Jeremy Corbyn

Wow talk about selectively picking your data

Wow, I chose from the first time he stood in Islington North until the most recent election, what did you think I meant by [i]"Since becoming MP for Islington North..."[/i]? How is that "selectively picking" ffs ? 🙄

In fact it shows how unpopular the Labour party was between the late 70's to late 80's

And Jeremy Corbyn significantly increased the Labour vote in Islington North in the 80's, I think it's you who's doing the selective picking of data.

convert - Member
To be honest if the drivel of half truths, generalities and banal idealism that is passed off as political comment on my social media feeds is considered by the general populous as an accurate representation of the news and current thinking we are thoroughly screwed whatever.

Presumably you'd do what I do, and look at stuff that people you know and respect are talking about, and then follow up on it and make your own decision.

Use of social media doesn't mean you have to mindlessly follow the herd.

making his seat one of the safest Labour seats in the UK.

You are insinuating [b]he[/b] made it one of the safest seats for Labour, when in reality it had been for the 40 previous years. Yes the share of his vote increased through the 80's but so did the Labour vote in general as the moved towards gaining power in 1995.

There is nothing you can extrapolate from his election wins in Islington Noth through to the wider country. Apart from the that Labour's Islington % win tends to mirror the overall voting pattern for Labour in general e.g. popular when Labour were in power and not when they weren't.

Presumably you'd do what I do, and look at stuff that people you know and respect are talking about, and then follow up on it and make your own decision.

Use of social media doesn't mean you have to mindlessly follow the herd.

My problem with social media is using it as a source of news, political or otherwise. As a place for commentary between fellow 'non experts'I guess it is OK but if it was your only source of information it's a sad state of affairs. In my day job I deal with 17&18 yr olds almost constantly - it appears to be a generation that do not watch the news on telly, don't read news papers plus also rarely visit news (or news editorial) websites. Their only window on the world is via social media processed drivel. Far from the being the most informed and liberated generation yet (as they should be with a world of information available to them) I would suggest they are an ignorant, misinformed and easily misdirected group. They seem to live in a self indulgent bubble more than any generation before them. They have little political emotion because they know so little. It's a worry.

You are insinuating he made it one of the safest seats for Labour, when in reality it had been for the 40 previous years. Yes the share of his vote increased through the 80's but so did the Labour vote in general as the moved towards gaining power in 1995.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Because that is exactly what he has done.

Which getting back to my point suggests that he has some appeal in the 'London Labour Heartlands'.

Apart from the that Labour's Islington % win tends to mirror the overall voting pattern for Labour in general e.g. popular when Labour were in power and not when they weren't.

so now that it's more popular than ever, while Labour haven't won a general election in 10 years, what does that say?

I agree with Comrade binnski, for a change.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Well if you are happy to ignore the results from 1945 and 1958 that is. In fact for the whole period from 1935 to present day only twice has the % voting labour in the constituency dropped below 50% (1969 with 49.2% and 1983 with 40.4%). So this seat is up there as one of the safest for Labour and Corbyn's % vote is bang on par with the vote share expected historically.

From 1983 onward Corbyn's % vote share mirrors Labours see graph, so it is clear that Corbyn is not out performing what is expected and hence, little to do with him personally.

[img] [/img]

Well if you are happy to ignore the results from 1945 and 1958 that is.

I am perfectly happy to look at the results from 1945-1958.

Corbyn's majority this May was 3 times the average Labour majority in Islington North from 1945-1958.

.

From 1983 onward Corbyn's % vote share mirrors Labours see graph, so it is clear that Corbyn is not out performing what is expected and hence, little to do with him personally.

Corbyn received [i]more[/i] votes and a [i]larger[/i] majority this May than he got in the Labour landslide of 1997, although percentage of the vote was down slightly. How many other Labour MPs achieved a result this May comparable to their result in the landslide of '97? If many had we would have a Labour government today.

As I said earlier................the alternative that Corbyn offers has an appeal in the 'London Labour Heartland' too. Even though some people people claim he's a certain election loser.

