[Closed] Just having a laugh on the maintain bike at the weekend. bbc unsafe roads report

Its about certain aspects of cycling.

Does it have to focus on every aspect?

Totally agree with the article.

If it misses out 'too many crap drivers', it won't help improve things.

It does mention slower speeds to improve road safety.

I don't find the roads dangerous at all . a lot of it is down to confidence - I get the odd numpty when I cycle on the road but I tend to get more when driving in the car. the article is about how people feel on the road not an I depth article in to road safety.

50% or whatever think its unsafe, but how many of them have ridden a bike in the last year and just think its unsafe as they are poor drivers! Shit like this makes my blood boil.

The article's about perception of road safety, isn't it? Not actual safety.

Totally agree with the article.

But yeah crap road surface, lack of maintenance, too narrow cycle lanes and downright dangerous road design are also a contributing factor and fixing those will probably reduce the number of victims of twunts, directly reducing the twuntery level would probably do more tho.

I wonder why, when spokespeople like Chris Boardman comment on research like this, they never mention the quality of driving. He'll be fully aware it's a problem so it must be a deliberate decision...

I suspect he might know that the hard-of-thinking driving majority will just start on the old "RLJ, pavement-riding etc etc" nonsense and we won't actually get a reasoned debate or any real level of behaviour change.

That said, my experience over the last couple of years is that the number of people taking time to either wait, or give a clear pass, is increasing, so at some level the current approach is working.

I suspect it's because as more people ride, or know someone who rides, the stark realisation that it's the standard of driving which represents the main risk, is getting through. And this personal experience is more powerful than some 'figurehead' banging on about it.

At the end of the day, I don't need a cycle lane and potholes are not a problem, if the traffic around me is driving properly...

The big elephant in the room though, is those drivers that deliberately attack cyclists - it happens all-too-frequently and the consequences for the cyclist are usually very severe - knackered bike, injury or death... That's the piece that needs stamping down on hard - greater enforcement, proper punishment and making it socially unacceptable...

[i]The article's about perception of road safety, isn't it?[/i]

Exactly.

[i]they never mention the quality of driving. He'll be fully aware it's a problem so it must be a deliberate decision.[/i]

Trying to not make cyclists the "enemy" of drivers? (Any more than they already are)

I'm not convinced this really means anything.

People who very rarely cycle probably over estimate the danger on the roads, as this is the majority of people it skews the results.

I'm also not convinced there is some sort of latent desire for everyone to ride their bikes to work and they are all just waiting on a shiny new cycle lane to be built.

[i]People who very rarely cycle probably over estimate the danger on the roads, as this is the majority of people it skews the results.[/i]

Isn't that part of what it is saying? It doesn't look or appear to be safe, so why cycle?
I cycle regularly, but there's no way I'd let my kid cycle the sort of places I used to when I was a kid. So is my perception wrong too?

I wonder why, when spokespeople like Chris Boardman comment on research like this, they never mention the quality of driving. He'll be fully aware it's a problem so it must be a deliberate decision..

I'm also not convinced there is some sort of latent desire for everyone to ride their bikes to work and they are all just waiting on a shiny new cycle lane to be built.

There's no such thing as a wrong perception 😐

The big elephant in the room though, is those drivers that deliberately attack cyclists - it happens all-too-frequently

Have to say I disagree with that. Ok, I'm not in London, but I cover maybe 4000 miles a year on the roads, most of it commuting into Nottingham, have done for the last 10 years. I have never been attacked by a driver while riding on the road (ok, I gave one a mouthful and he had a go when we had stopped), and I don't know anyone else who has been.

Generalisations like that just reinforce tbe negativity of the BBC report. Anyone who is involved in an incident will rightly tell everyone about it, but lots of people who ride a lot don't have any problems. Drivers are not out to get us. They can be stupid, careless, ignorant, and the consequences of a collision can be horrendous. But the same can be said for pedestrians, and I don't hear them getting all frothed up about it every other day.

Lets focus on supporting efforts to improve driving standards and road layouts, and encourage and support friends and colleagues to cycle, rather than making hysterical comments that just reinforce poor perceptions.

I imagine that many of those drivers who suggested the roads were too dangerous for cyclists weren't doing so from the standpoint of improving things for us.

They'd like cyclists removed from the roads for our own protection.

In my experience better cycling provision does lead to more people cycling. Sure it's not going to be the whole office, but undercover, secure cycle parking, showers in work, and safe, well maintained routes do make a big difference.

Car drivers are not out to deliberately attack cyclists, that's balls. Maybe there are one or two nut jobs, but you can probably count them on one hand.

Cycling education for cyclists would also help (as well as motorists).

I think a lot of people drive on the main busy roads and then imagine cycling on them. There are of course far quieter alternatives, in cities. I spoke to someone about this once and she was completely unaware that there was an alternative route (many alternatives, of course) to the busy urban dual carriage way. Of course there is, how do you think people got around before the DC was built 20 years ago?

