[Closed] Jimmy Carr controversy

You've not give a reason why it's an acceptable joke to perform in public.

Just moaned about those that find it offensive.

The problem is that a lot of people thought it was funny that he said that one of the positives of the holocaust was that Gypsies were murdered by the Nazis.

Now, to give Carr the massive benefit of the doubt we could say he was trying to highlight that today a lot of people think it is totally fine to be racist and prejudiced against Gypsies, and that they are racists, and yes he means you, all the people who laughed.

The problem is that clearly most people haven't got that message, they either agree that it is ok to be racist, or they think it's not and that Carr is a massive ****.

Carr might be smugly thinking he has fooled a lot of people, but the end result is he normalised racism towards gypsies.

(I did watch it to see what the fuss was about, some of it was clever and edgy comedy, I don't think that was the case with this particular "joke")

Surely the only way we can gauge whether or not it's OK is Rachel Riley's reaction... after all, she is the grand adjudicator in these matters and seems to make a pretty penny deciding what people can and cannot say

Frankie Boyle I'm sure has said much 'worse' stuff.

And lets not forget Borat on Gypsies...

Part of the problem is the joke is nowhere near funny enough to justify the offence caused. It is the kind of joke that went round the school playground in the '80s. Carr is funnier than that.

It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.

Frankie Boyle I’m sure has said much ‘worse’ stuff.

And lets not forget Borat on Gypsies…

Fastest whataboutery in STW history I think?

It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.

I think it's an experiment. Didn't he say just before it, "this is the joke that will get me cancelled" ?

You can tell jokes that involve the Holocaust and some of them are even funny. This one wasn’t particularly.

if I’m being generous, I’ll agree with @Nick up there, it’s about the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.

I wonder if it is just a gamble. He got a lot of publicity, no doubt driving more people to watch / pay. The closer he get to being shut down, the bigger the audience. Risk is he goes too far and losing big contracts like Channel 4. Maybe he is thinking he is coming to the end of his career so its like chucking everything on red, go big or go home type mentality.

His show is pretty wide ranging, definitely not for the easily offended and puts everyone in that uncomfortable space between comedy and unacceptable speech.

surprised there wasn't a thread already! Watched it last night, to see what the fuss was about (so I guess the guerrilla marketing worked then 😃). Not seen any of his stand-up but aware of his reputation as edge/offensive

TBH I thought it was pretty funny, and laughed at a lot of it. The stuff about anti-vaxxers especially was very good 😃 Yes, it's offensive, but he always has a little smile on his face and it doesn't come across in the same nasty way as someone like say Frankie Boyle. He's very self-deprecating as well!

The bit that everyone is complaining about, well he does call it a "career ender", and he precedes it by saying that he's probably going to get cancelled in the next few years (probably true, at least now 😃) so might as well "go out swinging".

You’ve not give a reason why it’s an acceptable joke to perform in public.

the vast majority of people who’ve taken such deep offence, a) haven’t watch it in full, so don’t have the benefit of context, b) had no interest in him whatsoever, until they found out of about in the media.

Its true that racism against gypsies is the most allowable form of racism

Been guilty of it myself in the past, but one of my sons best friends at school is a gypsie and hes a really nice kid, tough life to be born into when society looks down on you ( and as if school wasnt hard enough for teenagers looking for acceptance)

The joke has to be taken in context of the whole gig.

His stand up act is based on  trying to fine the most offensive joke he can to end his shows, its been the same act for almost 2 decades. With a build up the worst joke Jimmy can think of and explanations along the way. It's still a horrendous, abhorrent joke, but Jimmy says so during the show, claiming it's a potentially career ending joke. Should he have said it?Personally I think so. I don't think it's a funny joke and I don't think Jimmy thinks it's supposed to be funny, it's just a 'how far can I take it?' and if it's acceptable 'what the hell do I come up with for the next show??’ - doesn't make it any better, but that's the point of comedy, pushing the boundaries to show how f'd up humanity is. Sometimes only laughter will get you through.

His stand up is very different to his TV personality. But a bit like Frankie Boyle, could be it's time to remove it from the mainstream audience.

Maybe we are at a comedy change again like the old school mother in-law jokes dieing out - maybe the current crop of comedians will be relegated live audience only.

so I guess the guerrilla marketing worked then

Nailed it.

So it’s not really “in public” is it?

Yes, it is. Netflix is just as public as TV, radio, newspapers... the marketing wouldn't have worked if it hadn't been published and available to watch.

Tbh he’s been making holocaust jokes for years, always prefixed with ‘these are some of the worst (most offensive) jokes I know’ or he’s been asked what his most offensive jokes are.

Maybe he's trying to stay edgy rather than turning into a Macintyre type presenting some dull chat show?

