Jeremy Corbyn

(one of which claimed Daesh was more like the International Army Hilary Benn referenced positively in his speech than the Labour Party !)

(Also, it was the International Brigades to which Benn referred, not International Army).

Jambyfacts dont heed to such trifling things as being actually true or accurate

If he did he would need to use another hand to count how many times he got things wrong and we cannot be having that now can we.

Quite something when the Green Party withdraw their supoort for an anti-war campaign group.

It hasn't. The Green Party is still affiliated to the Stop the War Coalition.

Corbyn supported fhe bail application of a fraudster who had been arrested for and was today convicted of defrauding 140 old age pensioners out £1m of their savings by posing as police officers. The matter came to light after [b]counter terrorism police[/b] traced suspicious flows of cash to one individual gang member who is known to have travelled to Syria.

So lets be quite clear here, Corbyn supported the bail application of someone using crimnal activity to fund terrorism. The BBC piece below doesn't say how it is Corbyn knew this individal sufficiently well to personally suport his bail application.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35065396 ]BBC News[/url]

Cast iron Jambafact ?

Neither fact nor jambafact, perhaps.

The terrorism suggestion was an assertion about a belief that detectives had about some payments. There were no terrorist finance charges brought and no suggestion that the fraudsters had actually known that one the payee was going to go to Syria and engage in terrorism. At the time of the bail application the applicant was innocent and the terrorism allegations hadn't been tested (or even aired, possibly). So actually there's nothing "quite clear" about what Jamba said at all.

As for the relationship between Corbyn and the defendant, just ask the Daily Mail:

Last night a Labour spokesman said Mr Corbyn had been approached by the constituent prior to the trial, and wrote a letter on his behalf as is standard for a constituency MP.

HOWEVER I actually agree with Jamba that it's an outrageous protocol no matter how common it is and MPs shouldn't be doing it unless they actually have personal knowledge of the bail applicant.

[quote=kimbers opined]Cast iron Jambafact ?

as in not at all supported by the facts Then its a resounding yes.

So lets be quite clear here, [s]Corbyn supported the bail application of someone using crimnal activity to fund terrorism. The BBC piece below doesn't say how it is Corbyn knew this individal sufficiently well to personally suport his bail application.[/s] i am just making shit up

FTFY

9/10 as even the DM disagrees with you

Good effort though.

For somebody who is rarely wrong on the internet jam is having a really shit few days this week.
Can we do Corbyn quoting Enver Hodger next to which the correct answers are 1 it was a joke 2 it was funny 3 it was even funny when Enver Hodger said it ...

I doubt Corbyn knew he was a fraudster at that point...

Jam are you actually campaigning against Corbyn via this thread?

Crankboy,

Jambalaya makes sense.

Yes, he is just one arguing against you lot the lefties but he is doing well IMO. Holding his ground.

Although you lot are very capable of articulating your views somehow somewhere something is just not right ... 😆

edit:

molgrips - Member

I doubt Corbyn knew he was a fraudster at that point...

Jam are you actually campaigning against Corbyn via this thread?

JC(not Jesus Christ) is just a half baked commie ... why not simply come out by saying he is a commie? Instead of pretending who he is not. JC(not Jesus Christ) should simply say "I am a commie and I am proud of it." At least be honest ... bear in mind I can see a commie miles away (I usually see them coming ...) coz my grandpa was a commie ... bloody womanising commie as well.

I think the correct question is are you lot campaigning FOR JC(not Jesus Christ) ... 😯 You know using all the "social media" interweb shite at every opportunity as a platform to influence?

chewkw - Member

Jambalaya makes sense.

I really can't think of a more damning indictment.

ernie_lynch - Member

chewkw - Member
Jambalaya makes sense.

I really can't think of a more damning indictment.

Ya, it's a bit like Pol Pot endorsing Mao innit. 😆

Very simple he presented his logic and you lot lefties presented your logic, I just think his logic make sense better to me rather then the lefties lot.

Logic that makes sense is one thing but view on entire mankind is another and I bet you lot know my view on mankind ... 😆 None come close.

I doubt Corbyn knew he was a fraudster at that point...

Jam are you actually campaigning against Corbyn via this thread?

But he knew he was arrested on suspision of committing fraud against pensioners - I mean as an MP if you are going to vouch for someone particularly on a case like this you must have a very good reason, or a relationship, or been lobbied ? I really don't know but you must have some reason.

I was just gobsmacked when I heard the piece.

@chew frankly with Corbyn its pretty easy to hold my ground, every day it seems there's another incident or revelation even more incredible than the last. I really couldn't make stuff up anyhting like as damning as this. This was a fraud and extortion ring taking money from pensioners and giving some at least some to a Jihadi going to fight in Syria.