No matter how much you go about [i]"selectively picking your data"[/i] dragon.

This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015, in fact Corbyn's 5.8% increase shows he under performed when the average Labour increase was 7.1%

[img] [/img]

Corbyn's majority this May was 3 times the average Labour majority in Islington North from 1945-1958.

I assume you mean total numbers which is a totally meaningless figure as the population of the UK has grown. Using percentages is a much better method and shows Corbyn's result are simply normal for a Labour candidate in that seat.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Excellent, with Corbyn at the helm, Labours safe seats are even safer

Lucky you don't need to appeal to anyone in the swing seats in order to win an election, isn't it?

dragon - Member

This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015

Says the person who declares [i]"Wow talk about selectively picking your data"[/i] ! 😆

[img] [/img]

Phew! All these stats are bewildering but both ernie and dragon seem to have missed the most important one.We haven't elected a prime minister with a beard since 1900.

Since first being elected Corbyn's once impressive beard has diminished hugely in stature, I expect him to be clean shaven in another 5 years. He's obviously been planning his journey to Downing Street for a very long time.

Fiendishly clever these lefties 🙂

loddrik's earlier post was very insightful,Del boy Hatton just been on Newsnight backing Corbyn,I think?It's an establishment conspiracy to demonise him obviously.I actually thought that Tony Mulhearn was the guy in the pic that loddrik posted was who he was referring too ,esp.being a taxi driver.Tony was a very good speaker and a decent bloke from what I recall.Seems to have stuck to his beliefs too.

I'll bite.

Indeed, heaven forbid that the future of the LP should take Scotland into account. But take the point, criticism of the SNP is verboten. The masters of authoratitve rule and argument suppression.

Quite the opposite actually, you can constructively criticise all you like. The problem is that you refuse to do and instead just use the slightest opportunity to launch attacks on them which are repetitive and, quite frankly, boring. This is about Labour, you could have made your point brief but instead you chose the old routine. We get it, you don't like them, you don't need to keep going on about it (as an aside do you post anywhere else under the name Mexico86? If not I suggest you and him get together, he's a fellow southerner who chooses to weight in with the same opinions, phrases and ignorance)

I say this as someone who would rather vote for someone other than the SNP if I had a credible choice. But I don't, so I chose to use my vote where it might just count for something.

the truth is you know bugger all

Spot on. And like Andrew Marr yesterday I am very keen to learn why the SNP are so reluctant to use their current fiscal powers or why they think cutting corporation tax suits their anti-austerity (sic) agenda. Among many "hiddens" obviously. So for those of us in ignorance it was a pity that the deceitful one chose not to answer a perfectly straight question yesterday. Plus ca change. Talk about bingo......

Like Andrew Marr you obviously choose to either wallow in ignorance or play the fool to perpetuate a point. The fact is that the costs of implementing existing tax raising powers would outstrip any revenue generated (via duplication of existing services and increased admin costs) by virtue of the fact any raised monies are removed from the existing block grant. Why would anyone want to use powers that leave you worse off, answer me that?

Well that is the debate isn't it. You have set out your hypothesis and I have set out mine ie, no panic, once the SNP are subject to proper scrutiny and opposition, the mirage will crumble. Of course they will spin the opposite because it is in their interest to do so and make the LP look like a party in panic.

But that's not going to happen is it? We abandoned the Tories and then when Labour went the same we we kicked them to the kerb as well. If/when SNP lose support someone else will step into the void.

Couldn't possibly be down to the fact true left wing politics are not very workable or popular in the UK and left wing politicians are as rubbish as all the others or possible worse at working together. In fact the whole rhetoric of the left seems to boil down to it's not fair, it's not my fault, it's all their fault, if only we could live in our utopian bubble where the real world doesn't apply.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-jeremy-corbyn-policies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html

To be generous to you, you're probably just brainwashed by the media, rather than genuinely holding these ill-informed opinions yourself. Don't worry, [i]it's not your fault.[/i]

Like Andrew Marr you obviously choose to either wallow in ignorance or play the fool to perpetuate a point.

