[Closed] Joy Division....why such acclaim?

I feel the same about Pink Floyd. No one else seems to agree with me though.

Joy division were another one of those bands that were so appalling and dull that only the supercool could tolerate them, as we all know, the supercool will tolerate almost anything in a bid to improve their (justifiably) low self esteem..

very similar to The Smiths and The Cure in that respect

I feel the same about Pink Floyd. No one else seems to agree with me though.

I do. Pretentious, self-indulgent noodling.

Joy Division and The Smiths were great though.

I like Joy Division but love New Order. Ceremony IMO is the most haunting song I have ever heard. I am though very insecure but equally supercool.

I'm not even remotely cool and I ****ing love Joy Division! Its just the kind of angry angt-ridden miserablism you should be listening too as a yoot. Admittidly I should probably have grown out of by now.

Derek.... I saw the Chameleons last December. They still gig occasionally. They were awesome!!!

Raw honesty. Mostly appreciated by those in touch with a modicum of their own emotional intelligence.

Is it because they are not New Order?

Here here Binners. Ian Curtis properly gets inside your head.

I am with binners...angry angsty and stylish . 100% original.

The chameleons are ****ing awesome too but have done more shit stuff

I recall as a teenage punk/goth of the late 70's / early 80's, they were a band very much for the cool Uni student of that period, I don't recall any kids at school or around town being into them.

I discovered them years later and really like most of it. I assumed their more recent deity status being down to a combo of dark mysterious troubled lead singer meets early death, Factory Records troubled history, Hacienda connections, cool film prompting lots of people to bend the truth about being really into them back in the day, when in fact they weren't that big a band at the time.

I loved them at the time and love them now I even have the oven gloves. I was the least cool kid at school and at poly. I'm not sure you tube is the way to appreciate them though better on a c 90 cassette played on a cheap gehetto blaster.

why such acclaim

their long term influence on music

Agree with the sentiment on Ceremony - proper tune.

As a massive New Order Fan, I didnt get Joy Division at 1st but its that kind of music that grows and grows I love em now. Like Binners says he gets in your head.

All about originality. Like the Chameleons weren't.

There are leaders and there are followers - some people prefer the followers.

Most Joy Division stuff does sound really dated now though. To be expected I suppose.

Also, there's a real emotional undercurrent in JD's music - from every instrument. I still feel tearful when I her 'Atmosphere' as it was the first song I heard when John Peel died. I mean the guitar in Dead Souls and New Dawn Fades. If you don't get it, you don't get it!

All about originality. Like the Chameleons weren't.

The Chameleons were before the Smiths and EATBM, think they even produced their first album

I listened to JP all the time around the Chameleons era and they were just another band to me, ok songs, but nothing special.

I would have thought both the Cure and Smiths weere pretty original too.

and a b side

So, we're that bereft of culture that, as long as something has a bit of originality, or angst (emotional intelligence in woppits rather optimistic vocabulary), or (his holy reverence) john peel told us to listen to it, then whether it's any good or not is immaterial?

There are leaders and there are followers - some people prefer the followers.

No, [url= http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movement.html ]there are no leaders without followers[/url]

Lyrically poor?
Tell us a which songs you admire the lyrics to, just so we have a valid point of comparison.
IC came up with some of the most brutally honest lyrics I can think of.
Silly sod was a bit of a genius that way.

I'm 44 as well, they've been part of my musical life since I was 11.
The sparse arrangements were unusual at the time, with the bass playing what would normally be the guitar parts.
It all works though.

I don't believe in good or bad music. But I think JD's music is so emotionally charged I find it difficult to believe that it could fail to gain a reaction in anyone who has actually bothered to listen.

[i]No, there are no leaders without followersNo, there are no leaders without followers[/i]

What? Is that some kind of spam? Freak.

[i]something has a bit of originality, or angst[/i]

...and with both. Great!

(Jeez, I can't believe I'm discussing the merits of Joy Division in 2013. I'm not even sure if they are on my iPod)

Liking Joy Division makes you bereft of culture? Sorry Yunki, but as far as popular culture goes, I think Ian Curtis is a pretty high watermark. I can't think of many others who can express such raw emotion so poetically and honestly.

