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Just remember that most of the EU attackers were from the country they attacked - most were born there.
Bingo...and this is why in this spate of terrorism the role of militant/fanatical islam should be discussed...as you said, most of the attackers are from their host countries, its not about xenophobia or race...its about a section of the islam religion that sees non muslims as 'the enemy' and thinks its ok to blow people up in the name of their religion...its about discussing why ISIS type propaganda is allowed to be hosted on the internet, its about why these group of young muslim men across Europe cant/dont integrate into western society and instead decide to attack it...on the news last night there was a video of young British muslim men with the now deceased (thankfully) Jihadi John, they were from Manchester, Birmingham and other UK cities but had travelled to the Middle East to fight with their Muslim 'brothers'...its about finding out why this happens, what message are they getting from their religious leaders or the religion itself that makes this seem appealing to them...
...Hopkins (for all her faults) knows this is happening, knows there is a problem and is talking about it while politicians keep their heads in the sand and the public are fearful of discussing it because they dont want to be labelled racist etc.
Her style is distasteful to many i'm sure but the message seems spot on.
I thought you were banging on about immigration before?
...Hopkins (for all her faults) knows this is happening, knows there is a problem and is talking about it while politicians keep their heads in the sand and the public are fearful of discussing it because they dont want to be labelled racist etc.Her style is distasteful to many i'm sure but the message seems spot on.
Nope, she is just doing it to make money. Suckers like you allow her to do that.
I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that she will say disgusting things just for attention or the fact that some people agree with what she says. Ignoring her seems to be the best option.
angeldust - MemberNope, she is just doing it to make money. Suckers like you allow her to do that.
It seems far more likely that the engine of outrage allows her to do that. People re-tweeting her tweets, writing articles about her articles and starting threads about her.
She's obviously a provocateur and a bit of a troll but since you get branded a retarded xenophobic racist nazi for even broaching the kind of hot button topics she makes her money from why would she bother with nuance or subtlety.
@deviant - to continue arguing how much you agree with the woman, you really should read the stuff in my link at top of [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/katie-hopkins-talking-at-your-kids-school-good-bad-meh/page/2#post-8741139 ]page 2[/url]
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-katie-hopkins-internment-camp-london-attack-terror-stabbing-muslims-islam-a7775026.html
Wow being disowned by fox news! Next stop Steve Bannon
I thought you were banging on about immigration before?
I'm concerned about both, its not a binary thing, a person can have more concerns than just a single issue...some of the people arrested in the latest terrorist attack are immigrants...some of them were born here...the common theme amongst them is a strand of islam that is hateful and violent.
@deviant - to continue arguing how much you agree with the woman, you really should read the stuff in my link at top of page 2
Agreed. Bet he doesn't though.
and how does that compare to deaths caused by dangerous driving?
the vast majority of immigrants are peace loving people trying to make a better life, there are more british born white people who need locking up for a vast number of crimes than immigrants.
Please go back to the top of page 2 and read those links - like the internment camps - sounds Nazi to me
You don't have an honest debate using Hopkins techniques, she is there to enrage, scare and sell herself. She doesn't care about people - her Scottish comments tell you that, she cares that she can be called on to have an opinion. One that deserves no platform.
I said it would be interpreted badly...but only an idiot would think she literally meant marching muslims to the gas chambers...
It wasn't [i]interpreted[/i] badly at all. You make it sound like a misunderstanding. She knew exactly what she was doing. She was deliberately referencing the holocaust to get publicity and give her far-right fans a stiffy.
...Hopkins (for all her faults) knows this is happening, knows there is a problem and is talking about it while politicians keep their heads in the sand and the public are fearful of discussing it because they dont want to be labelled racist etc.
...or a gingerist.. or a breastist.... or a fattist... or an elitist... or a Scotiaphobe... or anti-feminist...
the message seems spot on.
The one about gunboats firing on refugees (aka "cockroaches"), the one about about breastfeeding women being attention-whores, the one about fat or tattooed people being unemployable, or the one about admiring Ebola for controlling foreign populations?
and how does that compare to deaths caused by dangerous driving?
the vast majority of immigrants are peace loving people trying to make a better life, there are more british born white people who need locking up for a vast number of crimes than immigrants.
Wow, where to start...firstly classic whataboutery and deflection by trying to compare terrorism to driving, most deaths by driving are not murder i.e the driver doesnt set out on their way to kill someone...terrorist using bombs, knifes and cars to attack people are setting out to kill people, there is a massive difference...intent.
Yes the majority are peaceful...does that mean we ignore the threat of militant/fanatical islam?
...and yes there are loads of white people in this country who should be locked up, thats not really surprising in a country where 82% of the population identify as White British is it?!
