[Closed] Liberal Democrats, can they stop Brexit?

mattyfez - Member
*news flash *

UKIP are redundant now. They were a one trick pony, The Conservatives have moved slightly to the right and authitaian position and pinched all thier voters.

kelvin - Member

Define 'you lot'?

I think by "you lot", he just means the British.

That's my translation, anyway,

There are British and there are British EU bureaucrats apologists, but guess which one I am referring to ... 😆

British - you certainly seem to want to hurt Britain

@kimbers
Some folks, like hospital doctors, have had inflation outstripping wage growth for a while. 0.28% in 2014. 1% for 2017. And that might well be 1% awarded in 2 parts over the year like past years.

http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/DDRB_recommends_pay_rise_of_1%2525_for_doctors

Legally/theoretically yes, it would require the approval of the other 27 EU members. The Lib Dems may have to agree to other new conditions, eg abolish budget rebate, full Schengen, join the euro ?

The Lib Dems are targetting in increase from 9 to 18 seats. They are going to fail. They could get less than 9, senior party figures are speaking up that the anti-Brexit message is not working

That legality Jamba is still being tested is it not?

The reality is that legality wouldn't matter. The law is a minimum standard that you can go beyond.

igm - Member
British - you certainly seem to want to hurt Britain

You (remainders) are trying to pawn/sell UK/British to the EU bureaucrats for your own interest.

Silly goose. 😆

The Lib Dems are targetting in increase from 9 to 18 seats. They are going to fail. They could get less than 9, senior party figures are speaking up that the anti-Brexit message is not working

I find myself agreeing with Jamba yet again.

I fully expect Lib Dems to lose as many seats as they gain as the UKIP/Tory vote merges in the seats they're defending and targeting.

The message isn't working because people genuinely believe that Brexit is a done deal, because most papers and the leadership of the two main parties have kept pushing home the message that it is. It isn't.

Most surveys show that a very large majority now think that Brexit now has to happen, even though the same surveys show that a small majority think it's a mistake.[b] A mistake that has to happen. [/b]That's how easily led we Brits are.

but guess which one I am referring to ...

Guessing what on earth you're on about is rarely worth the effort.

The main jist this time seems to be that you think [b]we[/b] Brits shouldn't get to vote on [b]our[/b] future.

Of course it's a mistake.

Only the religious fanatics (yes Chewkw, ninfan, Jamba, I'm talking about those who would sacrifice Britain's future on the altar of xenophobic nationalism) still approve of Brexit.

Edit: just been walking back in the sunshine with my German neighbour.

The meaningful vote thing is actually a good policy, just a shame nobody had the balls to force it through with the A50 bill as it would have at least made who was negotiating/flouncing have to think a little harder.
At this stage they probably do need a leaders debate, one to show all May really has is pointing at JC and going full pantomime.

kelvin - Member
The main jist this time seems to be that you think we Brits shouldn't get to vote on our future.

igm - Member
Only the religious fanatics (yes Chewkw, ninfan, Jamba, I'm talking about those who would sacrifice Britain's future on the altar of xenophobic nationalism) still approve of Brexit.

Second the one thing that the SNP would insist on as part of any deal would be a referendum on independence.

Of course Labour could never enter a coalition with them as they stole all their Scottish seats and there is way too much resentment for that.

I'm not seeing any strategy from the Conservatives.

Eh? Does "lining their own pockets" not count as a strategy?

You can have your moment, your victory, I'm quite relaxed about it...these next few years will be all about giving you brexiters just enough rope to hang yourselves with.

If only they would (hang themselves) literally or metaphorically. However, instead they'll just blame someone else when the UK doesn't miraculously return to a 1950s empire ruling, white only, dystopian fantasy....

I'm pretty sure a lot of them wouldn't be able to tie the knot properly either.

Death by strangulation isn't pretty.

And we get to yet add another subject to the (very) long list of things that Chewkw doesn't understand.

When they find out that Muslamia isn't actually a country and isn't actually in europe and they won't actually be affected by any extra immigration barriers the old people in this country might changet their minds.

