[Closed] Life if your dog kills someone, a ban if your car does?

You're missing the same thing I am mate.

Yes, "we" are drivers who have momentary lapses of concentration, could happen to anyone your honour, didn't mean any harm. "They" are dangerous dog breeding council estate scroungers who deserve to be punished.

On the upside, it sounds like a pretty effective deterent for folks who like to big themselves up by owning [s]throat-ripping, ankle crushing, spit hurling mega beasts from hell[/s] big, tough dogs.

Interesting the old boy on BBC this morning said your dog attacking someone/thing was like driving your car at them/it. Well, not really - dog is a hell of a lot less dangerous.

perhaps the government would like to consult cyclists with a view to changing the rules of the road.

about 15 people dead in 8years from dog attacks.
how many cyclists dead this year from hgv attack in london?

The key difference is the voters they are appealing to own cars but not 'dangerous' dogs. Ie throw the chav scum in jail but let the middle classes off with just a slap on the wrist.....

Sixteen people have been killed by dogs in the UK since 2005.

There have been 19,500 road deaths in the same period. Knee jerk anyone?

Even taking into account the numbers (~8 million dogs vs ~35 million vehicles), that's a staggering over reaction!

<shakes head>

[i]throw the chav scum in jail [/i]

No problem with that 😉

bails - Member
Yes, "we" are drivers who have momentary lapses of concentration, could happen to anyone your honour, didn't mean any harm. "They" are dangerous dog breeding council estate scroungers who deserve to be punished.

THAT, my friend, is a 5* quote and I will be using as much as possible.

Thank you.

its just another pointless headline grabber from the government (along with high profile harassing of brown folks at tube stations, bashing benefit scroungers etc)
all goes back to torry panic over ukip

sad thing is I uspect that itll go down well with the elctorate

I can't see my spaniel ever killing anyone so I think I'm safe.

There is a difference as there is no real need to won certain breeds of dogs but accidents do happen when driving.

BUT

I do think that driving offences are dealt with badly and there should be much more lifetime bans given out. I think the driving test should be harder too and possibly done in several tests that include motorways not one high stress one.

As a cyclist the amount of times I have been bitten and chased by dogs is numerous. There are so many irresponsible owners out there that let dogs off the lead that know they hate bikes etc. This quite often leads to problems with the owners as they 9/10 turn out to be morons if they are letting a dangerous dog off the lead. Any increase in the punishment for killer dog owners is 100% welcome. It might make some owners stop & think. I don't understand the significance of comparing this to another different type of crime?

It won't become law and - even if it does - people won't actually get life sentences. As such, it's attention grabbing tat designed for the ears of voters who dream of safe, friendly neighbourhoods, like we had in the 1950s.

On the other hand, there's dogs and there's dogs. I wouldn't mind seeing some hefty punishments doled out to owners of red-eyed hell hounds that, at some point, will scent blood and go bananas all over the place.

[i]I don't understand the significance of comparing this to another different type of crime? [/i]

Priorities innit. Why mess around fixing an issue which has a very small impact (comparatively), while simultaneously ignoring the huge massive great elephant in the room which is 20,000 dead people.

It has got me thinking that the anti-dog campaign has been interesting, though. They singled out particular breeds of dog to accuse of being inherently dangerous, regardless of any evidence.

Maybe, just maybe, we could do something similar? I wonder how much more action would be possible if we were to start accusing certain makes of vehicle (BMW? Iveco?) of being inherently dangerous to cycles? If it was a sustained campaign, I wonder how the PR departments of the targeted makes would react? Would it help bring things to the forefront of the minds of those that can change things?

Or am I just thinking weird stuff again?

Rachel

I'm gonna teach my dog to drive....

[i]As a cyclist the amount of times I have been bitten and chased by dogs is numerous[/i]

Really? Blimey in 25 years I can count the number of times on er, well, 2 fingers... and one of them was a very noisy but very tiny terrier!

They singled out particular breeds of dog to accuse of being inherently dangerous, regardless of any evidence.

I think that previous cases of death-by-large-rabid-muscle-dog is the evidence you're looking for.

[i]They singled out particular breeds of dog to accuse of being inherently dangerous, regardless of any evidence.[/i]

Blind bloke's guide dog got attacked by one from what I could make out. (Wasn't paying the maximum of attention)

I can't see my spaniel ever killing anyone so I think I'm safe.

