[Closed] Jogging for beginners help.

Just start out walking, then run slowly. At the end, walk the last 100m or so. You're using different bits when you run, so you will feel stiff.

8 miles is a long way for your first run. Normal advice for a moderately fit person would be to start with a couple of miles and build up from there. Walking/running is a good idea if you find you can't run for long periods, just slowly increase the time run and reduce the time walked.

Aches and stiffness are probably just DOMS, inevitable when you try a new form of exercise, and should be much less of a problem after you've done a couple of runs. Going straight out and doing 8 miles could cause problems though, definitely advisable to build up a bit more slowly, even if you feel fit enough from cycling your muscles joints and tendons may not be up to it straight away.

One foot in front of the other
Repeat

Hth

Do walk runs for a couple of miles build it up from there until you can run a couple of miles then start to add distance and speed.

Make sure you stretch properly, especially after the run. Makes such a difference the next day.

As pleaderwilliams said I'd of thought 8 miles is too far for a first time run seeing as running uses completely different muscles to biking and will therefore wreck your body. You need to get those muscles used to running before you push them too far especially joints like knees and hips I find. When i started out before christmas I was doing about 2 miles twice a week in the evenings after work and built the distance up and now do 5 miles two-three times a week with ease at a fair pace rather than slowing and doing a longer distance but thats because I prefer short and concentrating on pace to slogging for miles.

Download the couch to 5k plan from the NHS - the music is naff and you'll maybe find the first few weeks a bit easy (could always skip on a couple of weeks) It's a great way to ease you into it and you'll soon find you're running further and faster with ease. Coming from having done no running at all I did this plan a while back when family commitments meant I couldn't get out on the bike as much and this Easter ran a 1hr 40 half marathon. Added benefit, regular running [b]massively[/b] improves your bike fitness, strength and recovery times out on the bike are better than ever.

If you've never run before try using one of the c25k (couch to 5km) app on your phone. Worked for me.

Added benefit, regular running massively improves your bike fitness, strength and recovery times out on the bike are better than ever

I'd suggest that's dependent on how good you are at cycling. My experience was the opposite, but probably in part because I substituted some rides for runs. I can see if you're an occasional rider who suddenly gets a lot fitter through running that it will probably benefit.

I can see if you're an occasional rider who suddenly gets a lot fitter through running that it will probably benefit.

I would agree. On a side note I found not just the physical benefits but the mental ones. While training for a half marathon I found my "discomfort threshold" increased so I could push a bit harder for longer and just deal with the discomfort of hard breathing etc.

Tip number one: never ever call it "jogging".

Another vote for couch to 5K, seemed like slow going in the early weeks but I never suffered much after a run and it got me running a non-stop 5K which seemed unlikely based on my previous experience of running. Really enjoyed the discipline of running 3 times a week to achieve a goal and found it very relaxing experience compared to riding as it doesn't required as much thought.

Really need to start running again a couple of times a week to compensate a desk based job and a lack of riding time.

Thanks for all the jogging tips!

Will have a look at the 5k app, sounds like a good jogging idea. Will be nice to have something to work towards when I haven't time for a ride and a bit of jogging will fill the gap nicely.

Any tips on post jogging stretches etc?

Tip number one: never ever call it "jogging".

Thanks for all the jogging tips!

sounds like a good jogging idea

For stretches I use the ones from the Insanity training DVDs (just fast forward to the stretching bit). Will try to find a link for you

Look at couch to 5k programme. Feels easy aerobically the first few weeks but avoided me wrecking my joints like I used to do when I tried to run

I used to run before I cycled, 5k, 10k, half marathons, etc. Then due to injury got into cycling. Now I want to run again for same reasons as above, but every time I start I get injured and stop again. Always because I am too stupid to realise I have aerobic fitness from the cycling and no running muscles, and hence starting with a 25 minute 5k run is a recipe for disaster.

So after about half a dozen goes I've admitted defeat and I'm now in week 2 of a couch to 5k program. Last week was 3 sessions of 1 min run followed by 2 minute walks, and touch wood, pain free so far!

