MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
Guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence - both of them.
Pleased.
media coverage i saw suggested the jury wouldn't have enough reliable evidence to convict. surprising. hopefully that's justice done after all this time.
Glad to see justice has been done at last but can't help but think that there'll be years of appeals to go through too...
whoops
and about ****ing time
Saw on twitter this morning that the jury had requested to see the "violent racist" video evidence on Friday afternoon.
Sentencing tomorrow. (just heard on 5Live)
on another note, they're not going to find life inside much fun judging by the details of the case.
YEEESSSS!
Justice at last!
Well pleased. ****ing brilliant. Finally those scum will be removed from decent society.
As led down Gary Dobson said: you have condemned an innocent man here today. Doreen #lawrence wept. Pauline Dobson (mother) also crying.
From the Beeb's Matt Prodger on twitter.
Good
At last. He's still dead but I hope his family feel a bit better now. I remember those men leaving court years ago when they got not guilty. Terrible behaviour.
well thats two of them
taken far too long.
Brilliant! Two less nasty racist scumbags on the street. They were clearly guilty from the off. They were literally bragging about it. They should have been down for a long time already!
About bloody time!
They must have thought they'd got away with it after all these years, especially after the outcome of the original case.
Thanks to DNA it means justice is seen to be done, shame the rest of the mob are still walking about free men though.
Still some peace of mind for the family, having lost a son at least some of those responsible are to be held to account.
Almost two decades. Imagine the pain and suffering of the Lawrence family upto this point.
What about the other members of the gang?
How comes the others didn't get prosecuted? No DNA?
I imagine so. Couldn't be tied to the scene. Either they disposed of their clothing effectively(?) or they weren't within the knife/close enough to get the blood on them.
Could be one of the others got the knife in but another closer fella got the blood spatter?
(I'm wildly speculating here)
[i]As led down Gary Dobson said: you have condemned an innocent man here today.[/i]
you were obviously there pal, and now you're doing a lot of time for one of your mates.
True. If he felt that strongly throughout HIS trial he'd have said 'look, it wasn't me but it was x'..
Finally some justice for the Lawrence family.
True. If he felt that strongly throughout HIS trial he'd have said 'look, it wasn't me but it was x'..
+1, i'd have been happy (ish) if he'd done a deal to convict whoever was more directly involved.
On the other hand it does border on thought policing
how is ti thought policing seeing as they have been charged and convicted of murder ...they were at the murder scene ..this is actions not thoughts
"Thought police" - how?
True. If he felt that strongly throughout HIS trial he'd have said 'look, it wasn't me but it was x'..
Woon't matter at all. Under the Law of 'Joint Enterprise', all those involved in the attack are guilty of murder, so grassing up who actually did stab Stephen woon't help him in any way. He's still guilty of murder according to British Law.
This case has helped change the way the police work, and how Justice is served in this country, I believe for the better.
Now I think there should be a push to bring the rest to justice, to charge the parents of Gary Dobson for lying, and action against any police officers who failed in their duties, including senior officers.
they were at the murder scene
So was (for arguments sake) the lampost and any witnesses?
Being a racist thug is one thing, being a murderer is another. Not every racist thug is a murderer. If there was only one knife in the group, and one of the defendants was holding it, would the murder have still taken place? Can you be 100% sure it wasn't a group of racist thugs and one murderer?
You're jointly responsible.
Or are you suggesting, for example, that getaway drivers shouldn't get done for armed robbery, just speeding?
or, if one person holds someone down and their mate hits said person, only the hitter is guilty of assault?
Being a racist thug is one thing, being a murderer is another.
How true. One will get sent down (eventually). The other gets made captain of the national team, paid sqillions of pounds and is feted in the media.
What they're really guilty of is not being sufficiently hard-faced. And maybe lack of ambition?
in summary, doesn't matter who owned, or wielded the knife, if you're in a group of people that commits a crime, you're all guilty of it, usually (unless, for example, you could prove you had tried to stop it or something like that)
The only way any member of that group could possibly have protected themselves form a murder charge, is if they'd handed themselves in straight away and gave evidence against the person who actually wielded the knife. The Joint Enterprise Law was brought in to prevent situations where someone has bin killed after being attacked by a group, yet no-one in a group ever stands trial for the actual murder, cos they're all protecting each other. One guilty = all guilty unless you speak up and say who dunnit.
