[Closed] Leatherman Multi Tool & UK law?

Unless you are waving it at the cashier in your local fuel station I don't think plod will be bothering you.

i carry one most of the time for work. Pretty sure if you can prove it is necessary for your work then it's fine, this probably applies to a leisure activity as well

I got in a bit of bother about 5 years ago over this.

I was going on a photoshoot to italy and took a gerber multi-tool with me (useful things for setting up shots/tripods/cutting gel etc). forgot to put it in checked baggage and realised my mistake bfore I went through security. Took the tool to the security guy and explained I had forgotten to check it.

He called the cops and I received an official caution for carrying a lock bladed knife in public. and nearly missed my flight. and had the tool confiscated. (never seen it since). the anger has only just subsided.

Generally, you've got to have a bloody good reason to have one these days, which makes me laugh considering how easy it is to buy them here. That said, you could argue if it stays in your camelbak, it's a useful tool to have if you're in the middle of nowhere and something breaks.

You'll be fine if you can prove it's for bike maintenance on the trail I would think. But if your foolish enough to carry it in an airport in your hand luggage then that's a different matter.

i think you got a jobsworth there, i've done the same and they gave me a padded envelope and let me post it to myself

IF you're walking down the street carrying it they'll get angry. If you're out on a bike or camping in the woods they'll be a bit more lenient. Technically it is very illegal AFAIK, so don't get caught doing anything else wrong at the time.

But if your foolish enough to carry it in an airport in your hand luggage then that's a different matter.

Cheers Drac. top advice.

[i]Cheers Drac. top advice. [/i]

My pleasure.

They never noticed my Alien multi-tool.

coffeeking - Member
IF you're walking down the street carrying it they'll get angry. If you're out on a bike or camping in the woods they'll be a bit more lenient. Technically it is very illegal AFAIK, so don't get caught doing anything else wrong at the time.

Best advice on this thread I'd say.

My mother had a lock knife taken off her in an airport - twice! she carries one for collecting specimens as she is a biologist ( and a bit mad) She wasn't prosecuted either time.

I think it goes back to the "good reason" for having one so if its with your bike kit then you may have a lawful excuse - if its just in your pocket then its harder to show. Its perfectly legal to have one in your house hence legal to sell them.

My understanding is that a small folding knife you don't need the "good reason" to be carrying it - a larger folding knife or a lock knife or fixed blade you do need a "good reason"

Drac - Member
Cheers Drac. top advice.

My pleasure.

They never noticed my Alien multi-tool.

so better to smuggle it onto a flight rather than be honest with security. hmmm.

The term 'offensive weapon' is defined as: "any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use".

The defendant is entitled to be acquitted if he shows on the balance of probabilities that:

* he had "good reason or lawful authority" for having the bladed or pointed article; or
* he had the article for use at work; or
* he had the article for religious reasons; or
* he had the article as part of a national costume;

Jimbobrighton - sounds like worse than a jobsworth.. Another copper that doesn't know the law. A "lock knife" does not come into the category of "folding pocket knife" because it is not immediately foldable at all times; (Rv Deegan [1998] 2 Cr.App,R 121 CA).

[i]so better to smuggle it onto a flight rather than be honest with security. hmmm. [/i]

Can't see where I said that.

It is an offence to have one in a public place, as it is a bladed article that by virtue of locking does not fall within the folding knife, blade under 3 inches exception.
It is a defence for you to prove that you have it for a good reason or lawful authority. So if the poice find it on you you will run the risk of a day in court where you have to prove your innocence on the ballance of probabilities. Given that the offence carrys up to two years in custody I would not chose to carry one any where.
Can you prove you really need a locking blade for your ride?

double post sorry

[i]Can you prove you really need a locking blade for your ride? [/i]

I use it to cut cable ties that I use for quick repairs and given the length of the blade and the way the law is it's far from illegal. I'd also say if you can prove there and then what it's for, hunting, repairs or work then your not likely to go to court.

