Jeremy Corbyn

I've posted this before...

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..but it strikes me that rather than Labour chasing the million or so of the electorate that they [i]might[/i] poach from the Tories if they make their policies right-wing enough, they could go after some of the 20-odd Million that didn't vote for either Labour [i]or[/i] Tory at the last election.

If you actually think about it, Labour establishing the Scottish parliament was Labours downfall in Scotland(ignoring policy and politics for a moment), as it allowed the SNP to gain power at Holyrood, firstly as a minority and then as a majority, and which ultimately lead to confidence in the SNP that they could be a different voice to represent Scotland other than Labour.

That can't be true as George Robertson told us that ""Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead" .

🙂

I've posted this before...

Yes I think you have......several times 😉

But there is something else your graph shows apart from the growth of the 'did not vote' which is interesting, and rather poignant at this particular time.

Much in being made in the media and by the blairites at the moment about Labour "not going back to the eighties", the suggestion being electoral failure.

Yes Labour did do badly in 1983 as the result of the right-wing breaking away and forming a rival party to Labour which damaged Labour electorally - your graph shows how the SDP damaged Labour and helped the Tories (the Tory vote actually dropped in 1983)

But while 1983 is offered as an example of electoral failure is wasn't the worse result for one of the two main parties in recent history. That award goes to the Tories who in 2001 got less votes than Labour did under Michael Foot in 1983.

And yet when did you last hear talk of the Tory election disaster of 2001? It's never mentioned - despite the fact that the Tories received less votes than Labour ever has since the end of World war 2, as your graph shows.

William Hague's Tory Party was less popular with the British people than Michael Foot's Labour Party was.

And the Tories managed to that without the existence of a media-backed breakaway rival party.

I watched Corbyn speaking.

None of the PR trained positive head movements, none of the exaggerated hand pumping, none of the waffle and diversionary bullshit, none of the special authoritative voice stuff, basically no signs of having any of the nausea inducing professional liar and deceiver skills. He'll never get elected as leader by Labour.

Unfortunately.

seems to me that most of this noise that masquerades as debate is because there's been an inordinate amount of time between announcing the candidates and electing them, so the press have been having a pop because the torys don't do much in parliament

they could go after some of the 20-odd Million that didn't vote for either Labour or Tory at the last election.

It's not that simple though, you need to understand where the votes would matter rather than just increasing the winning share of the vote in a particular constituency. Labour and the Tories should have all this data already, well the Tories do, not so sure about the Labour parties intelligence unit capabilities. Hence, why the politicians focus a specific constituencies in the run up to the election.

None of the PR trained positive head movements, none of the exaggerated hand pumping, none of the waffle and diversionary bullshit, none of the special authoritative voice stuff, basically no signs of having any of the nausea inducing professional liar and deceiver skills.

I cant think of a single MP on any bench and certainly not cabinet/shadow cabinet that is that genuine

we are doomed to a continued cycle of plastic tony blair clones....

[i]What the rest of the UK needs is to be offered is likewise a perceived credible non-Tory alternative to Labour, and that alternative can similarly expect significant electoral success imo.

Create a credible Labour Party which connects with the people (a less likely scenario imo) and whole the game completely changes.[/i]

Agree, I think the key is a new Left party. Or a Labour party that is able to go through the pain of realising it's dabble with centre right politics has been disastrous, there are too many influential figures in the labour Party who probably aren't willing or able to do/see that.

seems to me that most of this noise that masquerades as debate is because there's been an inordinate amount of time between announcing the candidates and electing them, so the press have been having a pop because the torys don't do much in parliament

Indeed. Its an awful lot of time for everyone to effectively say nothing at all, for fear of scaring the horses. You could listen to anything the other 3 candidates have said, all the simpering meaningless platitudes, and just like Ed before them, you'd be none the wiser as to what any of them actually stand for.

Corbyn has come out and said "I believe in this, this and this!". And thats simply not the done thing. Saying what you believe in? In modern politics? Whatever next?