And we get to yet add another subject to the (very) long list of things that Chewkw doesn't understand.

What, cycling?

I'm not seeing any strategy from the Conservatives.

It's called business as usual ie continue to minise taxation for non-doms, corporations and the rich in general. All of whom will benefit, from reduced labour costs, as the UK continues it's transition to a low skill, low wage, zero job security economy.

Simple answer is 'No,' sadly I don't think they'll get enough seats to make a differnece. I'm somewhat torn by what to do with my vote, always voted lib dem but a) I'm not convinced by Tim Farron and b) last time the conservatives won by me with a handful of votes (well three handfulls actually) so might actually make a difference voting labour. But I don't believe Corbyn will do anything useful to moderate Brexit anyway.

I honestly think that if the referendum was re-run now, it would be quite a significant win for remain. I doubt anyone would be protesting if the government threw out Brexit.

Re tactical voting I always used to say it was cobblers, vote for who you want, this time around I'm thinking it might actually be a good idea.

@chewkw:

Once again, fact confused with personal assertion without any citation to support your point.

You (remainders) sold out to EU bureaucrats in the name of whatever you think suits you

Celebrate what exactly?

But in the meantime can you (EU bureaucrats supporters) not let us celebrate, enjoy and savor the moment for few generations to come ...

Seriously, what's there to celebrate? I hear a great deal about "taking back control" but no-one has been able to articulate exactly what that means.

ghostlymachine - Member
And we get to yet add another subject to the (very) long list of things that Chewkw doesn't understand.

Other than simply saying something I am sure you are incapable of listing them ... 😆

oldnpastit - Member
What, cycling?

PJM1974 - Member
@chewkw:

Once again, fact confused with personal assertion without any citation to support your point.

Seriously, what's there to celebrate? I hear a great deal about "taking back control" but no-one has been able to articulate exactly what that means.

Celebration can come in many forms so guess what I am referring to ...

mikewsmith - Member

Celebration can come in many forms so guess what I am referring to ...

I can only assume we really don't want to to be looking at your web cam right now.

I guess your celebrating paying more taxes or your employer paying more to employ you? Well done have a cookie.

There is zero chance of the SNP going into coaltion with anyone at westminster. what they would do is a supply and confidence deal

There is zero chance of

Nope - on this one itws as cear and certain as anything can be.

1) the tribalism of scttish labour means they will not accept a coalition with the SNP - look at the situation in Scotland where most of the councils have no overall control and labour are doing deals with the tories to keep the SNP out and 2) the SNP would not want to be hamstrung in the way the lib dems were.

Supply and confidence deal is possible. Coalition is simply not politically possible nor desirable for anyone

I'll still wait to see the question asked. It's about delivering the best you can and how you do that. Anyone setting out rules before is an idiot.

realpolitik is the reason

there is no advantage to either labour or the snp in a formal coalition. Supply and confidence deal is the only possible answer

[quote=mattyfez ]The lib dems seem to have rulled out any coalition though, I guess they are still burned from the university fees fiasco, which was a tory policy and they were a minority in the lib tory coalition, and they seemed to take all the flack for it, even from thier own supporters.
In my view that's very narrow minded, they kept the torys in check for the most part and did an incredible job, but something had to give, given thier secondary status in the coalition.

There does still seem to be a lot of stupidity over this. The LibDems played realpolitik, got a new student loans arrangement which made it a far more progressive "tax" with only those graduates in highly paid jobs worse off, yet apparently this is bad because they broke a promise and that outweighs all the good things they did.

Thing is Aracer - by entering coalition and declaring they were in it for 5 years the lib dems gave away all their power. S&D does not commit you to voting for all tory policies - just those in the manifesto. If the lib dems had done this we would not have seen the selloff of the post office cheap and a lot of other things

et apparently this is bad because they broke a promise and that outweighs all the good things they did.

The level to which they betrayed their supporters is going to take a long time to recover from by the looks of it. With them being the only UK party that are clearly anti-Brexit I thought they'd be able to recover at least some of the ground they lost when it became clear they were turncoat scum that'd do anything for a sniff of power and a couple of ministerial cars, however that's not looking to be the case.

