The Times today makes interesting reading as well. Huge feature in the Sport supplement about the case and the potential fallout.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/9602544/Lance-Armstrong-could-face-perjury-charges-following-USADA-allegations.html
So in no way can he come clean. Even if he wanted to he'd be ruined and ****ed.
crazy-legs - Member
The Times today makes interesting reading as well. Huge feature in the Sport supplement about the case and the potential fallout.
The Times, to be fair. Have a grudge, which they may even take to court.
@Hora, I doubt he'll ever come clean unless he is stood in front of a Judge. He has nothing to gain from it.
So in no way can he come clean. Even if he wanted to he'd be ruined and ****.
so do you still think he's innocent and didn't dope?
just wonderin like.
Glitch bump
and again
is this just some way of keeping the post count high or something STW?
double post
[quote=Hora]So in no way can he come clean
I think he should come clean and take the consequences. After a lifetime of lying and attacking people for telling the truth he deserves every single thing that comes his way. He's going to be sued left right and centre anyway so may as well get it all off his chest. But I doubt he will.
no way on this earth will he admit it.
I doubt there are many alive who believe him, including his inner circle
I suspect he will do time f he does though never mind the financial and personal implications
Wont happen IMHO.
He may as well just hand himself into the local jail.I think he should come clean and take the consequences
His only real way to proceed is to wait it out and see what happens. There is a very real posibility that all the people who would have a legal claim to his money won't try to get it as the it would cost them more than they are owed to get it.
But if he comes out now and admits everything he will be a poor little inmate.
I'd like to see it but if I were him there is no way I'd be admitting anything.
I'd like to see it but if I were him there is no way I'd be admitting anything.
He's painted himself into a corner from which he can't get out.
Starngely though, trek and Nike (although keeping fairly tight lipped about the whole thing) are standing by him.
But then Trek owe him everything; they were already pretty big but he (or at least the Trek/Livestrong/Armstrong/TdF marketing) turned them into a multi-billion $ global bike company.
Mr Bruyneel's days look numbered - some interesting allegations about the Frank Schleck case.
😯
Anyone else follow LA on Twitter? he's just put out a tweet saying
"happy birthday @lukearmstrong! #13"
I'm really tempted to tweet back something about
"what a birthday present you've given him - he's just found out his Dad is a doper, a cheat and a liar"
Any other suggestions? 😉
I think he should come clean and take the consequences
He may as well just hand himself into the local jail.
Depends on his legal team. He can certainly afford them!
[img]
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19921705
Possibly a perjury trial in the offing?
Also, the footnote at the bottom about a programme on BBC Radio 5 Live Sport on Monday at 7pm which sounds like it could be worth a listen...
If he's been a sensible bunny he'll have some money off shore and off limits to those who want to see him destitute and jailed.
I for one like his style, while the cycling community whips itself into a froth about things, he appears to not give a hoot...I'm sure the reality is somewhat different but maybe he does feel above it all, he's retired now so why concern himself with such frivolities?
I'm sure if it looks like his personal fortune is under threat then he'll come out fighting but for the moment he's playing it cool, I like the man even more.
Bye bye Johan!
http://www.wort.lu/en/view/radioshack-nissan-trek-separating-from-manager-bruyneel-50780057e4b0069dd6579285
Thats some serious bandwagon jumping by Schleck.
So is camp Armstrong just in lockdown then? "Say nothing, say nothing, they'll all go away eventually"...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/matt-white-steps-down-from-orica-greenedge-after-doping-confession
Yes Lance, it'll all go away
So is camp Armstrong just in lockdown then? "Say nothing, say nothing, they'll all go away eventually"...
The few tweets that LA has put out have all been about LiveStrong and he posted something about his son Luke being 13. Each tweet has met with a load of responses varying from "we still believe you" to "you're a cheating scumbag" although there were a few witty replies in there too. One of them, in response to his tweet saying he was hanging out with friends, said "I'm surprised you can see your friends, hidden behind the elephant in the room"
🙂
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/betsy-andreu-no-longer-a-voice-in-the-wilderness
Here's a lady with rather more testicular fortitude than many involved in the whole sorry mess.
I'm thinking of you, George Hincapie...
