What I think as I watch this sorry saga drag go on and on and on, is that I wish he seemed as concerned about the Working class, labour voting U.K. citizens about to be ****ed over by the Tory’s as he does about the Gaza Strip
He is as concerned it is just that the media don't want to show that stuff as people may realise he would be a better bet than the Tories. Remember it is not Corbyn who is dragging the saga on and on.
When the media and opposing politicians realise that the anti-semite thing is not really something a lot of people care about (it seems to be taking them a while) they will move onto something else - and it won't be about his concern for the working classes.
During the general election, the right-wing press went for the IRA terrorist sympathiser angle, and I don't think many people cared. Now it's this, and I still don't think many are too bothered about having a Twitter spat with the likes of Netanyahu.
But this was all inevitable when he was elected Labour leader. He's got more baggage than a carousel at Heathrow. The right-wing press must have jumped for joy when he became leader and they've not stopped laughing since. They just keep drip-feeding it and once again he's on the back foot and spending all his time defending whatever it is this week, out of decades worth of politically questionable decisions he's made.
Meanwhile, I reckon I'm like an awful lot of people who just sighs and wishes we had an opposition party in anything but name, that was capable of taking advantage of the open goal in front of them in the form of this totally inept and floundering government.
Instead it's yet another week, with the Brexit clock ticking in the background, that Jezza spoons it into Row Z
But this was all inevitable when he was elected Labour leader.
Twice, comprehensively.
Twice, comprehensively.
... by the rest of the sixth form common room. Yes, we know.
And now we'll just have to accept that, to all intents and purposes, there is no longer an actual serious, electable opposition in this country. Just some noisy placard wavers, a lot of whom have some pretty dubious standpoints on various issues.
Any serious political party would be 20 points clear of this shower. The Tory party is having its internal civil war because it knows that it doesn't really need to worry about the inept bunch of clowns on the benches opposite them. And you can blame the 'Blairites' or the right-wing press, but that's only a small part of the story. The main point is the total incompetence of the Labour front bench.
You can slag Nu Labour off all you like, but they'd have shut this Antisemitism nonsense down weeks ago
But this was all inevitable when he was elected Labour leader.
Agree and while I think he has changed Labour for the better in bringing them back to what they should be I do think he should step down. He has done his work but Labour need a leader who has a less protesty history that can't be used (completely wrongly) against him. He must realise he has an even more uphill struggle than is normal for a Labour leader
Who that could be is the question. You need to play the press and the BS politicians at their own game these days and through ethics out of the window until you get into power.
You can slag Nu Labour off all you like, but they’d have shut this Antisemitism nonsense down weeks ago
Yep. It's a lot easier when Murdoch supports you isn't it.
Its a lot easier when you understand that when you're in a hole, stop digging
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mikewsmith
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">You can slag Nu Labour off all you like, but they’d have shut this Antisemitism nonsense down weeks ago
Yep. It’s a lot easier when Murdoch supports you isn’t it.
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Yep. It's a lot easier when your Leader makes it so easy for Murdoch and the rest of the RW press.
Its a lot easier when you understand that when you’re in a hole, stop digging
Honestly even the BBC has an article that leads against him rather than with the denial, if you think you can do a better job...
The problem is that you can deny it all you like, but if there happens to be photographs of you at that particular place with a wreath in your hand, and your denial amounts to "I was there but I don't remember laying a wreath", it's not very credible, is it?
It comes to something when you're giving the likes of Benjamin Netanyahu the chance to get all morally huffy.
The bottom line is that all that should matter to a Labour Party leader is the interests of the voters he's meant to be representing, and Corbyn has consistently failed to do this.
Criticising Israel over its conduct in the occupied territory is fine, but when you seem to have consistently showed more interest in that than, say... oh, I don't know.... maybe actually getting involved in the EU referendum, for example, instead of just going AWOL to the allotment for the duration?
As others have said - Netanyahu kills 160 protesters, silence; Corbyn lays a wreath (or doesn't), all hell breaks loose. Strange that the Mail unearth this photo just when Bojo is criticised for racism? I just listened to Justin Webb on R4Today ranting and raving like a Southern US shock-jock when supposedly "interviewing" a Jewish person standing up for Corbyn, so it's not just the usual culprits(*) doing the smearing.
(*) well, the BBC is actually a usual culprit these days
The bottom line is that all that should matter to a Labour Party leader is the interests of the voters he’s meant to be representing, and Corbyn has consistently failed to do this.