. I really couldn't make stuff up

Its very good the way you do the thing you are saying you couldn't do

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12044641/Jeremy-Corbyn-writes-letter-pleading-for-fraudster-Mohamed-Dahir-to-be-freed-for-Christmas.html

I couldn't be sarcastic about this

Northwind - Member
I couldn't be sarcastic about this

Ya, I think you should try but make it a good one coz I am bored ... bored ... coz they are repeating Family Guy and American Dad ... FFS I want to see new episodes ... 🙄

@Jambalaya ... If that is the case I guess my view on mankind is rather accurate ... JC([b]not[/b] Jesus Christ). 😀

Since Jambalaya's vilification of of JC is counterbalanced by his spirited defence of Alistair Carmichael, I have decided to change my opinion of both based on the fact he has only been wrong 4 times and he will have friends in high places feeding him inside knowledge to pass on to the masses.

so Jeremy writes letter to magistrate saying he should be allowed to have bail because he's not a flight risk, and he turns up at court and is convicted. As he'll end up serving exactly the same time in prison with or without bail I don't see the issue.

There is a troubling agenda to Jam's selection and presentation of material the Terrorism connection is one the police rule out "an unconnected investigation" and one that was not made in the case no terrorism charges. The question as to why Corbyn was motivated to write the letter is clearly answered in the link he is the local MP AND knows the family.
The worst is the suggestion of misjudgement and " vouching " for the defendant . Corbyn wrote a letter for his Bail Application supporting that every accused has the right to bail see The Bail Act and the presumption of innocence . Bail can only be withheld if there are substantial grounds to believe the accused will run away offend on bail or interfere with a witness. So Corbyn wrote a letter in support of a friends sons fundamental rights before the law , his judgement has been entirely vindicated given the accused did not fun away offend or interfere with witnesses. What Corbyn did not do was in any way give character evidence to suggest that the accused could not be guilty.
Jam why are you so offended by the idea of an MP standing up for a constituent's fundamental rights?

There is a troubling agenda to Jam's selection and presentation of material the Terrorism connection is one the police rule out "an unconnected investigation" and one that was not made in the case no terrorism charges. The question as to why Corbyn was motivated to write the letter is clearly answered in the link he is the local MP AND knows the family.
The worst is the suggestion of misjudgement and " vouching " for the defendant . Corbyn wrote a letter for his Bail Application supporting that every accused has the right to bail see The Bail Act and the presumption of innocence . Bail can only be withheld if there are substantial grounds to believe the accused will run away offend on bail or interfere with a witness. So Corbyn wrote a letter in support of a friends sons fundamental rights before the law , his judgement has been entirely vindicated given the accused did not fun away offend or interfere with witnesses. What Corbyn did not do was in any way give character evidence to suggest that the accused could not be guilty.

Too many facts spoil the wrath.

Because he is attacking Corbyn, because Corbyn is one of the other side.

He thinks politics is some kind of game that has to be played and won, so he is joining in.

[quote=duckman opined]Since Jambalaya's vilification of of JC is counterbalanced by his spirited defence of Alistair Carmichael, I have decided to change my opinion of both based on the fact he has only been wrong 4 times and he will have friends in high places feeding him inside knowledge to pass on to the masses.

Its an interesting moral code that gets you to this stance.

Jam why are you so offended by the idea of an MP standing up for a constituent's fundamental rights?

he has only been wrong 4 times

Yep. He's been expressing his opinions on here since 2011 and as far as I'm concerned he has been wrong 4 times....all of 2011, all of 2012, all of 2013, and all of 2014. There's still a few days left to see if he makes all of 2015.

Edit.

But he knew he was arrested on suspision of committing fraud against pensioners - I mean as an MP if you are going to vouch for someone particularly on a case like this you must have a very good reason, or a relationship, or been lobbied ? I really don't know but you must have some reason.

You're not going to be supporting many bail applications for people who aren't accused of bad things! If they weren't accused of doing something awful they probably wouldn't need bail in the first place.

We know the reason Chewkw doesn't like socialists now, don't we.

Hate the player not the game, dude.

veedubba - Member
We know the reason Chewkw doesn't like socialists now, don't we.
Hate the player not the game, dude.

What? Please tell the reason. (apart from the one below)

IMO all the categorization about being socialists, communists, capitalists, imperialists, fascists, religious fascists or communists whatever shite all of them need culling including the people in them.

The world population really need to be reduced by half if possible to free up space and to let the earth rejuvenate ...