Perhaps not surprising that 50% of the population perceive cycling on roads as too dangerous when media focus is on just this and on overblown reporting of cyclists v motorist.

Also agree with....

molgrips - Member

Cycling education for cyclists would also help (as well as motorists).

I think a lot of people drive on the main busy roads and then imagine cycling on them. There are of course far quieter alternatives, in cities. I spoke to someone about this once and she was completely unaware that there was an alternative route (many alternatives, of course) to the busy urban dual carriage way. Of course there is, how do you think people got around before the DC was built 20 years ago?

The problem with saying "The roads are fine*, it's the drivers that are dangerous" is that it leads to "Well, how do we sort that then?"

You can:
A-Get rid of the drivers, or
B-Retrain everyone with a driving license, bring in mandatory regular retests, have tech in the car to assess you for tiredness and sobriety before the car will start, disbale mobile phones when the engine is running and most importantly (and most difficult of all) prevent humans from ever making mistakes.

Now, we can't do A because we still need motor traffic (maybe more restricted than it is now). And we can't do B because it would involve completely removing the distractable, fallible nature of humans.

So, instead we say "drivers and motor vehicles will always exist, so let's give cyclists safe, segregated space**"

*Not saying this is or isn't true
**And those routes should be fast, direct and convenient. http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/lets-get-vehicular/

I'm also not convinced there is some sort of latent desire for everyone to ride their bikes to work and they are all just waiting on a shiny new cycle lane to be built.

I think there is.

a) I refue to cycle to work allong the road route at rush hour anymore, it's just horrible despite being what I'd consider "quiet country roads" the rest of the day. I either use the bridleway if it's dry, or drive.

b) My missus' job might be moving back to the area and She's condidering cycling to work as they've just built a new cycle path allong the side of the main road. A bit pointless, there's a completely off road cycle path 100m from the road, but I guess that's a publicity/visibility problem. My other gripe with the new path is it goes arround the circumfance of the town, not into it where presumably people would actualy want to go! The main road into town is wide enough to be a motorway but only has one lane, yes the cycle path provision allong it is horrible and the number of pedestrian refuges, and 'headlands' sticking out from the pavement make it horrible and potentialy lethal.

The article's about perception of road safety, isn't it?

Exactly.

It is, but pointless headline grabbing dumb as shit surveys just help to increase the perception that cycling is dangerous and that increases the hostility towards cyclists who are just considered dumb shit risk takers as everyone knows a sensible person wouldnt ride a bike because its too dangerous and I therefore wouldnt ride a bikes its too dangerous because a survey in the paper told me so and then we get another survey where 80% of people think cycling is dangerous and I wouldnt cycle because its dangerous and only a minority of dumb as shit risk takers do cycle and most them will be dead soon because I have little regard for these idiots who put their lives at risk

and dont get me started on what I think of people who let children cycle....omg

Calm down dear it's just a [s]comercial[/s] [i]someone else's oppinion[/i].

I don't think it's wrong to say in a fair number of cases that it is too dangerous to cycle if you analyse it rationaly.

For example driving a car is usualy taken as being the most risky thing a person would do regulalry of their own accord, a lot of the H&S stuff I work with (petrochemicals, oil and gas etc) is therefore based on demonstrating mathematicaly that the work 10x safer than that*. I CBA to look up the statistics, but I'd eat my hat if the KSI numbers for riding is not significantly higher than the driving figure per mile, journey or whatever. So by that rational analysis, cycling is too dangerous.

It is however, fun, increaces your life expectancy, reduces illness, and loads of other good things. But they don't stop it being more dangerous than what would be considdered a 'reasnoble' risk.

*if theres about a 1in1000 chance of dying this year in a car accident, then the plant has to have a theoretical chance of killing someone 1in10,000 years.

I'm also not convinced there is some sort of latent desire for everyone to ride their bikes to work and they are all just waiting on a shiny new cycle lane to be built.

Cycling is one of those things that people think they 'ought' to do, to get fit or save the environment or whatever. So they like to think they would do it, but when it comes down to it they need excuses. This is one.

If we removed this excuse it'd be the weather, or the cost, or whatever. Going to the gym isn't dangerous at all, but people still join gyms and fail to go to them in exactly the same way.

But I love watching colleagues arriving at work late and flustered as they drove to tbe gym before driving to the office. Suggesting that they could have had just as good a workout riding into work blows their tiny minds 😆

Cycling is one of those things that people think they 'ought' to do, to get fit or save the environment or whatever. So they like to think they would do it, but when it comes down to it they need excuses. This is one.

Hammer. Nail.

I think that is exactly what I was trying to get at.

When asked "Could you cycle to work" people respond "Ohh Noo, its too dangerous have you seen the roads round here, I mean just the other evening I nearly knocked over a cyclist I didn't see on a country lane..."

What they really mean is driving is more convenient, swapping to cycling would take effort.

I'm as guilty of it as anyone mind you. The wife and I both work close to each other so I drive us in to work.

I can park at my work for free. Me cycling instead requires effort from both of us. Her to find somewhere to park, or use public transport and me to do the actual cycling.

