So a friend (ahem) of mine has been called up for Jury service.
That friend politely told them that they were out of the country for 2 months so would not be able to attend and asked for the service to be deferred to a later date (as is allowed)
They kindly ignored said message and have scheduled Jury service for when said friend is out of the country. They have been informed once again but are not responding. Will said friend go to prison for not turning up?
Anecdotally they seem to be trying to take a harder line on people attending. A couple of people at work have had to do it whereas in previous years a letter from the boss has been enough to get them off. It has been causing chaos.
[i]Will said friend go to prison for not turning up?[/i]
Not if they genuinely go out of the country for 2 months.
Otherwise I can see it getting quite complicated rather quickly.
They might not let you back in though. You going anywhere nice?
Probably get on the phone to them, explain what has happened, what is going on and what they have been told. Then ask what they need to do in order to make things right.
I think [s]you[/s] your friend would need to do a little more than just phone them and tell them [s]you[/s] they are out of the country.
They will want to see documents proving this fact (tickets, intinaries that kind of thing).
Would be too easy to wriggle out of otherwise...
Cheers
Danny B
The UKBA should be able to log your comings and goings.
Anecdotally they seem to be trying to take a harder line on people attending
They are, and (at least in England/Wales) a lot of the exemptions have been removed.
[i]They will want to see documents proving this fact (tickets, intinaries that kind of thing).[/i]
and as your friend has already signed a legal statement to the effect they'll be out the country I can imagine there'll be frowns if the paperwork isn;t available to back the claim up?
Alterantively your friend could threaten to predecide the verdict as Not Guilty...
I'm looking forward to watching this escalating if the 'friend' has been telling porkies 🙂
Alternatively your friend could threaten to predecide the verdict as Not Guilty.
Is that not risking being done for contempt of court, which I suppose is one way of getting out of it forever...
A letter from the boss outlining the vital role played by the 'friend' and the loss of business because of the civic duty, blah blah etc.
Should see you right.
Edit; I've just seen you've lied to the courts. Bit daft that.
[url= https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/overview ]All you need to know about Jury Service in the UK[/url]
Cheers
Danny B
Said friend has not lied, said friend is genuinely out of the country (currently is and will be). Can't seem to get a clear direction from them though and said friend doesn't want to go to prison.
Write a signed for letter so that you have proof it arrived stating the facts. Given that you have a legitimate reason, you'll then be fine.
If you are out of the country and can prove it there shouldn't be an issue.
Holidays (according to the link I posted) are a valid reason for not attending but you have to tell them when you will be available in the next 12 months and cannot defer again.
Cheers
Danny B
When I got called up for jury service thankfully I was in a position where it wasn't too disruptive to attend, though they did defer it for a few months.
I always wondered what the outcome would have been if I'd rang up, said "I can't wait to take part in banging some immigrant scumbag down to rights", then persistently nagging them to tell me the "scumbag's name so I can Google them - you know, for research..."!!
DrP
Grade 2 and an EDL t-shirt should do it.
it's one of the few times i am glad i suffer with depression (mental i am 😉 so i have a good excuse not to do it,if i'm ever asked 🙂
I've never really understood the aversion a lot of people have to doing jury service.
I expect the legal justice system to work for me if I ever need it and a cornerstone of that is the fact that jury members are picked ta random from the population. How can we expect other people to do it if we're looking for any excuse not to attend (OP and raceface90 excepted) ourselves?
My wife did it 5 or so years ago and was fascinated - she did a masters degree in Criminal Psychology as a result of her experience.
OP - I'd suggest sending them documentation together with alternative dates you can do (signed for) and not worrying.
I expect the legal justice system to work for me if I ever need it and a cornerstone of that is the fact that jury members are [b]picked ta random[/b] from the population
This is the scary bit for me. Mrs J did 10 days last year. She was scared by the general level of ignorance and inability to understand some fairly basic facts about the case by a significant proportion of the jury.
I'd like consideration given to professional jurors - or at least a test which demonstrates a basic ability to concentrate for more than 5 minutes.
