[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8973998/Stephen-Lawrence-murder-jurors-did-not-know-about-Gary-Dobson-and-David-Norriss-violent-past.html ]They really do sound like a rough bunch.[/url]
I didn't know a Christian couple held his hand in his last moments.
The punishment should include waterboarding using a little of coke every year while they are in prison.
Same should apply to the person shot the Indian student for no apparent reason.
I'm really not very well versed in this but surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Being as the crime was committed so long ago and I presume they are no longer even in touch other than through their solicitors it seems unlikely the jailed two will feel at all obliged to carry all the weight themselves?
Edit to say surely even more so given the nature of their crime and the publicity surrounding it- jail is going to be extremely dangerous for them.
Like I said in the earlier thread on the subject I know that a particular, now resigned/disgraced Police chief told these guys that he would keep coming for them for the rest of their lives until justice was served. To his absolute credit, he meant it, and he did it, and he didn't just say it to these two either. The underlying principle being that the other 4 scrotes will be cacking themselves and looking over their shoulders for evermore too. I sincerely hope that, that thought also gives succor to the Lawrence family.
D'oh! Should be waterboarding those scumbags using a bottle of coke (not little coke) every year ....
They acted continuously like smug, arrogant ****s
Oh my. If that's illegal a lot of us here are going to be in trouble. 🙁
I'm really not very well versed in this but surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Something on the news earlier regarding this point, along the lines of they are far too late to do any sort of 'deal', and their credibility as witnesses (whatever that ever was) is absolutely ruined now.
It'll be interesting to see if ever evolving/improving forensic techniques lead the other 3 back to court as happened for these 2.
Hopefully they'll be used as pets by mr big on a daily basis
2 Down
3 too go
RIP SL
If you youtube Stephen Lawrence Suspects Murders Interview there are some interviews with the convicted and accused. I was too young to follow the initial investigation but they really come across as rotten to the core, shame how people turn out like that.
Why did they get off initially, no evidence, no dna??
Botched police investigation basically
Good.
Justice is only considered to be done if people get the result they wanted in the first place.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
surely now the two have been charged and will soon be sentenced is it not highly likely that they will now turn informant on the others in exchange for a slightly more lenient sentence?
Part of the point of giving discounts to sentences for turning Queen's Evidence is because it facilitates a fast prosecution and show remorse, and it's a bit late for that.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
Not guilty ;). But it would be just for them to be acquitted if there wasn't sufficient evidence.
chewkw - Member
D'oh! Should be waterboarding those scumbags using hydrochloric ....
FTFY
Botched police investigation basically
Even in the 90's was it standard procedure to turn up to a crime scene and make assumptions? (i.e. The Police Inspector).
In addition, why is the '90's' talked about as though its another era akin to the Victorian era? Thats the impression I got from Chief Sup Dick. Maybe its another era interms of Policing however its not that bloody long ago.
Just a thought. If they were found guilty originally they would be out now and in some protection scheme,costing us money. Maybe some things are worth waiting for.
Hope the other scumbags are getting a bit nervous.
Did anyone see Paul Dacre apparently taking the credit, on behalf of the Daily Mail, for the justice served on these racist, murdering scum?
I know the Mail campaigned and so will have had an influence, and I hate to admit that of such a rag, but he really should have shown some magnanimity and paid the Lawrence family some respect instead of crowing. I found it very distasteful and inappropriate.
oops
dacre is a human/dog turd hybrid
im glad they have been convicted and i hope the other 3 involved will get done too
the case has changed the police
to an extent- they fuct up handling the family of the shot guy in tottenham and that led to riots). Ive been impressed to their zero tolerance towards suarez and terry,
however dalgleish and liverpools refusal to accept that suarez was wrong shows that certain parts of society still have issues (he admits he called evra a negro and 7 times!)
Why did they get off initially, no evidence, no dna??
Despite 26 accusations of the 5 accused the poilce didn't arrest anyone for 2 weeks.
The police had them under surveilance instead and even photographed Jamie Acourt taking away a filled bin bag. We'll never know what was in the binbag and the potential wealth of evidence the police watched and photographed being taken away. The murder weapon was never found and its scary to think that just arresting them straight away could have provided enough evidence to see all of those responsible brought to justice from day 1.
This single image always sums up the police incompetance to me.
Thanks Gravitysucks, it's such a shame that by not doing their job properly/effectively something we are all guilty of at times, results in these 3 on the streets!
Justice is only considered to be done if people get the result they wanted in the first place.How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
No one probably becasue they are guilty as guilty can be the only way they could have got off would have been lack of evidence everyone has known for years they did it
Can't find it now - but a decent article in the guardian suggested that one of the accused father's was something of a gangster - who may have had influence on officers / wittnesses etc - leading to the initial mishandling of the case
Racism is an issue but more of an issue is incompetence to me. Yes quota's have to be met now etc etc but how many make-weights still exist in every force (at all levels)? I know there was some press coverage of pensioning off/making redundancy (to include these) ages ago.
Genuine question as I don't know the answer.
Can't find it now - but a decent article in the guardian suggested that one of the accused father's was something of a gangster - who may have had influence on officers / wittnesses etc - leading to the initial mishandling of the case
Detective Davidson (one of the key detectives in the initial investigation) has been accused of receiving bribes from Clifford Norris. He's the Father of David Norris and was at the time himself on the run from poice.
I watched the panarama prgramme on BBC last night and things still amaze me even now. No first aid was ever given at all when the police arrived on the scene and nothing was done until paramedics turned up. Probably futile I know but still, it seems astonishing.
however dalgleish and liverpools refusal to accept that suarez was wrong shows that certain parts of society still have issues (he admits he called evra a negro and 7 times!)