Of Course, the real turmoil for Labour is yet to come, with the EU referendum rearing its ugly head before long, Corbyn the other day was very non committal in his answer the other day (the other three were clear about staying in)

Of Course, the real turmoil for Labour is yet to come, with the EU referendum rearing its ugly head before long

Because of course the Tories aren't hopelessly divided between Europhiles and Eurosceptics** 🙄

** Or "bastards" as former Tory PM John Major famously called them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/major-says-three-in-cabinet-are-bastards-1486997.html

PMQ's. I've thought for some time that I'd like to see a leading debater on either front bench simply talk quietly in an ordinary conversational manner ignoring all the jeering and school-playground shouty nonsense, finding that the chamber becomes quiet because there's no other way of hearing what is being said, as the member speaking simply keeps quietly talking underneath all the noise.

I've a feeling Jeremy Corbyn could be that person.

PMQ's. I've thought for some time that I'd like to see a leading debater on either front bench simply talk quietly in an ordinary conversational manner ignoring all the jeering and school-playground shouty nonsense, finding that the chamber becomes quiet because there's no other way of hearing what is being said, as the member speaking simply keeps quietly talking underneath all the noise.

I've a feeling Jeremy Corbyn could be that person.

Did you not see Jezza lose the plot on channel 4 news under mild questioning last week?

He's getting a lot of coverage right now and the bloody media ar having it away with him which does beg the question do they think, (tinfoil conspiracy)being right wing b'stards, that by getting him elected it'll help keep the Tories in power forever? I seriously think they may have misjudged the mood, he's a serious guy, no doubt a conviction politician the like of which we haven't seen for a long time, lots more like him than they realise and this continual slamming the poor, disabled is going to eventually bite them in their collective butts.

Did you not see Jezza lose the plot on channel 4 news under mild questioning last week?

Must have missed that. I did see him put a Ch4 interviewer in his place, though.

The EU referendum might be Corbyn's path to power. Win the labour leadership. Perfectly possible. Then campaign for a no vote on Europe.

But if he were to win the Labour leadership, then declare himself an EU ‘Outer’ and campaign for ‘No'; and if the ‘No’ side were to triumph, a humiliated David Cameron would have to resign, and the country would bellow for change. An EU referendum is a long time in politics.

http://archbishopcranmer.com/jeremy-corbyns-path-to-power-is-more-plausible-than-people-think/

Did you not see Jezza lose the plot on channel 4 news under mild questioning last week?

I thought it made him look quite human actually, as opposed to a slick PR created political product. Although he could do well to curb his anger in front of cameras, even though I can understand that the Middle East and the plight of the Palestinian people is an emotive issue - it often makes me very angry too, specially when the media is so stacked in Israel's favour.

And I would dispute that it was "mild questioning", I thought it was quite aggressive. I would also dispute that he lost the plot - I thought he stuck to the plot quite well.

I also think Corbyn is the biggest danger to the continued rise of the SNP - if he gets elected leader.

While I would like to see Labour regain its purpose (and LibDems for that matter), the longer they are in disarray, the better.

[b]Bolli the builder[/b] said "And I would dispute that it was "mild questioning", I thought it was quite aggressive. I would also dispute that he lost the plot - I thought he stuck to the plot quite well."

And we agree again, that Forgethisnameon C4 has been trying to be the tough guy and failing ever since Paxman hung up his hat, I also thought it was refreshing, him and that absolute other nob end on C4 make me puke.

Well, it's not easy to accuse Blair of a lack of conviction, even from my uninformed position.

"He'll never get elected as leader by Labour.

Unfortunately."

The more of us - the general public, sign up to Labour to vote for him the more chance he has.
[b]There is still time to join up to vote for Corbyn.[/b]

Its the first time I have ever signed up to a political party. Worth every penny. I still have to decide who to vote for for the Deputy Leader position.

Which Deputy Leader are any of you voting for and why?

1983 - Labour manifesto - longest suicide note in history.

