[Closed] Lab grown meat is now a reality.

I heard about this on the radio when driving my 12 year old daughter to school this morning.

I asked her if she would eat it and she replied "Urrgh! I don't like the sound of that!".

I then added the point about it being good for the environment and her response changed completely and she said that she would be willing to try it.

There is hope.

Good thing it avoids this problem too https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/01/farm-animals-antibiotics-data-raises-post-brexit-trade-fears

Lost a 38 year old friend to sepsis, and both me and my partner have had bacterial infections that were only brought under control with antibiotics (my partner required 2 weeks in hospital).

Over using antibiotics just so food producers can make meat cheaper seems crazy! It's not like "chlorinated chicken" either, which you could avoid the problem by not buying it. If antiobiotics become less effective we're all stuffed!

Great stuff.

it being good for the environment

Not so sure that'd hold true.
Feels like we should be able to live harmoniously, sustainably and respectfully alongside everything we share this rock with.

This doesn't feel like that.
😶

This doesn’t feel like that

but it’s a step in the right direction though.

Do you need a license to shoot it?

Feels like we should be able to live harmoniously, sustainably and respectfully alongside everything we share this rock with.

I agree, but in practice it doesn't seem to be working out so well. 🙁

They wouldn't be able to open the hatch in the incubator tank. Plus if it is good enough steel they might shoot themselves with the ricochet

Feels like we should be able to live harmoniously, sustainably and respectfully alongside everything we share this rock with.

Not if 6 billion (or a small fraction of that in reality) want to eat a meat based diet. It's impossible, there isn't enough land on the planet. The only solution is the mass production of non-livestock produced meat, and this is a step towards that.

There was an article published by George Monbiot last summer (I think) about lab-grown meat, and he was on the JV show talking about it. His argument was that, due to population/space issues, the days of farmers providing cheap meat for everyone were numbered, and (when the cost came down, as it will) lab-grown meat will take over, purely because it'll be much more cost-efficient to produce. The UK farmer who was on at the same time was not happy about this, but couldn't or wouldn't seem to see that GM's point wasn't that he WANTED to force the farmer out of business, but that was inevitable, due to economics.

(Actually, he wasn't even arguing that farmers would be forced out, just that "real" meat would become a luxury product - with high welfare - which actually I think would be a very good thing)

Surely replacing cheap, industrially farmed meat with (eventually) cheaper lab-grown meat is a good thing, both for welfare and quality reasons? Binner's cheap steak-bakes are mainly arseholes anyway and other barrel-scrapings, at least this is going to be proper chicken breast/steak or whatever!

Anyway, this is a great step forward, could see a potential confusion if they start selling "Eat Just" meat in the UK though... 🤔

Chicken Little. Predicted by Fred Pohl in the early 50s. Sounds great!

Hopefully this lowers the cost of actual meat if demand falls and the hipsters take up their fake virtue signalling lab grown diet.

I'd accept cheaper steak and burgers for some impressionable folk eating highly processed fake rubbish.

#fake moos

I doubt it will make normally produced meat cheaper. More likely now expensive as 'real meat' becomes a premium product as farms can't beat the labs in the race to the cheapest.

Hopefully this lowers the cost of actual meat

Interesting to see what the carbon footprint of this is. I went vegan 11 months ago due to the environmental and ethical impact. I'd probably try this out of curiosity but can't say I miss chicken nuggets.

I would advocate a different approach. Reduce meat consumption to a level where decent farming practices can supply demand.

I think it's a good thing, and as mentioned proper meat will become a luxury item and as such have better welfare and better farming methods to go with it and a reduction in food miles.

I'm sure not everyone will want it but even if it was used in all low grade chicken application think processed nuggets takeaways ect the sheer reduction in dead animals would be huge.

Look where your chicken comes from in your premade meals I'll bet it's from some where like Vietnam or Thailand.

Your saying that animals had good quality of life? Never mind the huge food miles its racked up to wind up in your mouth.

Hopefully this lowers the cost of actual meat if demand falls and the hipsters take up their fake virtue signalling lab grown diet.
I’d accept cheaper steak and burgers for some impressionable folk eating highly processed fake rubbish.

I'd expect the total opposite, Real animal meat, requiring more land/equipment/time/labour will become a more expensive 'luxury' choice... you'll be battling those hipsters for access to genuine cow chunks while the plebs get on chewing their lab grown mystery meat cubes...

It's always pricier being a snob whether it's fashionable or not...

