It was absolutely Corbyn and his competent leadership team. You keep telling yourself that.
You appear to have had a sarcasm bypass I'm afraid. I'm sure you thought this response was quite clever though.
No dazh, I got your sarcasm - I'm not sure you got mine. But I'm sure you thought you were being clever too. Socialism through communal suffering comrade. Onwards we go!
Oh whatever. Seriously, is it completely beyond you lot to have a sensible discussion about politics without repeating tired early 20th century cliches about communists vs capitalists?
If you’re really interested in making a point, perhaps you could explain why the last election wasn’t about policy, and why the Labour Party did much better than anyone predicted?
& why 'hard left' Labour did better than the last 2 centrist efforts?
Low on nuance there binbins
Oh you've deleted your post. Can we expect a proper response?rather than your normal foaming gammon pub rants
Seriously, is it completely beyond you lot to have a sensible discussion about politics without repeating tired early 20th century cliches about communists vs capitalists?
I dunno dazh, maybe if you could stop bandying about "centrists", "moderates", "Blairites" etc as terms of "abuse" (for want of a better word), and tell us why you have reservations about Corbyn? You've said you've had reservation about him before haven't you...forgive me if I'm wrong on that one. Also, I believe in your more exasperated moments with the middle class, you've professed that you think a bit of suffering might do us all some good; as well, as appeasing the far right who seem to be making you poo your pants quite a bit at the moment. As far as I know, the nearest we've had, in a modern developed democracy, to a "swing" left in the face of suffering was Obama being elected post 2008 crisis.
If you’re really interested in making a point, perhaps you could explain why the last election wasn’t about policy, and why the Labour Party did much better than anyone predicted?
I think the last election was about the electorate telling May she could screw her mandate and deluded remainers thinking that Labour was their only hope of overturning the 2016 referendum result.
I've previously made this point when you've described anyone who criticises Corbyn's leadership as "the usual anti-labour suspects": saying that the leadership is not competent and is allowing itself to be ripped to shreds by over-the-top anti-semitism claims, while it leaks MPs is not "anti-labour" . Corbyn, Len and Milne, and some of the other shitbags in there are making Labour an unattractive proposition to the electorate - you can blame the media (strong look always by the way) and disloyal scumbag centrists all you want. Parties do not fall apart under good leadership! (And by "good", I mean competent, broad-church encompassing etc etc, not just "strong.") They've failed to get their GE and are now supporting an amendment for a People's Vote which will struggle to pass anyway. So, yeah, they get to see a bit of communal suffering, blame the Tories and hope we all swing to the left. I'm not "anti-Corbyn" - I think he's a good bloke. I'm certainly anti Milne, Smith and Len - I think their thinking is outdated and in the case of Milne, quite dangerous at times. I'm guilty of being too naive to have seen the "others" who would see a Corbyn leadership as their vehicle. You can say that neo-liberalism has failed all you want, and for the good part of that, I agree, but it doesn't mean I have to wed myself to the views of a few lefty intellectuals who tell me I must suffer for the common good. The only thing Corbyn's got left for me is how much he makes right wing nutjobs shit in their pants - but I think it's too late now - he's not going to lead the Labour Party to a HoC majority - because the majority of the electorate he needs just won't listen to him.
Parties do not fall apart under good leadership! (And by “good”, I mean competent, broad-church encompassing etc etc, not just “strong.”
Putting it in bold doesnt make it any more accurate.
A casual example of superb leadership, which resulted in serious party problems, is Robert Peel and the corn laws. Right decision but had the party in serious problems.
Secondly you fail to deal with the minor problem that the "moderates" (note this is term that they rather entertainingly use not an insult) are mostly a legacy of Blair, in his normal authoritarian way, pushed a centrally chosen list of candidates onto the local parties.
Most of them seem utter incapable of compromise which knackers the broad-church model.
Without the ability to do what many leaders coming into an organisation would do, sacking the old management and replacing them with personally loyal, he is kinda stuck.
but it doesn’t mean I have to wed myself to the views of a few lefty intellectuals who tell me I must suffer for the common good
Have you got some evidence of these lefty intellectual types saying just that or is it a special interpretation?
You think at i’m a gammon’?
I’m a fully paid up guardian-reading (has a subscription for the last 25 years), liberal lefty, who has voted labour all my life and you just thought you’ll just abuse me?
