<div class="bbp-reply-author">nickc
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Subscriber</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
Northwind, It has to be nuanced, I actually agree with you, the point I was trying to make (badly it turns out) is that yer average right wing anti Semite aren’t nuanced, hence the broad definitions in the IHRA.
The definitions are for everyone, not just yer average right wing anti semite.
</div>
Yes, that mural, which if noone had said anything to me I wouldn't have connected to Jews at all. The rich exploiting the proles is pretty much all there is to it.
They haven't caricatured a generic Jew on it you know, those are real people, and they arent all Jews. They are all bankers though.
But, you know, if you want to be offended you go ahead.
How do you know the bankers are Jewish?
The thing is, anyone I spoke to about that mural needed it explained to them in fine detail before they could even see what it was they were meant to be offended by. And that includes my wife who has Jewish heritage, of sorts.
How do you know the bankers are Jewish?
I think the artist has identified them as such.
But, you know, if you want to be offended you go ahead
to be clear I've no skin in the game , I'm just adding to the discussion is all. For sake of openness GF is Jewish, I'm not, and have no connection with Israel, so you can stand down with the petty insults if you like
What petty insults?
Kind of illustrates the point does it not - you see what you want to see.
I personally don't have much of a persecution complex so am not easily offended. Others seem to have a different persuation.
And it descends further into the mire. Maybe we should have a thread for what tyres for necklacing.
No, not Jews playing the victim. Vested interests playing the victim. Not all Jews think alike, same as not all Christians, Muslims or people from Ullapool think alike.
Exactly. As soon as someone uses the word 'community' I take it less seriously. That would be like saying the white community in Britain thinks X, Y, and Z and everything they say is representing me as I am white and British.
Some Jewish people will be supporting Corbyn, others won't be just the same as non-jewish people.
References to the 1% etc may be accused of being antisemitic but a fervent zionist mate is always banging on about Rothschilds and Zuckerberg and Abramovich as being 'our tribe', you can't have it both ways.
Strong speech by Jeremy today.
From the BBC....
The party leader said anyone who denies that anti-Semitism is "surfacing" in the party is "clearly actually wrong and contributing to the problem".
I wonder how the previous posters that deny there is a problem with Labour and anti semitism feel about these words? Is Jeremy wrong?
It will be interesting how his detractors respond although Labour still don't accept IHRA in its present form.
I wonder how the previous posters that deny there is a problem with Labour and anti semitism feel about these words? Is Jeremy wrong?
It will be interesting how his detractors respond although Labour still don’t accept IHRA in its present form.
About what he had to say. Nobody denied there was anyone who was being anti Semitic just the scale of the problem and the political motivations behind focussing on Labour only and not looking at other parties who have some very anti- problems.
Politics is a game these days and he is getting the hang of playing it one mistake at a time.
Politics is a game these days
Always was but is getting much more so. Jeremy really isn't good at playing it, he has way too much integrity.
Exactly that. The fact that there's such focus on Labour antisemitism when our prime minister just shrugged off being personally responsible for the Windrush scandal and it's already 9/10ths forgotten should say a lot but doesn't seem to
I wonder how the previous posters that deny there is a problem with Labour and anti semitism feel about these words?
Nobody has denied it.
No. In a party of over half a million members there's bound to be a few pillocks with distasteful views. The point is that they aren't the ones at the head of the party leading the charge. You can't easily police the views of every member with an organisation that size, it can only be reactive.
One thing I don't get in all of this is how mentioning the Rothschild's role in the creation of Israel is antisemitic;
surely, it's just a part of history, just as Louis Mountbatten's role in the foundation of ****stan, or St John Philby's role in the creation of Saudi Arabia (and Israel for that matter).
I can however understand why people like Jacob Rothschild, who has shared business interests with Rupert Murdoch, may want to derail Jeremy Corbyn's Labour.
And that's before you consider Jacob's father; Victor Rothschild's role in getting Alasdair Milne fired as BBC Director General back in 1987.