I'm an on off jogger, go for long periods of not bothering then one day I'll be out every night for several months. Basically, from scratch I always start on 2 milers with a very slow pace and build up from there (the max I can stomach is about six miles). Just build up gradually, I mostly do off road moors and trail, I find it marginally less tedious than pavement plodding and it's less impact on your limbs.
I never do any stretches, I just start off walking briskly and then break into a jog when I'm warmed (not recommending that BTW). I usually have a good long drink before going out, if I go out on a 6 miler I'll take a post jog supplement drink to aid muscle recovery and stop me feeling fatigued the next day, i never take a drink with me cos I don't like carrying anything.

For stretching I recommend this book...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stretching-Bob-Anderson/dp/0936070226/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1

If you want, I could scan and send a few pages for you.

Any tips on post jogging stretches etc?

Dont bother stretching either before or after instead start your jogging very slowly then reduce your speed as you near the end of your jog even walking the last few hundred metres

...you can miss out stretching before but I find stretching after makes a big difference to my 45 year old muscles.

I can run 6 miles without training. Cool.

Result = risk of damaging or tearing up something. = no running for months or again.

Take it slow. 30 seconds jog with 1 min walk for a total of 10 mins and build up slowly as joints take a lot longer to adapt than your aerobic system.

Ease into it like others have said. Mile or two, intermittent walking/running. Build up slowly, ignore people who say you'll need to have a professional shoe fitting or you'll die, but at the same time, don't wear wellies or flip flops.

Also, it's pronounced [i]yogging[/i].

I am a casual jogger - do 5 to 7 mile loops. Don't like it but been doing it for a long time.

1. Don't jog slowly to warm up, either walk or run/jog quickly. Jogging slowly just makes the impacts more and you will get more injuries.

2. Stretching before works better for injury prevention I reckon - maybe stretch afterwards but I don't find it anywhere near as important.

3. Try fartlek running instead. It's a bit more painful but the sprints are more fun and useful.

It is easy to just jog junk miles which don't do you much good - I am very guilty of that. It is almost the lazy option - you know you need to do something so you churn out a 7 miles jog thinking it stands for something, when in reality all it has done is maybe lose a bit of weight.

A shorter but quicker run would do you a lot more good.

I found hill climbing on the bike at a spinnyish cadence very good for strengthing up around my knees, and then the jogging/running was much more effective as I was more 'bouncy'.

Stretching before works better for injury prevention I reckon

There is no evidence that stretching has any benefit for either injury prevention or recovery. If you have any evidence I would be interested in seeing it.

I wonder why our club coach has us stretching after training sessions?

ask him

There is no evidence that stretching has any benefit for either injury prevention or recovery. If you have any evidence I would be interested in seeing it.

You didnt specify peer reviewed, so anecdotally if I dont stretch during a warm up then my the second or third mile my legs and back are completely ruined.

The only study i read about stretching before/after was about weightlifting which made the valid (i think) point that if you want to find your 1 rep max then you're well within your range of motion and all a warmup/stretch does is tire your muscles. So for strength training, stretch afterwards.

Running OTOH is nothing to do with maximum strength and a lot to do with having a good range of motion. So stretching during a warmup makes sense?

So stretching during a warmup makes sense?

Stretching and warming up are different things. muscles dont stretch and they are often adhered to bone along their length which makes it impossible.

For me, I have to stretch my calves out after a run or I can't walk the next day. Stand on a step and drop my heels down and give em a good old stretch

Stretching and warming up are different things. muscles dont stretch and they are often adhered to bone along their length which makes it impossible.

The mechanism for stretching a muscle out over the long term was to 'stretch' regularly but the actual growth comes from a mix of the micro tearing of the muscles at full extension (because you're working them through a longer range of motion after stretching) and the repair ocouring in a elongated/relaxed muscle rather than a tight one.

*i did my masters thesis on aplying power meters to ice hockey sticks hecne why i read loads of sports research journals for a chemical engineer!