And you wonder why the middle ground swing voters don’t fancy voting for the present Labour Party? Seriously?
Youre like ISIS. Anyone who isn’t ‘pure’ enough must be castigated for their blasphemy.
It’s a good look. Ripe for electoral victory
All you corbynites come across as fundamentalist Waco style cult. Because that’s what you are. Blind and deluded, nasty, vicious and authoritarian. Just a re-badged militant
& why ‘hard left’ Labour did better than the last 2 centrist efforts?
May said "it's me or him, back my Brexit plan"… and lots of us said, "no chance"!
Also, there was a lot of stuff in the Labour manifesto that a lot of people liked… it was easily the best option… the bonus was that they actually had a full manifesto! The other parties hardly bothered.
You think at i’m a gammon’?
You are a centrist scumbag moderate gammon.
Binbins. Your post (since deleted) was either directed at me or dazh and was x10 more abusive than my response so wind your holier than thou gammon neck in.
I don't think JC can win an election either. I would have changed him soon after the last one.
You are a lefty centrist right wing liberal authoritarian scumbag moderate gammon.
Fixed it.
No. of days since last Labour suspension for being anti-jew: 0
If you fabcy getting a measure of the true nature of a lot of Corbyn supporters then go and check out their twitter feeds and Facebook pages on groups like 'Red Labour'. It always makes for interesting reading
This morning they're all unanimous in their support of Chris Williamson, denouncing his suspension with their usual paranoid mindless witterings about it being 'centrist/moderate/Blairite 'plot' and interspersed with their usual casual antisemitism
If you fabcy getting a measure of the true nature of a lot of Corbyn supporters then go and check out their twitter feeds and Facebook pages on groups like ‘Red Labour’. It always makes for interesting reading
What does "a lot" mean, how many are you talking about here? You really need to stop reading shit like that as it is not representative.
If you fabcy getting a measure of the true nature of a lot of Corbyn supporters then go and check out their twitter feeds and Facebook pages on groups like ‘Red Labour’. It always makes for interesting reading
And there are plenty on the other side like Labour First who bang on about hard left conspiracies. This isn't a one-sided problem. Maybe the idea of the labour party as a broad church has simply had it's day? If some MPs really can't bring themselves to support the wishes of members and the policies and leadership they support, then maybe they should leave and join Chukka's lot. It won't help to keep the tories out of power, but it will at least put an end to this ridiculous infighting.
If some MPs really can’t bring themselves to support the wishes of members and the policies and leadership they support, then maybe they should leave and join Chukka’s lot.
What about Labour MPs arguing against another referendum… they are still welcome to stay? Yes?
What about Labour MPs arguing against another referendum… they are still welcome to stay?
Why woudn't they be?
If some MPs really can’t bring themselves to support the wishes of members and the policies and leadership they support, then maybe they should leave…
Given that Labour lost its amendment yesterday, they are now therefore committed to their next step (as agreed by conference) of a second referendum. Are we all going to hold our collective breath until they actually do something concrete about putting that in motion?
Or will Jeremy suddenly remember thats there's lots to be done on the allotment at this time of year, with the weather warming up, and he'll sort something out when he gets back from sorting his courgettes and runner beans.? It'll take him a few weeks but he'll definitely get round to it by the 28th of March, or in the next few days after that. Honest.
Oh... the goalposts have moved already. That didn't take long, did it?
And they accuse May of can-kicking?
I think I'll call in at the bookies and put my house on Labour never tabling an amendment for a second referendum
Binners you've lost me. He said they'd put down an amendment at the first opportunity, or am I hearing things?
Yesterday, Labour put down an amendment that would give parliament a say on a Brexit deal the party could support, including a full customs union, stronger single market alignment and more robust protection for the environment and workers’ rights.
They said that if it was defeated (you'll be surprised to hear that it was) they would go for a second referendum. Immediately afterwards McDonnell now says that they'll now do it 'as soon as the meaningful vote comes back>
They simply aren't ever going to table an amendment calling for a second referendum. Thats been obvious for quite some time. Confirmed last night
It is the hope that kills you, isn't it?
Seems the right time to have a vote by MPs to me… if that amendment for a public vote on the withdrawal agreement is passed… then MPs can vote to accept the agreement on the understanding that it goes to the public before being enacted… it now needs the Leave date to be changed as well though, obviously, as this is happening so late in the day…
…I don't see MPs backing the ammendment though… far too many questions and too much planning to do for a referendum, and we Leave in one month. Recind A50 and stop the clock. Come back to talk about referendums, alternative deals, and elections, when there is time to do so.