Perfect example of the atitude stated above

A recent study carried out on 6,000 dogs and their owners found out 33 of the most aggressive dogs, and also those which have good temperaments. The study involved collecting data from two different groups. The first group consisted of 11 different breeds and the second was an online survey mainly involving owners, including 33 breeds. The conclusions from both groups were similar. It looked at the different types of aggression such as towards other dogs, towards strangers and towards owners. Some of the results were surprising, below are the top ten most aggressive breed:

Dachshunds
Chihuahua
Jack Russell
Australian Cattle Dog
Cocker Spaniel
Beagle
Border Collie
Pit Bull Terrier
Great Dane
English Springer Spaniel

there is no doubt that the 1991 dangerous dogs act was one of the worst thought out laws - ever.

im with you Rachel, big dogs kill, big trucks kill

2014 Dangerous Trucks Act. Its got a nice ring to it eh?

While aggression levels might be true, only a couple of those dogs are capable of killing someone.

Yeah, a Chihuaha might have an almighty pog on, but it's not gonna tear some kid's arm off.

Most of the "deaths" I have seen in the news have been toddlers, most of the dogs in the list could kill a toddler. It's only the pit bulls that get reported because they are devil dogs 🙄

Whereas pit bulls are really just misunderstood, MSP?

[i]Pit Bull Terrier[/i]

I thought they were banned anyway?

Strange how the dogs that this is aimed at are the ones I have had least problems with, I have been chased and bitten by Jack Russells, Labradors, Border Collies, Yorkshire Terriers and Poodles, never by a Staffie, Alsation, Rottweiler etc so am hoping that any change to the law is across the patch and not just the 'alleged' dangerous dogs

Whereas pit bulls are really just misunderstood, MSP?

Mainly so, yes. I would rather be near a properly trained pit bull, than a badly trained border collie.

@ votchy - that's a good point

My one experience with mutt-violence was a sudden attack from the pub dog in my old village. It was a red setter... and apparently red setters are always placid, loving Buddhist dogs - as dog-lovers keep telling me.

This blighter wasn't and I still have the noughts and crosses scars on my hand to testify that red setters are blood-lusting thugs. At least one was. 👿

Mainly so, yes. I would rather be near a well trained pit bull, than a badly trained border collie.

You're possibly right. The guy-gangs I see hanging around in my home area don't seem to have good obedience training at the forefront of their minds, though.

By lack of evidence, I wasn't saying dogs don't attack, I was saying there's little evidence that one particular breed is more likely to attack than another, after taking other factors into consideration (like the chav-factor of the owner)

Perfect example of the atitude stated above

But you are incorrectly assuming that MY spaniel correlates to the average in those 'studies'.

So therefore my a[b]tt[/b]itude is correct and you can shove that comment up your bottom!

allthegear - apologies. Reading back on that, my comment feels unduly abrasive.

We have plenty of Tory-sterotyped chav gangs with mahoosive dogs straining on leashes in our area. Our neighbour has one, who (the owner said, to reassure me) "only goes for strangers or people he thinks are threatening me". 😯

Needless to say, this scares my son sh!tless and mrscamo16, too.

Now, I'm a dog person by and large, but some of these beasts are tragedies waiting to happen.

gofasterstripes - Member

bails - Member
Yes, "we" are drivers who have momentary lapses of concentration, could happen to anyone your honour, didn't mean any harm. "They" are dangerous dog breeding council estate scroungers who deserve to be punished.

THAT, my friend, is a 5* quote and I will be using as much as possible.

Thank you.

Best judge the situation first though eh? If someone askes you if 'you want fries with that?', pick a different response.

+1 op

As a cyclist the amount of times I have been bitten and chased by dogs is numerous.

I have been chased and bitten by Jack Russells, Labradors, Border Collies, Yorkshire Terriers and Poodles

seriously? WTF do you do tie steaks to your ankles?
I was nipped by a terrier as young kid and once took my mums Cairn to the vets and the vet for some unknown reason shoved his finger up her arse and she turned round and bit me, which I couldn't really blame her for, other than that I have never been bitten and cannot think of a time I have been chased either on my bike or not.

Dunno....

TBH I'm more likely to be bitten by a dog then eat a takeaway that comes with fries.

As a cyclist the amount of times I have been bitten and chased by dogs is numerous

Really? Blimey in 25 years I can count the number of times on er, well, 2 fingers... and one of them was a very noisy but very tiny terrier!

I suspect it's the area I ride being the nearest woodland to a major city and attracting huge amounts of dog owners. As a paper boy i used to get chased daily and sometimes worse. Often outside of the owners property. I find collies the worst for actual biting. I suspect the nip on the ankle is the herding instint in them.

@allthegear - what about Audi or would that disadvantage too great a proportion of STWers?

I like the idea of a concerted campaign, if anyone does decide to kick it off then use social media to get the message out and be relentless. The good pr departments will be tracking their #tags and watching for negative comments. We used this on BT when they dicked us about last year, it was surprising how quickly they acted in order to pacify us.