If you kicking 7 colours of shit out of someone, get caught and found with a knife on you then your going to be in court.

Can you prove you really need a locking blade for your ride?

I would have thought it was the job of the prosecutor to prove the case against you rather than you having to prove anything

Sorry Drac but any locking blade is illegal unless you can prove a good reason . "I need it for work," is a good reason (if believed )for when you are at or enroute to work but not at other times. If you take a lock knife or fixed blade to cut cable ties you are running a potentialy expensive risk.

Seems to be ok as long as you have a leitimate reason for having the knife/tool. On a slightly different note I was rather dismayed/embarrassed to find a plastic Skean Dhu included in the finery last time I hired a kilt!

Quite amusing debate about this re National dress, and weapons carried as part of, in the House of Commons [url= http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199596/cmhansrd/vo960426/debtext/60426-03.htm ]HERE[/url]

I particularly liked ...[i]A schoolteacher would not be especially well thought of if he suddenly took to arriving at school and conducting lessons dressed in Lederhosen and wearing Dutch clogs, not necessarily together.[/i]

I've never needed a leatherman or other similar multitool on a ride, could someone enlighten me why I'd need a pair of (flexy) pliars and 5 different types of saw when in reality most bike mechanicals fall into one of 3 categories.........

Minor....
Puncture, worn pads, etc

Bodgeable.....
Mullered drivetrain, just go SS,
Split brake hose, go easy and avoid downhill sections

Serious....
Youve actualy broken one of the bits that makes a bike a bike (wheels, frame etc.

Can think of a single repair that actualy needs a leatherman? Is it just a aharp, shiny gaget to show off in the car park? Just like the yoofs the law is designed to stop.

duntmatter I'm confused.

you quote the definition of an offensive weapon, then the various defences to a different offence (the offence of having an article with blade or point in public place), then say the cop didn't know the law because he said a locking multi took wasn't within the 'less than 3 inch folding pocket knife' exemption, which it isn't.

Can you clarify?

uplink "I would have thought it was the job of the prosecutor to prove the case against you rather than you having to prove anything"
NO, the prosecutor has to prove beyond doubt that you had the tool and it has a locking blade, or one over three inches, and that you were in a public place. the person with the multi tool has to prove the defence. That is why it is an expensive risk to carry one.

Kenny Senior, it's not just duntmatter lots of people get confused by the interplay between offensive wepons and bladed articles.

Hmmm wonder what they would think with these in my boot....

[url= http://www.camb-knives.demon.co.uk/products/pics/straight-small.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.camb-knives.demon.co.uk/products/pics/straight-small.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.camb-knives.demon.co.uk/products/pics/poultry-small.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.camb-knives.demon.co.uk/products/pics/poultry-small.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I always carry a knife (under 3") with me in the car, on the bike, up the farm.

My boss got stopped for speeding, and they noticed a 3ft long knife on the back seat. They asked what it was for and why he had it, then let him get on his way! They did tell him to put it in the boot, so it couldn't be seen.

uplink - they don't have to prove anything in this case as you were in possession of an illegal weapon(that's their prima facie). It's up to you to prove your innocence.

could someone enlighten me why I'd need a pair of (flexy) pliars and 5 different types of saw

The pliers are anything but flexy. They're easily as good as many 'proper' tools.
I've used the saw for trail clearing.

🙂

[i]If you take a lock knife or fixed blade to cut cable ties you are running a potentialy expensive risk. [/i]

You've probably more of a risk fallen on the knife and chopping your head off.

and they noticed a 3ft long knife on the back seat.

Isn't that more commonly known as a sword 😯

Good lord the legal debates on this site worry me. Any knife which doesn't have a folding blade less than 3 inches in length is prohibited. The legislation in terms of a made, intended or used offensive weapon is irrelevant as a leatherman would be prohibited under the points and blades legislation quoted above. If you have a reasonable excuse for posession of the knife you are VERY unlikely to get arrested and even less likely to be charged with any offence. A reasonable excuse would include fixing your bike. However you might be better off buying a pen knife if you are that worried about it.