I'm surprised that people are surprised - he's always been known for this type of comedy.

Also shows nothing changes, and the spirit of Roy Chubby Brown is alive and well. As is Chubby Brown too it seems - thought he'd popped-off years ago! 🙂

I didn't see it before all the hoohah, because I watched about 15 minutes of the show and just found it awkward and unfunny.

The joke in question has been done to death elsewhere by now, but I think the real question here is this: Should comedians' freedom to make bad-taste jokes still apply if the jokes aren't funny?

The thing I'm most amazed at with the media attention are some of the people who seem to be most offended by it. Some MP's who vote record is shameful etc....

His show had been seen by all the live audiences, fans, critics etc but the ‘news’ that he’s caused some offence only came out last week, 6 weeks after the show was readily viewable by almost anyone? That’s manufactured. I don’t know whether that’s by his team, or someone that wants to take him down.

I’m not a big fan of his work, but I’m happy to give Carr the benefit of the doubt on this one - the joke is very clearly poking fun at anyone whose instinct is to think of Jews and gypsies in different ways. He’s mocking us, and our ‘polite’ society, not any of the Holocaust victims - I don’t think he’s racist and I suspect much of the ‘outrage’ is from the very people he’s actually mocking who have been personally offended (but are pretending to be offended on another’s behalf).

1. People have the right to say offensive things, that's how free speech works.
2. Other people have the right to be offended and boycott the offensive person.

In general, Jews can make fun of Jews, Blacks can make fun of Blacks, etc. He should not be surprised that people find that joke extremely offensive. He's either very dim or his intention was to be offensive, so why is he complaining? He achieved what he set out to do, surely.

so why is he complaining?

He's not - other people are....

I didn’t see it before all the hoohah, because I watched about 15 minutes of the show and just found it awkward and unfunny.

Same here. I have seen it now though.

Is it offensive? Well, yes, but that's exactly the point. He literally explains before and after the joke that its offensive and why he is telling it.

The problem with material like this is gets replayed out of context to either legitimise knuckle draggers who ignore the wider point or gets used by the pearl clutchers who do they same but for their own reasons.

Also it wasn't actually very funny.

Question for both "sides" on here.

The Nazi's also killed many disabled people in their efforts to purify their "race."

If Carr had said that, "on a positive note they killed thousands of the disabled" would it still be funny/ ok/ not ok?

I’m not a big fan of his work, but I’m happy to give Carr the benefit of the doubt on this one – the joke is very clearly poking fun at anyone whose instinct is to think of Jews and gypsies in different ways. He’s mocking us, and our ‘polite’ society, not any of the Holocaust victims – I don’t think he’s racist and I suspect much of the ‘outrage’ is from the very people he’s actually mocking who have been personally offended (but are pretending to be offended on another’s behalf).

Interesting.

Have to confess, on hearing the joke I did laugh out loud. It was quite funny in a bad taste way.

Trouble is the rationale "I'm not a racist, but I'm going to show you how many of the audience are racists by seeing who laughs at this 'joke'" is really just racism isn't it.
And I suspect that while a lot of people are happy to rationalize this as clever comedy, too many racists will not be able to do the mental gymnastics to work that they are the butt of his 'joke'

Had that 'joke' been made about any other ethnicity or disadvantaged group murdered in the holocaust there wouldn't be any discussion that it was off limits......So it must be off-limits for Romani and Sinti too - mustn't it?

If we try and pretend it's not racism - however we dress that pretence up - we are complicit with the racists.

And I'm not sure that with current political climate we want to go there do we?

1. People have the right to say offensive things, that’s how free speech works.

so why is he complaining?

Yup what @poopscoop said

I tweeted one of Nad's grotesquely ironic screwups the other day (the minister for culture who wants to stop people being offensive on twitter has herself been pretty offensive! 🙂 ), in particular after appearing on HIGNFY and tweeting about seeing her daughter talking to Reginald D Hunter after the show, she included the charming #wheresmyshotgunman. Someone replied to mention a rape joke he'd done - I looked it up, it was from 2012, it was crude and it was nasty and I hope I'd be big enough to challenge it or walk out if I saw someone perform it today (of course I probably wouldn't, just moan about it on t'interweb afterwards).

Sad thing is, the thought occurs, I probably would have laughed at the time. I wouldn't laugh now.

I watched this when it came out 2 month ago or so. He opened the show by saying you’re going to hear some tasteless jokes about some controversial things, but remember doing those things is not Ok. Words to the effect. He’s known to crude in his live shows and often very.