I'm gonna teach my dog to drive....

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

what if your dog kills someone that is attacking you???

You get life, the 'someone' doesn't.

What if your dog attacks a car?

What if your dog attacks someone who is attacking you with a car [with open windows - let's keep this plausible]?

Oh, the possibilities!

What if your dog attacks someone who is attacking you with a car [with open windows - let's keep this plausible]?

Oh, the possibilities!

A completely different law shall apply to Ninja Dog

[img] [/img]

Strange how the dogs that this is aimed at are the ones I have had least problems with, I have been chased and bitten by Jack Russells, Labradors, Border Collies, Yorkshire Terriers and Poodles

I'm not saying you bring it on yourself, but I've been arround dogs since I was a toddler (and probably before that, but I don't remember)and whilst you get the odd one run up on the trails shouting it's head off (lets face it, mountainbikers look wierd and probably smell funny too) I've never been chased, bitten or attacked on the bike or anywhere else.

How about compulsory dog training. No certificate, no dog & a fine. Won't solve everything but might encourage a bit more thought before buying a dog. Bit beyond a licence type scheme and will at least ensure the "dangerous" dogs have had some training.

TRY TELLING DOG VADER WHAT HE CAN & CANT DO...

[img] http://beancounters.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451d8a369e20105367fe053970b-800wi [/img]

It has got me thinking that the anti-dog campaign has been interesting, though. They singled out particular breeds of dog to accuse of being inherently dangerous, regardless of any evidence.

Maybe, just maybe, we could do something similar? I wonder how much more action would be possible if we were to start accusing certain races, nationalities, or religions of being inherently dangerous?

Or am I just thinking weird stuff again?

Rachel

FTFY

Yup, weird stuff. You're a sick sick woman. 😉

6500 hospital admission due to dog attacks in 2011-12.
Over 1000 of which were the under 10's.

just been listening on the radio about this and was amazed at the amount of postal workers attacked, the communications union even commissioned a report on it!. in fairness they reckon it should be the same as death by dangerous driving for fatal attacks and the same as death by careless driving for serious injuries which would be 14 yrs and 4 yrs ( if I remember correctly). no mention was made of breeds etc or indeed 'types of owner', so I guess it would apply to all.

I think there is plenty of evidence singling out particular breeds of dog by looking at the occasions where dogs have attacked people - its usually the same two or so breeds. It stands to reason that if a dog decides to attack then a Pit Bull is going to do far more damage than a Chihuahua. I accept that the owners have a significant part to play in this, but some breeds of dog have been bred specifically for their viciousness, so stick them with irresponsible owners is a recipe for disaster. This reminds me of the 'Guns don't kill people, people do' argument in defence of widespread gun ownership. Technically correct, but misses the point.

andyl - Member
I can't see my spaniel ever killing anyone so I think I'm safe.

Never, ever become complacent or underestimate the potential of any dog to harm you - even a dog you know and love. Many years ago I was nearly killed by our childhood pet - a spaniel. I was sleeping peacefully in my bed and she came in my bedroom and got on the bed and fell asleep. We could never have imagined what would happen next - her attack was vicious and without mercy - without rapid medical response I could have died. We don't know what made her do it - we were never able to identify the cause. She passed wind and I was nearly simultaneously poisoned and suffocated. Without rapid intervention from my thankfully medical professional father - sensing the danger and running to ventilate my room by opening a window, I wouldn't be here today. Lesson learned.

😆

The dog diarrhea story on the "I've crapped my pants and I want to tell you about it" thread was clearly an attempt to kill.

I can't believe what I'm reading.

[img] [/img]

if it was down to me I find out which breeds were responsible for 90% of the attacks and ban them and terminate them. There is no more reason to own a pitbull than an AKA 47. Don't tell me its the owners not the dogs fault. Don't tell me its cruel when some dog chews your babies face off in the park. I'm sick of reading stories like this

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21951289 ]link[/url]

There are very few things that get me mad but dangerous dogs is one of them.

Since becoming a dog owner ( west highland terrier) I have to say I find walking him an incredibly anxiety fuelled occurrence. I've never, as far as I can remember had an issue with dogs but since owning one myself I endlessly come across owners with much much bigger dogs who will happily let their dogs run up to you, without a lead, and start play fighting with my dog, jumping up me. I would never allow my dog off his lead or to jump up someone, not because he is aggressive or likely to run away ( although he probably would do a runner) but because I'm aware that many people are just nervous of dogs and dogs by their very nature can be temperamental so would never want to put myself in that sort of position or make any assumptions.