They've constantly lied under oath, and obstructed Justice. They don't deserve any leniency. An 18 year old kid as brutally murdered. They were all party to his death. they all deserve to be locked up for their crime.
They've constantly lied under oath, and obstructed Justice. They don't deserve any leniency.
Its worse than that though Fred. They acted continuously like smug, arrogant ****s who knew they were going to get off. And not only did they show absolutely zero remorse! They looked very very pleased indeed with themselves for taking an innocent life, for absolutely no good reason.
I hope the police are very careful on which wing they put them? It'd be terrible if it was somewhere where the 'whites were in a minority and they may have to experience racism themselves. After what they've done, that would be awful
hey what's changed a Indian chap got shot in the head and another guy walking down the Uk's busiest street got murdered!
binners - Member
I hope the police are very careful on which wing they put them? It'd be terrible if it was somewhere where the 'whites were in a minority and they may have to experience racism themselves. After what they've done, that would be awful
I'd like to hope that the majority of "the whites" would be just as unimpressed with their prejudice.
from what I've read not sure the guy was just "walking down the .. street" (if you're referring to the Oxford Street murder)
He's referring to the murder in Ordsall in Salford I think. The Police are saying its a hate crime. I'm not convinced that had anything to do with race at all. You'd have to be ****ing insane to be strolling through that neck of the woods, looking like a tourist, at that time in the morning! Whatever creed or colour you were.
For the very reason that what actually happened would be one of many possible outcomes. None of which are very appealing. The guy arrested refers to himself as "Psycho" and wished to be addressed as such in court 😯
They not only robbed Stephen of his life and his parents of their son. He was training as an architect.
They also denied the world his potential and what would have been his achievements.
Would that the expiry exchange had been the other way round... 😐
then how is that "the Uk's busiest street" binners? Most confused...
You'd have to be ****ing insane to be strolling through that neck of the woods, looking like a tourist, at that time in the morning! Whatever creed or colour you were.
Unfortunately as a visitor you're not going to know that are you?
the content and tone of your post made me wonder, are you deploying the "The slut asked for it guv" defence on behalf of dear old Psycho ?
I was referring to both cases the racist attack in Manchester and the Oxford Street murder.
Certainly not Berm Bandit! I'm saying I lived very near there in Salford for 6 years. You'd be pushing your luck walking through the Ordsall estate at lunchtime on a weekday! Its lethal round there! And I'm talking proper criminals here! Not just random gobby scrotes! As has been proved. I wouldn't go near that place in the early hours of the morning!
They not only robbed Stephen of his life and his parents of their son. He was training as an architect.They also denied the world his potential and what would have been his achievements.
+1
Amen. Very well put.
We should have been at this point 18 years ago - but that was not the case and lessons have been learned (at a very high price to the Lawrence’s admittedly). Although long overdue this is nonetheless a positive outcome and restores a partial sense of justice. We know that others were involved in the attack and the idea that they are out & about with their liberty intact still remains an effrontery to decency, but hopefully they too will someday be held accountable for their revolting actions.
No doubt Stephens mother will take some consolation that her sons legacy resulted in the Race Relations Amendment Act, abolition of the double jeopardy law and changed attitudes within the various public bodies, all of which have directly contributed to a broader delivery of fairness to minority groups.
I studied the SL Inquiry on my CID course and it was by far and away the most interesting input during the six weeks. I didn’t think then that we would see this day. I’m glad we have.
Daily Mail now taking credit for the conviction. 🙄
I was living In London at the time and will never forget how smug these lot were coming out the court and baiting the crowd , Evil men who will get there just deserts Inside hopefully.
R.I.P Stephen Lawrence.
Doreen Lawrence's statement was beautiful.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8973998/Stephen-Lawrence-murder-jurors-did-not-know-about-Gary-Dobson-and-David-Norriss-violent-past.html ]They really do sound like a rough bunch.[/url]
I didn't know a Christian couple held his hand in his last moments.
The punishment should include waterboarding using a little of coke every year while they are in prison.
