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Warton - there is plenty of incidents of him losing his temper if you want to google it. However you will defend him to the hilt no matter what. Diving in on tackles when the red mist descends, arguing with referres.
AS for the punishing them for non football related incidents - "bringing the game in disrepute" It is perfectly possible for the FA to suspend a player for incidents off the pitch.
TJ, examples of both please, this is the fourth time i've asked. I've googled 'Joey Barton Loses temper' and can find NO other incidents over the last two years. do you have a different version of google?
Diving in on tackles when the red mist descends, arguing with referres.
Unfortunatly a part of the game that isn't dealt with across the board. Look at someone like scholes, its almost laughed at when he goes in studs flying, "oh its scholsy again mistiming a tackle".
oh its scholsy again mistiming a tackle
But he can't tackle so it is true.
Barton goes in with intent.
😉
I love TJs style of discussion. when he is asked to qualify his statements with facts he just ignores that area and starts another line of nonsense, its brilliant.
When you reach the top of your game, he'll block you completely with killfile, thus ignoring you completely. This I see as being a compliment of the highest order. Isn't that right Tandem?
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arguing with referres.
Is that actually a serious comment. He argues with referees? [slaps forehead]
But he can't tackle so it is true.Barton goes in with intent.
Well scholes has never gone into a tackle with the intent of winning the ball, I take it that's what you mean 😯
He loses his temper - yes thats right your reformed little lamb lost his temper. Ok so he didn't attempt to kill him. I suppose thats some progress.
Newcastle manager Alan Pardew has defended Joey Barton after the midfielder [b]furiously argued[/b] with referee Stuart Attwell during his side's 1-0 defeat to Aston Villa
To say he no longer loses his temper is simply wrong - even he does not say that in his interviews. He says he is trying to control his temper.
Is there anything the man [i]won't[/i] argue about? 😕
TJ, go for a ride.
😆
It's true though; the behaviour of some ManYoo players over the years hazzunt had nearly the condemnation that someone like Barton gets, yet is just as bad.
I suspect had Barton played for ManYoo that he woon't have received anywhere near the vitriol that he has, and instead be hailed as a 'troubled genius' or something. But take Wayne Rooney for just one example; a gifted player no question, but he's no angel, is he??
Like Ferdinand attacking Balotelli after the FA semi final, yet it was apparently "bad boy Ballotelli" up to his tricks again in the media.
Barton's problem though isn't just bad tackles and the odd fight on the pitch/training ground, it's his whole life that gas been littered with indiscretions in the past.
That, and he cries on Twitter like a baby.
Have you actually read his twitter page or just going off hearsay?
I am just having my first look at it, actually seems OK (for a violent braindead football thug).
[i]
"I really have to get off this subject as its consuming, with no right or wrong way to turn"[/i]
I have read his whinging as reported on the BBC site but not directly on Twitter. I am merely pointing out that using Twitter isn't the best way of making your opinion known to your employer and then using the same platform to then complain about the punishment...
Come on people, he's no Marlon King, is he?
and as I said before TJ, where is the offence in losing your temper? your original comment was "he should be in Jail" I'm, still at a loss to understand why he should be in Jail, because he argued with a referee?
Like Ferdinand attacking Balotelli after the FA semi final, yet it was apparently "bad boy Ballotelli" up to his tricks again in the media.
Pre-cisely. The ManYoo players are just as bad if not worse than most other teams, for winding up other players, diving, arguing with refs, bad tackles, arsey moaning git of a manager continually bringing the game into disrepute etc, but cos they are the best team in't league (there I've said it), they seem to get away with it an awful lot more than others...
Roy Keane [i]deliberately[/i] injured another player and effectively ended his career, thus affecting that player's ability to earn such high wages. One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen in football. Yet Keane gets lauded as a legend and enjoys a lot of respect within football. What he did was far, far worse than what Barton has ever done on a pitch.
Go figure...
mastiles_fanylion - MemberI have read his whinging as reported on the BBC site but not directly on Twitter. I am merely pointing out that using Twitter isn't the best way of making your opinion known to your employer and then using the same platform to then complain about the punishment...
Ahhh, so in the off season, when football journalists are desperately trying to create rumours and stories out of nothing, because there is no actual football to report on, and they desperately need to justify their existence. They lazily report snippets from twitter as being news worthy, and that's what your basing you opinion on.
Ahhh, so in the off season, when football journalists are desperately trying to create rumours and stories out of nothing, because there is no actual football to report on, and they desperately need to justify their existence. They lazily report snippets from twitter as being news worthy, and that's what your basing you opinion on.
