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So font of all knowledge that is STW, I've been fancying a new hobby for a while, diving piques my interest as it's linked to similar water hobbies and I nice way of getting some winter sun.
I know there's a few divers on here, so what's the best way of getting into it for a novice? I've got a weeks holiday I'm struggling to use so I quite fancy learning to dive in a week somewhere warm and interesting. Is it better to learn the basics first in a pool or something before wasting a nice week doing nothing, or can I get out and enjoy learning for a week somewhere cool?
I don't know if it's the [i]best[/i] way, (and the details are bit hazy now) but I learned by booking a PADI Open Water course in St Lucia which involved doing a chunk of the book learnin' in advance before I went. Then I think we had just one day reviewing what I'd learned and doing the 'theory test' and the pool work, and then it was out on the shallow reef just off the beach the next day and a few more days diving after that to get the Open Water card. Worked pretty well for me!
ETA: If I recall correctly I went with these guys: [url= http://www.scubastlucia.com/ ]Scuba St. Lucia[/url] - they also have a bit of unusual MTB trail under their [url= http://www.bikestlucia.com/ ]Bike St. Lucia[/url] partner brand... good for if you need a break or don't want to dive the day before flying back (not really necessary but not unwise)
Just thought of a cheaper alternative - Gozo is also nice - either way you can definitely do it without 'wasting' too much time in the classroom/pool (not that it's wasting time to learn properly!)
There's a variety of ways you can do the PADI Open Water.
I'd try and do the classroom sessions and swimming pool dives in the UK then go abroad for the assessed open water dives. You could do the open water dives in the UK (probably in the local flooded quarry!) but you might enjoy somewhere warmer!
If you do the whole learn to dive process abroad you may get annoyed at spending 2 days of your holiday in a classroom / swimming pool.
A few years ago I would have recommended Dahab in Egypt but no idea what it's like now thanks to the changed politics of the middle East.
Dahab is a brilliant place to learn. The sea is so calm a lot of the schools use it for the 'pool' sessions. As mentioned if you can get the book learning out the way in the UK it saves wasting some holiday. You can either do it officially by doing a referral course or just buy the book and read it. You can pick up a copy on eBay or its often in charity shops. As a general rule the warmer the water the easier it is and the prettier it is. Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Caribbean would be high on the list. Mediterranean is still nice in places. If you are feeling adventurous you can do it all in the UK but that is a very different game, but if you learn here you can dive anywhere,
I learnt in Colombia. Which was nice.
Taganga was the little town , very cheap, loads of fish , great fun . I then did quite a lot in Spain a year or so later . It's fun but very expensive and time consuming . My step dad does it a lot and my Mum hardly sees him. Which is perhaps the plan
Just to add, how comfortable are you in the water? Have you snorkelled much? Are you a reasonable swimmer? If so it's much easier. If not I'd spend a bit of time in the pool before you go. I've seen a few people fall at the first hurdle and either fail the swim test (which is far from gruelling) or get freaked out the first time underwater
If I was you I would learn in the UK.
Holiday time is expensive and if you can cope with the UK conditions, then somewhere warm and clear will be a doddle.
somewhere warm and interesting.
Don't under estimate UK diving, it's fantastic. It might not be warm but it's certainly interesting.
Where are you? The North East of England has some fantastic sites, google St Abbs and the Farne islands. The West coast of Scotland is also excellent.
I learnt to dive in the UK. I'll never dive again.
Agree that it's worth getting the pool stuff out of the way in the UK but stay out of the quarries and sea in winter, they just suck!
Its good for your skills but who wants to be watching people free flowing and popping up like corks all day long.
Its a tough place to learn. It usually takes ages too, while you wait for weather windows and its harder to do dives back to back. If you really want to do UK diving (and it can be great) then I think its better to learn somewhere easy and warm, get the basics, build up some skills then do some UK specific training. A bit like starting on the blues and building up to the blacks
Check out your local scuba diving shops. Many of them have try dives at a nearby pool where for about £5 they give you all the kit and almost one to one instruction for an hour or so. At least it'll give you an idea of how happy you are about breathing underwater!
In my opinion you'll learn far more and be a much safer diver if you do all your training etc in the UK - cold water and limited visibility means your drills need to be spot on. Diving once a year in Sharm is a recipe for disaster and you don't get too many second chances underwater.
I learnt to dive in the UK. I'll never dive again.
You're right, diving in the UK is rubbish.
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Not my pics by the way!
Its good for your skills but who wants to be watching people free flowing and popping up like corks all day long.
