His relative power is beside the point, the guy in question was 14 at the time.
the apology is inevitable but i am struggling to think how anyone could get so drunk they wait till a party is empty and then carry a 14 year old to their bed then lay on top of them and dont recall it.
I dont drink often but that seems to me the sort of thing that would likely stick in your mind
Yes, but who do you think the headline writers would be going after? Them or the actors?
What you mean suggesting that you were part of a culture that promoted sex for work? I think anyone admitting to that would be on very shaky ground as to how that was both handled and why it was expected.
Yes, but who do you think the headline writers would be going after?
the person in power.
Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have
Me made a pass on someone, they turned him down, they left it at that. Happens everyday.
The fact the person he made a pass on was 14 is obviously an issue (he was in his 20s at the time), but if he didn’t know, he didn’t know again - afaik he found someone laying on his bed, tried it on, took the rebuff like a gent.
afaik he found someone laying on his bed, tried it on, took the rebuff like a gent.
If you read the article he picked up the CHILD, carried him to the bed and laid on top of him. Assuming it's true he molested a child whether he succeeded to the level he wanted to or not.
Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have
I think most of us have. But sober or drunk I haven't ever climbed on top of a minor. What you do drunk is inevitably somewhere inside you when sober...
[quote=tjagain ]Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have
No never happened and i am able to say I have never picked up a 14 year old child placed them on bed mounted them and tried to innate sexual congress with them whether drunk or sober
i am struggling to think how anyone could get so drunk they wait till a party is empty and then carry a 14 year old to their bed then lay on top of them and dont recall it.
Assumes that booze was the only intoxicating substance involved.
And yeah I can totally believe that. 26 year old me certainly had drunken escapades related to me that I had no recollection of. (Though not involving any attempted kiddie fiddling thankfully!!)
If it turns out to be an isolated incident and it becomes accepted that it did happen and he was sorry it was a lapse in judgement due to being very drunk I don’t think it will finish him, rightly or wrongly.
Roman Polanski won an Oscar in2002 despite his bit of statutory child rape of a 13 year old girl.
How did he continue working?
tjagain - Member
Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have
Most haven't, don't judge everyone by your own nefarious levels.
How did he continue working?
I think because he exiled himself to France? He's been a fugative from US Justice since 1978. Still doesn't answer your question though, just raises more about the French attitude towards undersage sex.
And Hollywood’s stars still worked with him and the academy still gave him an Oscar.
I remember when that schoolteacher ran away to France with his 15yr old student. Here the publics attitude was the peado needs locking up. In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.
giantalkali
Made me laugh. great use of the word "nefarious"
and people still listen to, attend concerts and radio stations still play records by the Who but no one does this with Gary Glitter.
I respect Graham and TJ so its interesting to read about others nefarious activities
I remember when that schoolteacher ran away to France with his 15yr old student. Here the publics attitude was the peado needs locking up. In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.
I wonder why?
Most haven't, don't judge everyone by your own nefarious levels.
Others have though.
Polanski - remember he admitted it and did a plea deal that meant no custodial sentence. Its only when the authorities reneged on the deal he fled.
Also remember some state allow you to get married ( or did) at that sort of age. Jerry lee lewis married his 13 yr old cousin
I’m getting really cheesed off with “trials by media” where half arsed facts/none truths/fake news/gossiping is treated and pawed all over even before any trial or court appearance or offending accusations have been laid.
Y’all just live in a soap opera..
In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.
Age of consent in France is 15, 14 in Germany and 12 in Spain until 1999.
Polanski - remember he admitted it and did a plea deal that meant no custodial sentence. Its only when the authorities reneged on the deal he fled.
The judge reneged on the deal but he paid substantial damages to the women in question much later.
I thought the age of consent in France was 15 but my post was very much about public attitude. And the French were not bothered by him being her teacher. Do they not have the same duty of care laws there.
mefty - MemberHis relative power is beside the point, the guy in question was 14 at the time.
It's relevant in the context of Harvey Weinstein. If Spacey was in the position to offer $1million+ acting roles in exchange for sexual favours then who's to say other 14 year old boys wouldn't have accepted his advances.
I suppose we might find out if that turned out to be the case going forward.
I realise it's ironic that I posted about the soft bigotry of low expectations but I didn't put 2 and 2 together regarding the boy being 14, and Bryan Singer's "trouble" with 14 year old boys and his infamous pool parties.
Out of interest are the same sex ages of consent the same as heterosexual ages of consent in the states
and 13 in Spain until 2015.Age of consent in France is 15, 14 in Germany and 12 in Spain until 1999.
I am sure some woman would be happy to sleep with a director to get a part in a film, I know a girl who would give a blow job to a cab driver if she thought he was passable to save herself cab fare home on a Saturday night.
But if you had millions invested in a film project would you risk its success and give the part to someone simply because they would lay with you over an actor actress you believed would do the best job to bring success to the role and film.
Iwhen you are that rich you could fill a hotel room with a hundred Hookers if you wanted to get your rocks off.
With Weinstein I think it was about the power he had and he had grown to believe he could get away with anything with woman regardless of there role in the industry because of his self perceived untouchable status. There was that saying you will never work in this town again.
I’m getting really cheesed off with “trials by media” where half arsed facts/none truths/fake news/gossiping is treated and pawed all over even before any trial or court appearance or offending accusations have been laid.