Once lab grown meat is nigh on indistinguishable from regular meat, i'll be switching and not going back. There's literally no reason to ever eat normal meat again once that is a reality. The environmental savings from habitat loss and climate change alone is worth it.

^

Look where your chicken comes from in your premade meals I’ll bet it’s from some where like Vietnam or Thailand.

Look closer to home.

https://plantbasednews.org/culture/severe-animal-suffering-chicken-farms-tesco-mcdonalds/

Chicken is our most popular meat, with 20 million birds slaughtered every week in the UK. The vast majority (86%) of industrial-sized farms are in the poultry sector, with 1,534 industrial-sized farms. Previous research from 2017 found seven out of the 10 largest farms in the UK housed more than 1 million birds.

@airvent

Hopefully this lowers the cost of actual meat if demand falls and the hipsters take up their fake virtue signalling lab grown diet.

Weirdest take on this?

Didn’t so-called hipsters go crazy for ‘prime’ bacon IIRC?

Not if 6 billion (or a small fraction of that in reality) want to eat a meat based diet. It’s impossible, there isn’t enough land on the planet. The only solution is the mass production of non-livestock produced meat, and this is a step towards that.

Well, apart from the other solution of fewer humans of course, but we're not allowed to think that are we... 😉

#fake moos

I feel that this has gotten less applause than it should have so 👏😂👏

I’d accept cheaper steak and burgers for some impressionable folk eating highly processed fake rubbish.

Highly processed rubbish? Where do you think burgers come from, freshly harvested from burger trees in Kent?

... or a ham-bush.

A couple of points....

1. Unless this can be churned out cheaper than industrially farmed protein then it will not get a foothold in the market other than as a niche. As such it will likely be sold as an environmentally friendly option, thus reducing the demand for true high welfare, environmentally friendly/organic farmed meat. So far from improving the lot of farmed animals, it could potentially reduce relative standards.

2. This stuff is not somehow magiced out of the ether. Newtons law says energy cannot be created or destroyed, but merely passed from one form to another. The effects on the environment may not be as visible as herds of cattle grazing where rain forests once grew, but the actual environmental balance aint going to be that different when all things are considered. You cannot get something for nothing.

3. If it does help reduce factory farming then I am all for it. But the scale of what is grown that way currently vs. the scale on which this stuff will need to be produced to replace it in a meaningful way is staggering. This isn't going to be done in a couple of units on an industrial estate in Slough.

Just be careful what you wish for.

I’d accept cheaper steak and burgers for some impressionable folk eating highly processed fake rubbish.

Unless this can be churned out cheaper than industrially farmed protein

I'm guessing you have a little bit of a bias there, user named 'welshfarmer'.

2. This stuff is not somehow magiced out of the ether. Newtons law says energy cannot be created or destroyed, but merely passed from one form to another. The effects on the environment may not be as visible as herds of cattle grazing where rain forests once grew, but the actual environmental balance aint going to be that different when all things are considered. You cannot get something for nothing.

Of course it's not coming from nothing but anything, anything would be a more efficient way to produce meat than what we have at the moment. Also:

The actual environmental balance aint going to be that different when all things are considered

Unless you're part of the development and production of this lab grown meat, how the hell would you know? Sounds like you're just pulling stuff like this out of nowhere?

[strong]tetrode[/strong] wrote:

I’m guessing you have a little bit of a bias there, user named ‘welshfarmer’.

You got me there. However, 20 years of producing meat to the highest possible standards of welfare and to probably some of the highest levels of environmental sustainability in the country would give me a fair reason to question the future of my business model. I would welcome you to my farm to see how it can be done if you were genuinely interested.

[strong]tetrode[/strong] wrote:

Unless you’re part of the development and production of this lab grown meat, how the hell would you know? Sounds like you’re just pulling stuff like this out of nowhere?

I will admit to a bit of educated guesswork here. But I may well now be a farmer, but prior to that I spent a decade working as a scientist gaining a PhD along the way, which kind of gives me a bit of background into understanding how these things really work.

a ham-bush

There's a top-quality dad joke in there, something about mugging people for pork products.

Unless this can be churned out cheaper than industrially farmed protein then it will not get a foothold in the market other than as a niche

I would fully expect it to be a niche product for a good while, but the sky's the limit after that.

Unless you’re part of the development and production of this lab grown meat, how the hell would you know? Sounds like you’re just pulling stuff like this out of nowhere?