Why would you be free flowing unless you were using inappropriate regulators for the conditions?
If people are popping up up like corks all day they will have some serious issues to deal with. Not sure why UK conditions would lead to terrible buoyancy control?
Not sure those images are representative of open water assessment dives!!
The kit was supplied by the dive school. Everyone was free flowing because it was so cold. They were popping up like corks because they were free flowing and wanted to get out of the water. Everyone was learning so would not have been as experienced as you. The OP is asking about learning.
Really? Having two variable buoyancy devices, one of which is massive, plus often needing to deploy a dsmb, plus limited visibility means you lose your frame of reference. Great for your skills if you can do it but quite a lot for a noviceNot sure why UK conditions would lead to terrible buoyancy control?
Ditto gobuchul comments.
I learnt to dive in UK through a UK winter and all the cold weather gear/drysuit etc. A lot to learn and unpleasant at times but if you can do that diving in a wetsuit/BC in warmer waters is a piece of piss in comparison.
I learnt through BSAC and although more lengthy training compared to PADI, was worth it and cost MUCH LOWER - PADI you pay for a course at every level of development.
Having two variable buoyancy devices, one of which is massive,
It's simple, don't use your stab jacket when wearing a dry suit, then you only have one device.
The OP is asking about learning.
Exactly. Do your pool time in the UK, then join a club or go to a decent school and learn the basics.
Not sure those images are representative of open water assessment dives!!
Either of those locations would be accessible to a recently qualified diver, the main point I was making is the fantastic diving available in the UK.
Yeah, drysuits are can be tricky.
I learned in the UK, have done a few dozen proper UK dives, don't really enjoy it. Everything is improved when the water is warm and clear. Yes there's the "learn in more challenging conditions" thing and it does mean if you go somewhere that's more difficult than the typical reef (eg. Poor Knights in NZ) or just have conditions change you're better able to deal with it.
Do UK class/pool, get a PADI referral, do your sea dives somewhere warm then spend the rest of the week enjoying it. You can always do extra training at a UK centre later if UK diving does appeal.
I did the PADI open water qualification in the Thai islands. It's certainly nicer learning when the water is 30 deg C and you only need a thin shorty wetsuit. I found buoyancy control much harder in cold water (I think 12 degrees is about the lowest I've been) as I was wearing so much more clothing, and weights to compensate.
Not aware of any organisations that teach that as its considered bad practice. You'd have a massive bubble at the start of the dive which even a skilled diver would struggle to control, then be squeezed to the point you'd freeze by the end of the of the dive. You might get away with it on a rebreather but not many beginners use them. Use a BC to compensate for buoyancy changes as your weight changes, use your drysuit controls to keep it at a comfortable level for the whole dive. Either way its still way harder that chucking on a shorty wetsuit and jumping in. When you are done get out the water and sit on the beach rather then try and undo your zips with numb fingers while being pelted with freezing rain 🙂It's simple, don't use your stab jacket when wearing a dry suit, then you only have one device.
As I said before by all means go diving in the UK, it is great, but if you actually want to go diving in your one week beginners holiday then you'll get a lot more out of going somewhere warm.
If you're interested in Spain I can recommend a couple of places that a) speak English and b) do the PADI qualification.
I would echo one point made above: the basic PADI qualification will only let you dive down to 18m, you have to do the "Advanced" qualification to be able to go down to 40m. The BSAC course is more challenging but basically includes both PADI courses.
That said, I'd be inclined to do the PADI course as it's abroad, in warmer water, and is more well known which may be an issue diving in other countries.
Not aware of any organisations that teach that as its considered bad practice.
Really?
From a quick google, it would seem to divide opinion.
Why would you need to use your BCD?
If you are correctly weighted, then the air in your suit to compensate for squeeze will allow you to remain neutral.
I still stand by the "best way" is to learn in the UK before you go on holiday. It's like learning to ski on a dry slope, which is more difficult than real snow, before going on holiday. I would also recommend joining a club, SAA or BSAC and learning that way, costs less and as it's not a purely commercial operation, can provide superior training. You do it on evenings and weekends, so save your precious holiday time.
To compensate for changes in buoyancy. Loss of gas over the course of the dive, squeezed neoprene as you descend, launching a dsmb. You need to use it less with a drysuit but you still need to use it.Why would you need to use your BCD?