The sparse arrangements were unusual at the time, with the bass playing what would normally be the guitar parts.
It all works though.

wall of sound production ?

One song played 50000 times, thats how I see JD.

Well said.
Billy Bragg and Mozzer are the only other songwriters that occassionally embarass me with their honesty.

Martin Hannett was a genius of a producer as well, let's not forget.

I'm only trolling, the whole navel gazing genre utterly passed me by

[i]One song played 50000 times, thats how I see JD[/i]

They all sound the same?? 😆 That's what my dad used to say about punk.

And if we're posting our favourite joy division videos... 🙂

All about originality. Like the Chameleons weren't.

I really struggle with this. I followed the Chameleons when they were fresh out and I can't for the life of me think who they were ripping off? Their guitar sound was a real breath of fresh air at the time.

[edit] I didn't get the Chameleons... and the OP doesn't get Joy Division. Takes all sorts eh?

I like Joy Division but love New Order. Ceremony IMO is the most haunting song I have ever heard.

Ceremony is a Joy Division song!

Awesome, loved them as a teenager, still love them.

Different people like different music shocker!

Like what you like, enjoy it, don't worry about what other people like, unless you have to live with them and share a stereo.

What I find a bit odd is that there seems to be a cultural pressure to either like or dislike a band or genre as a whole. I like lots of bands, but I'm struggling to think of any where there aren't some songs that I don't like. There's also plenty of bands that I'm not really a 'fan' of, but I like something(s) they've done.

Understandable when you're a teenager maybe, when the music you listen to can be part of how you define yourself as a person, putting the band's logo on your school bag, wearing the t-shirt and all that, or being part of a "scene" but surely by the time you've reached the middle-aged Audi driving phase of life, the pressure's lifted and you can like whatever sounds good in your ears?

[i]you can like whatever sounds good in your ears[/i]

Now there's a novel idea! 🙂

Atmosphere.

/end thread./

Pfft! Madness. Where will that get us. Before you know it I'll no longer be allowed to judge people on their musical tastes, which clearly aren't in my league, then treat them with utter sneering contempt as a direct result?

My particular favourite of theirs, along with "Love Will Tear Us Apart" of course. The latter is full of raw emotion and, based on his own situation, makes it all the more poignant.

Iz it coz they iz Norvern?

😉

I personally think Love Will Tear Us Apart is one of their worst. I'm bonkers, me!

As an album opener, I think Disorder takes some beating.

I was very disappointed/horrified/****ed off to discover, the other week, that this exists...

I love Therapy?'s cover of Isolation, NIN covered Dead Souls too, anyone know of any other quality covers?

Love Joy Division. Was into New Order first and liked their darker stuff and worked back from that.

I wonder whether the OP is basing his opinion on live recordings which were extraordinary in their own right, but I can fully appreciate that they are firmly in the "you had to be there" category for some folk.

I don't think they sound dated at all - there are several bands I can think of at the moment who owe a massive debt to JD.

These Days is one of my favourites...that sparse drum sound and production was well ahead of it's time.

Am I allowed to like both JD and The Chams ?

Delighted to find a Chams concert I was at in the 80s is on youtube ! Never saw JD, though saw NO about 20 times.

I used to know the drummer from the chameleons, John, in the mid 90's. He was a taxi driver then though. But I prefer JD musically.

If I have to explain it to you, you'll never understand.

anyone know of any other quality covers?

Low's cover of Transmission and Galaxie 500's of Ceremony are both great.

Pfft! Madness

CBA

anyone know of any other quality covers?

Heresy, burn all the nay sayers.

JD were a game changer, like a number of other bands they expanded the musical landscape.

(jeezus that sounds like pretentious shite but hey, it's true) 😀

I loved them at the time and love them now I even have the oven gloves.

I got a pair of JDOGs at all night garage.

Along with 10 KitKats, a jar of Marmite, a blues CD on the Hallmark label and a motoring atlas.

