[Closed] Ketogenic diet

snake oil alert

Or is it bad science - I forget

....

I think snake oil is allowed as it's mostly fat and protein.

TandemJeremy:

blah blah blah

Tom, have a look over these two links:

http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/keto
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

More info than you can shake a carb free stick at, and guaranteed no TJ.

Edit: ...but I would warn about doing it with lots of cardio. Weights yes, cardio, no. Or at least knock the cardio on the head for the duration of the keto diet. Remember keto diets are usually used by bodybuilders who need an extra kick to get the bf% into the single digits.

For me I would not do that to your body along with the exercise program you suggest.
Loosing weight is best done by re-training yourself to eat a balanced healthy diet with all food groups,smaller portions (not what you think you need but what a 'normal' sized person would eat. I have managed to loose a stone in a month by simply reducing what I thought I needed to eat at lunch to what is actually all I need to eat at lunch. Also cut right down on any alcohol or fizzy drinks and lots of exercise.
Its all in the head Tom, seriously (unless you have some underlying medical reason that keeps weight on ie low thyroid levels)

I'm not seeing it as some kind of "miracle cure" or anything like that.. over the past 3 years I've changed my lifestyle/eating habits so I have smaller balanced portions and exercise every day, losing a total of 48kg/7st so far (yes I was even bigger than I am now)! Its slowed down loads now even though I've upped my cardio quite significantly since getting a road bike.. So after seeing the success of my mate I was consdering trying this to give me some kind of "kick start" again.

So after seeing the success of my mate I was consdering trying this to give me some kind of "kick start" again.

I would wager that the biggest change your friend is doing that you can adopt is the weight training. Couple it with [url= http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741 ]this[/url] and you should be sorted.

Again, something like keto for a short period will be fine to help kickstart fat loss. Just remember a lot of the weight will be water due to carbs being removed from the diet and doing any sort of intense cardio during the keto period is really not such a good idea IMHO.

Loosing weight [s]is best[/s] can be done by re-training yourself to eat a balanced healthy diet with all food groups,smaller portions (not what you think you need but what a 'normal' sized person would eat

FTFY.

I am learning that there are many ways to get fat from your body. Your body is a system with many variables and dependencies that decide what it does with the substances that it ingests.

Tom I know that you have shed masses I remeber you posting your before photo and having ridden with you I know that you are now so much fitter than you were at the start.
Dont be so hard on yourself. You will hit some plateaus in loosing weight which is why I mention the diet of a 'normal' weight person. I thought that two sandwiches a couple of pieces of fruit a yoghurt and bag of french fries ( I know dead fat calories) was what I had to eat to stay alive and not end up having a diabetic hypo.
Reality is one piece of fruit (two if I have no yoghurt) and one sandwich and a packet of french fries (I aint a monk lol) is still enough to fuel me through to tea time. Alcohol very-and I mean very infrequently and normally now a decent single malt or several when I do have one).
Do yourself a food diary for a week (and be brutally honest with yourself) and work out calories in every day. Then work out calories used in exercise (cardio at 75% burns the most fat) and then do the math as to what you need to do.
Lets face it those of us that are overweight have normally spent years putting it on so its always going to be a slow process burning it off and keeping it off.
Just one final tip-make sure you are still drinking lots and lots of water. Stick with it you will get there.

Walkers French Fries have hardly any fat in them.

cardio at 75% burns the most fat

Cardio burns a higher PERCENTAGE of fat WHILST you are doing it. Going harder will burn off more fat ultimately per hour but also run the risk of making you eat more.... And you can't do it for as long...

I used to cook a ketogenic diet to a kid with epilepsy problems .

portions are tiny , and cant see how you could do cardio exercises on it .

Yes agree with you re the cardio at 75% of your max HR does but if you want to be lighter the last thing you want to do is any serious weight work, yes the more muscle you have the greater the calories the body will burn day to day but and I know as I have been there its much easier not too lug around several stone of extra muscle if your chosen sport is MTB'ing. Any increase in your base metabolic rate by either muscle mass or increased cardio work will make you burn fat/food inputted and the faster you can get your internals burning the higher your resting metabolic rate will be surely?
Ketogenic diet-unatural and from what I have seen of people on them they are energyless, cardio unfit dog breathed and have all ended up putting weight back on when they have returned to a normal diet.

Works very well but you'll suffer when cycling. Bloody delicious though...

There was a very good TV series where they put various diets back-to-back. Atkins beat the pants off everything else.

lighter the last thing you want to do is any serious weight work

Depends why you want to be lighter I suppose. More cycling muscle = more strength = more speed I suppose. More chest and arm muscle = more dead weight = less speed.

Atkins is iffy IIRC.

Ketogenic diet-unatural

Atkins died of a heart attack did he not?