[ is this the wrong thread ? ]
They said that if it was defeated (you’ll be surprised to hear that it was) they would go for a second referendum. Immediately afterwards McDonnell now says that they’ll now do it ‘as soon as the meaningful vote comes back
And that's exactly what they're doing. It's an amendment to the legislation enacting brexit. The form of that amendment is dependent on the result of the vote on May's deal. You can't amend something that doesn't exist yet.
And bringing this back to Labour, I suppose when the second referendum amendment fails (as it probably will), no doubt Corbyn will be at fault and it'll be the result of some far left revolutionary masterplan?
Corbyn has shown the same commitment to his members' call for another referendum that he did when campaigning for Remain in the last one. How much difference that has made to what has happened since 2015 is a long boring debate done to death in the other thread.
Corbyn has shown the same commitment to his members’ call for another referendum that he did when campaigning for Remain in the last one.
that is an abiguous statement !
I'll start with 'Sweet F/A'...
Binners you’ve lost me. He said they’d put down an amendment at the first opportunity, or am I hearing things?
Binners is in far too deep to ever admit that Corbyn is doing exactly what he wants. Apparently, his opponents are a cult, I guess that he is no student of irony.
Something for your third coffee of the morning, folks.
Guardian have this take on how Labour might secure a majority for a 2nd ref given a straight vote on a 2nd ref wouldn't pass especially if presented by Labour front bench
Since 2016 the labour leadership has done everything in its power to facilitate the Tory's Brexit. I don't see them doing anything differently now. They'll continue to play along so that we're out on 29th March, even if its a No Deal Brexit. Its what Corbyn wanted from day one, and its what he wants now. And as we know, he doesn't give a flying **** what anyone else thinks
There isn't going to be a second referendum. There isn't going to be anything from labour to delay or prevent Brexit, even if it end up, as looks increasingly likely, entirely on the terms of the ERG.
I think jezza is far more likely to try and 3 line whip his MPs to get Brexit through, than he is to table an amendment for a second referendum. If I'll give him credit for anything its his consistency. He's a hardcore brexiteer, has been from day one, and has done everything in his power to facilitate Brexit. Very effectively. Since he's not changed his mind on anything since 1973 and he's not about to start now. This will lead to the destruction of the labour party, obviously, but I can't see him being too arsed about that really. Nothing else seems to intrude on Planet Jezza.
His legacy will be of the Labour leader who destroyed the labour party by sitting back and nodding through a rightwing coup that destroys all the social progress the labour party ever made, and establishes the UK as a neoliberal wet dream. A deregulated sweatshop tax haven.
Yay for socialism!
Well this is an interesting take...
https://labourlist.o https://labourlist.org/2019/03/siobhain-mcdonagh-links-anti-capitalism-to-antisemitism-in-labour/
Much happening this week, then?
No comrade. Nothing to see here. We're just carrying on preparing for the revolution and generally being nice to everyone
Solidarity, comrade.
^beginning to sound like an Alexei Sayle script.
Speaking of which, whatever happened to Ernie? I miss him and his revolutionary fervour
[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/28559970906_2f1bfb64f3_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/28559970906_2f1bfb64f3_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/KvKjku ]Ernie-iphone[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/14162682@N00/ ]bin lid[/url], on Flickr
Coo! Now over 35 years’ young...
More recently - Alexei Sayle's The Absence of Normal is on R4 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002rjl
Much happening this week, then?
Not sure it's new news but this just popped up on my BBC news page.
Possible equalities and hunan rights commission
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47482048
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47488047
Is Amber Rudd planning on a leap to the racist labour party 😉
Hah. If anyone's shocked by Amber Rudd saying "coloured" they can't have paid too much attention to her time as home secretary. Or maybe all that gets deleted when you resign to protect your equally racist boss and then return to the front bench 17 minutes later. Getting in a tizz because she said the wrong word, after Windrush... no, not after, because it's still happening
I don’t think any party that has Boris Johnson in it (as a potential leader, no less) can’t really make any claims about not being racist
Then again, the fact that both our main political parties are now openly racist is probably an appropriate comment on this shitty Brexit country