Nailed it.
Well I am basing my opinion on what he said. The fact it was reported by journalists is irrelevant.
Actually you are basing your opinion on a subset of what he said, presented to you by journalists trying to create an angle on a story.
Really MSP, whatever. I can't actually be arsed anymore.
he has had an awful lot [ THIS IS TWO IS IT?] of chances given to him and no one in power in football has shown any significant disapproval and IMO that gives a message that his violence is acceptable.
On 1 July 2008 he was also given a four months suspended sentence after admitting assault occasioning actual bodily harm on former teammate Ousmane Dabo during a training ground dispute, on 1 May 2007.[7] This incident effectively ended his Manchester City career.[8] Three days after his release, he was charged with violent conduct by The FA for the assault on Dabo.[9]
Diving in on tackles when the red mist descends, arguing with referres.
Well I think we can all agree that this separates him from the majority of football players
To say he no longer loses his temper is simply wrong - even he does not say that in his interviews. He says he is trying to control his temper.
I am doing that in this thread with you ..FFS we all get angry sometimes and we all try to control this sometimes - Why is this a bad thing and how does it differentiate him from everyone but you and Ghandi?
You are correct over some incidents but given you literally find it impossible to criticiise a Liverpool player for any offence I find that rather amusing that you chose Man Uthe behaviour of some ManYoo players over the years hazzunt had nearly the condemnation that someone like Barton gets, yet is just as bad.
Roy Keane deliberately injured another player and effectively ended his career, thus affecting that player's ability to earn such high wages.
True now perhaps you would like to comment on the sportsmanship of Souness ?
Junkyard - its far more than two instances of violent behaviour. Just two times prosecuted.
Warton kept insisting he was reformed character and no longer lost his temper. I said this simply was not true. The fact that others do as well does not alter the fact he does still - and to a greater extent than many. Even he does not claim to no longer lose his temper.
During this debate I read an interview with him where he still was unable to accept the was wrong to beat up his team mate on a training ground. He thinks his actions were justifiable
.In court it was acknowledged that Dabo had surged towards Barton and shoved him first. Just as it was recognised that, while Barton emerged from the violent altercation unscathed, Dabo suffered severe facial injuries.He says: 'In my eyes he was the aggressor. He was the one who turned and came towards me and I was just fortunate in that I was able to defend myself better than he was.
'And where I'm from, if you throw one punch you're in for a penny, in for a pound. I can't just come up to you and throw one punch and then say, "Hang on a minute" when you punch me back. Which was the way Ousmane wanted it. [b]I knew when he was coming towards me he wasn't coming to tickle me. We've obviously had words and I wasn't prepared to take the chance and I defended myself.[/b] In my opinion he was the aggressor. Ousmane is not an aggressive lad, but he was the aggressor that day and it's a deep regret of mine that I didn't stick with the "not guilty" plea.'
He admits to 'going overboard' in the way he defended himself, says it's the way he was built, the way he was raised and something he now has to deconstruct. 'It's a work in progress,' he says
Now that is not the statement of a changed man.
He may be working on his demons, however it is clear they still dog him.
Warton - I have moderated my position from my first post as yuo can see if yo bother to read what I said
Junkyard - its far more than two instances of violent behaviour. Just two times prosecuted.
whilst I would just love to debate how bad he was in the past , no one is diputing this. We are debating whether he has reformed or whether he has not , or whether he should be sacked for his past acts [ you may have changed from that now for all I know]
a nice quote there TJ but ignoring this
He had 73 nights to go in what the cons still call Strangeways but he made a promise. No more drinking. No more fighting. No more pain for those closest to him to endure.
No more giving people reasons to rank him, in his words, alongside 'the anti-Christ, Chairman Mao and Hitler'.It is a promise, he admits with chilling sincerity, that he could yet struggle to keep. He cannot promise he will not commit violent crime again. He cannot be certain that the changes he has made to his life, even the horrors of prison, will enable him to conquer his demons.
But he hopes they do. He really does hope they do.
this
But it made me get my priorities right. You could have told me until you were blue in the face that I was on a road to destruction and the penny would not have dropped. Until, that is, I went to jail. I never thought I'd be there. I thought, "I'm too high profile, I've only had a fight, I haven't killed anyone". And then I remember sitting there, thinking "******* hell, I'm in jail.'
this
Pete [ Sporting chance clinic bod who helps him with anger management] used to say if I give people a rose, they only see the thorns. That's how it is going to be with me.