Don't forget the role of Shakespeare's fool in pointing out the truth!

That of course, is the great secret of the the successful fool - that he is no fool at all - Asimov's guide to Shakespeare

But thanks. Pity old Alex wasn't able to give such a succinct answer. It's obvious now......

Why would anyone want to use powers that leave you worse off, answer me that?

Why indeed, and yet lo and behold Swinney is proposing just that. What a strange old world Scottish politics is and that is before we get on to the economic foundations.

Penny for Scotland anyone!!!

It was funny to watch Swinney also spin the fact that Scottish "cuts" we're less than expected and delayed.

So Labour have no need to panic. Just navigate the Scotch mist that surrounds the SNP and the lack of clothes on the Emperor will quickly become apparent. I am sure Jezza is smart enough to spot that - he is left wing after all!

1) why isn't success in Islington North

"Well, that makes him a winner in Islington. Not exactly a good sample for the likeliest UK outcome..."

Why not?

"This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015, in fact Corbyn's 5.8% increase shows he under performed when the average Labour increase was 7.1%"

You don't realise what you're saying. Despite not having a collapse in his vote during the Brown years, Corbyn still managed to grow his share by 5.8%. A donkey could have increased the Labour vote 7.1% if it had previously dropped in that seat by 20%.

Why not compare what happened to Islington North to neighbouring and near by "safe" Labour constituencies?

Look at Islington South and Liverpool Walton both labour candidates increased share of vote more than Corbyn.

Why did Labour do better in all these simple the collapse of the Lib Dem vote.

From Today's Guardian:

"Knock Knock"
"Who's there?"
"Jeremy Corbyn"
"Jeremy Corbyn who?"
"Jeremy Corbyn".

But I see no way that Liz whats-her-name, Eds wife, or Andy Burnham have the slightest clue how to make the labour party an actual electable political force, so they might as well have a punt on Jezza. It can't really get any worse, can it?

the man love for Andy seems to have diminished a little Binners 😉

I know, or knew, Andy well. We went to school together (surprisingly - not Eton). He's a top bloke. And seems to understand where the party went wrong. The Labour Party needs to reconnect with its disillusioned voters. He's probably the right man for that.

That was before a proper Labour politician with sandals and socks threw his hat in the ring.

[img] [/img]

To be fair a few weeks ago Andy Burnham was Labour's best chance.

But now due the arrogance and complacency of the political elite a real Labour politician is in with a chance.

Jezza is doing very well isn't he? Some story and getting stronger today. Wonderful.

But now due the arrogance and complacency of the political elite a real Labour politician is in with a chance.

is Andy a fake labour politician?

is Andy a fake labour politician?

He was on the news today, trying very hard to be more authentically leftwing, but still he slipped into the safety first tactic of hedging his bets and not really saying what he thinks. I can't even remember the subject, which says a lot. This is why Corbyn is doing well, among other reasons.

Well I won't be the first to dismiss Blair and the political elite in the Labour Party as fakes.

Still, as a committed Tory supporter I wouldn't let that worry you too much big and daft. The Tories in the Conservative Party seem pretty genuine 🙂

Coming lately to this mighty 10 page showdown between Ernie and the rest, and even though I have a general belief that the Labour Party was established to peddle essentially reactionary ideas to the working classes (and has only entrenched that position with the passage of time), I have to say that I LIKE JC. I knew him in the 80s when he was a trade unionist, and he was a straight decent bloke then........and he really hasn't changed (only the sandals.)What you see really is what you get with him.

And that is the secret of his current thoroughly unexpected success.

Still, as a committed [s]Tory supporter[/s][b]cynic[/b] I wouldn't let that worry you too much big and daft. The Tories in the Conservative Party seem [s]pretty genuine[/s] [b]to be on holiday or laughing their socks off[/b]

FIFY

I'm more amused by your sudden Labour credentials Ernie IIRC you have stated previously that you haven't voted labour in a long time and aren't a party member.....

have you invested £3 in this election or are you still campaigning to get others to put their feet on the ground rather than getting your own hands dirty?

are you voting for Corbyn in the leadership election?