(one thing worth noting is that Patricia Hodgson, the secretary mentioned in the video description was until recently the chair of Ofcom, having replaced Colette Bowe, who was chief information officer at the Department of Trade and Industry under Leon Brittan when the Al-Yamamah deal was set in motion)
Alasdair Milne was the father of the Labour Party's current Executive Director of Strategy and Communications, Seumas Milne
<div>
<div class="bbp-reply-author">Drac
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Subscriber</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
I wonder how the previous posters that deny there is a problem with Labour and anti semitism feel about these words?
Nobody has denied it.
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member philxx1975</div>
<div></div>
<div class="">Ah the Jews playing victim again.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
To be fair Drac........
To be fair that is not denying there is a problem is it?
Anyway some quick questions
How much do the people leading the charge here have to lose from a Labour Government financially?
How would the state of Israel feel about a move in position to support Gaza more than them?
I haven't looked at the rest of the tread, while there are problems in both the main parties, really is this even a top 5 issue for the majority of the UK public?
pinched from another angry voice: I find it inexplicable how labour party supporters adn members even MPS are letting themselves be played by the tory supporting british board of deputies which claimns to speak for all jews but infact is highly unrepresentative.
With Britain careening towards a socially and economically ruinous "no deal" flounce out of the EU that will mean falling living standards and massive inconveni<span class="text_exposed_show">ences for pretty much everyone except for Jacob Rees-Mogg and his disaster capitalist mates who are just itching to pick up £billions in distressed British assets on the cheap like vultures stripping the flesh off a carcass, we have to ask:</span>
<div class="text_exposed_show">
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With British workers suffering the longest sustained period of declining wages since records began, and ever-increasing numbers of people trapped in exploitative zero hours contracts and the fake self-employment gig economy, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With Theresa May ever-willing to debase Britain and British values by grovelling and crawling before the vile, homophobic, misogynistic, head-chopping, terrorism-exporting, democracy-crushing, genocide-committing tyrants who rule over Saudi Arabia, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the extreme-right on the rise across the world, fascist governments already ruling over Poland, Hungary and Italy, and the British mainstream media (and especially the BBC) ever keener to offer platforms to extreme-right hate preachers, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With 8 ruinous years of ideologically driven hard-right Tory austerity dogma having pushed literally millions of us to the very brink of getting by, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With British-based businesses screaming out for some basic competence from the Tory government so they can plan for the future rather than worrying about downsizing or relocating because the Tories won't take the threat of a ruinous "no deal" flounce off the table, and Tory government ministers responding to their perfectly legitimate concerns with statements like "**** business", we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the rail system in absolute chaos and the legendarily incompetent Chris 'reverse Midas touch' Grayling still belligerently refusing to resign as Transport Minister, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With poverty spiralling out of control to such an extent that over two thirds of the kids growing up with lives blighted by poverty today come from working households, and unspeakable numbers of parents are left reliant on food bank handouts to feed their kids, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the prospect of Scotland breaking away from the Union in order to escape the Westminster-inflicted Brexit chaos they didn't even vote for growing ever more likely by the day, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the NHS facing an existential crisis because of massive real terms Tory cuts at a time of increasing demand, and because the Tory government have literally chased away thousands of EU medical staff, whilst deliberately disincentivising tens of thousands of Brits from undertaking medical training through the cancellation of NHS bursaries, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With dark money, electoral cheating, £multi-million campaigns of disgustingly misleading targeted social media ads, and a catastrophically biased and increasingly unhinged mainstream media undermining the very foundations of democracy, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the Tories slashing renewable energy subsidies and simultaneously hefting vast tax breaks at the spectacularly inefficient and environmentally damaging process of fracking for more hydrocarbons to burn, and doing this while the planet bakes in record-breaking temperatures, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With Britain's industrial strategy in such a mess that we're reduced to bribing China into building our major infrastructure projects for us, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With students now leaving university with an astronomical average debt of £50,000+ and over three quarters of the poor bastards facing the prospect of never paying the debt off despite a permanent 9% tax on their disposable incomes for their entire working lives, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the Tory government continuing their grotesque campaign of systematic abuse, intimidation, and discrimination against sick and disabled people against a backdrop of almost total indifference to this suffering from the cosy mainstream media bubble, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With violent crime spiralling out of control because of Theresa May's ideologically driven strategy of slashing 21,000 police jobs to deliberately reduce per capita policing levels back down to 1970s levels, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With massive scandals like Windrush, Grenfell Tower, & the Manchester Arena bomber being allowed to breeze back into the UK having been hanging out with his terrorist mates in Syria and Libya (despite numerous warnings from the US and the Manchester Muslim community that he was a dangerous extremist who was planning an atrocity), all simply having been brushed under the carpet and forgotten about, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the weakest and most incompetent Prime Minister the UK has suffered in decades (if not centuries) allowing the fanatical hard-right Brextremist fringe to wag the Tory dog, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With local government services collapsing all over the country under the strain of an ideologically driven Tory austerity agenda that has seen a 67% reduction in the Local Government departmental budget already, and two Tory councils (Norhamptonshire & East Sussex) already insolvent, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With a massive 8% per pupil real terms funding cut really biting into the education system and Michael Gove's crackpot school privatisation agenda descending into a cesspit of grotesquely over-inflated executive salaries, fraud, carpetbagging, no bid contracts for friends and family, dodgy land deals, playing field sell-offs, and failing academy chains, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the Tory party casually stonewalling all calls for an investigation into the disgusting levels of anti-Muslim bigotry in their ranks, and the mainstream media absolutely refusing to push the issue, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With all the evidence pointing to the fact that rates of anti-Semitism in the Tory ranks are far higher than Labour supporters, and senior Tory figures like Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, and Jacob Rees-Mogg gratuitously colluding with the alt-right "kingmaker" Bannon in the hope he can unite the extreme-right ethno-nationalists behind them like he united the Swastika-waving "Jews will not replace us" bigots behind Trump, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
With the bankrupt neoliberal consensus of the last four decades crumbling all around us and the public crying out for a better way of doing things, we have to ask:
Is Jeremy Corbyn anti-Semitic?
Remember folks, don't stray from the script. Don't go getting distracted by reality. There's only one political subject you should be thinking and talking about now. Otherwise you might just start getting ideas above your station.
</div>
I listened to R5L this morning and Jezza was ya-king on about this YouTube vid he made apologising for every out of bounds word or phrase levelled at Jewish people.
You’d think there was a witch hunt after him wouldn’t you?
Be good when Summer Recess is in and the Press have calmed down or gone on holiday..
Meanwhile, BoZo says that Muslim women look like bank robbers and "it is absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes" and nobody bats an eyelid. Imagine the meltdown that would follow if Corbyn said that it was ridiculous to go around with a coaster on your head, or whatever ?
Yup - more racism from a proven racist. the lack of press outrage over the tories overt racism shows just what a trumped up load of nonsense this attack on labour really is
is this even a top 5 issue for the majority of the UK public?
It is not even in the top 500. The only bonus about the press harping on about it for so long is that anyone who was even slightly interested at the start is completely bored of it by now (me included)
Majority of people just don't have the attention span for a story that lasts more than a couple of days.
The Absolute Boy - "Right, everyone. I've been on the You TubeFace and said lots of earnest well meaning words. Seumas has rehashed an old article I put in the Standard the last time I fudged an apology and we've got that in the Grandiuan. Job done. I'm off to the allotment now, as nothing could possibly go wrong now"
George McManus - "Hold my beer..."
https://twitter.com/lukeakehurst/status/1026398417176731648?s=19
Ironically, that doesn't meet the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
Referring to Biblical stories is now "anti-Semitism" ?? Is it still OK to celebrate Christmas?
Yep dare to pop your head above and be prepared to be shot down
Is Jeremy in some kind of weird competition with Boris? He really is helping the Conservatives stay in power.
Is Jeremy in some kind of weird competition with Boris? He really is helping the Conservatives stay in power.
So who is taking their time to go back through all of history here?