'I have been face down in the s**t, at the lowest ebb I can get to, the flag as low on the mast as it can go and I am fighting now to get it back up.
'Not by bending over backwards and trying to be the nicest guy in the world. People would say, "He's phoney". I will just try and be a better person. I already think I've come on leaps and bounds.
'I could have pissed my career up the wall. I remember sitting in the holding cell waiting to go into court and there is all this graffiti on the walls. I'm just reading it when I see this message left by someone. "I don't know why you are here, what you are here for but someone wants you to learn a lesson. Don't be a fool and don't put yourself in a position where you have to read this again to learn". It was like someone had put something in my way. Like a light had come on.'
A light that stayed on even when that prison cell door slammed shut.
He is also teetotal now due to AA involvement.
I am not sure what you want he has anger issues everyone knows this he is trying to adress them and he has had some major success in this - no arrests, no fights, no drinking but Yes still has a temper he fights to control.
I really think we should condemn him for his previous acts but praise him for his attempts to reform which seem to be , overall , quite successful.
I am quite surprised you dont want to give him another chance and rehabilitate him but will instead just bleat on about how he once lost his temper in 24 months - everyone has and so have many. many footballers. The fact the daily Mail was used to illuminate your view only adds to the rather odd scenario here. You not preaching reformation, rehabilitation and forgiveness and using the mail to defend your view with some selective quoting you could not make this up.
TJ, examples of both please, this is the fourth time i've asked. I've googled 'Joey Barton Loses temper' and can find NO other incidents over the last two years. do you have a different version of google?
If you look at the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Barton ]Wikipedia[/url] page for Barton and scroll down to the section covering the past two seasons you can find plenty of incidents that can be described as unsavoury.
It would be fascinating if he did turn up at Arsenal although I cannot see him turning them into winners.
It's like this TJ, I used to work as a plasterer, during that time if somebody had come up to me,sworn at me and shoved me, I would have punched him; I would also have ensured (if I was able) he was not going to get up and hit me back. It is the way us lower classes behave I am afraid. At no point, and I was from time to time in fights as a young un, did I see it as anything out of the ordinary,nor did anybody else,it is just life.
Sub training ground for Building site. Barton attempting to address this reaction to confrontation and recognising that he needs to walk away, and learning to do so,as even you can surely see he had done,is to be praised.
And as you are rugby supporter please don't call the Pederson incident an assault. I still train with a local club and I can think of a couple of fights/punches thrown already in pre-season.
duckman - I am not having that. What Barton did was not self defence by any stretch of the imagination - he beat a semi concious man into hospital. He continued to beat him while he was on the ground, he had to be dragged off him by teamamtes and he clearly still considers this to be a self defence and a normal reaction.
Thats the point he still considers he was right and its acceptable to beat an semi concious man while he lies defenseless on the ground. Now I accept he claims to be trying to change but in that interveiw which was only a few months ago he clearly states that what he did was right and aceptable. He wishes he ha dpleaded not guilty.
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in that interveiw which was only a few months ago he clearly states that what he did was right and aceptable
It's even in the part that you quoted.
He admits to 'going overboard' in the way he defended himself, says it's the way he was built, the way he was raised and something he now has to deconstruct. 'It's a work in progress,' he says
And where I'm from, if you throw one punch you're in for a penny, in for a pound. I can't just come up to you and throw one punch and then say, "Hang on a minute" when you punch me back. Which was the way Ousmane wanted it. I knew when he was coming towards me he wasn't coming to tickle me. We've obviously had words and I wasn't prepared to take the chance and I defended myself. In my opinion he was the aggressor. Ousmane is not an aggressive lad, but he was the aggressor that day and it's a[b] deep regret of mine that I didn't stick with the "not guilty" plea.'[/b]
That is not the reasoning of a changed man. He thinks what he did was right and that he was hard done by With that I will leave the thread. I don't know how you guys can keep defending this guy.
And where I'm from, if you throw one punch you're in for a penny, in for a pound. I can't just come up to you and throw one punch and then say, "Hang on a minute" when you punch me back. Which was the way Ousmane wanted it. I knew when he was coming towards me he wasn't coming to tickle me. We've obviously had words and I wasn't prepared to take the chance and I defended myself. In my opinion he was the aggressor. Ousmane is not an aggressive lad, but he was the aggressor that day and it's a [b]deep regret of mine that I didn't stick with the "not guilty" plea.[/b]'
Sounds fair enough to me.