Well I won't be the first to dismiss Blair and the political elite in the Labour Party as fakes.

but Andy he a "top bloke" and went to school with Binners, how can he be a member of the political elite?

Coming lately to this mighty 10 page showdown between Ernie and the rest

Really? Are you sure you've read the thread?

There appears to be a surprising level of support for Jeremy Corbyn on this thread, something which I clearly wholeheartedly approve of.

I'm not sure where you're getting a "showdown" from, let alone a mighty one. Do you often misread things as impressively as that?

Or is it me who's misread a subtle attempt at humour?

There appears to be a surprising level of support for Jeremy Corbyn on this thread, something which I clearly wholeheartedly approve of

are you voting for him though?

or do you want the £3 to be crowdfunded on here?

or would you fail the eligibility criteria

interestingly enough I can sign up to vote in the leadership via my trade union, not sure it even costs me £3

I'm more amused by your sudden Labour credentials Ernie IIRC you have stated previously that you haven't voted labour in a long time and aren't a party member.....

You are right - I haven't supported Labour since Blair/New Labour, that's hardly an unusual position ...... a whole multitude of former Labour supporters share an identical position.

I think it's unlikely that Corbyn will win the leadership contest but if he does then I can give a cast iron guarantee that, as long as he doesn't go off the rails, I will support the Labour Party once more.

Again, nothing strange about that and it's a position shared by countless other former Labour supporters. In fact one of the most powerful arguments in favour of Corbyn is that he will help to win back the millions of lost votes from former traditional Labour voters.

So carry on being amused but Corbyn posses a far greater threat to the Tories than someone like Liz Kendall.

I think it's unlikely that Corbyn will win the leadership contest but if he does then I can give a cast iron guarantee that, as long as he doesn't go off the rails, I will support the Labour Party once more

despite all the eulogies on here it isn't worth £3 to help make it happen though?

are you sure you don't want to get crowdfunding 😉

So carry on being amused but Corbyn posses a far greater threat to the Tories than someone like Liz Kendel

what is amusing is that I'm far more likely to vote in the election than you despite all the effort you put in on this forum

I don't know what you're talking about big and daft, I've already stated on here that I've paid my £3. The Labour Party have been in touch and I had a fairly long conversation with the geezer who took all my details. I explained that I was a former affiliated member and supporter. I mentioned my involvement in former Labour minister Malcolm Wicks successfully winning the seat from the Tories. I told him that in recent years I had ceased to support Labour and had backed initially the LibDems and then the Green Party but now wanted to reengage with the Labour Party. He offered me a discounted one year membership which I declined and then he informed me that I would receive my ballot paper within a day or two after the August 12 deadline. I'm not sure why I'm explaining all this to you, specially as your sympathies clearly lie with the Tory Party.

EDIT : I mentioned on this thread a week ago that I was voting :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/jeremy-corbyn/page/5?replies=356#post-7057907

[i]"I have registered to be a Labour supporter"[/i]

are you voting for him though?

or do you want the £3 to be crowdfunded on here?

or would you fail the eligibility criteria

I think I get a vote, as a member of my local socialist club - http://thetradesclub.com

I'll be voting for Corbyn. I no longer support the current Tory-lite version of the Labour party but I would vote for him.

Also getting a vote through GMB though IIRC you can still vote twice.

No preferred candidates that I've noticed.

all affiliated trade unionists who wish to vote in this 'contest' -need to register with the labour party--its not a given , you need to bepro active--it involes pressing buttons and clicking on a computer-you have just over two weeks to do it -takes about 2 minutes.....

despite all the eulogies on here it isn't worth £3 to help make it happen though?

😆

You can be bothered to stalk back through binners' posts to find the one where he stated that he'd support Andy, but you can't even read back through this thread.

No wonder they say right wingers are on average less intelligent than those on the left. Well done you!