I think if your that worried about laws your better of no leaving the house but try to stay legal in the house too.

Isn't that more commonly known as a sword

I find my leatherman usefull for pulling thorns out of tyres and the file is usefull for roughing up tubes and taking the edges off metal burrs when stuff snaps or has worn badly and starts causing an issue en route.

Just make sure it looks like it's been used for bike stuff-i.e has greasy hand prints on it and you don't wave it about a lot.

In a perfect world I would recomend getting a cheaper version with a smaller non locking blade and maybe selling the better one on ebay to avaid any potential infractions should you come accross an ill informed security jobsworth. But only if you think it's likely that someone will decide to suddenly rifle through your kit.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

I've never needed a leatherman or other similar multitool on a ride, could someone enlighten me why I'd need a pair of (flexy) pliars and 5 different types of saw when in reality most bike mechanicals fall into one of 3 categories.........

While I agree with you in theory and I only carry a multitool, once when with a pal we folded the chainring on the tandem by hitting a rock we used leatherman pliers to straighten it out enough to ride it again

What I don't get is why a locking blade is considered any more 'weapony' than a non locking blade. A locking blade is really only there to stop the user from chopping their fingers off - doesn't stop em stabbing somone does it??

Until 2001 mine went with me on the plane all round the world. The only time it was ever questioned was on 2 flights to Edinburgh when they took it off me and put it in the hold. A colleague lost his recently but security at Heathrow kindly found it for him lurking in his bag. He'd been on at least 4 flights previously after believing it lost. They gave him an envelope and he went back out and posted it to himself. I've been carrying one for 15 years and never had any problems.

What I don't get is why a locking blade is considered any more 'weapony' than a non locking blade.

That was my understanding too konabunny.

Its that a small folding knife has an exemption from the law - and a locking knife is considered to be the same as a fixed knife from case law - so it is not the lock knife is singled out as dangerous ( like a flicknife or gravity knife) but that a small folding knife has an exemption which does not apply to a lock knife

When I go out for a picnic, my kitchen knife is a locked blade.

I use it to cut cheese. - Are you allowed to cut cheese with a locking leatherman?

and they noticed a 3ft long knife on the back seat.

As long as it's accompanied by a 3ft long fork and spoon, I think you'd be able to convince a judge that you had it for a legitimate reason.

I have a Leatherman PST II which lives in my Camelback. That has a small folding but not locking blade. Given it's stuffed away and I'm unlikely to meet a PC in the middle of the sticks, I'd like to think it wouldn't be a problem.

I also have a Charge TTi which does have a decent sized locking blade and the thought of being stopped has crossed my mind (I used to carry it all the time for work). Hence I bought a model without a blade at all, the Knifeless Fuse. Quality isn't as good as the Charge which is a shame. I still reckon you could still hurt somebody will the other tools on it though...

I wouldn't get into the finer of point of what is or is not forbidden, as there is an element of intent in the definition.

A toothbrush can be an offensive weapon we are led to believe, yet I have a knife in my bike pack and an axe, chainsaw, and sometime a gun in my car, with no intention to offend.

I have good reason to have them all and use them in a careful and competent fashion.

I wouldn't take any of them to the airport; but day-to-day it's not an issue.

How would anyone get any work done?

Talking of taking dodgy stiff to the airport; my mate went to Zurich with a homemade light set consisting of a battery pack of cell sticks gaffa-taped together with the obligatory cartoon-style red and black wires poking out of one end.

He got to hear the ker-clunk of cocking semi-automatic weapons as he was surrounded at the X-ray machine. How we all laughed. Later. Much later.