Same should apply to the person shot the Indian student for no apparent reason.
I'm really not very well versed in this but surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Being as the crime was committed so long ago and I presume they are no longer even in touch other than through their solicitors it seems unlikely the jailed two will feel at all obliged to carry all the weight themselves?
Edit to say surely even more so given the nature of their crime and the publicity surrounding it- jail is going to be extremely dangerous for them.
Like I said in the earlier thread on the subject I know that a particular, now resigned/disgraced Police chief told these guys that he would keep coming for them for the rest of their lives until justice was served. To his absolute credit, he meant it, and he did it, and he didn't just say it to these two either. The underlying principle being that the other 4 scrotes will be cacking themselves and looking over their shoulders for evermore too. I sincerely hope that, that thought also gives succor to the Lawrence family.
D'oh! Should be waterboarding those scumbags using a bottle of coke (not little coke) every year ....
They acted continuously like smug, arrogant ****s
Oh my. If that's illegal a lot of us here are going to be in trouble. 🙁
I'm really not very well versed in this but surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Something on the news earlier regarding this point, along the lines of they are far too late to do any sort of 'deal', and their credibility as witnesses (whatever that ever was) is absolutely ruined now.
It'll be interesting to see if ever evolving/improving forensic techniques lead the other 3 back to court as happened for these 2.
Hopefully they'll be used as pets by mr big on a daily basis
2 Down
3 too go
RIP SL
If you youtube Stephen Lawrence Suspects Murders Interview there are some interviews with the convicted and accused. I was too young to follow the initial investigation but they really come across as rotten to the core, shame how people turn out like that.
Why did they get off initially, no evidence, no dna??
Botched police investigation basically
Good.
Justice is only considered to be done if people get the result they wanted in the first place.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Part of the point of giving discounts to sentences for turning Queen's Evidence is because it facilitates a fast prosecution and show remorse, and it's a bit late for that.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
Not guilty ;). But it would be just for them to be acquitted if there wasn't sufficient evidence.
chewkw - Member
D'oh! Should be waterboarding those scumbags using hydrochloric ....
FTFY
Botched police investigation basically
Even in the 90's was it standard procedure to turn up to a crime scene and make assumptions? (i.e. The Police Inspector).
In addition, why is the '90's' talked about as though its another era akin to the Victorian era? Thats the impression I got from Chief Sup Dick. Maybe its another era interms of Policing however its not that bloody long ago.
Just a thought. If they were found guilty originally they would be out now and in some protection scheme,costing us money. Maybe some things are worth waiting for.
Hope the other scumbags are getting a bit nervous.
Did anyone see Paul Dacre apparently taking the credit, on behalf of the Daily Mail, for the justice served on these racist, murdering scum?
I know the Mail campaigned and so will have had an influence, and I hate to admit that of such a rag, but he really should have shown some magnanimity and paid the Lawrence family some respect instead of crowing. I found it very distasteful and inappropriate.
oops
dacre is a human/dog turd hybrid
im glad they have been convicted and i hope the other 3 involved will get done too
the case has changed the police
to an extent- they fuct up handling the family of the shot guy in tottenham and that led to riots). Ive been impressed to their zero tolerance towards suarez and terry,
however dalgleish and liverpools refusal to accept that suarez was wrong shows that certain parts of society still have issues (he admits he called evra a negro and 7 times!)
Why did they get off initially, no evidence, no dna??
Despite 26 accusations of the 5 accused the poilce didn't arrest anyone for 2 weeks.
The police had them under surveilance instead and even photographed Jamie Acourt taking away a filled bin bag. We'll never know what was in the binbag and the potential wealth of evidence the police watched and photographed being taken away. The murder weapon was never found and its scary to think that just arresting them straight away could have provided enough evidence to see all of those responsible brought to justice from day 1.
This single image always sums up the police incompetance to me.
Thanks Gravitysucks, it's such a shame that by not doing their job properly/effectively something we are all guilty of at times, results in these 3 on the streets!
