[Closed] Kevin Spacey - why is he allowed the I’m sorry card...

Who says he's allowed it?

especially as he killed Gwineth Paltrow too. Thought we'd finally nailed him with this..

weinstein tried the same approach at the start of this. didn't work for him.

I'm telling you he's Keyser Söze!

Because he is the president.

He’s openly apologised not denying it or admitting it, he says he can’t recall the event.

That’s not the same as being allowed to happen.

And of course now someone has spoken out about Spacey, you can be sure others will too.

I think there are going to be a great number of people in the public eye now looking over their shoulders now the floodgates appear to be opening.

[i]he says he can’t recall the event.[/i]

but he also said he distinctly remembers being so drunk he can't recall what he did.

Surely everyone is [i]allowed[/i] to be sorry?

Whether that is enough to satisfy the press, public and law remains to be seen.

johndoh - Member
And of course now someone has spoken out about Spacey, you can be sure others will too.

I think there are going to be a great number of people in the public eye now looking over their shoulders now the floodgates appear to be opening.

This

Im not convinced this hasnt finished his career, no idea what the chances of him being charged over this, but youd hope it is fully investigated.

There are apparently serious allegations against a number of MPs from all parties, of various levels of sexual assault, I can see this snowballing

First, a one-off drunken pass (ok, assault) isn't quite the same level as what some others have been accused of (would change if multiple others came out of the woodwork, but not yet AFAIK). Second, he wasn't in the same sort of position of power. Third, a nice bit of distraction with "I'm gay"!

but he also said he distinctly remembers being so drunk he can't recall what he did.

Not quite how I read his statement on Twitter:
[img] :large[/img]
- https://twitter.com/KevinSpacey/status/924848412842971136/

unfitgeezer - Member

...why is it some Hollywood stars are allowed the I’m sorry card ?? He miraculously doesn’t remember!

Quinton T knew of antics that went on with HW but yet nothing is said about him.

Seems the rules or lack of are made up

Thoughts

My first thought is I wish I didn't have to google everything in your OP to understand what the hell you are talking about but now that I have I will attempt to answer.

First of all, is Spacey outed by this? there's that to consider. Then there's probably the soft bigotry of low expectations - ie perhaps some people just assume that's how gay men in Hollywood act.

As for Tarantino, everyone in Hollywood knew about Weinstein. There's speculation that several famous actresses are keeping silent because they slept with him for parts. There's no point singling out one guy if everyone was complicit in what looks like rampant serial sexual harassment.

Oddly enough I remember something about his behaviour appearing on some gossip mailing list back in the 90s or early 2000s.

My second thought is WTF were the parents doing? I don't think my parents would have let me be invited to a nightclub by a man (or woman) twice my age. Course I've not ended up as an actor so perhaps in those sorts of circles this stuff is normal.

but he also said he distinctly remembers being so drunk he can't recall what he did.

I recall being drunk at my 21st but not every event. That was a long time ago.

I think it was the alleged victim who claimed Spacey was drunk though.

Third, a nice bit of distraction with "I'm gay"!

It was a long time ago and he was drunk and if rumours are to be believed, it might be difficult for him to remember this one specific incident over all the others.

I think coming out is pretty low, it's got to have been done to try to distract the press.

I'm not defending anyone here, but does an accusation now mean guilty? Is trial by media a valid court?

Just something to consider.

What I suspect we're about to find out, is that just about everybody with some power over others has abused that power in some way.
Sometimes, sexually, sometimes not, but I think that the number of accusations is going to be so high that most of it is going to be brushed under the carpet in some way- I'm sure I saw somewhere earlier that 30 something Tory MP's were up fro investigation. And that's only one side of one house.

Going forward, a different story- at least in the short term people are going to be a lot more careful in their behaviours, maybe it'll stick, maybe not, but it's hard to get rid of ingrained privileged behaviours.

I think coming out is pretty low, it's got to have been done to try to distract the press.

TBH, I thought he'd either come out years ago, or it was so widely known that he was gay that nobody gave it two thoughts.

There's certainly an element in some of these mea culpa which is "Don't remember this at all/like described but I'm sorry". Depending on your viewpoint this is either:

1, Admitting it
2, Trying to defuse things rather than attack a victim
3, Denying it

It's too much to hope that any celeb where there's no proof will come out and say "Yep, I did it. sorry" so we're left with nebulous statements that can mean whatever the reader wants (until loads of people come out and say that they were also assaulted).