🙄

molgrips - Member
Because he is attacking Corbyn, because Corbyn is one of the other side.

He thinks politics is some kind of game that has to be played and won, so he is joining in.

Crikey, so much propaganda and counter propaganda to confuse people ... 😀

Keeping it in perspective - writing a letter for a constituent to support bail is not in the same ballpark as writing a letter for a serial fraudster to try and influence the sentence a court gave after conviction for an £80-'000 fraud.

Didn't do Nicola Sturgeon any harm though.

http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/deputy-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon.html

Old socialist womaniser grandpappy Chewkw failing you, that's what.

I tend to agree that there are too many people around for us to sustain our current global (/western) standards of living for too much longer. I'm agnostic when it comes to the culling though <wanders off to watch Utopia>

ps. I've been reading this thread for a while now, but I'm not getting drawn into the mire, so don't be offended if I don't reply to your reply.

I'm not reading all that guff, but I just thought I'd pop in and say what a great job I think he's doing.

I'll let you get back to it now, thanks.

veedubba - Member
Old socialist womaniser grandpappy Chewkw failing you, that's what.

Grandpa was a womaniser communist not socialist coz he loved to share women ... My aunts used to call him dirty old man ...

[img] ?oh=052bcc747dc344edf63e2cad1eb5ffa6&oe=571870C4[/img]

so Jeremy writes letter to magistrate saying he should be allowed to have bail because he's not a flight risk, and he turns up at court and is convicted. As he'll end up serving exactly the same time in prison with or without bail I don't see the issue.

Corbyn was told by a judge in another case where he was supporting bail applications (Stop the War related case) that he was attempting to "make violent criminals sound like peace protestors"

Yep. He's been expressing his opinions on here since 2011 and as far as I'm concerned he has been wrong 4 times....all of 2011, all of 2012, all of 2013, and all of 2014. There's still a few days left to see if he makes all of 2015.

Read your own link it answers your questions. Understand the issue he wrote about and you will see his judgement was proved right.

@crank of course I read the story and no the guy didn't skip bail but there is still a question of judgement in involving yourself at all with such a defendent

So you don't believe in the presumption of innocence and you would not stand up for someone's rights even if you knew they would honour the trust of the court.

Which was the stop the war case?

Fairly sure that he wasn't granted bail despite the (fairly standard from an MP) letter asking that the court consider bail. So a complete non story really. And as for questioning the 'judgment' of Corbyn; would you have him decide the chaps guilt or otherwise, with less facts than are available to a court, more quickly than a court? Sorry, I thought that was why we had courts. All he did was write a letter saying that he knew the family and they seemed like a good one (not disputed, even by the Torygraph) and that the court should probably consider bail within its legal framework. Which it did.

What would be the point of an MP writing a letter to the court, on behalf of anyone who comes through the door, asking the judge to consider bail, when the law already says that the judge has to consider bail?

"Dear judge, please uphold your oath by doing what the law says you have to do, and please only take into account those factors which the law says are relevant in the bail decision, without being influenced in any way by external pressures, such as letters from members of parliament asking you to grant bail. Yours sincerely, Jeremy Corbyn MP"

I would imagine it's the "I know the family, they seem nice" bit that is relevant. And reading the article, no one is disputing that the family [i]are[/i] nice. Unfortunately they seem to have spawned a bad egg/easily led egg/radicalised egg...

I do quite admire the indefatigability of one or two contributors to this thread. As the then MP for Glasgow Hillhead said to the Saddam Hussein lookalike.

The fact that the local MP knows the family and they are active in the community would be directly relevant to " community ties ' which is a factor the court is directed to consider particularly in relation to risk of failing to answer bail/attend for trial.

What would be the point of an MP writing a letter to the court, on behalf of anyone who comes through the door, asking the judge to consider bail, when the law already says that the judge has to consider bail?

Corbyn was told by a judge in another case where he was supporting bail applications (Stop the War related case) that he was attempting to "make violent criminals sound like peace protestors"

Why do you abuse quotation marks so?

You can throw rocks if you like

IMHO you are just trolling as no one can be this dense and loose with the facts whilst saying how god damn brilliant they are

Press all the buttons and get the responses.

Junkyard - lazarus

You can throw rocks if you like

Well no one can throw them like you do but when everyone is throwing them at you it might be time to reflect. It has become a badge of pride, rather than shame, that almost everyone on here is openly calling you a liar, your analytical skills risible and your "facts" BS.