So isolationism? Many people in the UK care deeply about how politicians feel about foreign policy, see the protests about the Iraq war that people keep going back to.It's no surprise that he fluffed his lines but also it's telling nobody has taken the press to task about claiming stuff they can't prove.
The problem is that you can deny it all you like, but if there happens to be photographs of you at that particular place with a wreath in your hand, and your denial amounts to “I was there but I don’t remember laying a wreath”, it’s not very credible, is it?
Hook line and sinker. He was laying a wreath, correct. For what? Do you know? Or did you just accept what the Mail told you?
It comes to something when you’re giving the likes of Benjamin Netanyahu the chance to get all morally huffy.
It comes to something when you're so keen to slam Corbyn that you accept the words of a murderer as having any value whatsoever.
I suspect that Corbyn isnt that upset about all this, corbyn Twitter fans now using this as a way to highlight Israeli human rights violations. (Rather than deal with brexit issues)
https://twitter.com/CorbynistaTeen/status/1029096955853656064?s=19
I suspect that Corbyn isnt that upset about all this
You have no basis whatsoever for that suspicion. I recommend you stop now before you out yourself as a Mail shill.
The thing is, we know the game now and so should Corbyn. The right wing press will dig around and find something juicy, throw it around until it hides whatever The Tory's are doing badly at that moment in time. We know it shouldn't happen like that, but it does. So find a leader who either has less baggage to be found or can handle this better.
Binners has already said it, any opposition who are worth their salt would be 20 points + up in the polls against an absolute shambles of a government. That Corbyn is, at very best, level is the biggest insult to him and his team. Blair, Brown, Kinnock, whoever, would be smashing the Tory cabinet at every PMQ's, would be challenging them on Brexit and would be holding them to account, but they're not and it's pathetic. Clearly Cameron/The Conservatives were/are responsible for starting Brexit but if/when it goes to crap Labour deserve a fair amount of blame for failing to stop a minority government putting it through.
My problem with Corbyn is his total lack of any discernable political judgement. Both by himself and the echo chamber he surrounds himself with. Who's advising him FFS?! Or is he actually listening?
I suspect most people couldn't give a monkeys about whether he layed a wreath, or didn't, but they'll note that he does seem to have consistently expended a lot of political effort over the plight of the Palestinians. That's all very admirable, and a legitimate cause we'd all support.
But it now stands in sharp contrast to the political energy he expends (or doesn't?) on far more pressing issues closer to home, to which he seems to be, at best, disinterested
*nobody mention the B word*
And of course, he's just the gift that keeps on giving for the right-wing press. They just have a quick look through the archives and see what they can line up next.
You can argue about how fair it all is, but Jeremy Corbyns track record is just warehouses full of ammunition for anyone who wants to portray him as unfit to be PM.
With every day that passes with him at the helm, the Labour party stand less and less chance of forming a government. And in the face of what? A complete and utter shambles in government which they can't, or won't, properly oppose
That's a self fulfilling prophecy. If your requirement for a leader of Labour is that he shouldn't have anything for the Mail to moan about (and for the BBC to pick up) then you'll end up with someone like, oh, I don't know - Tony Blair.
you’ll end up with someone like, oh, I don’t know – Tony Blair
Which, in the current political climate, is no bad thing at all. He would be destroying the current bunch at the helm, no question at all.
So find a leader who either has less baggage to be found or can handle this better.
Apart from the shit can keep getting invented until something sticks. The only way to beat it is to surrender to the press barons as Blair did.
Binners has already said it, any opposition who are worth their salt would be 20 points +
Binners keeps saying it but that doesnt make it correct. Remember that, if anything, Labour are more divided than the tories. For the tories at least they would tend to hold fire to a certain extent to avoid Labour getting ahead whereas the "moderates" in Labour seemingly would prefer a hardright tory government than anything to the left of them.
I suspect most people couldn’t give a monkeys about whether he layed a wreath, or didn’t, but they’ll note that he does seem to have consistently expended a lot of political effort over the plight of the Palestinians. That’s all very admirable, and a legitimate cause we’d all support.
But it now stands in sharp contrast to the political energy he expends (or doesn’t?) on far more pressing issues closer to home, to which he seems to be, at best, disinterested
Again, how do you know what energy he is spending where and over what period?
Oh Christ?!!! Not that?!! The last thing the labour party needs right now is someone who could win 3 consecutive elections
*sits back and awaits howls of "But... but... IRAQ!!!"*
He would be destroying the current bunch at the helm, no question at all.