I save cycling for when she works at home!

I cycle to work because I can do most of the 11 miles along a fairly direct safe stress-free path where the biggest concern is rabbits running out from the bushes.

I wouldn't cycle to work if I had to do the same journey by riding along the dual carriageway every day or by taking a meandering detour through the various back roads and rat runs.

So yes, for some people it is no doubt an excuse, but for others it is reality.

Didn't we have a thread on here fairly recently where several posters said they were giving up road cycling because they felt it was too dangerous? What does that tell you?

I think there's a lot of truth in the excuses angle... you hear the same as an excuse for not eating a healthy diet "too expensive", "haven't the time"

You know it's an excuse when you provide a solution or an example which demonstrates it can be done and the resistance just carries on, as opposed to "thanks, that's a great idea"

If we removed this excuse it'd be the weather, or the cost, or whatever. Going to the gym isn't dangerous at all, but people still join gyms and fail to go to them in exactly the same way.

[s]Driving[/s] Parking can be awkward but people do that. Getting the bus can be smelly and horrible but people do that. Cycling simply doesn't feel like a safe and convenient alternative for most people so people don't do it. (the car is more convenient and safer. The bus is safer still)

And by the way, I don't cycle to work because I care in the slightest way about my carbon footprint or how polluting my car is. I cycle because I enjoy it. But the roads as they are now mean that only a very small % of people wil venture out in anything other than a car because it feels dangerous. Wierdos like me in lycra will do it, but will the person I work with who drives her 12 year old to school do it? "No, the roads are too dangerous". Even people I know who cycle reguarly for fun will choose to get up extra early so they can miss the traffic on a Sunday morning.

You're quite right. It needs to be a normal thing to do. And to be honest, this is improving.

However, improving road safety or its perception will certainly encourage some people. There are of course plenty of quiet roads around - people just don't know they are there.

And in standard STW [i]"won't someone think of the children"[/i] mode, (and shamelessly cross-posting from [url= http://road.cc/content/news/122068-half-britons-say-local-roads-too-dangerous-cycling-bbc-poll ]road.cc[/url]) here are some eight year old kids happily cycling to school on their own in Assen:

[img] [/img]

How many eight year old kids in the UK have that opportunity?

Or are the UK kids just making excuses?

Because it seems like when you give kids the chance, cycling is a pretty popular option even in the snow:

[img] [/img]

(pics from [url= http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2013/09/the-school-run-in-assen.html ]aviewfromthecyclepath.com[/url])

The central point of the article appears to be :

Half of British adults believe their local roads are too dangerous to cycle on, a BBC poll has suggested.

Why is that being dismissed, which I assume is the intention behind the comment "Another journalistic master piece" ?

That fits in with my own experience which is that many people feel that the roads where they live are too dangerous to cycle on, is there another survey which suggests otherwise ?

The problem is compounded imo by people having experienced dangerous incidents which has left them injured, or close friends/relatives who have been left injured.

Certainly after I was hit from behind whilst on the club run and catapulted through air leaving me with a fractured back I became a tad nervous about cars coming up behind me.

There's nothing unbelievable about the claim that half of British adults believe their local roads are too dangerous to cycle on imo. Despite the fact that I personally have weighed up the risks and disagree.

The article also claims that "more than half of adults questioned said they felt employers failed to encourage cycling to work", anyone want to challenge that as also being untrue ?

ernie_lynch - Member

Why is that being dismissed, which I assume is the intention behind the comment "Another journalistic master piece" ?

Think he's just referring so speeling mistake in the last paragraph:

"We're really riding the crest of the wave and the more people that get involved in cycling, not just as a sport but for the commute to work or just having a laugh on the [b]maintain bike[/b] at the weekend, is good all round."

Fair enough. I took "No mention of the standard of driving making the roads unsafe" in the OP as meaning that there was dissatisfaction with the content of the article rather than the spelling.

I felt the article seemed to point towards the public feeling cycling on the road was unsafe due to the poor state of it and badly designed cycle paths. It just seemed a bit vague. Reality is the cars and trucks will mow you down and it will be just one of those things.. oops didnt see you there as i was sneezing / blinded by the sun / playing with my satnav or phone... etc.

Didn't we have a thread on here fairly recently where several posters said they were giving up road cycling because they felt it was too dangerous? What does that tell you?

And on that same thread a lot of us said that we thought that things were getting better. Others experiences may vary. I can have a more stressful direct and quicker road commute or add a mile distance and 5-10 minutes to make half of it along canals and cycle paths. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to work round and minimise the risks that obviously do exist.

And on that same thread a lot of us said that we thought that things were getting better...I can have a more stressful direct and quicker road commute or add a mile distance and 5-10 minutes to make half of it along canals and cycle paths.

My road commute has become a lot less stressful since I chose a new route which is only 20% road, I call if my [i]off[/i]road commute and yes I was pretty much scared off of my road route which I've been doing for >10years. By the sounds of it you have also been scared off your usual route, not sure how that equates to