I would say its more akin to starting on the blacks. Yes, if you learn to do it you can 'ski' anywhere but you are better off learning on the blues, getting the basics and building upIt's like learning to ski on a dry slope, which is more difficult than real snow, before going on holiday
As above do the book and pool work at a good UK PADI centre. You may find you don't like it ! Then look at where you might want to do the open water dives and progress from there. There are fabulous locations all over the world, north and south hemisphere so you can go at any time of the year. When I lived in Singapore I did the pool/book work passed all that but decided not to do the open water. Around there you have world class diving in Phillipines, Bali, Thailand .. There is good diving in Egypt and Oman.
Bad organisations. Plenty of sites inc PADI accredited that are a bit so-so and even kre who have no accreditation. A colleague was an ex PADI instructor for 5 years in Asia and she had plenty of bad stories especially of non-PADI and had a clear view of places to go and not go
To compensate for changes in buoyancy. Loss of gas over the course of the dive, squeezed neoprene as you descend, launching a dsmb. You need to use it less with a drysuit but you still need to use it.
I'm sorry but this is nonsense.
Apart from the loss of buoyancy from the squeezed neoprene, which is minimal with modern compressed neoprene, everything else you list makes you more buoyant.
Use the BCD on the surface, not underwater.
Start of the dive you will be heavier than at the end, so you may need a little extra gas in your suit to remain neutral, but as you should be descending this probably isn't necessary. As I said, the gas to prevent squeeze is enough.
Start the dive on the surface, BCD providing buoyancy. Minimal air in suit.
Dump air from BCD, descend down shotline as you become negatively buoyant. Control rate of descent with air in suit as it squeezes. Once on or close to bottom, make yourself neutral with suit, then as your dive progresses, vent air from suit if you change depth. If you are using a SMB for deco, then you would probably want to be slightly negative and "hang off" the SMB.
What evidence have you got that clubs provide superior training to commercial operations?
It's all down to the instructor in both situations and you can find **** instructors in either.
Good commercial outfits will get rid of poor instructors pdq. Often a bit harder in clubs to get shot of poor instructors.
What evidence have you got that clubs provide superior training to commercial operations?
I haven't apart from diving with people who have come through both routes.
What I said was this.
can provide superior training.
Note the word "can".
It's all down to the instructor in both situations and you can find **** instructors in either.
Of course.
However, particularly with PADI, skills that everyone should have are "extras". The rescue diver being the obvious one. Then you have stuff like "Equipment Specialist", everyone should be able to change and an o ring and check their kit.
No idea why you feel you would need to compensate for becoming less buoyant but not for becoming more buoyant. As you become more buoyant you could dump some air from your suit but why would you want to lose thermal protection or start the dive with a big bubble? Even on a small, single cyclider that's 3kg so 3l of air and it would be a crazy amount for twins and a stage. Use you suit for thermal protection, use your BCD to control buoyancy. Very simple and what every agency I have trained with has taught (BSAC, PADI, IANTD, GUE). The model for training is for independent instructors so I accept there will be local variations and disagreements.everything else you list makes you more buoyant
Anyway, going way off topic. To the OP, go and have a holiday in the sun 🙂
I've done courses both with BSAC and PADI, and I wouldn't rate one over the other. I've been a member of an utterly useless BSAC club where it was nigh on impossible to make any progress with your training, and I've also been part of a brilliant club who couldn't do enough for you. I've heard horror stories of PADI instructors, but all the ones I've had experience of have been highly competent, patient, and keen to make sure their students were of a high enough standard before signing them off.
As for learning in the UK, all my training dives have been done over here, and my first taste of open water was Capernwray in the middle of winter. Yes, that would probably put a lot of people off, but I loved it. I finished my BSAC Ocean Diver course in Vivian quarry, Llanberis with a leaking drysuit in March. It certainly makes you appreciate warmer water diving that bit more! But at if what you want is to learn to dive, combined with a week somewhere warm, go for it. My choice in that case would be do a referral course to get the theory and pool work done before you head out, finish the Open Water course in warm water, and then if you wanted to give UK diving a go further down the line, do Advanced Open Water with a centre over here. Or find a local BSAC club, and do a cross-over course with them.
OP you can see that arguing about diving technicalities is a bit like arguing about wheel size 🙂
What size cylinder for the Thistlegorm?
Quite! The scuba forums can be an interesting place. Don't get started on long hoses and which reg to donate, and a 'what fins' thread will make our tyre threads look sane!OP you can see that arguing about diving technicalities is a bit like arguing about wheel size
I did it on single 12 which it turned out was almost exactly enough, but only just. That was a real squeaky bum dive that I got way to close on due to being incredibly distracted by the utterly amazing things to look at. Lesson learned there!What size cylinder for the Thistlegorm?