He really wouldnt. He cleverly jumped before his movement imploded but if he was at the front I would reckon the support for Brexit would be far higher. He is the perfect example of the "professional politician" that helped lead to the protest votes.
Oh Christ?!!! Not that?!! The last thing the labour party needs right now is someone who could win 3 consecutive elections
*sits back and awaits howls of “But… but… IRAQ!!!”*
This, just this. A leader who knew how to play the game a bit, won 3 elections and presided over a vaguely united country? Hell no, why on earth would we want someone like that?
The last thing the labour party needs right now is someone who could win 3 consecutive elections
And could he win a fourth? Could he bollocks.
You forget how he won those three elections.Namely by ignoring the traditional voters whilst chasing the city money, right wing press coverage and swing voters. The cunning triangulation strategy had the massive flaw that it had to keep moving rightwards for those three "wins".
Yes it worked for a while but that **** bears almost the same responsibility as Cameron for the mess we are in now. He teed it up nicely and then ran away.
Because Iraq was such a success, right?
whereas the “moderates” in Labour seemingly would prefer a hardright tory government than anything to the left of them
I'm sorry, but that's the level of paranoid, delusional, bunker mentality cobblers spouted by Momentum and the cult of Corbyn who see fit to label everyone as 'The Enemy'.
They aren't a political party, they're sixth form placard wavers. Most people can see this, which is why Labour can't make any impact on a totally inept and divided government in the process of doing untold damage to this country
“professional politician”
This IS Corbyn, isn't it? Perhaps not as professional as Blair, I'll give you that
Are you arguing for a Trump style "non-politician" to lead Labour (and the country)?
I’m sorry, but that’s the level of paranoid, delusional, bunker mentality cobblers
No. You are the perfect example of it. Or, at a higher level, just look at Mandelson and Blairs splutterings on the subject.
I aint a fan of momentum but I find it fascinating the absolute ideological extremism of the "moderates". Do you really not see how well you play into the hard rights hands?
The cult of Corbyn is odd but even odder is the Cult of anti-Corbyn.
Are you arguing for a Trump style “non-politician” to lead Labour (and the country)?
Nope try again. I am simply saying that Blair fits the extreme stereotype extremely well. That someone is a professional politican is irrelevant after all Farage and co all fall into that category but just not the stereotype.
sixth form placard wavers.
Repetition. Lose a point.
Surely there is no point to a Labour party that is always in opposition? If Labour want to be in power then they have to have a leader that appeals to the voters in the areas where Labour can overturn a Conservative small majority (or Lib Dems etc) or face being in opposition for ever. Die hard Tory voters won't do a u-turn and vote the polar opposite of their entrenched views, so leave them to it.
With the present divisions in the Conservatives it is criminal that Labour aren't way way ahead in the polls. To keep blaming everything on the press, BBC, Blairites, Israel, anti semitism allegations etc etc is simply daft. Get a flipping leader that is media savvy can win a general election or stay in opposition.
The cult of Corbyn is odd but even odder is the Cult of anti-Corbyn.
Personally, I don't give a stuff about Corbyn as an individual. What I do care about is having a meaningful, electable opposition to hold the current shower to account. We are making the biggest, most important political move this country has made in decades (arguably, ever) and the opposition don't have a set position on it. We need a opposition who have a clear position and who will fight for it, we haven't got that now and are large amount of that blame must lie with the leader of the opposition.
Edit, and what is said above, absolutely spot on.
Binners keeps saying it but that doesnt make it correct. Remember that, if anything, Labour are more divided than the tories.
A bit lacking in in the required level of salt, you mean?
It always comes across to me that Corbyn is just utterly unprepared for front-line politics in the UK at the moment. He lurches from one issue to another, issuing half-arsed mealy-mouth statements which neither confirm nor deny anything nor do they satisfy anyone, even his hardcore fans (see: "I was present but not involved" which is the "I didn't inhale" excuse)
You'd think anti-semitism would be an easy one to knock down but no, it's been dragging on for months. Sure, the press is happy to keep it rolling but the amount of nothing being done by the labour party makes this easy. When they finally do something to try to contain the damage, the press roll out another embarrassing moment (and I'm sure there are lots more). I don't know WHO could lead the labour party but the damage being done to them is incredible with the current mode of operation of the party.
Meanwhile, I reckon I’m like an awful lot of people who just sighs and wishes we had an opposition party in anything but name, that was capable of taking advantage of the open goal in front of them in the form of this totally inept and floundering government.
This +1 (from binners on the previous page).
That someone is a professional politican is irrelevant
Why did you bring it up then? Ah… dissonance indeed.