Powerful people in Hollywood sexually exploiting young actors.

Who'd of thought it?

gobuchul - Member

Powerful people in Hollywood sexually exploiting young actors.

I just had a look at Kevin Spacey's filmography and it looks like his career in film and tv only really starts around 1986. Now he was acting in theatre before that and might have amassed a reputation as a future star but he couldn't really have had that much "power".

As an aside, it's worth looking at the careers of Bryan Singer and Victor Salva in order to gauge the complete lack of morality, or the tolerance for immorality in Hollywood. Singer has repeatedly been accused of sexual misconduct with young teenage boys and Salva is a convicted pedophile. You would imagine such a thing would ruin careers - nope.

I think coming out is pretty low, it's got to have been done to try to distract the press.

I see it as ‘you know what I’m going to tell my sexuality while I’m on as so many have been obsessed by it for years even though it has **** all to do with anyone and this story will just fuel the speculation.’

TBH, I thought he'd either come out years ago, or it was so widely known that he was gay that nobody gave it two thoughts.

Absolutely. It didn't need to be said before and it doesn't need to be said now.

Certainly not sure he has got away with the sorry card?

But if the details of the story are accurate, I'm pretty sure I would start with saying sorry. But I wouldn't expect that would make it all go away.

I don't think blurring the situation by coming out acts as anything but a diversion, possible cynical attempt to garner support.

I just had a look at Kevin Spacey's filmography and it looks like his career in film and tv only really starts around 1986. Now he was acting in theatre before that and might have amassed a reputation as a future star but he couldn't really have had that much "power".

Quite - Spacey was 26 when this alleged incident happened in 1986.

That's also where [url= http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000228/ ]his Filmography starts on IMDB[/url]. In 1987 he had a bit part in "The Equaliser" series and a part in a TV Movie. Not exactly a big star at that point.

I didn't know he was gay.

I didn't know he was gay.

Have you heard about Joe Cocker?

I didn't know he was gay.

Or me not that it would matter if I did. Seems some on STW have a gaydar that reaches all the way to Hollywood.

How is "nothing said" about Tarantino??

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/19/entertainment/quentin-tarantino-harvey-weinstein/index.html

And to me, it's pretty obvious why Tarantino kept quiet, the same way the women kept quiet, until now.

Spacey's gay? *shrug*

Powerful people in Hollywood sexually exploiting young actors.

Spacey would have been 28 at the time and had a handful of tv roles by then.

I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspective, if it was a drunken pass that's one thing.If it was an assault or abuse that's another.
There seems to be a ripple effect [ like after the Saville revelations] whereby having let the bigger villains off the press we round up a pathetic entourage of relatively lesser offenders to satisfy the public wish to see something done.
I'm not minimising what may have been serious behaviour, just saying we need a bit of objectivity or we'll have to arrest every male in Hollywood over a certain age .

Spacey keep talking and walking babies in his basement?

Spacey would have been 28 at the time and had a handful of tv roles by then.

That's also where his Filmography starts on IMDB. In 1987 he had a bit part in "The Equaliser" series and a part in a TV Movie. Not exactly a big star at that point.

However, he was quite a theatre actor by then, probably very well connected, starring alongside the likes of Jack Lemmon according to wiki.

I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspective..

Fairly clear description of the alleged events in The Guardian article:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/30/kevin-spacey-anthony-rapp-apologises-accused-sexual-advance-14-year-old-boy

And even more in the original BuzzFeed article:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/anthony-rapp-kevin-spacey-made-sexual-advance-when-i-was-14

However, he was quite a theatre actor by then, probably very well connected, starring alongside the likes of Jack Lemmon according to wiki.

[url= https://www.broadwayworld.com/people/Kevin-Spacey/ ]hardly stellar[/url]

gobuchul - Member

However, he was quite a theatre actor by then, probably very well connected, starring alongside the likes of Jack Lemmon according to wiki.

Still a nobody in Hollywood terms though. That being said, it could turn out that Spacey is into young(ish) boys, not unlike his good friend Bryan Singer.

This might be just be the start.

Having read the apology it seems to me about as good as he could do. I don't know what else he could do now apart from that apology

Such rumours have been around for while, much like Weinstein although his are more nunerous and more serious with regard to rapes.