"Holidays (according to the link I posted) are a valid reason for not attending but you have to tell them when you will be available in the next 12 months and cannot defer again."
What if work is abroad ? IE you pay your uk taxes but work abroad a large chunk of the year - but are still a resident in the uk ?
Ive done it before ... went sat in a room , surfed the net on my phone all day , was told about 2pm i wouldnt be required that day - every day for a week.
What happens is your self employed and fully booked up, no one else can do my job and I could end up losing a lot of earnings? They won't cover loss earnings will they?
They will pay some expenses
https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/how-to-claim-expenses
https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/what-you-can-claim
[i]After day [b]201[/b] Over 4 hours £228.06[/i]
😯
, but you can also buy Jury Service insurance
no, won't cover loss of earnings. That's why you can nominate a slot within 12 months - you can then book work around those dates.
I guess it's just like another tax in the end - you pay it once or twice in your life and just have to soak it up when it does happen.
My mum just ignored the letters when she was called up years ago and nothing ever came of it. But she's a stupid bint- I wouldn't recommend her cause of action.
Cheers,
Jamie
What happens is your self employed and fully booked up, no one else can do my job and I could end up losing a lot of earnings? They won't cover loss earnings will they?
I know of a dentist practice that folded because the partner was on jury service and didn't have the appropriate insurance..
DrP
Ive got a letter recently and I am self employed/contractor. If I dont work i dont get paid and the amount you are able to claim for the 1st week is about half of what I would earn. Really pisses me off that I am going to lose money because of this, How is this fair?
Can I actually claim what I will actually lose or is it capped at £60 a day for the 1st week?
I'm not convinced it is all as random as they make out- LOADS of my wife's colleagues (Local Council) and a mate's (Defence Estates) get called up compared to others in the private sector.jury members are picked ta random from the population
Cheers,
Jamie
I like how threads seem to evolve into a pseudo chinese whispers scenario despite all the history being there to see (not having a go at you merak, seen plenty of threads go like that)Edit; I've just seen you've lied to the courts. Bit daft that.
Haven't been called up yet, would quite like to see legal system in action from a none accused's point of view.
*BTW I haven't seen it from a accused's POV either**
**and don't want to
I was summonsed in February but wrote and got it postponed because I already had two overseas trips booked. Now I'm down for mid August and last week I telephoned to find out what were the chances of getting off, to be told my the snotty bloke at the Courts & Tribunals Service "no chance".
TBH although it's a pain in the wotsit I am quite looking frorward to it - if we ever get out of the waiting room and into a court room. I also agree that it is part of every citizen's duty to do it once in their life.
Really pisses me off that I am going to lose money because of this, How is this fair?
It's a civic obligation, a bit like a tax. You lose money when you pay taxes.
I've never understood why people who aren't self employed are desperate to get out of doing Jury Service, I'd love to do it but ice never had the letter!
When I think about it, I only know of two people who've ever been on Jury Service so my chances of getting the letter look pretty slim!
Are you suggesting a bias towards government employees. do you not think the defence might find that a bit fishy and have grounds for an appeal? Could it just be confirmational bias, contributed to by the fact you know a lot of people in the public sector?I'm not convinced it is all as random as they make out- LOADS of my wife's colleagues (Local Council) and a mate's (Defence Estates) get called up compared to others in the private sector.
Cheers,
Jamie
Write a letter explaining that you have strong right wing/religous beliefs...
Dad has done it twice (works in private sector)
Stepmum has never done it (recently retired from local council job)
I've not been asked yet, but Ill not be trying to get out of it.
This is the scary bit for me. Mrs J did 10 days last year. She was scared by the general level of ignorance and inability to understand some fairly basic facts about the case by a significant proportion of the jury.
Those people are even allowed to vote.
Those people are even allowed to vote.
Quite!
Did it a few years back at Cupar, waiting area was in the public benches,
sat and watched the Sherif refuse bail to a few people, saw the accused for the case we were in for, didn't get picked, went up to the ice cream shop and then went home. Not bad for a day's work.
Would be a bit of a bastard if you got a long case at a High or Crown court though.