Because the reasons for the fight starting are perfectly plausible and reflect real situations that many of us have encountered in life, don't confuse that with the extent of the damage he did which he does show regret for, and has taken actions to address.
No TJ he is saying a fight happened and he defended himself - and he accepts he went over the top.
How many people would defend themselves in a fight?
he also accepts he has to change again
I am out this is pointless you wont change your opinion but it will be fun reminding you of these quotes when you are being a bleeding heart liberal on rehabilitation in the future.
Junkyard - he hit a man from behind as he walked away, he continued to beat him as he lay stunned on the ground.
Its was not a fight - it was a brutal attack albeit with provocation.
he was not defending himself =- thats the point. He is justifying his actions by saying he was defending himself.
Now a reformed character would be accepting his guilt and apologising for his actions. Not attempting to justify them on spurious grounds
Edit - of course I believe in rehabilitation. My pint here is simple Warton and others claimed he was a reformed character. He is defence of his actions that day and his refusal to accept guilt, his actions since on the field show that while he may be trying to reform he is not there yet.
well done you sucked me in but my previous statement still stands
whilst I would just love to debate how bad he was in the past , no one is diputing this. We are debating whether he has reformed or whether he has not , or whether he should be sacked for his past acts [ you may have changed from that now for all I know]
What we are discussing is whether he has reformed, whether he has tried to reform , whether he should still be employed as a footballer.
[s]Discussing[/s] repeating this at elength will not add anything to this debate.
As does this
I am out this is pointless you wont change your opinion but it will be fun reminding you of these quotes when you are being a bleeding heart liberal on rehabilitation in the future.
He is no saint and wont win liberal of the year but he is trying to turn this around and he has committed no offences and not drunk for 2 years. You can condemn him for this, say he is going trough the motions, suggest he should not be employed because of the past if you wish but I would rather encourage his rehabilitation process.
You have helped addicts did it all go easily from the moment they quit or was it a rocky road to recovery. Changing the habits of a lifetime is not that easy and anyone who tries deserves some respect and encouragement IMHO - overall he seems to be doing quite well
Newcastle manager Alan Pardew has suggested that Joey Barton's Newcastle career is not over. Barton has been made available on a free transfer after criticising the club on social networking site Twitter, but Pardew said: "I've never closed the door on anyone and I'm not closing the door on Joey."
Joey Barton on Twitter "Does anybody have Isambard Kingdom Brunel's number?"
anything is better than going to Stoke.
Joey Barton on Twitter "Does anybody have Isambard Kingdom Brunel's number?"
My money is on him having a team of writers. As that is top drawer material.
My money is on him having a team of writers. As that is top drawer material.
I did think that reading some of his twitter stuff yesterday if he was getting help with it. Man U seem to have handled the twitter thing better than most clubs, its pretty clear that some of their players tweets are coming from the press office.
When I googled "joey barton twitter" yesterday, one of the first results was an article from a journalist, who had just interviewed him, saying how surprisingly intelligent he was.
Did make me wonder if part of his problems was that coming from the background he did, and going into a football academy, he missed out on a lot of education that he was capable of.
My pint here is simple
Can you get a pint of Simple? What does it taste like?
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I don't think it's available in pints, only metric amounts such as for example two hundred and fifty millilitres.
In't 'millilitres' a weird word to look at on screen/in print? Bit of a mouthful to say, an' all.
Elfinsafety - MemberCan you get a pint of Simple? What does it taste like?
Very very bitter, with a sour aftertaste......
Pint of simple to wash down the humble pie? Can't see it myself.
I remember seeing Newcastle score after being 4-0 down to Arsenal. Who went and picked the ball out of the net and told his teammates to "come on, we can do this" (or words to that effect)? And what did he think after the game? "We should have won 5-4" 🙂
I dunno, I suspect TeeJ's backed himself into a corner on this one and has now turned his back on us and started to talk out of his lower colon.
He's a typical scouser (and I say that as one), I'd be happy to see him at LFC, esp as Gerrard is gonna miss a fair bit of the season. He has that same combativeness and fireyness that typifies the best players from Liverpool, it's no accident that Gerrard and Rooney have that same attitude and spark. Barton just doesn't always channel it in the right way. But you can't doubt his commitment and quality. If he can keep a lid on and walk a tight line, as Rooney and Gerrard just manage to do, he would be an asset to any team in England.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14399073.stm ]putting yourself on the market may not be too wise at the moment[/url]