The joke did make me cringe but what he was saying is that no one mentions because they were Gypsies, not that it’s Ok not to talk about them or joke about them. The context has been flipped to make it look like he was joking it’s Ok to do that.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If Carr had said that, “on a positive note they killed thousands of the disabled” would it still be funny/ ok/ not ok?</span>

Imo its the same joke..... We'd behaving the same discussion.

If you watch the whole clip he goes on to take the piss out of Jehovah witnesses - another semi-acceptable target to some people.

13500 calling for it to be pulled. Not sure netflix will even care about that little with their 220,000,000 subscribers who haven't expressed an opinion on the matter.

Have to confess, on hearing the joke I did laugh out loud.

Actually as jokes go I didnt even think it was that good, I've certainly heard far more outrageous. for sure it's nasty, but maybe its also an observation.

You’ve not give a reason why it’s an acceptable joke to perform in public.

Just moaned about those that find it offensive.

Because it's funny, it might not be to your taste, but the audience laugh (and groan) and it's not hate speech. There's nothing in the context of the act, or the joke that's hate speech.

I don't want to labour the point, but it's a joke in very poor taste, but lots of jokes are. Lots of humour is based on taboo subjects and JC is one of those Comics who is known for making jokes in very poor taste.

IMO if someone decides to watch a Stand-up act, by a Comic notorious for bad taste jokes that's advertised as "Jimmy Carr finds humour in the darkest of places in his stand-up special that features his dark, sardonic wit - and some jokes he calls "career enders".

Then, when that Comic gives a 'Trigger Warning' at the start that explains he's going to tell some jokes about terrible things that might have effected the audience or people they love, but reminds them that these are just jokes and not the "terrible things" (whilst mentioning Rape).

Then, watches for another 45 minutes, until that Comic mentioned the next 5 minutes is going to get worse, and they keep watching (past the first joke about the holocaust) but only then, decides that 1 joke out of the entire a act is obscene or worse still offensive, then really, I think they have to shoulder some of that blame themselves.

I don't think that's what happened though, like Dave Chappelle, a lot of people who aren't into that sort of humour, saw a clip, or just read about it and decided that it's mere existence was offensive to them and they knew better than Netflix or the BBFC and that it should banned, removed or struck from history and ideally Jimmy Carr made a pariah forever more.

What P-Jay said.

Imo its the same joke….. We’d behaving the same discussion.

Not quite. There was an edge to the joke because gypsies (or rather travellers) are generally held in low regard in UK society - and seen as a social nuisance due to an association with criminal and anti-social behaviour.

I assume that was supposed to be the payoff.

Anyway, I wonder if part of him wants to be "cancelled"? His heart didn't seem to really be in it and I found his delivery awkward and detached. He can afford to pack it in now, I'm sure.

Not quite

Genocide is genocide - there isn't a better or worse version.

What P-Jay said.

+1

Sad thing is, the thought occurs, I probably would have laughed at the time. I wouldn’t laugh now.

I count myself among that group - what is acceptable for humour changes as views and perceptions change and mature.

Without watching it, I can accept that his intention might have been to highlight differing attitudes to different races. Whether that would be wise and appropriate, let alone funny, is a different thing.

Regardless of the race/culture/creed/disability etc. is it acceptable to make a joke out of the systematic execution/eradication of people?
Why would it be acceptable to make a joke the holocaust?
Don't hear many Cambodia/Pol Pott, Burma, Balkan ethnic cleansing or African warlord jokes about the genocide that's being perpetrated all over the world - and is still going on.

As a side note I've seen Jimmy Carr live - I couldn't wait for his set to be over......

So to summarise

Some people think its funny the the Nazis killed a lot of Gypsies
Some people think its funny that there are people who think that Gypsies being killed by Nazis is funny
Some people think Jimmy Carr is ****

Some people think its funny the the Nazis killed a lot of Gypsies

If you can't tell the difference between a joke about genocide and genocide itself you really are going to struggle in this thread...

Perhaps it might be useful to have some reaction from a member of the Roma community to explain their perspective.
The quote below is from the guardian article explaining why the travelling community suggested that the tories response was a bit hypocritical.

So at least some people do regard it as hate speech, but whether it meets the legal threshold would need to be tested in court.

Personally, I have always thought he was a bit of an arse. Have I watched it? No. But the comments above from those that have really doesn’t inspire me to do so.

Rosa Cisneros, a member of the GRT community who researches Romani culture at Coventry University, said she was “sad but not surprised” by Carr’s joke.

“This situation has highlighted that anti-Gypsyism and Romaphobia still exists today. For me, it isn’t about censoring Jimmy Carr or being offended or me being part of the ‘woke’ brigade that I want to just cancel a show or infringe on someone’s freedom of speech and his rights. No, I am utterly horrified that we live in a space where such harmful and hateful speech is accepted and seen as a joke.”