Personally I'd jump at the chance; I imagine it'd be a fascinating experience (until the novelty wore off, anyway). But I don't really understand it being mandatory and seemingly so keenly enforced. If someone doesn't want to do it, why can't they opt out? It's not like we're particularly short on people.
Send them a photo of you on the beach with a mimosa and today's paper 🙂
My only concern is getting stuck in a six month case but the bloke said that was extremely unlikely.
I am self employed and lost a load of money when I had to do it for 10 days.
I really would not have minded as much if
a) They would have paid for me to use my car so if I was dismissed could get to my clients site afterwards.
b) The were a little bit more efficient in the way they organised things and didn't waste over 80% of the time I was there just waiting in the lounge.
Personally I'd jump at the chance; I imagine it'd be a fascinating experience (until the novelty wore off, anyway).
it is fascinating in the way this place is 😉
What is surprising is that some folk really dont get it or some pis simple rules or facts
It made me scared to face my peers on trial *tbh and like judge based trials more.
* i have never been tried to be clear
[i] She was scared by the general level of ignorance and inability to understand some fairly basic facts about the case by a significant proportion of the jury.[/i]
I was more worried by the "couldn't give a toss" attitude of the prosecution and defence. So obviously going through the motions for a mundane case, left us to make our own decision based on how we didn't like the look of the bloke.
In the end I gave up arguing that they hadn't proved anything - certainly not proved the bloke guilty. But as he looked like a wrong-un the rest of the jury decided he was guilty.
D0NK - Member
*BTW I haven't seen it from a accused's POV either**
**and don't want to
So either:
a) You're decent law abiding chap
or
b) You've just not been caught yet
😉
This is the scary bit for me. Mrs J did 10 days last year. She was scared by the general level of ignorance and inability to understand some fairly basic facts about the case by a significant proportion of the jury.I'd like consideration given to professional jurors - or at least a test which demonstrates a basic ability to concentrate for more than 5 minutes.
This.
Also the jury shouldn't see the trial live, but taped, with the 'Jury to disregard the last statement' bits removed.
Good news [s]I[/s] my friend has managed to get in touch and get the service deferred. Bit of a relief but still have all the good fun of the above described to look forward too!
It might not be so bad. My better half did a spell of jury service a few weeks ago. Every other day I'd get an email from her at about 12:30: "[i]He pleaded guilty (or whatever) and they've let us go until tomorrow with a fiver for lunch, I'm off out to the trails, bye[/i]"...
For those who would relish the chance, be careful what you wish for. I was looking forward to it, doing my civic duty and all that, just hoping that when I did get a case it wasn't going to be anything too unpleasant or upsetting.
So, into the court we trooped, sworn in and let's see what the charges are gonna be....
Three counts of sexual assault on a child under the age of thirteen.
Not the most fun week I've ever had.
Just pray you don't get stuck on some complex fraud case. Can literally last a year or more.
Cheers
Danny B
Just pray you don't get stuck on some complex fraud case. Can literally last a year or more.
As I understand it, if they expect the case to be a long one, they speak to prospective jurors and excuse people for whom that would be a problem. Basically, if you're up for a complex fraud, expect to face a jury of pensioners.
I got it deferred then was called 6 months later. I found it boring as hell as you sit around half time waiting.
I've never really understood the aversion a lot of people have to doing jury service.
I loved it (even though the prosecution were dicks and the whole case was a shambles, and the food was gruesome, and it hasn't occured to Glasgow Sherrif Court that if your going to keep 60 people waiting around for half a day you could put them in a room with some chairs) but.... I'm self employed and sometimes I can make a third or even a half of my annual turnover in just two weeks of the year. I can't predict when those two weeks will come, sometimes I might get a weeks notice. But if i was committed to jury service and the annual big piece of work passed my by it would bankrupt me. So its a nervy business, even just having to have your phone switched off for half a day is a worry.
I've got a proper, genuine, might even be good, idea!
The age of retirement is going up. How about an option (or even a compunction) to retire a little bit earlier than the new age but serve as a juror on your new pension income for a good period of time before going into retirement proper. A sort of right of passage into your retirement.