I'm not sure why I'm explaining all this to you, specially as your sympathies clearly lie with the Tory Party

if they did I'd be voting for Corbyn. which I'm not

ooooh, have we done this bit yet?

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11771146/Jeremy-Corbyn-receives-Unisons-backing-for-Labour-leadership.html ]Unison backs Corbyn.[/url]

I must say I also expected unison to back Burnham given the seemingly moderate stance they have localy to me in health (as compared to unite/GMB on the one side and 'spank me MR Hunt' RCN on the other.)

first thoughts yesterday on hearing this were positive. FPTP failed to give the actual idealogical alternative (ie greens) the seats, maybe someone who is more than halfway there will give people in actually -approaching-marginal contrituencies a realistic alternative.

So carry on being amused but Corbyn posses a far greater threat to the Tories than someone like Liz Kendall.

Nail on the head as usual. As I said to a friend of mine who is a Kendall supporter, given that labour have lost a huge chunk of it's base support to the SNP, UKIP and the Greens, and that the tories have requisitioned their best policies from the last campaign and positioned themselves in the centre, just who is going to vote for them next time under the likes of Kendall? I really haven't got a clue.

At the very least Corbyn offers the chance to regain the lost supporters on the left, and gain a lot more from the young and disillusioned non-voters. I actually think he'd do more than that and bring over some of the centrists once they see through the tabloid and establishment scaremongering. Like Farage he's successfully positioning himself as the anti-establishment candidate and that will have massive broad appeal.

the man love for Andy seems to have diminished a little Binners

All of them are pretty disapointing to be honest B&D. But particularly Andy. It reminds me of one of Gordon Browns underlings when he took over from Blair.

They'd all assumed that his hunger for the top job was because, once installed, he had some grand masterplan. Some programme he'd been eagerly awaiting to carry through. But when he finally got the keys to number 10, with his minions all awaiting their new directives, it soon became painfully apparent that there was nothing. Absolutely no substance at all behind the rhetoric.

Andy made all the right noises prior to the election, but now, when asked to flesh it out, it appears to be the same as all of them (except Corbyn) - we'll do what the Tories were going to do, but we'll wring our hands a bit and try not to look like we're enjoying it quite so much.

Pathetic! And utterly pointless, as it hasn't a cat in hells chance of getting them elected

Oh... the bookies now have Corbyn at odds of 5/4 favourite with the latest union endorsements. So they clearly think its already a done deal.

Presumably they are not interested in power, just ideological purity.

Will Jeremy be vetting his (shadow) cabinet hopefuls to make sure that any applicant is "One of us"? 😉

I think it could be quite a benefit to Corbyn to see all the far-too-smug right wingers cackling with self-satisfied glee at the prospect of him becoming leader. I think most people will (rightfully) see that as a pretty unedifying spectacle.

Remember - the Tories have a majority just above single figures. Hardly a ringing endosement from the electorate. So maybe the arrogant carping from the likes of yourself and the Torygraph, who are saying that the next election is now pretty much in the bag, could be just what Corbyn wants, and may benefit him enormously.

Just a thought

Not barrelled into this before but as someone who voted Labour in the last election purely because I felt I had to given the rise of the Conservatives Corbyn speaks to me. He is the Labour Party that it claims to be, not the pseudo-Conservatives that they are. I think if Corbyn can win over people like me who have, or were on the brink of, going Green, Lib Dem or SNP then he'll do a much better job than Liz Kendall trying to win over floating Conservative voters.

He sounds like a change and that's what Labour, and the country (not the media) need. It might be a flop, he may be too left wing to win elections, but it'll at least kick the Labour party back to where it ought to be for 2025.

but Andy he a "top bloke" and went to school with Binners, how can he be a member of the political elite?

Cambridge/ intern/ special advisor/ safe labour seat/ PPS/ junior minister/ senior minister.

Pretty standard fare...

Will Jeremy be vetting his (shadow) cabinet hopefuls to make sure that any applicant is "One of us"?