The intro to the paper* talked about stretching being more for your brain/nerves than the muscles,

I'm not interested in the paper and I am not going to read it.
Do muscles "stretch" if you go through a (usually habitual and ill thought out routine borne out of observation and habit) pre or post run "stretching routine? Its a yes or no answer?

If they do does this provide any benefit?

I think non anecdotal answers would be best

There's no firm evidence for stretching, it's true. But equally there's no firm evidence against it (at least post-run), and anecdotally incorporating a regular, decent stretching routine into my training has sorted out an ITB problem, and tendonitis in a different leg. So I'm going to carry on stretching after my runs, and would certainly recommend it to anyone.

muscles dont stretch and they are often adhered to bone along their length which makes it impossible.

adhered along their length and so impossible to stretch doesn't sound right unless I'm missing something. how would such a muscle contract to cause movement?

and anecdotally incorporating a regular, decent stretching routine into my training has sorted out an ITB problem, and tendonitis in a different leg.

More likely the power of delusion and positive thought. After all there is no evidence this wasnt the case.

Anything I know about stretching comes from The Start Reality of Stretching by Jonathon Stark :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Stark-Reality-Stretching-Activities/dp/0968360718

The so-called stretch is just adjusting your muscles to be able to attain a position of maximum elongation, elongating the fibres but not 'stretching them' as such.

So the two options are :

1) your muscles can attain this maximum elongation whilst doing the activity

2) your muscles can't attain this maximum elongation during the activity

In the case of 2), then if you don't 'stretch' to get them to be able to attain this maximum range of motion before you start, then you will be undertaking the activity with only a part of your full range of movement.

And the proposition is that not having full range of motion, or having undue tension in some muscles because they are already partly contracted, can cause injury.

In my case I get pain around the knee - which a physio predicted after looking at my muscles and where they were 'tight' - if I don't do some basic stretches before the activity.

For instance two Wednesdays ago I didn't stretch, came back from ride with my left knee aching a fair amount.

this Wednesday I stretched a bit - only the slightest pain.

this weekend I stretch a fair bit more but rode much more, both days at a reasonable to fast pace, and no knee pain at all.

this is a repeatable story as I often forget to stretch, being a lazy slacker.

And it is a simple stretch - I just sit on my haunches for about 20 seconds, then raise for a few seconds, then relax back down into my haunches. A minute of this can get my butt about a cm or so close to the heels of my feet.

Maybe I am unusual - on a gym test of flexibility with a scale of 0-100 I scored -20. I seem to be able to cope with this though - it is only in bedroom where the lack of flexibility causes problems sometimes...

decent stretching routine into my training has sorted out an ITB problem,

The ITB is a good example of pointless stretching. It is adhered to the femur almost its whole length.

Anyway away from the stretch don’t stretch argument ... Surfer's personal favourite.

OP it's great that you are fit and can do 8 miles on a first run... But like others have said... don't get ahead of yourself and end up getting injured and then hating running.

I was much like yourself (cardiovascular system is strong enough but your legs might not be) when I started.... I choose not to risk it and kept to no more than 5 miles for a good few months and then slowly built it up from there... I feel that was a really good decision, after half a dozen years I've never, touch wood, had an injury.

Also check out your local running club.... cheap as chips and good fun.

And word of warning.... running is addictive... my bikes are gathering dust.

running is addictive.

no, it isn't...

🙂

every hour spent running is an hour I could have spent riding around the local common on the CX bike, which is 'much' more fun.

muscles dont stretch and they are often adhered to bone along their length which makes it impossible.

So how do they work? If they're stuck to bones they can't contract.

The ITB is a good example of pointless stretching. It is adhered to the femur almost its whole length.

No it isn't.

I think you will find it is. You can research this yourself if you want or I could provide sources. Its also not a muscle.

Surfer's personal favourite.

Not particularly it is just bad advice that keeps getting trotted out by people who like to give the impression that they are knowledgeable. I remember you rubbishing interval training recently as you were ill informed about that. That is another "personal favourite" of mine.

I think you will find it is. You can research this yourself if you want or I could provide sources. Its also not a muscle.