Of course you could say the same about anyone claiming that lab-grown meat is (or is going to be) more environmentally efficient than animal grown meat. As welsh farmer says the laws of physics aren't changed... one way or another you are effectively taking energy from sunlight, CO2 and O2 from the atmosphere, some source of nitrogen and water and turning it into palatable protein and a bunch of byproducts. If we've managed to make an approach which is better than millions of years of evolution and hundreds of years of selective breeding then that's quite impressive. Its quite likely though that it just shuffles around who or where the problem rests. I'd suggest the burden is on the new tech to prove it is actually better...

and as mentioned proper meat will become a luxury item and as such have better welfare and better farming methods to go with it and a reduction in food miles.

You mean like diamonds are only dug up in the best of work places, furs are only sourced from ethically to reared animals as they die of old age and so on?

I hate to be the one to break it to you but that ain't the way the world works. Increased demand for luxury alternatives will see standards of production in most of the market drop not increase and the premium value of your luxury product will vanish long before trickle down to production, you might end up paying £5k for an 8oz steak but you can bet your bottom dollar that disappears into the profits and shares of "luxury beef Inc" not organic production.

(also bear in mind the upsurge in meat consumption in recent decades is exactly because it *is* a luxury in much of the world where largely vegetarian diets were /are things of necessity not choice)

In regards to the actual product I'd be intrigued to know how it tastes. Given the flavour of meat depends so much on so many things from diet, to how long it's hung, how the fat is distributed etc I can't see lab grown meat being much more that TVP made of meat.
To that end the aforementioned arsehole abroad eyelids used in pasties etc are likely to get replaced with it, but things we'd consider "real" meat probably won't. I can't see that as an environmental good, since you end up with the same animal production, more waste and additional lab production on top to satisfy the demand for fake steak in place of cheap cuts.

There's a reason they're producing chicken nuggets not kobe steaks.

kayak23
Well, apart from the other solution of fewer humans of course, but we’re not allowed to think that are we…..

There's work in progress on that.

Our govt has a decades long program of culling darker skinned people in distant lands.

More locally there's a programme to get the denser members of our society to self-cull in Anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-vacc demonstrations.

Then there's our govts Eugenics policy to remove the dependent members of society - it's disguised as Universal Credit.

Ye Gods! That was written tongue in cheek, but...

Nah, they can't organise Brexit, so they haven't a hope of a carefully crafted conspiracy.

Meanwhile, I recommend viewing Solyent Green. 🙂

As welsh farmer says the laws of physics aren’t changed… one way or another you are effectively taking energy from sunlight, CO2 and O2 from the atmosphere, some source of nitrogen and water and turning it into palatable protein and a bunch of byproducts.

Sure - but we already know that the process of turning sunlight into food to feed warm-blooded animals so they can be slaughtered is highly inefficient. I'd be staggered if synthetic meat, when produced at scale, isn't substantially better in that regard.

With the current process of converting plants to meat, you are actually making a whole animal (of which a fair bit isn't eaten). In a vat you are only making the stuff that you want to eat.. It should make it more efficient.
I want to see animals raised in the way Welshfarmer does. I don't want to see the massive feed lot animal production. It's part of the reason we are reducing meat content of our meals

Don't get me wrong welshfarmer I have a lot of respect for farmers, I can't imagine how tough of a job it is. I just can't see how lab grown meat would be in any way less efficient than how we do it now.

I will admit to a bit of educated guesswork here. But I may well now be a farmer, but prior to that I spent a decade working as a scientist gaining a PhD along the way, which kind of gives me a bit of background into understanding how these things really work.

Unless your PhD is in the kind of biology or chemistry that directly relates to this kind of science I don't see how it's relevant honestly. I have a degree in Marine Biology but it doesn't mean that I know anything about any other science related field.

With the current process of converting plants to meat, you are actually making a whole animal (of which a fair bit isn’t eaten)

Ah now you know there is only one part of the pig which isn't eaten?

I want to see animals raised in the way Welshfarmer does. I don’t want to see the massive feed lot animal production. It’s part of the reason we are reducing meat content of our meals

Completely agree. As meat eaters (for those of us who are) the best thing we can do is reduce our meat consumption considerably and get it from a reputable butcher who sources it from the likes of welshfarmer.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but that ain’t the way the world works. Increased demand for luxury alternatives will see standards of production in most of the market drop not increase and the premium value of your luxury product will vanish long before trickle down to production, you might end up paying £5k for an 8oz steak but you can bet your bottom dollar that disappears into the profits and shares of “luxury beef Inc” not organic production.