I've never needed a leatherman or other similar multitool on a ride, could someone enlighten me why I'd need a pair of (flexy) pliars and 5 different types of saw when in reality most bike mechanicals fall into one of 3 categories.........
Minor....
Puncture, worn pads, etc
Bodgeable.....
Mullered drivetrain, just go SS,
Split brake hose, go easy and avoid downhill sections
Serious....
Youve actualy broken one of the bits that makes a bike a bike (wheels, frame etc.
Can think of a single repair that actualy needs a leatherman? Is it just a aharp, shiny gaget to show off in the car park? Just like the yoofs the law is designed to stop.

"but I'm buggered if I'm going to risk serious personal injury due to the blade snapping shut in use, just because of some point of law meant for switchblades or stilettos"
The irony is that switchblades and stilettos are offensive wepons per se so always have been illegal. The "bladed article" legislation was designed to make it easier to convict people ie to remove any need to establish criminal intent that's why the multi tools are so risky to carry.
To all those who minimise the chances of having problems with the law I deal with a fair number of cases a year where it does happen. My last was yesterday for a miniture lock knife on a key ring .The last "leatherman" case I know of was last week though that was dropped because the officer wrongly told the cps that it didn't lock.

I carry a Harpoon in my car. However one look at me and the Police realise I'm Japanese so let me on my way 😀 (ah soo)

Out of interest crankboy, how many times have you seen people prosecuted for having one when cycling, camping or similar, or does it tend to be people who have them for no apparent reason in less outdoorsy situations for want of a better phrase?

An all this hassle because testosterone filled knobjockeys join gangs and feel the need to prove themselves... When I was a lad we all had combat knives, we all thought we were Rambo and spent the day in the woods trying to throw them into trees 🙂

I bet none.

thegreatape in terms of cycling off road i've never seen a case .But i have seen a mountain biker arrested after a row with a landowner and had he had a multi tool with knife then that would have been an extra charge. I have seen a fair number of legitimate users arrested and sign disclaimers giving up the knife and accept cautions for the offense. I get about two tradesmen a year taken to court with the "i forgot it was in my pocket/bag i use it for work" line (not a defense in law if you forget you have it.) , and I can remember one camper with a lock knife who took a caution after 15 hours in custody.
My concern is the risk if found with a lock knife is quite bad even if you are cautioned that can come back to haunt you, but the guideline sentence is custody and the legal burden is on you to prove a legitimate reason for possession .
Why run the risk of that hassle for a blade on a tool when any number of tools will do the job without the locking blade. .

Is the tiddly little (but still rather useful) locking, serrated blade on my Topeak Alien counted as an offensive weapon then? It's got to be all of 35mm long!

hopefully the larger of my 2 Opinel's either around the tool box or in the cooking box in the van is safe probably wont take it on the plane though

Ambrose no it's a bladed article but the penalty if caught and you can't prove a lawful excuse is the same as for an offensive weapon.

I'm hoping then that as it lives in my bike bag it should be OK. Ta for that.

So essentially this is another ****ing stupid law that affects a large number of legitimate users in order to stop criminals from carrying offensive weapons.

I wonder how many gang members have stopped carrying cos it's against the law?

dangerousbeans - Member
...I wonder how many gang members have stopped carrying cos it's against the law?

Probably the same number as deterred by gun laws...

ie none

Why run the risk of that hassle for a blade on a tool when any number of tools will do the job without the locking blade. .

I carry a mini-tool, chain splitter and Gerber multitool pliers in my Camelbak at all times and have used all three over the years, including the knife.

Technically the knife is a weapon, but then so is almost anything if used in a offensive way.

Just another occasion when I'll ignore the law.

So overall Crankboy out of the millions who carry one there's a hadnful who get end up with any legal problems because of it.

I carry mine in my camelbak and its been very useful on a few occassions (particularly the pliers) hadnt realised i could potentially be breaking the law.

A couple of years ago there was a hiker in the US who somehow got trapped under a boulder and had to cut his arm off to get free. So a leatherman could be useful in such a situation not just with bike repairs 😀

I was carrying my leatherman (blast with locking blade) on my belt (in its pouch) yesterday whilst working with a load of coppers (looked at a suspicious hole in the ground which turned out to be ...er... a hole in the ground!)