Ya, almost everyone is throwing rocks at Jambalaya but they all missed the target ... 😀

On target - Junkyard 0 : 98 Jambalaya

IMHO [b]you are just trolling[/b] as no one can be this dense and loose with the facts whilst saying how god damn brilliant they are

(Tannoy) Junkyard is playing his trump card again!
Junkyard is playing his trump card again! (Tannoy) 😯

Press all the buttons and get the responses.

Me! Me! Me! I pressed! I want responses! I want! 😆

(it's like a ghost town here with no response you know ...)

@kona, story was in yesterday's Telegraph. They've been searching through court records to see who else Corbyn's been vouching for. Headline came from judge's comments recorded in the court papers.

@crankboy, absolutely believe in our legal system and innocent before guilty. However, the court is more than capable of doing its job without interventions from MPs. People are remanded in custody all the time before hearings, that doesn't mean the court thinks they are guilty.

However, the court is more than capable of doing its job without interventions from MPs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12046798/Jeremy-Corbyn-criticised-by-judge-for-making-violent-criminals-sound-like-peace-campaigners.html
So not supporting a bail application not a comment about a "stop the war" case and again Corbyn speaking up for someone he knew.
Do you not understand this is one of the ways courts work people who know things are asked to tell those things to the court so the court can make judgements about things be that flight risk or remorse. Your link does not infact even say that your quote was a specific critsism of Corbyn's contribution.

'Judge Peter Ader challenged the character references that made the accused “sound like peace campaigners” and Mr Corbyn conceded “they are not angels, I know”, adding that they had been involved in “appalling” crimes which he condemned"

@JY I had no idea MPs did this, equal criticism to all who make representations to courts on behalf of people they don't really know, [b]especially[/b] those on trial for defrauding pensioners out of money independent of whether its going to IS or not and those on trial for violent conduct at demonstrations

'Judge Peter Ader challenged the character references that made the accused “sound like peace campaigners” and Mr Corbyn conceded “they are not angels, I know”, adding that they had been involved in “appalling” crimes which he condemned"

Was jamby wrong then 😆

Of course not!

especially those on trial for defrauding pensioners out of money

It's a question of judgement and whether JC actualiy looks into a case or personal history before writing such a letter,

ah I see, Jeremy Corbin should be a racist bigot and should have known he was a wrong' un from the colour of his skin, religion and background.

Corbyn tried to make a viokent person sound like a peace campaigner (Judges words above) including one who was on trial for throwing stuff at the police during a Stop the War protest (outside Israeli embassy fwiw). Hence my post, its really not that complicated.

Do we know any other MPs that have done similar re bail applications? I have equal levels of critism waiting for them.

@kona I used especialy as imo its obviously a very sensitive case and issue and hard to imagine it would come to trial without good evidence. Not all trials are equally nasty/serious.

ah I see, Jeremy Corbin should be a racist bigot and should have known he was a wrong' un from the colour of his skin, religion and background.

Absolutely nothing to with race or religion, he should have done some checks and then not gotten involved. It is about the alleged offense and nothing else,

some checks eh, something like this perhaps ?
[img] [/img]

It is about the alleged offense and nothing else,

You're lying again.

Re another MP doing the same their was a famous one who spoke up vociferously for a bloke facing criminal charges of torture and murder.

Jam read your own links he was talking on behalf of people he knew . Friend of one family another the friend of his son who had been a visitor to his home. Would you really respect him more if he turned his back in people he knew because it was politically inexpedient. Not even the Torygraph has suggested he did not know them or that he said anything untrue.

" obviously a very sensitive case and issue and hard to imagine it would come to trial without good evidence. Not all trials are equally nasty/serious." So back to your distaste for the presumption of innocence in English law.

So presumably jambalaya would reserve much more severe condemnation and accusations of lack of judgement towards a political figure who was, say, personal friend and public supporter of a mass-murdering dictator AND an incredibly prolific sex offender/necrophile?

Seeing as it's just about the alleged offence.

Makes what Jeremy Corbyn did seem very minor in comparison eh.

Corbyn tried to make a viokent person sound like a peace campaigner (Judges words above)

Thats not what it says at all and only an idiot would argue otherwise.