Why people think its perfectly acceptable to allow their dogs to run up to people and jump up people is beyond me. For me it just seems like an element of the entitlement culture again. I have a dog I am therefore entitled to allow him off his lead and I am entitled to allow him to jump up you....

Anyway, yeah. If you can't control your dog and your dog does go as far to kill someone then your likely to be the sort of person who's better off out of the way of other human beings.

I would be fairly sure that the breeds you would select by your well thought out method would just be the most common. Lets just kill 90% of dogs I'm sure that would be more effective.

To be fair it's not the dogs it's the muppets that own them and cannot control them, or more to the point don't even know how ot control them / look after them /train them correctly 🙄

I would imagine people allow their friendly dogs to run up to you as they presume a dog owner isnt scared of dogs or maybe even likes dogs seems they are wrong. I pity your poor dog thats never let off a lead.

If they'd thought it through a bit, rather than the knee jerk reaction it is, they could have changed the law to make it compulsory to license dog ownership and the fee geared toward 'risk' factor of the dog, same as they should license child birth, stop paying the chavs more benefit the more kids they breed, do it the other way round, a) charge them to breed and b)charge them more, the more they breed.

Wow I bet that took you ages to work out. Good going you must be a genius.

Another attack by a Rottweiler on a two year old tonight.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-23593566 ]link[/url]

Blaming the owners is the same argument the american right spout to justify the gun laws in the US. we have a fraction the gun crime they have as we have fewer guns. Look no Rottweilers no 2 year old little girls mauled in their own homes. If you thought about it rationally if somebody brought in a new species that wasn't a dog that caused the same damage these dogs do they be banned in a instant. Its just dogs and the dog lobby are ingrained in our society.

This forum is full of anger for car drivers involved in accidents with cyclists, yet dogs put twice as many people in hospital than cyclists accidents involving other vehicles.

If you thought about it rationally if somebody brought in a new species that wasn't a dog that caused the same damage these dogs do they be banned in a instant. Its just dogs and the dog lobby are ingrained in our society.

truth right here and this can be applied to many, many problems in the world right now.

Stainypants - Member
Another attack by a Rottweiler on a two year old tonight.

That's the same part of Rotherham where a cyclist was attacked with table legs last week!!!!

6500 hospital admission due to dog attacks in 2011-12.
Over 1000 of which were the under 10's.

The way most kids seem to poke and prod dogs I'm surprised that's not higher.

I would imagine people allow their friendly dogs to run up to you as they presume a dog owner isnt scared of dogs or maybe even likes dogs seems they are wrong. I pity your poor dog thats never let off a lead.

Presumptions you say? Responsible and considerate dog owner you say? Oh...

my dog only bites you if your a bad person*

*or smeared with Pâté

The reporting around some of these news stories is frequently sensationalist and does not give the full story.

I frequently have to ask the parents of kids for them not to just run up to my dog and start mithering him - he is a very gentle dog, and has never bitten or even growled at anybody, but I don't know if he might - if he is irritated, too hot, feels threatened etc, and I get terribly nervous if children surround him, because I know it would be my fault if he attacked.

Parents should teach their kids to ask an owner before they come and pet a dog, or that the parents should ask. If I see small children when I'm out, I put him on a lead. I have previously had to actually physically remove a child who was pulling my dog's fur and would not stop when asked (former partner's friend's kid) and got an earful from the mother, I asked if she would rather risk her kid getting bitten by a Rottweiler, and she shut up rather quickly. Of course, these news stories rarely report that Little Johnny/Jenny might have done something to provoke a dog, or that idiot parents let their kids go up to dogs they don't know and stick their hands out right in front of their mouths.

As a responsible dog owner, it is always a worry that your dog might do something unpredictable, but it is also always a worry that people might do something unpredictable around your dog, and it will be your fault. Most dog owners try their best to avoid it, but the minority idiots give us a bad name.

Presumptions you say? Responsible and considerate dog owner you say? Oh...

nope I said one of those things

stupid idea for a law and is never going to happen, its just headline grabbing crap, made to excite the mindless plebs.

Any law that could send you to prison for life in the event of someone breaking into your house when you are out, and your dog causing them fatal injuries (which might not be caused by biting, but simply by knocking them over) just isn't going to happen by a Tory government.

As for my dog could *never* kill anyone, people are surprising fragile, if your dog knocked someone over and they banged their head they could (and do) die, the dog doesn't have to maul them to kill someone.

I think we need a dangerous human act. Basically, if your a parent and your child of any age (0-99) attacks someone in the street / pub / etc you can go to prison for life. It might stop the chavs breeding.

Piemonster, you know, somehow I just knew it would be the fault of the kids.

Won't somebody blame the children?!