I'd have no issue with being "judged" by my elders, it could even be a nice way to reintroduce the concept of respect for the "wisdom" of the elder members of society.
It would also have the spin off that those of us in paid work would not have our lives royally naused up if we got called up.
I work in a prison, I'd love to do it. After 10 years of working with prisoners I reckon I'd know just by looking at them if they were guilty or not! 😉
Convert, in theory that's quite a good idea. As long as the jury aren't all suffering from Alzheimers.
Get a criminal record,
You don't have or do jury service if you are a criminal I believe
Get a criminal record,You don't have or do jury service if you are a criminal I believe
If you can't think of something to get caught for, try getting caught lying to get out of jury service, that way the punishment (not being able to do jury service) fits the crime (not doing jury service). Poetic Justice. 🙂
It's probably quite difficult to get a criminal record nowadays, isn't it?
It's probably quite difficult to get a criminal record nowadays, isn't it?
dunno - some people have managed just by making a stupid tweet or farcebook post.
Get a criminal record,You don't have or do jury service if you are a criminal I believe
Only if you've been in prison in the last 10 years, i thought?
Getting yourself in the dock to avoid being on the jury seems like a good idea if you *really* want to limit the amount of time you spend in the court room 😉
Is it worth cross referencing this thread against any of the Vodafone tax-dodging bastards threads?
I had a great week on jury duty, showed work the letter to say I would be off all week. Turned up on Monday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again until Wed so spent Tuesday on the bike. Turned up on Wednesday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again so spent rest of the week on the bike. Awesomez.
the jury shouldn't see the trial live, but taped, with the 'Jury to disregard the last statement' bits removed.
If you wanted to judge someone's credibility, would you rather see them in person or watch a videotape of them?
(There's really not a lot of "disregard that last statement" stuff apart from telly).
I had a great week on jury duty, showed work the letter to say I would be off all week. Turned up on Monday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again until Wed so spent Tuesday on the bike. Turned up on Wednesday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again so spent rest of the week on the bike. Awesomez.
+1
Curiously familiar 😉
Hoping that I'll have the same experience of jusry duty as messiah and rocketman in a couple of weeks.
I had a great week on jury duty, showed work the letter to say I would be off all week. Turned up on Monday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again until Wed so spent Tuesday on the bike. Turned up on Wednesday morning and sent home at 11am; went out on bike. Phoned that evening to find not required again so spent rest of the week on the bike. Awesomez.+1
Curiously familiar
+2
Been twice in the last 3 years, so so much for being picked at random, didn't have to do the second one but enjoyed the first one so much I really didn't mind.. Think I only had 4 days in court in the 4 weeks, and got a fair chunk of loss of earnings back too seeing as I couldn't go into work..
kinda666 - Been twice in the last 3 years, so so much for being picked at random,
Do you need some help understanding the concept of random?
Getting called for jury service is not the same as picked though? My dad used to always jest that the prosecution would select primary school teachers and reject social workers / the defence the opposite..
So if you swan about all week, are the jurors paying (for loss of earnings)? their employers? or the state..?
Was selected a couple of times, but was either in Japan, or about to be re-posted there.
I just saw the solution on my Twitter timeline!
Sarah Knapton @sarahknapton
[i]Judge forced to discharge Old Baily murder trial jury after woman complained fellow juror smelt so bad she couldn't concentrate on evidence[/i]
she can't spell Bailey but other than that it's credible.
we don't actually select jurors in the uk like that - its a myth from US TV/film. It is very difficult to influence the composition of the jury unless there is a very good reason.kcal - Member
Getting called for jury service is not the same as picked though? My dad used to always jest that the prosecution would select primary school teachers and reject social workers / the defence the opposite..
if required to attend you get a limited loss of earnings. some employers top this back up to the full pay level. if sent home within 4 hours you get less than if kept all day. If you get told in advance you are not required tomorrow you get nothing - some people might screw their employer over by not going to work and still expecting paid.So if you swan about all week, are the jurors paying (for loss of earnings)? their employers? or the state..?