Sky News neglected to point out this was back in 2014....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45171633/jeremy-corbyn-reacts-to-terror-memorial-claims
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the news "deserves unequivocal condemnation from everyone".
Something Netanyahu knows a lot about there.
Yet the international 'community' don't seem to care that much that he has so far killed 160 protesters since March. If any civilised country were doing that you would be hearing much more about it with cries for action.
You can’t come out with stuff like that kerley, you’ll be labelled anti Semitic.
If any civilised country were doing that you would be hearing much more about it with cries for action.
Seriously they were Palestinian protesters and we all know they are not people
Corbyns answer to Netanyahus tweet which makes outright false claims
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu claims about my actions and words are false.
What deserves unequivocal condemnation is the killing of over 160 Palestinian protesters in Gaza by Israeli forces since March, including dozens of children.
The nation state law sponsored by Netanyahu's government discriminates against Israel's Palestinian minority.
I stand with the tens of thousands of Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel demonstrating for equal rights at the weekend in Tel Aviv
He was not laying a wreath to the Munich terrorists. He was at a ceremony of remembrance for all the Palestinians killed
This is why the Israelis and their apologists are out for Corbyn. He is not blind to the crimes of the Israeli state
I imagine Netanyahu has been taking advice from Conservative Friends of Israel or perhaps it’s the other way round 🤔, makes you think eh?.
It’s an easy way to throw shit at your political opponent and let’s not forget that there are 17,410,742 impressionable ****ing idiots out there who will believe anything that’s fed to them
https://medium.com/@anyabike/corbyns-open-secret-22a70fa03254
Not getting into this argument, but this does seem to shed a little more light on the event JC was present at, providing it isn't fake news as well, obvs.
The real question here
It's pretty sad. We have a Tory government split in so many ways and an opposition who is so inept that they cannot or will not put this matter to bed. Perhaps if he started coming out with proper policy decisions, putting forward a real alternative to a the existing government, getting all parts of his party on board (even if it meant softening his views), then perhaps the whole Antisemitic stuff would disappear. At the moment Labour appear to more inept that the Tories, which is quite some doing.
I've looked for stuff about what is the direction which Labour would take if they won and it is simply not there. Even in the left wing main stream media. Simply saying that we will re-nationalise the railways/water/electricity/.... is not a policy. I want vision, I want Leadership, I want to a hear a clear voice. If Blair could do so can Corbyn, Or is he too scared to be heard, too scared to accept that some of views have to change. Britain will not vote for a hard left party - it might vote for a hard right. After all we voted (collectively) for Brexit
its as much he gets no platform for anything and is constantly under attack. I see direct quotes from corbyn most days - and there is lots of policy and clear detail. Its not reported in the mainstream press as they are almost all tory supporters. There is no leftwing mainstream press bar the slightly left of centre Mirror.
These attacks are orchestrated by a right wing press and in the case of the antisemitism nonsense far right British jews and the Israeli government. You know several jewish groups have come out in support of Corbyn?
Corbyn seems fairly unrepentant
Infact it's an opportunity for him to directly criticize netanyahu & Israel's human rights record
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1029075065550372864?s=19
I
What do the people running the Conservative party and the Labour Party have in common, as the respective tails wag their particular dogs?
Cranks.
What I think as I watch this sorry saga drag go on and on and on, is that I wish he seemed as concerned about the Working class, labour voting U.K. citizens about to be ****ed over by the Tory’s as he does about the Gaza Strip
Maybe one of his advisors might have a word and remind him that the inhabitants of the West Bank don’t get to vote at the next general election, and there are one or two more pressing issues closer to home
Maybe one of his advisors might have a word and remind him that the inhabitants of the West Bank don’t get to vote at the next general election, and there are one or two more pressing issues closer to home
and how does he do that? Apologise to Israel for objecting to what they have done? Write a long list of things he may have done that could be considered pro Palestine and publish them tomorrow?
This is a serious campaign like the meeting the IRA stuff before to discredit him, unless you can show who is doing that and what their interests/paymasters are it's going to be hard to get out of. They will have a list of things to keep drip feeding over the weeks here.
