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So, say 'a mate' worked in a public sector leisure centre type place, and it tested positive for Legionaires'. The building immediately goes into lockdown and no public are allowed in.
The staff still have to come in for shifts, pick sludge off part of the site which is lubricated by the affected water, and are expected to clean the building from top to bottom, also using water from the affected system. There is no hot water - it has been turned off as apparently it is only the hot water which is affected, so staff cannot wash their hands properly.
Hypothetically, could my mate refuse to go into work? He has a PVH contract (hours as and when required) and doesn't really need the pocket money. Other staff had a meeting with the union rep today (unassociated matters) and all agreed to keep the matter secret(!).
He just feels it may not be entirely safe and has been kept somewhat in the dark - he doesn't even officially know why the place is closed to the public....
What do you think?
He could call in sick?
Sounds a bit odd but it depends where the legionella is if its a risk. I would want to know more and be asking awkward questions about risk assessments and so on
Employing company should have done a risk assessment for the hazards to those cleaning up, Method statments to say how the work will be done and a COSHH assessment of any chemicals they have to use and are legally obliged to provided PPE appropriate to the risks identified in the risk assessment.
If in doubt contact the HSE... *shudders*
It seems possible that the positive test is confined to just one area of the building (showers) but a girl working for Northumbrian water has told him that he should be safe if he [i]doesn't use the taps[/i]....!
The test samples are seemingly sent off to a lab where they are grown for at least a week to see if they are OK or life-threatening. My mate's worry is that he will have been working there for a week by the time the test results come back. He can't afford to get ill (or die) as he has another, full time job.
Well, according to my notes H&S says that hot and cold water (or warm water), soap and a means to dry your hands should be provided on site.
We had legionaires in the showers at work. Warm water, humid, tiny droplets is an ideal breeding ground from what i know. Guess that's why it used to crop up lots in the old water drop cooling systems for hopsitals and the like.
I have found that asking to see the risk assessments and method statements for a particularly dodgy task is a good way of getting people to back down quickly...
There should be a risk assessment and based on the findings a Written Scheme (system of work). The Scheme should document a daily/weekly/monthly/annual inspection, monitoring and cleaning regime specfic to the water system. This may include general microbiological monitoring or actual legionella sampling, and what actions to be taken if legionella is identified along with protection of personnel.
All advice noted, thanks - will pass it on 🙂 Just doesn't seem sensible to be splashing water around all over the place in a building where Legionellas have been found, much less picking sludge out of an affected area (apparently, they love matter build up).
The hand washing issue is relevant as a lot of the work is very dirty.
Splashing water around shouldn't be a problem if the water's below a certain temperature. It's warm water
aerosolising with the Legionella bacteria in it that's the problem. I have a sink at work that I use for cleaning my plate and film processors and the H&S bloke checked the temperature on the supply for just that reason. Said it's perfectly ok splashing it around because it's a cold supply.
Make sure the person who drew up the plan knows what he or she is doing.
be thankful. in the council building i work in they had an "occurance" and subsequently all council buildings in the region have their temperature checked weekly, and the temperature turned up.
All hot taps now kick out water hot enough to give you a REALLY nasty burn within 10 seconds. subsequently, no one washes their hands properly.
have a read of HSE ACOP L8 and the employers guide, available as free PDF from the HSE website
It's also worth noting, that just because a system has tested positive for [i]legionella sp.[/i] doesn't mean that it's high risk. The usual way to treat is to chlorinate the system to kill the bacteria and then flush through.
note: cold supply will usually be mains fed so will not pose a risk. Anything that has a tank or a chance for water to sit in the pipes and stagnate at a nice temperature with a nutrient source is well away for bacterial growth. If you then have the capacity to aerosolise the water in a fine mist that can be inhaled you then are on the way to something more interesting
I work for a water treatment company supplying Legionella control equipment and services (I sound like I'm trying to sell ha ha).
The HSE ACOP L8 is what needs to be considered by building designers and owners pre and post build for preventitive and remedial actions and will include risk assesments and details of mandatory testing and checks that are carried out.
I can assure you it is a LARGE can of worms and opinion on a public forum will just send you crazy, it does me and I live it daily!
If your friend is concerned go to the HSE website, search and download the above mentioned document and ask him or her to have a read - it is a pretty friendly document to waste some time reading.
Enjoy!
Just beaten to it lol but basicly check L8 as it's not always doom and gloom 🙂
Legionella has to be inhaled into the lungs as an aerosol in order to be hazardous. It is once in the lungs that toxins are released which attack the tissue of the alveoli.
Hot water should be frequently above 60C as this will very rapidly kill off legionella. Below 20C for cold water and you will slow down growth of the organism considerably. Cold may not be completely effective as no-one is 100% sure what the infectious dose is.
You could drink water containing legionella without any significant risk. It has been around in the environment for thousands of years without causing problems, it it us who have provided the habitat and the means of infection.
Keep the aerosol risk down and/or respirator and your mate should fine and dandy.
Matt
You only catch it if you breath it in
Normally more chance of catching it under a shower as the water sprays out
and everyone at home or work place should undo and clean the shower head.
They need to Pasteurize the header tank and also clean and treat it with Chloroform
Make sure they do a water test Hot & Cold One day every week on ALL taps and showers
This is what the NHS have to do and should run at a certain Heat and Cold temperature.
Also they need to check for old dog legs/pipes that are not being used has these
can arbour the Legionnaire
Apart from that he should be ok to go into work
Grand! The font of all knowledge comes up trumps again! Cheers to all - will have a look at the L8 PDF and keep away from the showers...