Not a flicker from the bobbies and no questions about it. Don't think they are really that bothered about a leatherman - anyone going to the trouble of paying that much for a leatherman is most likely to have a good reason for carrying the thing.

I suspect its the people carrying a stanley knife or a kitchen knife* on the streets that they tend to be a tad more concerned about.

*[i]unless of course you're a cheese eating picnic type - but they're gona breathalyse you later anyway as whats the point of the cheese without the red wine?[/i]

Hang on just a thought.... as far as I know this is a none issue because:

The police need a search warrant to search you beyond a "weapons frisk" during a stop? The stop should only be performed if they have good reason to believe you are in the act of carrying out an criminal offence or on your way to do so (they need just cause though) and having a past criminal record or because they don't like bikers are not just causes.

During a stop:
They can frisk the outside of your clothing but not inside anything. If they feel something they believe to be a weapon they can ask you to remove it to look but they can't search for anything else or remove anything else from your pockets. They can't search inisde any bags etc. only outer clothing.
Also if I remember rightly even if you are arrested they can't ask you to remove any clothing (beyond an outer coat, gloves, scarf or hat) especially if a person of the opposite sex is present and they then must do the search "out of public view"

Beyond this they can only ask your permission to search you/your possessions and it is a voluntary thing and they have to say what they are looking for and you can legally say NO. If you say NO they can't do anything unless they arrest you for a legitimate reason - which you can then sue them for wrongful arrest if they don't prove their reason to be valid.

Anything else is an illegal search and any evidence found is inadmissible in any case they try to bring (and again you can sue them for breach of your civil rights in carrying out an illegal search)

The only exception to this is if they can justifiable claim you are in the act of preparing or carrying out terrorism in which case they can almost do what they like (yeah its crap). Its a really dodgy loophole as I have had police claim that taking a photo of a building (and definately of a police officer) is covered under this, (it's not) and that they have the right to make me show them the photo (they don't). If they foricbly remove the camera from you they are assaulting you / stealing from you and if they delete anything from the card then they are committing criminal damage (my photos are art works and therefore valuable). Its a big issue with photographers at the moment and its not easy to argue with a bobby in such situations especially as the law is intentionally very vague.

Anyway back to the subject....

So
1. carry your leatherman deep in your backpack.
2. have a good reason for carrying it.
3. ALWAYS say no to a request from a police officer to search your bag etc.
4. Don't do anything worth being arrested for.

And you'll have no issues with the leatherman and the police.

But if your foolish enough to carry it in an airport in your hand luggage then that's a different matter.

I was foolish enough to have my Leatherman in my hand luggage when I boarded a plane, but nothing was said to me.
-It was an internal flight in Argentina though...

On our return to Europe we had our
[img] [/img]
(bought at the Buenos Aires Duty Free) confiscated though 😆

Right this is getting right on my boobies. Why is it people insist on quoting stuff they heard in the pub as law. The police do NOT need a warrant to search someone in a public place prior to arrest. They need reasonable grounds to suspect you may be carrying something illegal depending on the legislation in question. For example S.1 Police & Criminal Evidence Act gives police the power to search for stolen items, items used for going equipped to steal or cheat (fraud related stuff like blank phone cards or lebanese loops), items used to commit criminal damage or for offensive weapons including knives. There is also legislation conveying powers of search for firearms, drugs and terrorist materials. There is NO such thing as a voluntary police search of an individual.

In my direct experience the CPS are INCREDIBLY unlikely to prosecute a mountain biker who has a leatherman in his pack as long as they give a valid reason for having it. For example cutting down inner tubes etc. Any totally innocent campers or tradesmen who have taken a police caution for posession of a lockable blade are likely to have been doing something they shouldnt have with it, recieved very poor legal advice, or said something silly during the interview. The courts, police and caselaw tends to take a farily sensible view of the law in my experience. Whatever the Daily Mail or Internet might have you believe.