Another lazy assumption and stereotype. If the best his opponents can come up with is harking back to the 1970/80s to paint him as some archaic trotskyite with his fist in the air then he's probably very happy with that. [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11768611/Corbyns-rivals-think-hes-a-dinosaur-they-couldnt-be-more-wrong.html ]Even some in the Daily Telegraph get this[/url], I don't know why many in the labour party don't.

It looks to me like the best his opponents can do is flop around like a lot of gasping fish on the end of the Trade Union's hook, with Jeremy as the bait.

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-clarity-under-30s-human-factors ]If nothing else, the Corbyn campaign is producing some rather good journalism for a change.[/url]

I was with it right up until the final sentence.
"Tens of thousands of people get to decide – and in times as irreverent and unpredictable as these, that means everything: literally, everything."

Literally?

Presumably in the same way as the Chinese stock market was recently described, by a BBC presenter, as "literally" falling off a cliff. 🙄

Well yes, not one for the grammar freaks and pedants. It is the Grauniad after all 🙂

binners

Just a thought

Makes you think, doesn't it?

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Makes you think, doesn't it?

It makes me think that perhaps the old 'loony left' hysterics from the right may not quite wash this time. I don't know whether the electorate are more informed and intelligent than they were in 1983, given social media etc I suspect they are. What I think I do know though, is that they are sick of being told what to think and what to believe by politicians and their media baron supporters. Scotland proved that, and England may not be as far behind as everyone thought.

Studies show that newspaper readers are unlikely to be influenced by displays of naked partisanship during an election week.

As Alastair Campbell says: “Is the press as powerful as once it was? The answer is no. Is social media more important? The answer is yes. But are either the deciding factors? No.”

It would seem that your idea that the electorate are a bunch of mindless sheep ripe for opinion-moulding by an evil empire of press barons is spurious. Oh well. Another Left Wing myth still being peddled despite all the evidence to the contrary, then.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/uk-election-results-was-it-the-sun-wot-won-it-for-david-cameron-10236682.html

Well the Daily Telegraph has certainly changed its tune......their readers must be getting very confused!

A couple of weeks ago the Daily Telegraph was urging its readers to register as Labour supporters so that they could vote for Jeremy Corbyn. A Corbyn win, they were told, would absolutely guarantee that Labour could not win the next general election.

That was then, now panic is starting to set in and they are not quite so sure. Today Daily Telegraph readers were told, quote, [i]"he probably won’t ever be Prime Minister"[/i]

So in a matter of just a couple of weeks the Daily Telegraph has gone from, Jeremy Corbyn stands no chance of ever being Prime Minister to, Jeremy Corbyn probably won’t ever be Prime Minister 🙂

It's obviously suddenly occurred to them that ordinary voters might actually quite like policies such as opposition to austerity, Trident replacement, and tuition fees.

Perhaps it's finally dawned on them that those very policies caused an unprecedented political earthquake in Scotland only a few weeks ago which saw 3 pro austerity, pro Trident replacement, and pro tuition fees parties, virtually wiped out.

So now in a state of panic, and after attacking pretty much everything about Corbyn except his policies, they are starting to attack his policies. It seems that "he's left-wing loser and that's all you need to know" doesn't work anymore.

According to the Daily Telegraph :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11773610/Why-we-should-all-start-feeling-nervous-about-Corbyn-omics.html ]Why we should all start feeling nervous about Corbyn-omics[/url]

[i]"Jeremy Corbyn is pushing an agenda that is not so much from a different political tradition as from a different planet"

"Everything about “Corbyn-omics” is delusional"[/i]

Now I don't know if Joseph Stiglitz reads the Daily Telegraph but in case he doesn't someone ought to tell the former chief economist of the World Bank that he's from a different planet and delusional - according to the Daily Telegraph.