If the lib dems had done this we would not have seen the selloff of the post office cheap and a lot of other things

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

I said this before they went into coalition. It was obvious then they were doing the wrong thing and it was a very close decision in the lib demns with many senior figures saying coalition ws wrong.

Doesn't work that way silly goose coz we are on interweb ...

I disagree hugely on many levels with Jamba for example, but he will extend the courtesy of supporting his argument with citations.

It's a funny thing, although sites like 4chan might encourage the "anything goes" attitude to conversation, the rules here have been set out at the very top of the forum page. I'll quote:

[i]Respect for everyone is paramount. If we see evidence or have good reason to believe that you are looking to get a rise or to deliberately force a reaction from any other users (Trolling) then we will stop you.[/i]

You do understand it is such a joy to debate with you lot (reminders) don't you? Celebration can come in many forms so guess what I am referring to ...

Once again, the moderators have rules to ensure that debate is respectful without stifling lively conversation. I would suggest that repeatedly making an assertion in a thread without supporting evidence for that point of view merely to get a rise out of forum members is crossing that line.

[i]If you are here to chat, respectfully debate issues or ask genuine questions of the thousands of users who come here then you are welcome to stay and we have no doubts you will add positively to our huge community.[/i]

As I've said, there are a number of people on here who often hold a view that's contrary, but they seem to be able to support that view with citations. While there may be disagreement, at least there's the opportunity to understand another's point of view. With yourself, there's nothing aside from assertions. From my part, I'm trying to encourage positive discussion without resorting to repetition.

mikey74 - Member
I honestly think that if the referendum was re-run now, it would be quite a significant win for remain. I doubt anyone would be protesting if the government threw out Brexit.

I honestly think your talking nonsense. I doubt you have even considered your wrong.

Back to the discussion in hand.

The intractability of the Leave camp, this snippet from the Independent after the vote is telling:

[i]Whenever pollsters ask the public to name the most important issue facing the country, Europe and sovereignty never come anywhere near the top of the list, trailing well behind the likes of immigration, the condition of the NHS and the health of the economy. There was no mass popular clamour for last week’s referendum.[/i]

The Liberals are in grave danger of becoming a one policy party, a reverse UKIP if you like.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to make a compelling argument to vote Liberal, however the tactical vote in my constituency dictates that this would be my only viable option. As before, I remain proudly pro-European, but I am hugely critical of the way successive British governments have treated an increasing number of people who've not enjoyed the economic successes so loudly crowed by the centre-right since 1979 (and I include the ones who wore red ties in parliament as well as those who preferred blue).

Well said pjm

I think the only thing that can stop brexit is Brexit,
once those that voted for it see that it's not going to make life better, infact worse then - if there's still time! it could be reversed.

Kimbers one point to bear in mind is that a large majority of voters are thick as pigshit. They'll believe what they are told by the daily mail, so it's a matter of what the DM tells them rather than any realisation on the part of the voters.

The electorate has largely bought in to false notions of "sovereignty" and opinion polls seem to suggest that the hardcore Leave camp would be happy to be 10% poorer if it means an end to immigration.

The sources are google-able.

We're seeing the right wing press make some quite astonishing volte-face manoeuvres, those once were all in favour of access to markets that will be closed to us. It's a fallacy that we'll simply swap a marketplace that exists twenty six miles from our shore for ones thousands of miles away, without migration being a hot topic.

But back to the liberals - they'd have an idea opportunity to present a radical manifesto and to go for broke, they'd win seats for certain, but Farron seems to lack that extra imagination and intellect to articulate how the party might exploit the current polarised political landscape.

"I honestly think that if the referendum was re-run now, it would be quite a significant win for remain"
😆
Not where I look.

"infact worse then"
One assumes that you are a multi lottery winner with your ability to read the tea leaves.
No one knows, its all best guesses.

Some guesses are better than others.

Brexit will hurt poor people.

Rich people will profit.

I'm probably just on the profit side of the line but not by much.

May really doesn't have to try as when she ****s it all up she can say " well you voted for it".