2015 Vote for Corbyn - biggest suicide vote in history.

irc - Member
...2015 Vote for Corbyn - biggest suicide vote in history.

If you look at that thick black line in scotroutes graph, I think you'll find that it might give a clue to where Labour's voters have gone.

If Corbyn gets elected leader, it may be the biggest political rescue in history, because at the moment Labour is doing that cliche - re-arranging the deckchairs while denying they are sinking.

Yes of course irc, because the Labour Party will thrive and grow under leadership of this woman

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I can see Scottish former Labour voters deserting the SNP on mass as they return to the warm embrace of a Labour party led by Liz Kendell. Once again they will feel that the Labour Party is the party which represents them.

In fact millions of former Labour voters throughout the country who can no longer be even arsed to vote will rush to enthusiastically support a party led by Liz Kendell, her connection with ordinary working people and persuasive debating skills is frankly quite staggering.

She will be the next Labour Prime Minister.

*rolls eyes*

I think pretty clear who the suicide candidate is.

History suggests that Labour should not panic - they will be back in power. The question is timing and that will be determined by whether they ask the right questions now or whether they get lost in this BS left versus right debate. Labour did not lose by being too "any wing". They lost because more of the Tory core turn out espcially the silver vote, the C1s don't buy Labour's message and the ability of the SNP to hoodwink they Scottich electorate (and the LDs gifting the SW to the Tories)

They did well among the young and the lower classes and the vote was pretty stable. The SNP mirage will evaporate when people see thought the anti-austerity (sic) message and the it's all the fault of the English narrative and they will recover in Scotland.

The last thing they should do is panic or have their equivalent of an IDS (an obvious non-leader) as their leader.

Of course, they are panicking and asking the wrong questions, so will probably lose 2020 as well. All a bit silly really but amusing political pantomime in the meantime

Jezza on Marr prog now

Thanks switched off when the deceitful one came on with his usual BS. Good to watch Jezza...

teamhurtmore - Member
Thanks switched off when the deceitful one came on with his usual BS...

I'm surprised Cameron was on the same programme. 🙂

The SNP mirage will evaporate when people see thought the anti-austerity (sic) message and the it's all the fault of the English narrative and they will recover in Scotland.

Seriously, can we have just one polital discussion without you diverting it towards your predictably boring SNP bashing? You've just about used all your typical bingo calls as well so you probably should give it a rest to keep things interesting.

Considering you live in Surrey you claim to know a lot about what is going on up here, the truth is you know bugger all and tbh you couldn't be more wrong. Labour have lost the fight up here as the Tories did before them, if they ever want to regain lost ground then they are going to have to fundamentally change.

squirrelking - Member
...Labour have lost the fight up here as the Tories did before them, if they ever want to regain lost ground then they are going to have to fundamentally change.

We stopped listening to the line being pushed in the media owned by the foreign billionaires and the PR trained monkeys jumping to do their political donors bidding.

Social media has enabled the spread of information much quicker and the exposure of the diet of lies we get in the media. Unless Labour wakes up to this and starts listening to their disaffected, they're done for.

Social media has enabled the spread of information much quicker and the exposure of the diet of lies we get in the media.

To be honest if the drivel of half truths, generalities and banal idealism that is passed off as political comment on my social media feeds is considered by the general populous as an accurate representation of the news and current thinking we are thoroughly screwed whatever.

Seriously, can we have just one polital discussion without you diverting it towards your predictably boring SNP bashing

Indeed, heaven forbid that the future of the LP should take Scotland into account. But take the point, criticism of the SNP is verboten. The masters of authoratitve rule and argument suppression.

the truth is you know bugger all

Spot on. And like Andrew Marr yesterday I am very keen to learn why the SNP are so reluctant to use their current fiscal powers or why they think cutting corporation tax suits their anti-austerity (sic) agenda. Among many "hiddens" obviously. So for those of us in ignorance it was a pity that the deceitful one chose not to answer a perfectly straight question yesterday. Plus ca change. Talk about bingo......

