is only a "habit" for mountaineers and begnners, most decent climbers don't bother with one.

"most decent climbers don't bother with one."

Never understood why because falling rocks are indiscriminate!

[img] [/img]
Alison Hargreaves, one of he UK's best women climber.
Lambasted in the tabloids, at the time, for soloing the North face of the Eiger while 6 month pregnant.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/28/gender.familyandrelationships ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/28/gender.familyandrelationships[/url]

I'm surprised it took 4 pages before Alison Hargreaves was mentioned. She really polarised people at the time of her death, in a way male climbers and extreme skiers who have died didn't.

I wonder if there would be so many negative comments here if it was the dad rather than the mum with her on his back?

i'm risk averse, and this photo looks either silly or show-off... I'd love to learn to freefall parachute but decided not to once kids came along. But last year I broke one ski helmet and one cycle helmet, so what am I doing?

Like Boris, I'd be more concerned about the harness than the lid. And I know and have mothers who have been accidentally responsible for the death or disabling of their kids.

No easy answer really, is there?

I wonder if there would be so many negative comments here if it was the dad rather than the mum with her on his back?

If you can find a post which criticises her on that basis, you might have a point - it would certainly make no difference to my perspective, just as I see no difference between Alison Hargreaves and some father of young kids who's got killed doing something dangerous. Actually, if anything I might be even more unimpressed at a bloke doing it.

As a parent of a toddler - no helmet for the kiddy is an epic fail.

When nipper is on the bike the test is would i wear one for that ride. If yes we both wear, if not he gets to choose!

I don't know enough about climbing to assess whether the situation she's in is unacceptably risky.

I'm surprised it took 4 pages before Alison Hargreaves was mentioned. She really polarised people at the time of her death, in a way male climbers and extreme skiers who have died didn't.

She got at but as much s*it, if not more, as this woman got
[img] [/img]
for leaving her grown up childern and husband to to and film on K2.

(for you under 30, that Julie Tullis, first British Woman to top K2)

[b]aracer[/b] we just don't know, do we? Not without a thread which does something similar with a bloke climbing with a kid on his back, and seeing the response. Often people display their unconscious prejudices... errr... unconsciously...

That's why I am "wondering".... 🙄

And I agree - no difference between her and the dad doing that, but people often do set higher expectations for mothers.

She got at but as much s*it, if not more, as this woman got

She sort of deserved it though: 8 months pregnant on a climb that was pretty hard for her, with all sorts of added potential dangers (crap rock, weather etc)

Top roping on an easy climb in the sunshine doesn't really deserve the same response.

Alternatively the photographer could be using a zoom lens, with the foreshortening effect that gives.

Possible, but I don't think so.

I think the belay guy would be more out of focus on a telephoto shot. And the perspective of the rope tapering in from bottom left to the climber suggests (to my eyes) that she is quite close to the camera. Likewise the fact the toddler is looking directly at the camera/photographer and the climber appears to be looking at someone else.

I think the belay guy would be more out of focus on a telephoto shot.

Actually if anything the opposite, as the relative difference in focal distance is smaller.

Likewise the fact the toddler is looking directly at the camera/photographer and the climber appears to be looking at someone else.

Her next hold maybe? 🙄

How about snowboarding at one year old? I know what my boy is getting for his first birthday....

Hmm - she appears to have her own board rather than sitting in the backpack of somebody else boarding.

[i]*Sends snowboarding video to wife*[/i]

Where do you get a board that small though?

Looks like the K2 Lil Kandi Grom pack, but that would be too big:
http://www.boardwise.com/p-8650-k2-lil-kandi-grom-pack-kids-snowboard-package-2012-size-10-boot.aspx

I'm thinking of picking up a pair of these Baby Skis when we take our 22mo to Austria next week:
[img] &width=340&maxHeight=350[/img]
[url] http://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/P/Manbi_GIPRON_Mini_Baby_Skis_60_or_70cm_Red_or_Blue-%2827945%29.aspx [/url]

Burton chopper comes in 80cm

Yeah [url= http://www.boardwise.com/p-8650-k2-lil-kandi-grom-pack-kids-snowboard-package-2012-size-10-boot.aspx ]the Kandi Grom starts at 90cm[/url], but the boots are size 10 so she'd need to wear a lot of socks!

I'm thinking of picking up a pair of these Baby Skis when we take our 22mo to Austria next week:

mini-aracer got a set of those for xmas a year ago - used once on xmas day, and sitting waiting for snow since then. He found them last week and is getting all excited about the idea of getting some more snow to try them on (not that I think we're getting any here). He was almost 4 at the time though - I reckon 22mo might be rather too small for most kids (not sure I'd want our 2 3/4yo on them).

To be fair, wearing a helmet is only a "habit" for mountaineers and begnners, most decent climbers don't bother with one.

Eh? So good climbers don't climb anywhere where helmets are a good idea?
If you mean climbers on very hard overhanging sport routes where things are very unlikely to fall on your head, I take your point.

Some cool tandem snowboard action about a minute in.

used once on xmas day, and sitting waiting for snow since then

Lol, same thing here: we bought a plastic sledge before Xmas that is gathering dust in the shed since. Snow is forecast for this weekend though.

I reckon 22mo might be rather too small for most kids (not sure I'd want our 2 3/4yo on them).

I was mainly planning to just push/drag her about on them on the flat (with me on foot). I think she'd cope with that and hopefully find it quite fun. Think that'd be okay or are they just too hard for kids that age?

Just trying to think of things to do with her while I'm on daddy day care in Schladming.

We could (re)start a debate on whether it's a good idea to take your baby/toddler on a ski trip.... I remember an epic thread along those lines a fair while ago.

Yeah I think [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/leaving-a-10-month-old-with-in-laws-for-a-week ]the consensus last year on here[/url] was we were horrible selfish parents for considering leaving her with grandparents, and even worse for taking her, and should probably have her taken off us for having a quiet drink in the hotel bar while she slept in the room 🙄

We're a bit surer of ourselves these days. She'll have a good time.

I was mainly planning to just push/drag her about on them on the flat (with me on foot). I think she'd cope with that and hopefully find it quite fun. Think that'd be okay or are they just too hard for kids that age?

Just trying to think of things to do with her while I'm on daddy day care in Schladming.

I did drag mini-aracer around on them a bit (me on XC skis), but I think they'd have been a waste just for that - better off with a sledge. Not really worth it until they can at least get around a bit themselves - I should also point out that mini-aracer didn't find it all that easy standing on them getting pulled around.

Hmmmm... okay, I might just stick with the sledge then.

Though I have a feeling she'll see other folk on skis and demand to have go. 😀

[i]"Myturn. Myturn. MYturndaddeeeee. Daaaaadeee... Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze"[/i] etc etc etc 🙂

Though I have a feeling she'll see other folk on skis and demand to have go.

Take a babycarrier backpack? 😉

I'd actually be fine boarding with her in a backpack (on easy runs natch) - but she's not that keen on backpacks and yeah, I'd want a helmet for her!

I have taken my 2yo on training rides. I discovered I'd improved quite a bit doing speed intervals and going alarmingly quickly even with the trailer on the back.

I'd actually be fine boarding with her in a backpack

Heh, ace. Just for heaven's sake don't let anyone post pics on the internet...

Living your life to the 'consensus'. Jesus.

Good for the lady sticking it to The High and Mighty.

As a parent of a toddler - no helmet for the kiddy is an epic fail.

When nipper is on the bike the test is would i wear one for that ride. If yes we both wear, if not he gets to choose!