Stiglitz is quite supportive of the agenda that Corbyn is pushing.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nobel-prize-winning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-is-not-surprised-at-success-of-the-corbyn-campaign-10418090.html ]Jeremy Corbyn is favourite for Labour leadership because party has 'wimped out', says Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz[/url]

[i]“I am not surprised at all that there is a demand for a strong anti-austerity movement around increased concern about inequality. The promises of New Labour in the UK and of the Clintonites in the US have been a disappointment,” argued the economist, who has 40 honorary doctorates, and at least eight honorary professorships to his name.

Stiglitz went on to lambast left-wing parties like Labour for failing to oppose austerity regimes, arguing they’ve “wimped out” of proposing an alternative to cuts and privatisation.[/i]

Look at Islington South and Liverpool Walton both labour candidates increased share of vote more than Corbyn.

Corbyn never had that sort of collapse. In that context, raising the Labour share of the vote is even more impressive.

Get it?

No one needs to worry about Corbyn economics (a misnomer if ever there was one). There is plenty of evidence (for those who can be bothered to look) of what happens when populism meet reality - the latter always wins. Which is why Corbynites will/would be ultimately dissatisfied in the same way that some of the RW will note that we have a chancellor running an expansionary fiscal policy with ever increase debt. Funny old world.

The only folk who seem to get away without scrutiny of how rhetoric is a mile away from reality are the party that we are no longer allowed to mention. Their time will come......

Tsipras" latest fun and games is a case in point. Be careful what/who you vote for.

Stieglitz also supported the nonsense that he who cannot be mentioned tried to hoodwink people with.

Not a great advert. Jezza is doing fine without the kiss of death from Stiglitz.

I would vote for Corbyn for some good firefight entertainment.

The rest are simply lightweight ...

😆

Its brilliant to see someone who still believes this kind of stuff. Very refreshing.

Stieglitz also supported the nonsense that he who cannot be mentioned tried to hoodwink people with.

Perhaps he should hand his Nobel Prize for Economics back ?

BTW when you say "he who cannot be mentioned tried to hoodwink people" I assume you mean Alex Salmond of the SNP ?

So he "tried" and presumably failed then. Can you explain in that case why the SNP pretty much wiped out all other political parties in Scotland back in May?

I would be very interested in your explanation.

Blimey Ernie are you ok? You seem well off piste these days. Stiglitz was bought in to justify some of the BS (that you spotted in your more enlightened phase) relating to independence. And the result ?

The irony at the moment is the fact that populist and some left of centre parties are imposing more austere policies that our nasty Tories.

Still maybe Corbyn can be a latter day King Canute. It will be interesting to see. Let's hope so. It could be fun

Stiglitz was bought in to justify some of the BS (that you spotted in your more enlightened phase) relating to independence.

I totally agree that the SNP's anti-austerity stance was a sham. I also believe that the Labour Party's manifesto back in May was to an extent more left-wing than the SNP's.

But I nevertheless supported the SNP because Labour wasn't even arguing against austerity. It was totally pointless supporting an austerity-lite Tory-lite Labour Party.

I also think, contrary to your suggestion, that the SNP was extremely successful with their campaign - one which had central to it anti-austerity.

In case of Corbyn he offers imo more realistic anti-austerity policies backed up with more realistic economics.

The harm that austerity can cause during difficult economic times is being increasingly challenged by not just the Left but also fairly conservative forces such as the IMF.

Well you should be voting Tory next given t they have been less austere (sic) that Labour and have continued to run an expansionary fiscal policy coupled with an extraordinary loose monetary policy.

So if you want real anti-austerity you know who to vote for - certainly not the so-called anti-austerity parties like Syriza or even Holande la rouge.

You have noted the lastest Greek referendum haven't you?

Still Jezza might pull some old school magic out of the hat. State ownership the solution to all our problems...(just look at education)

Oh ffs don't start your 'the Tories are an anti-austerity party' bollocks. Yes halfway through the last Parliament when it became clear that their disastrous policies would have dire consequences for the economy Osborne decided to opt for Labour's more "cautious" halving the deficit approach.

But the Tories are still committed to pointless, cruel, and self-defeating cuts. Which is precisely why they want 40% cuts in non-protected departmental budgets on top of £12bn worth of welfare cuts.