Are you seriously proposing that as a minority group muslims should get a free pass or terrorism shouldnt be investigated because it doesnt concern the majority of muslims?!...you're sounding like that prat Sadiq Khan who says that living with terrorism is a fact of city life, people like me dont want appeasing statements like that, we want terrorism thoroughly investigated, the perpetrators locked up and strict border controls particularly with regard to the small group of young British muslim men who go off to fight with ISIS and then come back to this country battle hardened and full of hate, harbouring fanatical views, knowledge of bomb making etc...this shouldnt be difficult if the borders are policed properly and the security services are doing their job properly.
Sadly having just come from holiday Gatwick's security seemed non existent compared to Hurghada (Egypt) whose security and incredibly thorough checks were reassuring and demonstrated how seriously they take terrorism.
It seems far more likely that the engine of outrage allows her to do that. People re-tweeting her tweets, writing articles about her articles and starting threads about her.She's obviously a provocateur and a bit of a troll but since you get branded a retarded xenophobic racist nazi for even broaching the kind of hot button topics she makes her money from why would she bother with nuance or subtlety.
Not sure what you are getting at? She is the fuel that feeds the 'engine of outrage', though of course it does already exist. So, they kind of encourage each other I guess. Not sure what your point is regarding nuance/subtlety?
Sadiq Khan who says that living with terrorism is a fact of city life, people like me dont want appeasing statements like that, we want terrorism thoroughly investigated, the perpetrators locked up
🙄 You've been listening to Trump too much!
Do you honestly believe Sadiq Khan was saying we SHOULDN'T investigate terrorism and we SHOULDN'T lock up terrorists???
It's wasn't an appeasing statement, mainly because he didn't say that.
He said [i]"part and parcel of living in a great, global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police"[/i]
Do you disagree with that? Should we [i]not[/i] be prepared? Should we [i]not[/i] be vigilant? Should we [i]not[/i] support the police?
Sadly having just come from holiday Gatwick's security seemed non existent
Are you a young Muslim man who is returning battle-hardened from fighting with ISIS?
Yes the majority are peaceful...does that mean we ignore the threat of militant/fanatical islam?
Of course not. The key is how you do that. Do you think excluding [b]all[/b] Muslims from entering the US is a good solution to this issue? Trump did not try to do that for any reason other than to get the idiot faction to vote for/support him.
You know the American term 'going postal'? It derives from the fact that several incidences of mass murder were carried out by citizens employed by the US postal service. They choose that job, you know, like some people choose a religion. Should all US postal workers thus be screened or excluded from traveling or immigration since there is clearly statistical evidence that they are more likely to be involved in this sort of crime?
Its whataboutery and straw men all the way down for you 2 isnt it 😀
No fan of Hopkins by the way.
It derives from the fact that several incidences of mass murder were carried out by citizens employed by the US postal service. They choose that job, you know, like some people choose a religion. Should all US postal workers thus be screened or excluded from traveling or immigration since there is clearly statistical evidence that they are more likely to be involved in this sort of crime?
No because that would be really silly. You can see that its silly cant you?
No because that would be really silly. You can see that its silly cant you?
Yes, very silly indeed. Like banning all Muslims from entering the US.
My point is that 'Muslim' does not equal 'terrorist', any more than 'Postal worker' equals 'mass murderer'. Apologies if that was not obvious. Note to self: Need to remember that some people on here believe what they read in the Daily Mail.
If everyone just ignored her she would disappear pretty quickly. She thrives not so much on making controversial statements, but on the angry public reaction to them. A classic example of "all publicity is good publicity".
Better surely if every utterance she makes was met with total silence?
Yes, very silly indeed. Like banning all Muslims from entering the US.My point is that 'Muslim' does not equal 'terrorist', any more than 'Postal worker' equals 'mass murderer'. Apologies if that was not obvious. Note to self: Need to remember that some people on here believe what they read in the Daily Mail.
But your doing it again. I dont read the Daily Mail or agree that Muslims should be banned from the US. Why do you think it is a good tactic to try to ascribe views to me which arent mine. Do you think this makes your straw men more valid?
If everyone just ignored her she would disappear pretty quickly. She thrives not so much on making controversial statements, but on the angry public reaction to them. A classic example of "all publicity is good publicity".Better surely if every utterance she makes was met with total silence?
Agreed. I'm disappointed with myself for posting so much on this thread.
Why do you think it is a good tactic to try to ascribe views to me which arent mine
I'm not. None of those comments were aimed directly at you, you raving narcissist :wink:.
I hope she has applied for her CRB check...
only need a PVG (Scotland) check if you are in a room alone with the children. I've spoken many times at school and don't have a PVG certificate
I'm not. None of those comments were aimed directly at you, you raving narcissist :wink:.