No, I suggest you actually read up on this before stating things as facts. Suarez admits to saying it only once; it is Evra who claimed he said it several times (Evra also abused Suarez initially). Suarez claimed (and has bin backed up by various cultural experts and others) that he intended no offence, that his comments have bin taken out of their cultural context, and you need to understand the cultural aspects of this before judging. He is young, naive and ignorant, and has made a mistake. He accepts this. He contests the claim that he 'racially abused' Evra, and Evra himself has stated he does not consider Suarez a racist. Liverpool FC do not claim he has done 'nothing wrong'. The FA needed to be seen to be acting appropriately, and have taken what they consider to be the right actions. The situation is regrettable, but has bin dealt with. People now need to learn from their mistakes, and move on.
The accusations levelled at England's Brave John Terry are far more serious, if you take the cultural aspect into account. What's the bets Terry will be cleared of being a racist?
Anyway, we digress...
Irrelevant, but I was really impressed with the BBC reporter outside the Old Bailey yesterday; several hours standing in the horrible cold damp, yet was totally on the ball at all times: conducting interviews, filling during the many long boring moments when nowt was actually happening, and keeping viewers informed about all sorts of aspects of the case whilst at all times remaining objective and balanced. Superb job done by the team, there.
How many would be saying "justice is done, thank god, after 19 years" if the jury had found them innocent?
I would be. Because the evidence against them was pretty damning, not to mention the wave of public anger and their 'trial by media'. Nasty scum, undoubtedly, but I would not want to see someone who was actually innocent of a crime get sent down just to appease the public and media hunger for a guilty verdict. I've known people who are no angels, be stitched up for stuff they jolly well have not in fact done, just so's the police could close a case. That's not Justice.
I know. It took a white couple to hold his hand and comfort him. The Police Inspector on the scene made some assumptions 'black gang violence'.
Regardless, utterly regardless he should have thought 'someone is laying in a pool of blood here'. Incompetent idiot.
It's in...
Dobson serve a minimum of 15 years and two months and Norris to 14 years and three months.
Pity it's not longer, but at least they got the maximum.
its scary to think that just arresting them straight away could have provided enough evidence
Hold on, hold on - I'm hardly a pro-police partisan but would an arrest at that point have even been legal?
They didn't need to arrest them, just to search their respective homes.
They were clearly stupid for not destroying every item they were wearing at the time, this is dumber still when you consider the fact that they came from criminal families.
Still, in a pre-CSI age with cruder forensic science capabilities, I guess some people didn't think about this type of thing. If they'd burnt everything after the attack they'd still be free.
Hindsight is a wondeful thing.
Were looking back on early 90's policing 20 years on. Even so ignoring 5 potential murderers after receiving 26 tips about them in 48 hours following the attack is ludicrous.
FFS it still took them another 2 days to bring them in for questioning after Nelson Mandela made a public appeal to the poilce to pull thier fingers out.
They didn't need to arrest them, just to search their respective homes.
Hold on, hold on - I'm hardly a pro-police partisan but would a search at that point even have been legal?
(Or, more precisely, were there any circumstances that would have allowed the police to search all the suspects' homes legally without a warrant? And if not, would the police have been able to make out the grounds for a search warrant from a judge?)
Elfinsafety - Member
Daily Mail now taking credit for the conviction.
Is it not fair to say that front page did pay a part in the whole process?
were there any circumstances that would have allowed the police to search
If the police had investigated properly at the time then i'm sure there would have been enough. There were enough witnesses that brought their alibi's into question.
Jeez even bringing in Acourt for questioning when he ws seen with the bin bag would have given the police the oppurtunity. Potentially caught red handed
I don't want to enter the world of generalisation at all however Anuj Bidve's murder suspects were picked up quite swiftly weren't they? In addition, (again I'm bordering on generalisation) I 'feel' the Greater Manchester Police's response to the riots was more robust and swifter (But then again they had the benefit of 'hindsight' as London happened slightly before)..Scale could have been different(?) however from the press I got the impression that Manchester stepped one step back, regrouped and attacked. Whereas London backed down a whole street...
There is a Police presence at the spot where Anuj died. Sad really that the flowers/tributes have to be guarded 🙁
even [b]bringing in Acourt for questioning[/b] when he ws seen with the bin bag would have given the police the oppurtunity. Potentially caught red handed
By which you mean "arrest", right?
Hold on Hold on - Yes I mean Arrest.
The basis for arrest didn't change from when they started surveillance 4 days after the attack and when they evntually arrested them 10 days after that.
What are you trying to say? That the the police acted in a timely fashion and didn't given the accused the oppurtunity to get rid of potentially incriminating evidence?
That the police didn't watch the accused walk off with a potential bag of evidence?
the only way they could have got off would have been lack of evidence everyone has known for years they did it
How can everyone know it, if theres no evidence?
Or is it like believing in god, everone knows he exists so therefore must exist?
no evidence doesn't mean they didn't do it.
After 18 years those five are still the only suspects that haven't been written off.
Two of the five have now been convicted.
the only way they could have got off would have been lack of evidence everyone has known for years they did itHow can everyone know it, if theres no evidence?
Or is it like believing in god, everone knows he exists so therefore must exist?
my posts says lack of evidence not no evidence.
The killers ID has been well known and no one seems to think these fellas are not amongst the guilty. It took 18 years to prove it due to the lack of evidence...meaning that a court would accept - there are still 3 more to go
They never sued the Mail did they
It is not like a religious belief, but dont worry I forgive you for thinking it was 😉
I'm not saying they're inocent, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd been on the jury, based on the evidence the medias told us was shown I could say it was them beyond any doubt.
I'd imagine the jury didn't make their decision based on what's soley been shown in the media.