I know it's not a muscle. And it isn't attached to the femur.

Wiki:

The iliotibial tract or iliotibial band (also known as Maissiat's band or IT Band) is a longitudinal fibrous reinforcement of the fascia lata. The action of the ITB and its associated muscles is to extend, abduct, and laterally rotate the hip. In addition, the ITB contributes to lateral knee stabilization. [i]During knee extension the ITB moves anterior, while knee flexion moves the ITB posterior[/i]. It originates at the anterolateral iliac tubercle portion of the external lip of the iliac crest and inserts at the lateral condyle of the tibia at Gerdy's tubercle.

There are a whole load of other places online offering definitions, Wikipedia was just the first I found and could be bothered copying, and none of them state that it [i]is adhered to the femur almost its whole length[/i].

I'm not interested in the paper and I am not going to read it.

I think non anecdotal answers would be best

So if it's not peer reviewed, not written and not anecdotal, what kind of information would you like? I don't think it's going to make the next season of Panorama. Most of the google hits for it are to newspaper columns reading into the papers incorrectly. Lots of running journalists cite this one for some reason, probably because stretching is bad for running, here's why, makes good clickbait.

Anyway, here's a similar paper to the one I was citeing. Static* stretching's no good for your 1RM, but I'm sticking with my assertion that running is chuff all to do with your 1RM.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22692125

*the paper recommends you work the muscles through their range of motion though, it just records a dip of 5.5% in 1RM if you hold the stretch for more than 90s (and substantially less if under 45s, which is still a long stretch).

And of running in particular:

[i]Of the 23 articles examining the effects of an acute bout of stretching, 22 articles suggested that there was no benefit for the outcomes isometric force, isokinetic torque, or jumping height. There was 1 article that suggested improved running economy. Of 4 articles examining running speed, 1 suggested that stretching was beneficial, 1 suggested that it was detrimental, and 2 had equivocal results. Of the 9 studies examining the effects of regular stretching, 7 suggested that it was beneficial, and the 2 showing no effect examined only the performance test of running economy.[b] There were none that suggested that it was detrimental.[/b][/i]

So again, not good for strength, mixed results for running speed, and unanimous (apart from in running economy) on the benefits of regular stretching.

Is one problem with research on stretching that it focuses on performance, not how stiff you [i]feel[/i] the next day?

So if it's not peer reviewed, not written and not anecdotal,

I only asked for non anecdotal I didnt ask that they not be peer reviewed or "written". Not sure where you go that from. Also I am not sure what 1RM etc is.
I am not sure that article you reference is saying what you think it is saying. In summary their is little or no evidence to support stretching and some of the findings contradicted each other or had such a small number of participants to be useless from what I can see.

I know it's not a muscle. And it isn't attached to the femur.

“This layer of deep fascia completely ensheathed the thigh and was continuous with the strong lateral intermuscular septum, which was firmly anchored to the linea aspera of the femur.”

[url= https://www.painscience.com/articles/iliotibial-band-syndrome-stretch.php ]From here[/url]

“This layer of deep fascia completely ensheathed the thigh and was continuous with the strong lateral intermuscular septum, which was firmly anchored to the linea aspera of the femur.”

TIL, would seem that about most of the web pages I saw (including Wikipedia) are wrong. Although being attached doesn't imply it can't move.

Anyway, some studies do indicate stretching is a useful tool to get you back to sport: see 3.1 [url= http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jsm/2013/367169/ ]here[/url]. I'm certainly not going to stop stretching, ymmv.

So thats cleared that up then 🙂

Had a few shorter runs since starting off with brisk walks and things seem to be a little easier. Going to gradually build the distances up. Also thinking it's going to be a great way to find some new local trails that I could miss on the bike.

Mackem - Member
For stretching I recommend this book...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stretching-Bob-Anderson/dp/0936070226/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1

If you want, I could scan and send a few pages for you.

Thanks for the offer Mackem, very kind of you. I will see how I get on and if I'm still struggling I may well take you up on your offer.