But you copied and pasted my comments to make that point. If its just a general point you are making then fine. Looks like another straw man to me, unless you want to aim your comments at someone on this thread specifically?
Sadiq Khan who says that living with terrorism is a fact of city life, people like me dont want appeasing statements like that, we want terrorism thoroughly investigated, the perpetrators locked up
thats a proper twisting of what was actually said there
Plopkins would be proud!
this whole thing is a publicity stunut by a professional troll who appeals to a minority of bigots & the perpetually outraged, we should defo ignore her.
I said it would be interpreted badly...but only an idiot would think she literally meant marching muslims to the gas chambers...the rest of knew she was on about getting tough on fanatical islam and immigration.
It's an interesting one, for all her very obvious odious qualities, being ill-educated isn't one of them. She knew very well what the reaction to her use of the expression "Final Solution" would be, and it was used so she could specifically claim that it's not what she meant, and that "normal, everyday" people would understand.
That she professes to hate those very same normal everyday people for being idiots with pedestrian dull lives with tedious children and a bad attitude to work, is besides the point.
I'm not. None of those comments were aimed directly at you, you raving narcissist :wink:.But you copied and pasted my comments to make that point. If its just a general point you are making then fine. Looks like another straw man to me, unless you want to aim your comments at someone on this thread specifically?
Yes, because you commented on them, and it was not clear that you understood the point. So I clarified it, in case anyone else was confused. The comments are quite clearly aimed at deviant, and anyone who agrees with/takes seriously Hopkin's (!spit!) 'comments'.
Re. the final solution comment, i understand how people interpreted that but i read it the day after the terrorist attack and thought it was simply a message to get tough on islamist terrorism and shore up the immigration system
Christ on a bike, I’ve heard some weak arguments from apologists before, but that really is the ****ing weakest.
Deviant taking up the Ninfan role while he's on sabbatical
Could go a bit like this, although I doubt there will be intentional Q&A.
[url= http://i.imgur.com/Z5FFXPD.pn g" target="_blank">
Four pages.
She might be a vile harpie, but she does the biz time and time again. Because that is what it is, business.
Don't click the links. Don't tag anything on Facebook, ****ter etc.
Deny the parasite the resource it feeds on and it will wither away.
Don't feed the troll, don't link to the troll.
Kh wants it. She loves it. She needs it to.
Perhaps she could double bill with Abu Hamza on the rights of free speech and some American Sports men who are being persecuted for not blindly saluting a flag
A two-hander might work...
Could go a bit like this
It's unlikely to Chester because kids aren't generally like Donnie Darko. They'll sit and listen to it with sullen expressions on their faces, not ask or answer any questions then moan like f*ck about having to sit through a boring lecture from some old woman. And then promptly forget about 90% of it. The 10% they do remember will be some random anecdote about bodily functions largely unrelated to the main thrust of the talk.
Out of interest is there a list of 'tour dates' online anywhere so anyone can make sure there local schools haven't been suckered into this desperate PR stunt?
Or is it more the case of her just waiting for schools to fall over themselves coming to her?
We train pupils to sit through whole days of what they consider to be execrable shite.
Why would they speak up when faced with something we adults (well, most of us) consider to be execrable shite?
Sadly having just come from holiday Gatwick's security seemed non existent compared to Hurghada (Egypt) whose security and incredibly thorough checks were reassuring and demonstrated how seriously they take terrorism.
Are you familiar with the phrases "security carnival" or "security circus". There are a lot of countries that do very visible airport security to make you FEEL safe but lots where they do things that actually make you safer. They are not the same thing. When was the last time a UK departing flight had any sort of terrorist incident on it? There's a reason that softer targets like public spaces are the norm now; airports (in Western Europe at least) are pretty hard to do much in unless you're doing it on the land-side before security.
Sadiq Khan who says that living with terrorism is a fact of city life, people like me dont want appeasing statements like that, we want terrorism thoroughly investigated, the perpetrators locked up
Other posters have already dealt with the selective quoting so... Lots of people seem to forget how long the UK lived under the possibility of being blown up by republican terrorists. When I lived in North London in the early 2000s there were still splinter groups trying to blow things up. Like it or not violence and crime are part of city life whether caused by terrorist groups or just arseholes.
Deviant - have you gone over that list yet and double checked all the things that you agree with?
Deviant - have you gone over that list yet and double checked all the things that you agree with?
lol It's not going to happen :-). TJ school of arguing. Ignore any part of the discussion where you are hopelessly wrong and change the subject. Doubt we will see deviant again on this thread (and certainly not addressing the list). The thing with blind hatred is that it is never really thought through before hand!
Yes, because you commented on them, and it was not clear that you understood the point. So I clarified it, in case anyone else was confused. The comments are quite clearly aimed at deviant, and anyone who agrees with/takes seriously Hopkin's (!spit!) 'comments'.