That Betsy Andreu link is quite shocking, how any of Lance's fans can read stuff like that and still think him a hero is beyond me. There's having a ruthless competitive streak and then there's being a massive ****, I just the hope the tide has finally turned and the man is now seen for what he really is by the general public as well as cycling fans.
Somebody has already posted that link on Lanceys facebook page
Red Kite Prayer has a good post about the fallout from the USADA case. Interestingly he slams journalists including himself for being cowards and not speaking out loudly enough about doping in general. Also admitted that Velonews stopped hanging out with Walsh at the TdF because of pressure from Postal.
Likewise, now you've got Millar calling for Verbruggen to stand down and for McQuaid to distance himself publicly from that era.
Seems like the change is actually coming now
There is a program on 4 corners (australian current affairs/investigative journalism show) tonight, should be interesting
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19941030 ]Lance's lawyer wants lie detector tests[/url]
"Of those, 11 came forward. Many others would and have refuted many of the allegations. Other than Tyler Hamilton, Frankie Andreu, Floyd Landis and Jonathan Vaughters I'm not calling anyone a liar - but I am calling those four liars."
So if the other 7 aren't liars, then surely it's all true as little that those four say is different or materially significant to what the others have said.
They know that there is no mechanism for lie detector tests being taken. They have had the opportunity to challenge the evidence through due process, and turned it down. Now they just want to sit on the sidelines making silly comments and hiding behind livestrong.
atlaz - Member
Lance's lawyer wants lie detector tests
Yes, but did you hear how quickly he terminated the interview when Richardson asked if he'd be prepared to have Lance take a lie detector test?
Also, Hora looked like a broken man yesterday - it's tough when you find out your heroes are only human too, let alone a cheating, lying, bullying drug user! 😀
It's all smoke & mirrors seeing as lie detectors are bullshit anyway.
Faaaarrrrr Too many pages on this now.... So I'll chip in too.
The one point that stood out for me from Betsy Andreu's interview above is this:
“This argument coming out that ‘I had to dope to compete’ should be clarified. ‘You had to dope to compete on Lance's team’. You had to dope to make a very comfortable salary. You didn't have to dope to merely finish the race. In the end, Frankie's career as a pro cyclist was over for refusing not just to dope but dope a la Ferrari.”
I think it points to the myth that in order to be a "Winner" one has to be a bully and willing to push others into a position where they will compromise their own integrity as being false.
In a lot of peoples eyes a Winner is someone who manages to win by working within the rules, moreover I personally don't believe a winner also need s to be a bully, a good motivator yes, commited and willing to go to that bit further than the next guy in order to to succeed? yes, but being a Bully is not the only route to sucess IMO...
The other thing is that this was a Team effort Not just LaLa... LaLa's Yellow Jerseys were their prime focus and hence he was central to that culture, but clean or doped it takes a Team to deliver those wins and the Team(s) that assisted him (Both riders and Support) are equally implicated, some may have been less willing than others, and those who have subsiquently stayed quiet were more than likely made aware of the consequences of following their conscience...
I'm not saying LaLa isn't a nasty piece of work, but I think the environment/culture/Money of USPS probably contributed a fair bit to his decissions and behaviour to be slightly more of a shit bag.
They know that there is no mechanism for lie detector tests being taken. They have had the opportunity to challenge the evidence through due process, and turned it down. Now they just want to sit on the sidelines making silly comments and hiding behind livestrong
THIS
Aye its funny to hear them call them all liers and yet they did not want to challenge them legally about this - it is rather tragic to see tbh....even a smalll child can see when the game is up and it is time to admit it and take the consequences
Its bizarrer their statements are just lies - like syaing there is nothing new - much of it is new. As for the claims that hundreds rode with him - it ignores the fact that the ones speaking come from the inner circle of team LA,
The only think of interest to me now is whether he is choosing not to due to the threat of time inside or if he thinks he has something to cling to.
I suspect only the former will lead to an actual confession but it is clear that he is guilty
5 Live tonight @ 7 pm Peddelers [ nice title] is on this
“This argument coming out that ‘I had to dope to compete’ should be clarified. ‘You had to dope to compete on Lance's team’. You had to dope to make a very comfortable salary. You didn't have to dope to merely finish the race. In the end, Frankie's career as a pro cyclist was over for refusing not just to dope but dope a la Ferrari.”