Justice is only considered to be done if people get the result they wanted in the first place.How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
No one probably becasue they are guilty as guilty can be the only way they could have got off would have been lack of evidence everyone has known for years they did it
Can't find it now - but a decent article in the guardian suggested that one of the accused father's was something of a gangster - who may have had influence on officers / wittnesses etc - leading to the initial mishandling of the case
Racism is an issue but more of an issue is incompetence to me. Yes quota's have to be met now etc etc but how many make-weights still exist in every force (at all levels)? I know there was some press coverage of pensioning off/making redundancy (to include these) ages ago.
Genuine question as I don't know the answer.
Can't find it now - but a decent article in the guardian suggested that one of the accused father's was something of a gangster - who may have had influence on officers / wittnesses etc - leading to the initial mishandling of the case
Detective Davidson (one of the key detectives in the initial investigation) has been accused of receiving bribes from Clifford Norris. He's the Father of David Norris and was at the time himself on the run from poice.
I watched the panarama prgramme on BBC last night and things still amaze me even now. No first aid was ever given at all when the police arrived on the scene and nothing was done until paramedics turned up. Probably futile I know but still, it seems astonishing.
however dalgleish and liverpools refusal to accept that suarez was wrong shows that certain parts of society still have issues (he admits he called evra a negro and 7 times!)
No, I suggest you actually read up on this before stating things as facts. Suarez admits to saying it only once; it is Evra who claimed he said it several times (Evra also abused Suarez initially). Suarez claimed (and has bin backed up by various cultural experts and others) that he intended no offence, that his comments have bin taken out of their cultural context, and you need to understand the cultural aspects of this before judging. He is young, naive and ignorant, and has made a mistake. He accepts this. He contests the claim that he 'racially abused' Evra, and Evra himself has stated he does not consider Suarez a racist. Liverpool FC do not claim he has done 'nothing wrong'. The FA needed to be seen to be acting appropriately, and have taken what they consider to be the right actions. The situation is regrettable, but has bin dealt with. People now need to learn from their mistakes, and move on.
The accusations levelled at England's Brave John Terry are far more serious, if you take the cultural aspect into account. What's the bets Terry will be cleared of being a racist?
Anyway, we digress...
Irrelevant, but I was really impressed with the BBC reporter outside the Old Bailey yesterday; several hours standing in the horrible cold damp, yet was totally on the ball at all times: conducting interviews, filling during the many long boring moments when nowt was actually happening, and keeping viewers informed about all sorts of aspects of the case whilst at all times remaining objective and balanced. Superb job done by the team, there.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
I would be. Because the evidence against them was pretty damning, not to mention the wave of public anger and their 'trial by media'. Nasty scum, undoubtedly, but I would not want to see someone who was actually innocent of a crime get sent down just to appease the public and media hunger for a guilty verdict. I've known people who are no angels, be stitched up for stuff they jolly well have not in fact done, just so's the police could close a case. That's not Justice.
I know. It took a white couple to hold his hand and comfort him. The Police Inspector on the scene made some assumptions 'black gang violence'.
Regardless, utterly regardless he should have thought 'someone is laying in a pool of blood here'. Incompetent idiot.
It's in...
Dobson serve a minimum of 15 years and two months and Norris to 14 years and three months.
Pity it's not longer, but at least they got the maximum.
its scary to think that just arresting them straight away could have provided enough evidence
Hold on, hold on - I'm hardly a pro-police partisan but would an arrest at that point have even been legal?
They didn't need to arrest them, just to search their respective homes.
They were clearly stupid for not destroying every item they were wearing at the time, this is dumber still when you consider the fact that they came from criminal families.
Still, in a pre-CSI age with cruder forensic science capabilities, I guess some people didn't think about this type of thing. If they'd burnt everything after the attack they'd still be free.
Hindsight is a wondeful thing.
Were looking back on early 90's policing 20 years on. Even so ignoring 5 potential murderers after receiving 26 tips about them in 48 hours following the attack is ludicrous.
FFS it still took them another 2 days to bring them in for questioning after Nelson Mandela made a public appeal to the poilce to pull thier fingers out.
They didn't need to arrest them, just to search their respective homes.
Hold on, hold on - I'm hardly a pro-police partisan but would a search at that point even have been legal?
(Or, more precisely, were there any circumstances that would have allowed the police to search all the suspects' homes legally without a warrant? And if not, would the police have been able to make out the grounds for a search warrant from a judge?)