Labour have lost the fight up here as the Tories did before them, if they ever want to regain lost ground then they are going to have to fundamentally change.

Well that is the debate isn't it. You have set out your hypothesis and I have set out mine ie, no panic, once the SNP are subject to proper scrutiny and opposition, the mirage will crumble. Of course they will spin the opposite because it is in their interest to do so and make the LP look like a party in panic.

Back to Corbyn, he does an ok job at looking like not panicking but there is that combustible core that just needs a little prodding and then the angry man emerges quite quickly. It's up the the party to decide whether that is the characteristic of a leader and potential PM or not before the electorate do so.

Indeed, should make for interesting PMQ's as I'm sure Cameron's team will be carefully sifting through old files and videos to identify which buttons to press...

needs a little prodding and then the angry man emerges quite quickly.

Apparently... that's refreshing to see and plays well with the punters 😆

that combustible core that just needs a little prodding and then the angry man emerges quite quickly.

It was a good interview on Marr, came across as very genuine and reasonable.

Apparently... that's refreshing to see and plays well with the punters

indeed, just the sort of 'makes him come across as human and utterley sincere' qualities that Labour identified they needed in a leader last time round, rather than the cold hearted leadership type qualities that won them elections.

teamhurtmore - Member

the angry man emerges quite quickly

I didn't notice him getting angry on the Andrew Marr yesterday.

When you say quite quickly THM do you actually mean "not" very quickly, or he "once" got angry ?

I think he means "quite" (sic).

Well he seemed very slow to get angry yesterday.

Which is why I was asking.

the angry man emerges quite quickly

Any left leaning politician should be angry right now, tbh.

indeed, just the sort of 'makes him come across as human and utterley sincere' qualities that Labour identified they needed in a leader last time round, rather than the cold hearted leadership type qualities that won them elections.

It's hard to imagine what Tony Blair could get angry about. Certainly not injustice in the Middle East which is what triggered Corbyn.

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Labour have lost the fight up here as the Tories did before them, if they ever want to regain lost ground then they are going to have to fundamentally change.

The Scots were offered a credible alternative to a labour party that had complacently taken their votes for granted for decades. And just look how they embraced it. If voters in the so-called 'Northern Labour Heartlands' we re offered the same alternative, they'd embrace it with equal enthusiasm for the same reasons

The labour party in its present state simply cannot feasibly ever win another election. It has zero appeal t most people. Its a political irrelevence that has no idea what it is actually meant to represent any more.

But when I look at the candidates for the leadership, I don't think any of them even begins to grasp just how electorally ****ed they actually are. They're in complete denial. So how can they possibly hope to offer a serious credible proposition to the electorate within 5 years. Barring another global financial metdown or something monumental going wrong for the Tories (and I can't see it - not even with the referendum), Labour has already conceded the next election. Its already lost.

And you can forget Boris or Theresa. It'll be PM Osbourne. Jesus... what a thought!

Neither - he has held himself back rather well so far, maybe the party PR machine is working already. But it's fairly obvious from Marr and C4 that there is a combustible core and you can bet your bottom dollar that his opponents will be identifying and pushing the appropriate buttons. You know - labelling him incorrectly, misquoting him, manipulating facts, swerving - all the things that irritating people do on a regular basis esp in the Internet age.

It could be fun to watch - the political panto continues.

Fun distraction from the real world. Seems from the not-very-left-wing Guardian that he is doing even better than expected. Good for him.

If voters in the so-called 'Northern Labour Heartlands' we re offered the same alternative, they'd embrace it with equal enthusiasm for the same reasons

You mean the alternative to austerity and Trident replacement which saw the SNP sweep across Scotland in May ?

Well that alternative has an appeal in the 'London Labour Heartland' too.

Since becoming MP for Islington North Jeremy Corbyn has increased his majority by 5 times, and gone from 40% of the vote to 60% of the vote, making his seat one of the safest Labour seats in the UK.

Some people people claim he's a certain election loser btw.