No you made the comments in relation to my post. Do you know how this stuff works?
Did Deviant claim to be a DM reader or agree with the US Muslim ban on this thread?
My opinion...
I rank Hopkins up there with Piers Morgan on the 'list of people I utterly despise'. She doesn't 'make a point' she just appeals to the hard of thinking with statements that use easy-to-understand language combined with a sentiment that is repeated in publications such as the Daily Mail. Jim Jefferies points this out when he talks about Trump and the wall - just because you understand the words coming out of her mouth, don't believe that it's the truth.
She's a media whore in the most literal sense - saying stuff that she probably doesn't believe in to get attention and increase her public image. I'm certain that she's pretty quick to judge those that sell their bodies for sex, yet figuratively speaking that's what she's doing every time she ignores her own moral compass and stirs up anti-Muslim sentiment to get more coverage for herself. What worries me more is that some people can't see through this and applaud what she says, because she's a 'straight talker' and 'tells it how it is'.
No she doesn't - Muslims aren't an issue in the UK, extremists are a problem in the UK. It's simply a fact that all Muslims aren't terrorists. I don't shout 'racist' at those that disagree with this, but I am tempted to shout 'idiot' because frankly if you believe that you are. Similarly if you agree with the nastiness that comes out of Hopkins, you must be some sort of moron (IMO). I'm all for a discussion about how to deal with extremists, even those that think banning an entire belief makes sense when 99.9% of the followers of said belief aren't going to stand on a train with a bomb. What I'm not going to do is talk to someone who thinks that conveying her point with hate-filled bile just so that she can get a few extra clicks on an article she's written is morally right.
Children are easily influenced, especially by those in a position of responsibility(such as teachers/school). If you invite this vermin into your school to colour your child's opinion of an entire belief system then frankly you don't deserve to have children.
Yes, because you commented on them, and it was not clear that you understood the point. So I clarified it, in case anyone else was confused. The comments are quite clearly aimed at deviant, and anyone who agrees with/takes seriously Hopkin's (!spit!) 'comments'.
No you made the comments in relation to my post. Do you know how this stuff works?
Did Deviant claim to be a DM reader or agree with the US Muslim ban on this thread?
In fact I will save you the bother. I have just skimmed this thread and I cant see that Deviant has claimed support for the Muslim ban or reads the DM. Are you able to copy an paste any, in case I have missed it?
people like me dont want appeasing statements like that,
Do you honestly believe this rubbish?
Are you familiar with the phrases "security carnival" or "security circus". There are a lot of countries that do very visible airport security to make you FEEL safe but lots where they do things that actually make you safer.
You can drive up to the departure terminal at Gatwick (the drop off point) and let a bomb off, people everywhere, it'd be hideous...on check-in my suitcase wasn't scanned in my presence, it may have been once it went through check-in but I couldn't tell you...plus it was locked so couldn't be opened and was still locked at the other end...i was frisked going through to the departure lounge and my hand luggage went through a scanner.
Compare that to Hurghada, you couldn't get near the airport, there was a perimeter fence with a check point meaning you couldn't get a bomb anywhere near passengers, vehicles were only allowed in with the correct paperwork, vehicles were searched and bomb disposal guys checked underneath, passengers were asked for passports etc...get to the terminal, not allowed in the building without flight numbers and tickets...once inside suitcase through a scanner and then onto a table and emptied/searched, frisked and through a scanner myself...suitcase checked in and through to departure lounge, hand luggage scanned, emptied and searched...another frisk and scan for me.
Gatwick didn't search my hand luggage, the frisk was laughably inadequate...the one in Egypt was bordering on intimate in comparison...Gatwick may well have scanned my case but they didn't open it, Egypt scanned and opened it before check-in...then there was the exclusion zone around the airport in Egypt which meant it was essentially closed to the public and only open to holiday makers.
Seemed a whole lot better to me, there is nothing stopping someone walking into Gatwick departures and detonating a device among hundreds of people, you don't need to be able to get it on the plane.
Deviant - have you gone over that list yet and double checked all the things that you agree with?
Yes, read it when it was posted although I've read most of it first hand as I follow her on Twitter...some of it I agree with (although i accept that her delivery irks some people) and some of it is clearly meant as a joke, that people can't tell some of it is humor is worrying.
No you made the comments in relation to my post. Do you know how this stuff works?
The way it works is that you appear to only read the posts you (wrongly) think are directed at you. Can I suggest reading the whole thread? It really isn't about you.
Did Deviant claim to be a DM reader or agree with the US Muslim ban on this thread?
You are struggling a bit now. Hopkins (!spit!) is associated with the DM, and deviant brought up immigration. They are clearly closely related subjects. I'm sure deviant is able to defend himself on this thread if he is not happy with the associations.