Personally, I want a more professionally led Labour Party. Ideally one that understands post 1970s international trade and politics.
I've been think a out this a while and I think it comes down to one of two things -
Corbyn is anti-semitic
Or
Hes a moronic man child that genuinely doesn't understand the impacts of his actions and why people don't like him. As long as his fanclub keeps him sweet he thinks he's doing well. Just like Trump
Surely there is no point to a Labour party that is always in opposition?
Equally there is little point in a Labour party that, in order to win over the swing voters, lurches to a position that results in what would have been considered centre left policies a few years are now considered far left. A balance between the two is needed.
Why did you bring it up then?
There is a difference between the "professional politician" stereotype and an actual professional politician. Blair fit both perfectly and is sort that people were expertly led to hate and "vote against" during the referendum as a strike back against the elites.
we haven’t got that now and are large amount of that blame must lie with the leader of the opposition.
Or just possibly because its an impossible situation. Its the morons who jumped out of the plane without a parachute who are responsible. Labour are no less divided on the issue than the tories are and there really is no simple answer.
The problem with coming out strongly against is that the Labour heartlands were heavily leave. They would risk Scotland levels of damage and, practically speaking, not much point in tidying up the tories mess for them if they are then destroyed as a party. Particularly given a real risk of the tories lurching even further hard right.
There is a difference between the “professional politician” stereotype and an actual professional politician. Blair fit both perfectly
I think Corbyn does too, albeit a 1980s leftie labour stereotype version not the slick smarmy type of Blair's era.
i am generally far less anti-Corbyn than binners, but pretty much agree with him here.
Also on the Blair point: he is the only Labour leader in 44 years to win an election. Without him, we could have had 40 straight years of tory governments. Yes Iraq was a ****ing disaster but it doesn't overshadow everything else he did. Maybe others here didn't feel the benefits of the minimum wage or the NHS boost but i certainly did, and I was very glad of it.
It really annoys me the howls about Iraq, while ignoring everything else new labour did.
Take a walk around any town in the North of England. The kind of down decimated by de-industrialisation in the 80's, and the kind of place the Tory's resolutely couldn't give a flying **** about!
Given what we now know about the Tory's ideological austerity agenda, and the glee with which they've set about dismantling the public sector, I honestly dread to think what these places would look like if we'd hadn't had Labour in power for those 13 years. Post-apocalyptic wastelands, most probably.
I actually think that for all Corbyn's 'man of the people' routine, Blair and Brown actually understood these places considerably more than him. They invested in the infrastructure that was so desperately needed. They actually gave us a bit of hope after a prolonged period of being ignored, at best, and more normally openly despised by Westminster
Yes, they were far from perfect. Iraq was a disaster, but to just view those 13 years purely through the prism of that is juvenile and ridiculous.
A Labour party in permanent opposition is a pointless self-indulgence. This is something that doesn't seem to overly concern Corbyn and those around him
It really annoys me the howls about Iraq, while ignoring everything else new labour did.
But feel free to keep parroting the Mail while ignoring everything else Labour say. That is really helpful.
Ah yes... of course..... I forgot.... anyone who criticises Corbyn is a Daily Mail reading, Paul Dacre stooge?
I'll just repeat:
That’s the level of paranoid, delusional, bunker mentality cobblers spouted by Momentum and the cult of Corbyn who see fit to label everyone as ‘The Enemy’.
Just listening to a Corbyn apologist on Five Live tieing herself in knots, going into minute detail about the differences between the Palestinian organisations he's shared platforms with, and the ones he hasn't and thought to myself that this is probably playing right to the fundamental concerns of UK voters at the moment.
As long as Corbyn is Labour leader then the right-wing press will just keep doing this, and the endless paranoid naval-gazing of the labour Momentum faction will carry on being as irrelevant as ever to most voters, at best, and massively off-putting, most likely.
All while the right wing of the Tory party gets to carry on reeking havoc unperturbed by whats laughably labelled HM Opposition
Just listening to a Corbyn apologist on Five Live tieing herself in knots, going into minute detail about the differences between the Palestinian organisations he’s shared platforms with, and the ones he hasn’t and thought to myself that this is probably playing right to the fundamental concerns of UK voters at the moment.
Yep highlighting that detail is vastly unimportant to most people, the simple version Palestinians=Terrorists is much easier to understand.Perhaps some of the news organisations could have gone into that a little more and helped to educate their readers and stopped to question some of the motivations here. But that is hard to get in a headline.