State ownership the solution to all our problems...(just look at education)

Corbyn hasn't said that state ownership is the solution to all our problems, that's just a silly jibe by THM which frankly doesn't warrant comment imo.

Still maybe Corbyn can be a latter day King Canute.

What moral do you think the story of King Canute (a man who, at the time of the tide turning episode, was told he was all powerful) tells? And how do you think that Corbyn (a man who has ploughed a lonely and generally unpopular furrow for three decades) resembles Canute?

Corbyn hasn't said that state ownership is the solution to all our problems, that's just a silly jibe by THM which frankly doesn't warrant comment imo.

And yet....

Of course re anti-austerity much better to look at what people do rather than what people say. An expansionary fiscal policy is characterised by government spending > government revenue. The result a budget deficit. Now remind me what policy are those nasty Tories are running? The clue might be in the level of UK debt - rising or falling? And remember what Cameroon said about you can't solve a debt crisis with more debt!!!!!! Look at what they do, not what they say....

So both austerity and populism fail to stand up to scrutiny beyond the headlines. That applies to politicians on both sides of the debate including those who cannot be mentioned. Of course, you have step away from party politics lens to spot that. And that is obviously a challenge for many......

Canute? Another example of looking at the reality not people think or say about someone. Canute was not as most think pretending that he could stand up to the power of the sea (a metaphor here foreconomic reality)

In Huntingdon's account, **** set his throne by the sea shore and commanded the incoming tide to halt and not wet his feet and robes. Yet "continuing to rise as usual [the tide] dashed over his feet and legs without respect to his royal person. Then the king leapt backwards, saying: 'Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings,...

In my metaphor replace kings with MPs (or even Tsipras as a specific example)

Later historians repeated the story, most of them adjusting it to have **** more clearly aware that the tides would not obey him, and staging the scene to rebuke the flattery of his courtiers.

Jezza is a bright bloke and know full well that in the end he (just like Osborne the other way round) will end up rebuking those who seek to flatter him now. It' was ever thus....

Good old Canute.....

Likening Tsipiras to Canute... You need to rewrite the story so that actually he's standing on a sea wall at high tide knowing the sea should recede, and all logic and the International Oceonograpy Fund agrees... but Wolfgang Schauble's throwing buckets of piss at him and saying "No, this is totally the sea! And you've only got yourself to blame"

Quite possibly NW, quite possibly. Have a quieter day so we can think of a suitable metaphor for how the Germnas don't understand how their pet project works.

Love the swear avoidance filter above on the alternative shorter version of ****(ute)

I'm no thing lefty, but at least Corbyn will bring some integrity and morals back to Labour. The vote chasing regime under Ed M would have sold their kids into slavery for votes, and never really stood for anything.

Labour should stand for labour principles, then try and persuade people they are right, rather than policy based on focus group vote projections.

Well the Daily Telegraph has certainly changed its tune......their readers must be getting very confused!

I'm not sure what I'm enjoying more, watching the new labour establishment run around like headless chickens wondering what the hell to do about Corbyn, or seeing the slow realisation among the tories that what happened in Scotland could catch on in England. Either way it's hugely entertaining. If Corbyn does pull it off, for once the cliche 'political earthquake' will be entirely justified.

Paddy Ashdown (remember him?) is promising to eat his hat is Corbyn wins the next election 😉

or seeing the slow realisation among the tories that what happened in Scotland could catch on in England.

In that case, I think you miss the beauty of what's going on

Quite simply, the greatest unifier of the right, is the rise of the crazies that inhabit the hard left! Look at what happened in the Election when it looked like a Labour/SNP coalition might appear, it took away the comfort factor and brought the 'natural tories' back from UKIP and the Lib Dems.

The Telegraph is playing a genius game of unifying the Tories in the run up to the referendum, when history says they should be tearing themselves apart.

unifying the Tories

Fantasise about it while you can, there is no unification in a party based on individual greed.