Winner of today's massive fanciful assumption award.

This stuff is not somehow magiced out of the ether. Newtons law says energy cannot be created or destroyed, but merely passed from one form to another. The effects on the environment may not be as visible as herds of cattle grazing where rain forests once grew, but the actual environmental balance aint going to be that different when all things are considered. You cannot get something for nothing.

You're correct, but very selective with the science.

You're taking CO2 and N2 from the air and turning it into proteins.

Plants do that by fixing nitrogen into the soil and photosynthesis. Animals then eat the plants. Remember that animals cannot fix nitrogen, we can synthesize amino acids into protein chains, but we cannot produce protein.

This is where "synthetic" protein is going to be a winner. A Lamb has to run around expending the vast majority of the energy it consumes leaving very little to go on up the food chain. Something in a lab won't do. There's a stat that even with our climate and geography being almost ideal for rearing animals, 80% of Soy imported into the country goes into animal feed, who then burn it off and it's largely wasted. So if you feed your lambs anything, then it's probably linked to burning rainforests.

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2019/10/09/the-bbc-reveals-a-shocking-fact-about-the-uks-complicity-in-brazilian-forest-fires/

Personally, I wouldn't have it, I don't see the point. I'm veggie and trying out lots of new stuff. I had some fairly generic-looking "soy chunks" from an Indian shop the other day, looked like dry dog biscuits but I was curious. TBH I've had cheap chicken with less flavor and texture. And this stuff was cheap, I had about 30p worth and was stuffed!

Ok as someone who works for an animal feed company that has invested in lab grown meat there are a couple of assumptions mentioned on this thread. The major advantage of lab grown steak is the fact that it is only the muscle or fat cells (if it’s a printed meat) that you culture. No bones or brain or superfluous tissue. The current life cycle assessments indicate that lab grown meat will initially have a much larger footprint but in theory economies of scale should kick in eventually. The key question is what will the lab grown products be fed on. Currently it is media from lab supplies but the industry needs to change that to ‘normal’ raw materials to make it cost effective. There are a number of technological barriers to that happening which need to be addressed before it will be a significant part of the food supply chain.

Sure – but we already know that the process of turning sunlight into food to feed warm-blooded animals so they can be slaughtered is highly inefficient. I’d be staggered if synthetic meat, when produced at scale, isn’t substantially better in that regard.

I just can’t see how lab grown meat would be in any way less efficient than how we do it now.

How many chemical plants have you guys walked round (scaled up lab grown meat is basically going to be a big biochemistry facility)? Energy to heat stuff up, energy to cool stuff down, raw materials purified with huge quantities of water and consequently lots of waste-water with pollutants in it (either directly entering the environment or going through an AD plant producing CO2 etc), raw materials shipped around the globe. Water and chemicals to clean and disinfect everything between production runs. Staff to maintain it all - who all drove to work, lighting all over the place, big tanks and vats all made from stainless steel, welded together and with specialist treatment chemicals to manage corrosion etc. That's rather different to an cow, pig or sheep which is largely autonomous in production.

Then add in, with no animal manure, as a by-product from meat production you are looking at more synthetic fertiliser. With no leather and wool as a by-product from meat production you are looking at more synthetic fibres, with the consequential environmental impact. Unless there is a market for the by-products of lab-grown meat then you've got a waste stream not a useful product.

Now there may be questions about the efficiency of imported feedstock but labelling "lab-grown" as better than "farmed" but measuring farmed on the worst possible efficiency and the lab-grown on speculation of how efficient it might one day be is rather nonsensical. If the aim is simply to improve the eco-friendliness of meat stop making fake meat and invest the same effort in improving farming practices (eg. using the Aussie seaweed that is reported to reduce CH4 emission massively; financial incentives for UK sourced feeds etc). The people in the fake meat business are predominantly not in it to save the planet - they are in it for £££ (or more often $$$).

Staff to maintain it all – who all drove to work, lighting all over the place, big tanks and vats all made from stainless steel, welded together and with specialist treatment chemicals to manage corrosion etc. That’s rather different to an cow, pig or sheep which is largely autonomous in production.

That’s rather different to an cow, pig or sheep which is largely autonomous in production.

It's interesting that you described the wastefulness of industrial-scale production without noting that exactly the same applies to the feeding, rearing, slaughtering and distribution of meat. And the livestock you claim to be autonomous is busy wasting about 90% of its inefficiently-produced food through the production of heat.