Sometimes it needs a trial by media to kick the authorities into doing anything. Far too often complaints of sexual misconduct, assault and rape have been ignored by the authorities we rely on to protect us because of the supposed power and/or fame of the perpetrator. The Saville revelations went some way to chip away at the abuse by celebrities in the UK, the Wheinstine case looks to have done so again at a wider group of authority figures and more internationally.
It has also brought the conversation around to the normalised every day misogyny that we all might ignore, participate in or facilitate. Which is realistically a much needed conversation.
chip - MemberBut if you had millions invested in a film project would you risk its success and give the part to someone simply because they would lay with you over an actor actress you believed would do the best job to bring success to the role and film.
There's probably a lot of levels to it. At one level you have aspiring actresses who just want their big break. They're not looking for lead roles, but a foot in the door. Then you'd have lead actresses who aren't necessarily fully developed or pivotal characters. There's also the realistic possibility that there are literally thousands of women who are equally as capable - so who wants it more.
Iwhen you are that rich you could fill a hotel room with a hundred Hookers if you wanted to get your rocks off.
He probably did that too.
I also don't believe that someone like Weinstein is as clear as "I will give you this role if you do this with me now". I suspect it's using the power that he has in terms of influence he can wield not a specific carrot and stick. I would imagine had he spent his career offering roles in return for sexual favours he'd have not been as successful in terms of both his sexual abuse nor his films as the Weinstein Company don't seem to do more than 8-10 films a year and a good number of those are just released by them not produced.
And the French were not bothered by him being her teacher. Do they not have the same duty of care laws there.
I think that it's culturally a bit different. President Macron's wife was his teacher (and has two kids that are older than him), although they didn't get together until he was 18, apparently.
Again with regard to Weinstein a woman rang lbc who worked for his company here in an office role and when he was in the uk she would arrange meetings and the like.
She was told one morning that Harvey had decided to work from his hotel room that day and requested she meet him there.
She said she was told beforehand to expect him to spend most of the day in either a dressing gown or a towel and he would probably ask for massage and if he did to say no.
She said he did both and spent the whole time trying to stay away from him until he got the message, he did not ask for her again.
The man is a total slime and I’m sure his brother and there company knew exactly what he was like.
its unlikely the company were unaware and unlikely the industry was not aware of his MO
its the cover up that we need to deal with and that culture of acceptance of it because he is a "genius" or "powerful" or just because he makes us money.
Unfortunately predators will exist it is how we deal with them and how we help the victims [ and prevent their being more] that really matters
What percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.
Sadly probably a lot more than you would hope.
Is a pop star sleeping with groupies taking advantage of a position of power. I can’t remember which one but one of one direction had the record of sleeping with the most fans in one day, fiive fans individualy in one day when they toured the states.
They I am guessing were all over the age of consent and fully consenting. But would he have had the same success if he was not famous.
Is a pop star sleeping with groupies taking advantage of a position of power.
If the groupie wants it to happen then no. It really isn't that complicated, if both people actually want it to happen then its fine. If the pop star uses their fame/power to coerce the groupie into doing something they don't want to do it isn't.
Have you seen the way some teenage fans behave.
Rational thinking may not always prevail.
Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but
I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspective
You can quite literally use Google to find out the claims.
It sounds non ideal but consistent with a reasonably normal range of behaviour and far, far away from Weinstein type antics. He had a party, this guy got bored and went to watch telly in his bedroom, he was drunk and horny and someone was in his room, he made a drunken clumsy OTT attempt at seduction that may have strayed into sexual assault, particularly considering his age. Ill advised/wrong, but miles away from tricking people into coming into your hotel room and trying to coerce them into sexual acts.
Didn't we already do the "all men are monsters" thread recently? I seem to recall it went really well.
chip - MemberWhat percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.
Sadly probably a lot more than you would hope.
Take a look at the international statistics for rape, but keep in mind that in some countries and cultures it is basically impossible for a man to be convicted of rape, and (often in the same culture) women who allege rape will be punished by the law.
Rape and gross sexual harassment is not as prevalent in modern civilised cultures because of empathy and respect. Most men could probably get away with a rape or sexual assault if they planned it out. Same with murder. We're not hanging by a thread on the precipice of violent or sexual crimes at a moments notice, there are cultural and ethical reasons why this is so, not just the fact it's illegal.
A pop star sleeping with groupies isn't comparable to Weinstein, it's the complete opposite. Famous women, if they were want to do so could also sleep with plenty of their fans.
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Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but
All I can find is he picked him up and put him on the bed and tried to get with me sexually which could mean many things but there still is the age thing.
He could have been a strapping lad at fourteen that his age may not have been apparent to spacey in his state.
Does it say if he knew how old he was.
A pop star sleeping with groupies isn't comparable to Weinstein, it's the complete opposite.
I did not mean to compare it just asking a question,
I wonder if Meryl Streep will give her views on all the matters happening at Hollywood now ... hhmmm ... I wonder.
There have been rumours about his liking young men for many years, along with hints of sleaziness. I don't recall anything about underage boys or sexual assault but let's see what emerges now.
What percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.
Well I did some reading around this recently as a result of 'that' thread and there are a number of studies that give figures which range between 2% and 4%. Don't ask me to cite the papers, you can do your own research.
Of course as close to 100% as makes no difference have at some point made a pass at someone.
The Spacey story is only troubling because of the age of the individual concerned but that itself is only based on if he knew beyond reasonable doubt that the boy was under age. At 14, it would be difficult not to.