No idea why you feel you would need to compensate for becoming less buoyant but not for becoming more buoyant
Unless I am being extremely thick, to compensate for becoming less buoyant as the dive progresses, would require air to be released from the BCD. So for this system to work, you would have to start the dive over weighted.
I have never heard of anyone teaching that you should carry excessive weight. That's a good way to get hurt or killed.
The extra weight is the air in your tanks. Best to take that 🙂Unless I am being extremely thick, to compensate for becoming less buoyant as the dive progresses, would require air to be released from the BCD. So for this system to work, you would have to start the dive over weighted.
You do your weight calculations (in terms of how much lead) for the worst case scenario, ie when your tanks are near empty.I have never heard of anyone teaching that you should carry excessive weight. That's a good way to get hurt or killed.
Dahab is a brilliant place to learn
I'd second that, it is fantastic. Check the current political situation though.
If you like cold wet UK mountain biking then you might like cold wet UK diving.
The extra weight is the air in your tanks. Best to take that You do your weight calculations (in terms of how much lead) for the worst case scenario, ie when your tanks are empty.
Still doesn't make any sense.
Gobuchul
My point was that it's a bit pointless to write "clubs can provide superior training" as it's equally likely that "commercial operators can provide superior training"
Good clubs and good commercial operations with good instructors will provide superior training to bad clubs and bad commercial operators with poor instructors.
Fair enough. Maybe better explained here: http://dir-diver.com/en/knowledge/how_much_lead.htmlStill doesn't make any sense.
Dahab is amazing but you can't go at the moment as it's in the foreign offices "essential travel only" zone. Sharm is safe but you can't get there as the UK gov has banned all flights to Sharm!!
Must be unbelievably crap for all the people in that area who relied on diving / tourists for their livelihoods.
Maybe better explained here:
I understand buoyancy changes.
Remember the discussion started about using both BCD and suit to adjust buoyancy. IMO unnecessary and potentially dangerous.
You need to end the dive either neutral or slightly negative with an empty cylinder, to allow a controlled ascent.
You start slightly negative at the surface, descend and lose buoyancy.
You put air into your suit to prevent squeeze. This compensates for your loss of buoyancy.
With a wet suit, you still lose buoyancy but use the BCD to compensate.
As your dive progresses, you get lighter as you breath your air down. You release the air from the BCD to compensate EDIT/ when using a wet suit or release air from your dry suit to compensate/EDIT.
Also, if you are following an appropriate profile, you will start deep and end shallow, so more gas will be released as you regain buoyancy.
At no point should it be necessary to have excessive air in your suit to compensate or to have use the BCD as well.
Yes! You use your BCD to compensate for changes in buoyancy. This contradicts what you wrote previously (and your last sentence above):You release the air from the BCD to compensate.
It's simple, don't use your stab jacket when wearing a dry suit, then you only have one device.
Yes! You use your BCD to compensate for changes in buoyancy. This contradicts what you wrote previously (and your last sentence above):
See my edit above. 🙂
With a dry suit, you release the excess air to compensate as you ascend.
There is no need to use a BCD to do this.
So where is the 3kg you lose per tank? Its either in your suit or in your BCD, and there's no way I'd want it in my suit. A drysuit stays neutral the entire dive. You compensate for squeeze which keeps it neutral. BCD does the variable stuff - compressed neoprene, gas loss and dsmb, drysuit stays the same volume (and hence buoyancy). You have to do less BCD adjustment when diving in a drysuit but you still need to use it.At no point should it be necessary to have excessive air in your suit to compensate or to have use the BCD as well.
Yes, to compensate for own increase in volume and keep you neutralWith a dry suit, you release the excess air to compensate as you ascend.
You still need to keep neutral. The air that is in there will still expand as you ascend and will still need dumping (unless it is completely empty, in which case you are under-weighted )There is no need to use a BCD to do this.
OP as I hinted I decided it wasn't for me but one argument I heard which was very compelling was that we are sadly killing our Oceans so dive now and experience things you probably won't be able to in the future.
However, particularly with PADI, skills that everyone should have are "extras". The rescue diver being the obvious one. Then you have stuff like "Equipment Specialist", everyone should be able to change and an o ring and check their kit.
What's on the BSAC Ocean Diver syllabus?
IIRC rescues are on the Sport Diver course but I've done all my work through PAID* so not 100% sure.
* this is actually a typo, but it's funny so I left it in...