Conflicted really as Spacey is one of my favourite actors and past Artistic Director at the Old Vic wjere he was instrumental in reviving the theatre (edit have seen in twice on stage inc in Richard III and he was outstanding)

If more amd more serious allegations come out he will be finished too

I'm a bit surprised the allegations haven't been flowing the other way yet. Ie producers and directors etc outing people who have offered to 'service' them in exchange for a role.

km79 - Member
I'm a bit surprised the allegations haven't been flowing the other way yet. Ie producers and directors etc outing people who have offered to 'service' them in exchange for a role.

I don't know what else he could do now apart from that apology

Probably engage some legal advice?

If the story is true, and that we don't know, I would think you would have to be pretty smashed to forget trying it on with a child. I think that could be one of those extreme shudder monkey moments.

His relative power is beside the point, the guy in question was 14 at the time.

the apology is inevitable but i am struggling to think how anyone could get so drunk they wait till a party is empty and then carry a 14 year old to their bed then lay on top of them and dont recall it.

I dont drink often but that seems to me the sort of thing that would likely stick in your mind

What you mean suggesting that you were part of a culture that promoted sex for work? I think anyone admitting to that would be on very shaky ground as to how that was both handled and why it was expected.

Yes, but who do you think the headline writers would be going after?

Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have

Me made a pass on someone, they turned him down, they left it at that. Happens everyday.

The fact the person he made a pass on was 14 is obviously an issue (he was in his 20s at the time), but if he didn’t know, he didn’t know again - afaik he found someone laying on his bed, tried it on, took the rebuff like a gent.

afaik he found someone laying on his bed, tried it on, took the rebuff like a gent.

If you read the article he picked up the CHILD, carried him to the bed and laid on top of him. Assuming it's true he molested a child whether he succeeded to the level he wanted to or not.

Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have

I think most of us have. But sober or drunk I haven't ever climbed on top of a minor. What you do drunk is inevitably somewhere inside you when sober...

[quote=tjagain ]Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have

No never happened and i am able to say I have never picked up a 14 year old child placed them on bed mounted them and tried to innate sexual congress with them whether drunk or sober

i am struggling to think how anyone could get so drunk they wait till a party is empty and then carry a 14 year old to their bed then lay on top of them and dont recall it.

Assumes that booze was the only intoxicating substance involved.

And yeah I can totally believe that. 26 year old me certainly had drunken escapades related to me that I had no recollection of. (Though not involving any attempted kiddie fiddling thankfully!!)

If it turns out to be an isolated incident and it becomes accepted that it did happen and he was sorry it was a lapse in judgement due to being very drunk I don’t think it will finish him, rightly or wrongly.

Roman Polanski won an Oscar in2002 despite his bit of statutory child rape of a 13 year old girl.
How did he continue working?

tjagain - Member
Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have

Most haven't, don't judge everyone by your own nefarious levels.

How did he continue working?

I think because he exiled himself to France? He's been a fugative from US Justice since 1978. Still doesn't answer your question though, just raises more about the French attitude towards undersage sex.

And Hollywood’s stars still worked with him and the academy still gave him an Oscar.

I remember when that schoolteacher ran away to France with his 15yr old student. Here the publics attitude was the peado needs locking up. In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.

giantalkali

Made me laugh. great use of the word "nefarious"

and people still listen to, attend concerts and radio stations still play records by the Who but no one does this with Gary Glitter.

I respect Graham and TJ so its interesting to read about others nefarious activities

I remember when that schoolteacher ran away to France with his 15yr old student. Here the publics attitude was the peado needs locking up. In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.

I wonder why?

Most haven't, don't judge everyone by your own nefarious levels.

Others have though.

Polanski - remember he admitted it and did a plea deal that meant no custodial sentence. Its only when the authorities reneged on the deal he fled.

Also remember some state allow you to get married ( or did) at that sort of age. Jerry lee lewis married his 13 yr old cousin

I’m getting really cheesed off with “trials by media” where half arsed facts/none truths/fake news/gossiping is treated and pawed all over even before any trial or court appearance or offending accusations have been laid.

Y’all just live in a soap opera..

In France it was she’s 15 what’s the problem.

Age of consent in France is 15, 14 in Germany and 12 in Spain until 1999.

Polanski - remember he admitted it and did a plea deal that meant no custodial sentence. Its only when the authorities reneged on the deal he fled.

The judge reneged on the deal but he paid substantial damages to the women in question much later.

I thought the age of consent in France was 15 but my post was very much about public attitude. And the French were not bothered by him being her teacher. Do they not have the same duty of care laws there.

mefty - Member

His relative power is beside the point, the guy in question was 14 at the time.