Absolutely with edlong on this. I'm continually astounded by people who say The Beatles/Pink Floyd/Joy Division, et al, are rubbish, when it's perfectly clear to anyone who can actually understand what music is, that the opposite it true. Bands/musicians do not sell tens of millions of records all over the world, in all sorts of different cultures, if they're rubbish. Fair enough, not actually liking something, there are loads of bands around I just don't 'get', mainly because of some quality in the vocals, like the singer with Everything Everything. That sort of falsetto yodel thing he does makes me grind my teeth flat, but they are very popular, so I'm not going to get all h8ter on their ass!
It was years before I really 'got' The Smiths; shame, really, I missed seeing them when they played Golddiggers in Chippenham. 😐
I really like Love Will Tear Us Apart, not because I've been told I ought to, but because I heard it on the radio and liked it.
There's plenty of stuff I love that I'm sure leave others cold, like Kate Bush, or Tori Amos. Or Pink Floyd, come to that.
I like them because I heard them and immediately got a connection with what I heard, not because some opinionated plonker in a music rag told me I needed to; I stopped reading NME around 1975/6, when the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons wrote reviews that said everything about their political leanings, and why you should/shouldn't like a band because they did/didn't fit their politics. Screw them, I can make my own mind up, thank you!
And continue to do so, thanks to 6Music, and Uncut Magazine, which gives brilliant reviews, and a great free sampler CD on the cover.

Rusty Spanner - Member
I got a pair of JDOGs at all night garage.

Along with 10 KitKats, a jar of Marmite, a blues CD on the Hallmark label and a motoring atlas.

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Nice shirt!

Are you anywhere near Bunners Chandlers in Montgomery, Count Zero?
Excellent shop.
I picked up some crucifixion nails, a Ben Sayers four iron and a painting by Mercy Rimmell.
I think it was called 'The Raging Ostler'.

I'd only popped in for a jar of Swarfega.

Or if you're anywhere near Chatteris.........

Aweshomze...

No, I'm in North Wilts, but funnily enough a very good friend of mine lives not far from Chatteris. 🙂
Still, she might as well be in Ely or St Ives... 😉

What's with the oven gloves? That's a new one on me!
I did have the original t-shirt in about 1980 (as you'd expect).

You've not got any JDOGs?
Big music fan like you n'all.

I keep wicket for the Quakers in mine.

No. They're from a song by that novelty indie band you like so much eh...

Radiohead-ceremony

The Chameleons and Joy Division - both awesome. Seriously good. I'm no cooler for getting it than people are who don't. That's differing tastes isn't it..?

Just watched Stephen Morris play live 10 minutes ago in the flesh and Love Will Tear Us Apart is still raising goosebumps.

I wasn't into Joy Division at the time - totally passed me by... Well they were not on Sesame St, The Million Dollar Man or The Muppets. Hence they escaped the four-year old me.

Dez, here's a song by them, one that suits you down to the ground:

Ah, now I remember why HMHB never interested me!

I only started listening to Joy Division a couple of years ago. Heard their name mentioned over and over for years, heard a couple of their songs (never knew who it was). Then I watched the film, Control. It took me years to get round to that movie, it was the last one in the pile, the one I really wasn't sure I'd want to watch, about a band I'd probably not like.

First thing I did after watching was got the album!

In theory they're awful. If you did some scientific analysis of their ill played music and bad singing I'm sure they'd come well below Rolf Harris and Chas and Dave. But you can't help but enjoy it. And I think it's just that under the somewhat rough surface you had a really talented bunch of guys who knew how to make good music collectively as a group. In areas where they lacked they more than made up for elsewhere.

Although, slightly offended by being referred to as a "purist". (Had to look it up)
[i]someone who believes in and follows very traditional rules or ideas in a subject[/i]

COMPLETELY and utterly WRONG!

Could be worse mate 😀

S'not like you've been captured by Barbary Corsairs....

[Hipster] I preferred Throbbing Gristle [/hipster]

Novelty, says it all, can't listen to too much JD, but love NO

The OP is some form of guerilla marketing campaign for some about to be released boxed set or something and I claim my £5.
FFS stop posting covers of JD songs there is no need.
As some journo(Paul Morley?) said when JD were all around.
"This band cry real tears"
Pretentious maybe but tragically portentious too.
+1 The Chameleons.

[i]S'not like you've been captured by Barbary Corsairs....[/i]

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