No, he slipped on ice walking to work and hit his head. He was in his 70s.

I don't think I'm fussed if I put on a bit of weight through muscle, I just don't want to be squidgy any more 😆

Would perhaps a better thing for me be to just cut down carbs a load and try to get into the 5x5 routine with my friends (doing a different programme/working out by myself will definitely fail, I need motivation!)? Maybe do a targeted keto thing where I carb up before cardio so I won't be drained for the whole ride?

Or perhaps cut out cardio for a while and stick to the weights whilst I'd be on the keto diet?

snake oil alert

Or is it bad science - I forget

Ketogenic diets are pretty proven in terms of weight loss. Not something you'd want to do full time mind.

Atkins died of a heart attack did he not?

Well that's that then.

What shall we talk about now?

yes but if had eaten more carbs he would have cycled and been fine

Would perhaps a better thing for me be to just cut down carbs a load and try to get into the 5x5 routine with my friends (doing a different programme/working out by myself will definitely fail, I need motivation!)?

I am not advocating any sort of diet be it high carb, low carb even low fat ( as too many low fat products are made to taste nice with the addition of lashings of sugar).
A balanced diet which includes foods from all the food groups int the right proportions.
As for the more leg muscle thing being better for biking there is a finite limit for riding and you tend to find that us larger breeds have developed large leg muscles for carrying about our excess or in my case from 25 years of playing rugby and training specifically for that sport with weights etc etc.
Tom if you want to do weights do low weights fast reps and high volume reps to failure, the fast reps are great for the fast twitch muscle fibres and will help with your speed of reaction too.

I don't see what the problem is with the idea that some people respond well to low carb dieting, some respond well to low protein, some can do the cabbage soup diet... etc.

Personally I found that riding 150 miles a week let me eat anything my body wanted if it was low GI and still lose weight steadily. Shame I'm currently drinking heavily and riding more like 50 miles a week 🙁

Your metabolic system may vary. Everyone's system is different.

and another idea: fat people are [i]strong[/i]. They can walk around carrying the equivalent of me on their backs. I couldn't do that all day...

Intramuscular fat acts as leverage. Making strong fat people stronger.

and another idea: fat people are strong.

He ain't lying. Just look at the fatty on the right.....

[img] [/img]

I rode 160-320 miles a week when I worked in Bristol. Held back on the calorie intake.

Lost no weight and burned out, although this may not have been due to the calories.

I think 320 miles a week would wear me out even with intravenous doughnut infusions.

More emptiness and negativity that needs sorting. A salesperson will be along shortly.

More emptiness and negativity that needs sorting. A salesperson will be along shortly.

I am going to sell you a smack on the ass in a minute young man.

Me? spiky? Pah!

It was a 42 mile commute. Only did it four times a week a couple of times though, mostly it was 2 or 3, sometimes got a lift half way. And the job was only like 8 weeks too.

It was at the same time swine flu was going around and someone in the office had it. I suspect I had it, showed no symptoms but all the hard cycling really did me in for a good year afterwards.

a smack on the ass

Promises promises Jamie. 🙂

[img] [/img]

Been on the keto diet for 2 years now and I'm still alive.People who say that you will struggle with energy obviously have no idea about the keto diet.You shift your body from using carbs to fat as the main source of energy.

No matter how much fat your body can use, it will always prefer carbs and you will always perform much better fuelled with carbs, unless you are an alien and have evovled differently.

More emptiness and negativity that needs sorting

There was a lot of emptiness and negativity after struggling with that job... Plus I found out recently I left one of my expensive locks there 🙁

No matter how much fat your body can use, it will always prefer carbs and you will always perform much better fuelled with carbs, unless you are an alien and have evovled differently.

You have that backward.

Humans evolved mostly on proteins/fats and to a lesser extent carbs. The carb rich diets we have now are a relatively recent occurrence.

It's the main crux of the whole Primal/Paleo diet thing.

No I don't.

Doesn't matter what our early diet was, our bodies still use carbs for higher intensity exercise because it takes less oxygen which is in limited supply. That's why we love carbs so much innit.

The paleo diet is for weight loss not max athletic performance which is what I am talking about here specifically. With reference to the above comment about energy levels and the keto diet.

There's a hole in my life.

There'll be a hole in your.. well.. I'm gonna punch a hole in your..

...shuddup, anyway.

Ok 🙁

Until I go to bed (which is now) then you can talk more.

It was a 42 mile commute. Only did it four times a week a couple of times though, mostly it was 2 or 3, sometimes got a lift half way. And the job was only like 8 weeks too.

42 each way, yes - Eastern edge of Cardiff to central Bristol. Best time was 2h04, typical time was 2h25 or so.

I reckon I did four times a week twice maybe. The hardest part was the early start required. Apart from that it was no different to a long ride after work.