It's relevant in the context of Harvey Weinstein. If Spacey was in the position to offer $1million+ acting roles in exchange for sexual favours then who's to say other 14 year old boys wouldn't have accepted his advances.

I suppose we might find out if that turned out to be the case going forward.

I realise it's ironic that I posted about the soft bigotry of low expectations but I didn't put 2 and 2 together regarding the boy being 14, and Bryan Singer's "trouble" with 14 year old boys and his infamous pool parties.

Out of interest are the same sex ages of consent the same as heterosexual ages of consent in the states

Age of consent in France is 15, 14 in Germany and 12 in Spain until 1999.

I am sure some woman would be happy to sleep with a director to get a part in a film, I know a girl who would give a blow job to a cab driver if she thought he was passable to save herself cab fare home on a Saturday night.

But if you had millions invested in a film project would you risk its success and give the part to someone simply because they would lay with you over an actor actress you believed would do the best job to bring success to the role and film.

Iwhen you are that rich you could fill a hotel room with a hundred Hookers if you wanted to get your rocks off.

With Weinstein I think it was about the power he had and he had grown to believe he could get away with anything with woman regardless of there role in the industry because of his self perceived untouchable status. There was that saying you will never work in this town again.

I’m getting really cheesed off with “trials by media” where half arsed facts/none truths/fake news/gossiping is treated and pawed all over even before any trial or court appearance or offending accusations have been laid.

Sometimes it needs a trial by media to kick the authorities into doing anything. Far too often complaints of sexual misconduct, assault and rape have been ignored by the authorities we rely on to protect us because of the supposed power and/or fame of the perpetrator. The Saville revelations went some way to chip away at the abuse by celebrities in the UK, the Wheinstine case looks to have done so again at a wider group of authority figures and more internationally.

It has also brought the conversation around to the normalised every day misogyny that we all might ignore, participate in or facilitate. Which is realistically a much needed conversation.

chip - Member

But if you had millions invested in a film project would you risk its success and give the part to someone simply because they would lay with you over an actor actress you believed would do the best job to bring success to the role and film.

There's probably a lot of levels to it. At one level you have aspiring actresses who just want their big break. They're not looking for lead roles, but a foot in the door. Then you'd have lead actresses who aren't necessarily fully developed or pivotal characters. There's also the realistic possibility that there are literally thousands of women who are equally as capable - so who wants it more.

Iwhen you are that rich you could fill a hotel room with a hundred Hookers if you wanted to get your rocks off.

He probably did that too.

I also don't believe that someone like Weinstein is as clear as "I will give you this role if you do this with me now". I suspect it's using the power that he has in terms of influence he can wield not a specific carrot and stick. I would imagine had he spent his career offering roles in return for sexual favours he'd have not been as successful in terms of both his sexual abuse nor his films as the Weinstein Company don't seem to do more than 8-10 films a year and a good number of those are just released by them not produced.

And the French were not bothered by him being her teacher. Do they not have the same duty of care laws there.

I think that it's culturally a bit different. President Macron's wife was his teacher (and has two kids that are older than him), although they didn't get together until he was 18, apparently.

Again with regard to Weinstein a woman rang lbc who worked for his company here in an office role and when he was in the uk she would arrange meetings and the like.
She was told one morning that Harvey had decided to work from his hotel room that day and requested she meet him there.

She said she was told beforehand to expect him to spend most of the day in either a dressing gown or a towel and he would probably ask for massage and if he did to say no.

She said he did both and spent the whole time trying to stay away from him until he got the message, he did not ask for her again.

The man is a total slime and I’m sure his brother and there company knew exactly what he was like.

its unlikely the company were unaware and unlikely the industry was not aware of his MO

its the cover up that we need to deal with and that culture of acceptance of it because he is a "genius" or "powerful" or just because he makes us money.
Unfortunately predators will exist it is how we deal with them and how we help the victims [ and prevent their being more] that really matters

What percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.
Sadly probably a lot more than you would hope.

Is a pop star sleeping with groupies taking advantage of a position of power. I can’t remember which one but one of one direction had the record of sleeping with the most fans in one day, fiive fans individualy in one day when they toured the states.
They I am guessing were all over the age of consent and fully consenting. But would he have had the same success if he was not famous.

Is a pop star sleeping with groupies taking advantage of a position of power.

If the groupie wants it to happen then no. It really isn't that complicated, if both people actually want it to happen then its fine. If the pop star uses their fame/power to coerce the groupie into doing something they don't want to do it isn't.