MP Jeremy Corbyn made a heartfelt appeal in court on Monday on behalf of a man involved in a gang feud which left one dead and another with brain damage.
The youth, Yahya Salah, 21, was a friend of Mr Corbyn’s eldest son, Ben, from the time they both attended Acland Burghley School in Tufnell Park.
The Islington North Labour MP told Wood Green Crown Court that, while he was appalled by the violence shown by Salah during a gang attack in 2005, the young man had been extremely remorseful and was desperately trying to make amends by working in the community.
Salah, despite convictions for handling stolen goods and numerous breaches of Asbos and court orders, had so im­pressed as a youth worker that he had become a role model for other teenagers, the MP said.
“I don’t defend the activities of gangs. I deplore it, because my community suffers from the activities of gangs,” Mr Corbyn said.
“The events of that time were appalling and have to be condemned. But [Salah] has managed to significantly change around his life. He has realised that the only way [to change] is to not engage in this pointless gang culture.”
Mr Corbyn said that as a teenager Salah had been a visitor to his house.
“They are not angels, I know,” he said, as Judge Peter Ader challenged the glowing character references that made the accused “sound like peace campaigners”.
Mr Corbyn added: “He has given a lot of time to community work with young Somali people and shown a high degree of contrition.”

Its really hard to reconcile what Corbyn is saying with the judges comments and the judge refers to them in the plural so , unless crankboy or someone can get the transcript, its hard to argue that corbyn was doing as you or the telegraph distortedly claimed

Its easy to never be wrong if you ignore the actual facts as you so admirably display.

@kona, story was in yesterday's Telegraph. They've been searching through court records to see who else Corbyn's been vouching for. Headline came from judge's comments recorded in the court papers.

The Telegraph didn't get that from court records (not surprising as this stuff isn't usually recorded in a way that's easily searchable, if at all). They got it by rehashing an old report in the local newspaper. But all of that is written in the newspaper report that you said you read.

we won't need courts soon, we just get Jeremy to do a cursory glance over the case notes and pronounce judgement.

That comment doesn't make even make sense.

Searching through court records sounds a bit too much like actual journalism for the Telegraph these days.

Can I just point out that you are wrong here?
The Telegraph didn't get that from court records (not surprising as this stuff isn't usually recorded in a way that's easily searchable, if at all). They got it by rehashing an old report in the local newspaper. But all of that is written in the newspaper report that you said you read.

The more I read jambalaya's posts the more I feel that I'm sitting here witnessing a Tory car crash in progress.

I feel there is less and less need for any input as I watch bemused at the unfolding crash.

Has jamba not been in with his latest report on the French regional elections? No? I presume he was expecting to spend the evening with a picture of Marine and a box of Kleenex but is having a disappointingly flaccid evening as the NF takes a pasting (according to exit polls anyway).

Those good old French. 1st round is always protest, 2nd round is more sensible - as night follows day - though if I'd been that excited by the NF's apparent success in the first round, I'd probably have forgotten that too.

Not that Sarkozy's success is anything to cheer about...

Not that Sarkozy's success is anything to cheer about...

It is not a great result for Sarkozy.

But but but.... jambalaya's married to a French person so he must be an expert on everything to do with France and French politics. What on earth is going on?

No mefty, it's not a great result. Though, I clearly did say it's a great result. I stand corrected. 🙂

I did not make myself clear, it is a bad result for Sarkozy, it seems less likely he will be the right's presidential candidate next year.

Watching the coverage in Paris as it happens. FN where subject of tactical voting with Socialists withdrawing in Calais and Provence and tellingntheir supporters to vote for Republicans. FN polled 30% nationally. As Le Pen said in her speech after the result the FN have had their best result ever and totally wradicated the left in a number of regions. Republicans (Sarkozy) have won 7 of 5 regions and this is after the socialists did all they could to create regions they would win. Ile-de-France (Paris) has voted Republican for the first time in 17 years and they still won despite 17% vote for FN. Normandy was a close win for Republicans overturning Socialst control last time, could have gone either way.

Walls (PM) speech made it clear the socialists would listen to the voters and review their policies in responce to public opinion, they have lost many voters to FN.

@mefty I think you are wrong on Sarkozy, I'll have a small sode bet on that if you want.

On a populist basis FN and UMP/Republicans niw have 60% of the vote

Offline now as re-watching Star Wars in Machete order (Chapeau to posters in that thread for suggestion) anead of next wekk

What on earth is going on?

OK jambalaya was wrong, but you can probably only count on the fingers of one hand how times he's been wrong today

Can I just point out that you are wrong here?

You must be mistaken!

Jamba going a bit officer crabtree over there?

Jamba going a bit officer crabtree over there?

Anyone?

C'mon...

IGMC.

Jamba going a bit officer crabtree over there

Back on Jeremy apparently he's going over to the EU meeting too, make a bit of trouble around the fringes - why not ?

At least you didn't say I'm the bar owner.

Why, what's wrong with Rene?

.

EDIT : I've got it ........ he didn't willingly collaborate with the Nazis, in other words he was a left-wing terrorist sympathizer.

http://news.sky.com/story/1609253/jeremy-corbyn-100-facts-to-mark-100-days