That quote from Betsy Andreu is right on the mark. Actually, further than that really as Frankie doped just refused to go to the lengths the others did. Kimmage quit rather than dope, Scott Mercier (who was on Postal) did the same and I'm sure there are loads of others who put their dreams to one side rather than break a personal ethical limit.
Re the lie detector thing, more at
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/68966-lance-armstrong-lawyer-caught-out-lie-detector%E2%80%A6-question ]road.cc[/url]
“Some of those eyewitnesses claim to have seen Lance Armstrong have blood transfusions.“If those witnesses were to take a lie detector test, what would those lie detector tests show?”
Herman laughed. Perhaps that’s why, despite four decades’ courtroom experience, he didn’t hear the noise of the trap being cocked.
“I wish I knew,” he replied. “I don’t know. How would I know that?”
The interviewer pressed on. “Would it prove that Lance Armstrong didn’t do that?’
Herman responded, “Well I suppose a lie detector test, properly administered, I’m a proponent of that frankly, just personally. So I wouldn’t challenge the results of a lie detector test with good equipment, properly administered…”
The trap had been primed, and now it sprang shut.
“You know what the answer is, then – sit Lance Armstrong down and put him on the lie detector test and see how he does?”
The question seemed to catch Herman unawares.
“Well, we might do that, you never know. I don’t know if we would or we wouldn’t. We might, so…”
Suddenly, the tone of his voice changed, becoming more urgent as he made his excuses and terminated the call.
“Anyway, it’s been very nice talking to you…”
It’s impossible to tell whether someone else was sitting in the same room as him making ‘cut!’ gestures, but the idea is inescapable.
“Er, actually it hasn’t been all that nice,” Herman added. “But I’m just kidding. I need to run now.”
Ha!
Does Bruyneel still have to defend himself in court now? Or can he just 'fess up? Presumably he can't just decide to not contend the facts against him (a la Armstrong). Just wondering if resignation from RadioShack, despite being inevitable, positions him to just cough up.
Presumably all the 'little' people Armstrong stamped on can't take him to court (sadly) unless they can do a class action, but assuming that large Insurance agency involved in that previous court case for non-payment of bonuses must be licking its lips awaiting payback?
My guess is SCA and The Times will want their money back at least as the former probably ponied up 7-8M dollars in the payment and the fees and The Times has been hammering Armstrong for some time.
Johan will probably go to arbitration but will almost certainly lose and from what I gather there is other unreleased evidence in relation to him (witness statements etc) which will enhance the case. What I wonder though is whether he can hold shares in RSNT if he's banned for life from the sport.
that large Insurance agency involved in that previous court case for non-payment of bonuses must be licking its lips awaiting payback?
I don't think they can touch him on the bonuses, there was no contractual get out clause in case he had cheated. He may however have perjured himself in that trial, which would be a separate criminal matter.
Over the past few days I've been flicking through the various appendices & supporting info attached to theUSADA 'reasoned decision' (sad, I know) and whilst a lot of is from statements of others & circumstantial it corroborates the detail in Hamilton's book.
If I'm honest, I had always hoped the rumours were just that however, it is clear that not only were they true but most were actually understated.
My big question now is why was the Federal case dropped? There's more than enough evidence to put USPS on trial for the original "misuse of public funds" charge yet nobody (as far as I have seen) has been able to provide a sound case for this being dismissed.
glitch?
One more for glitching?
I don't think they can touch him on the bonuses, there was no contractual get out clause in case he had cheated. He may however have perjured himself in that trial, which would be a separate criminal matter.
With SCA, there was a contractual get-out which said if he was cheating they didn't have to pay the insured bonus sum. This was the whole bone of the court case they had with Lance/Tailwind
My big question now is why was the Federal case dropped? There's more than enough evidence to put USPS on trial for the original "misuse of public funds" charge yet nobody (as far as I have seen) has been able to provide a sound case for this being dismissed.
Theory is that the Obama administration didn't want to be heading towards an election year prosecuting an "American hero" so the new US Attorney (appointed by the Obama administration) dropped it all. They never said there was no evidence nor wrongdoing, just they were dropping it.
