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They won't win unless they make some comment regarding spending and budget control.
I look forward to the day when a new set of lenses are created that replace the increasingly irrelevant left and right wing.
Given the confused nature of politics and economics these days we really do need new terms of reference.
1. Many people like Corbyn not because they agree with everything he says but because he is a breath of fresh air in a sea of beige, identikit politicians.
Where have I heard that before?
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Won't someone think of the Hard Working Families ™
Corbyn not left enough for my liking...
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Ah, a proper Champagne Socialist 🙂
loddrik - MemberCorbyn not left enough for my liking...
Jeremy Corbyn is certainly more left-wing than Derek Hatton.
[i]"It’s been 27 years since I left Liverpool city council. Since then politics has changed, the world has changed and I’ve changed with it."[/i] - millionaire property developer Derek Hatton.
I think you'll notice that the above picture is not of today's 'millionaire property developer' Derek Hatton, rather a mid 1980's Militant Tendency Derek Hatton...
I know exactly what he is now. He used to live quite literally around the corner from me. Plus I've picked him up outside Goodison after the match and all he was talking about was playing golf in the Algarve!!
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Thats a lot of potential voters. If only someone could give them something to vote for.
I think you'll notice that the above picture is not of today's 'millionaire property developer' Derek Hatton, rather a mid 1980's Militant Tendency Derek Hatton...
I'm sorry you hadn't made your very point clear. I now see that the point you were making is that 'Corbyn is not left enough for your liking,' when compared to a transient Trot of 30 years ago.
Well the truth is that very few of us were left-wing enough for transient Trots of 30 years ago.
Were you once a Trot loddrik ? And were you terribly left-wing and revolutionary ? 🙂
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Thats a lot of potential voters.
Fascinating graph, an amazing increase in non voters in under 10 years (1992 to 2001). Also, we seem to have passed peak apathy which I didn't realise.....
Now where's that photo of Lynch's alter-ego Fred Kite when you need it....... 'All those fields of corn and opera in the evening'.....
Have you tried google images ?
[quote=ernie_lynch said]Have you tried google images ?
Don't be silly, central committee will have censored all those.
I see.
Very good.
Unfortunately not. Maybe you can post one up of him Ernest? 🙂
I was at two constituency hustings tonight the results we very clear a Corbyn and Watson landslide in both.
[url= http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4501406.ece ]My Week- By Jeremy Corbyn*[/url]
Tuesday
Bit of a bruising interview on Channel 4 News last night. I shouldn’t have been surprised. Famous bastion of the hard right. Krishnan Guru-Murthy gave me a hard time for describing Hamas and Hezbollah as “my friends” and I rather lost my temper. Silly, really, but I was worried there was far worse to come out. Thank God they didn’t realise I’m also friends with Len McClusky.
ernie_lynch said » Have you tried google images ?
Don't be silly, central committee will have censored all those.
Rubbish. Thanks to the recent privatisation, we are pleased to be able to announce a new more efficient Google images which is able to compete in a competitive marketplace. Of course, there is now a charge for each image viewed, this may or may not increase incrementally due to the need to provide increasingly absurd shareholder dividends. It is our aim that the less well off in society will no longer be able to benefit from the service within 5 years. At least, not if they also want to be able to feed their children.
You couldn't make this stuff up. Nominate someone you don't agree with then complain when the plan goes tits up.
Three Labour MPs who lent support to Mr Corbyn to get him on the ballot and broaden the leadership debate have told The Telegraph their decision has backfired. .........there is growing anger from those who put forward Mr Corbyn despite disagreeing with his politics about the way he has grown to dominate coverage of the race.
Just watching the sunday politics show, they have got all 4 candidates in a debate He's the only one who looks like a leader imo. And i'm no leftie.
Interestingly The Guardian / Observer are pretty convinced that Corbyn will assign Labour to Oblivion for a good few decades if he wins...
If a leaked poll is any guide, then a growing number of the Labour party membership now seem to view Jeremy Corbyn as the answer to that drubbing. This is like a pupil who, on being told they answered incorrectly, repeats the same answer shouting ever more forcefully. It’s still the wrong answer. The party faces a choice. It can strive to get re-elected and thereby have an impact on those it purports to represent. Or it can sink in to a warm bath of delusion and face an even larger wipeout in 2020.
Interestingly The Guardian / Observer are pretty convinced that ....
Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ? I can't remember what their stance was back in May.
Certainly in May 2010 the Guardian was urging it's readers to back Nick Clegg and his party, despite all the evidence that he was just another repackaged Tory. Even they would agree that was a monumental blunder.
So I wouldn't pay too much notice to what the Guardian/Observer opinion is or what they are "pretty convinced" about.
Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ?
Those publications are generally left leaning and socialist in their views....as the Labour party is supposedly too.
Without actually coming out and saying it i'd say they would align themselves more with Labour than the Tories.
I hope Corbyn wins, Labour could do with a traditional leftie leader....whether they get elected with him or not is largely irrelevant, it creates a genuine opposition and forms the basis for good polar opposite debates on ideological issues.
Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ?
I would hope not as that would go against any principle of independent political journalism.
However, as a left leaning paper, they're more aligned with Labour than any other broadsheet.
Those publications are generally left leaning and socialist in their views...
You're pushing it a bit to claim that the Guardian is "socialist". They're not even social democratic - it's been a very long time since Guardian leader writers have argued in favour of a mixed economy. Christian Democrat is probably a more honest description.
"Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ?"I would hope not as that would go against any principle of independent political journalism.
So the Guardian doesn't even support the Labour Party but you think their opinion on who should lead the Labour Party is of particular significance ?
The Guardian has thrown its support behind Labour to win the general election.
Looks fairly clear to me. Who said the Guardian was independant?
[i][b]"There is only one party on the ballot paper that, by its record in the old parliament, its manifesto for the new one and its leader's performance in the campaign, can claim to represent an agenda for radical, positive change in politics. That party is the Liberal Democrats. There is only one way clearly to endorse that message and that is to vote Liberal Democrat."[/i][/b]
- Observer Editorial. Saturday 1 May 2010
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/01/liberal-democrats-endorsement-observer ]Nick Clegg is the candidate of change[/url]
Oh how they got that wrong. I wouldn't attach too much importance to the opinions of employees of the Guardian/Observer.
It's worth noting that despite the unequivocal endorsement of the Guardian/Observer the LibDems did no better in 2010 than they had done in 2005, when they weren't endorsed by the Guardian/Observer, such is the gravitas of the Guardian's "political thinking".
I do love the Guardian as it's still the most entertaining paper out there. I still buy it every day. But it does amuse me the labour cheerleading from Polly Toynbee and her ilk, sending us the view of what british politics looks like from Tuscany. Or from their 3 million quid Islington pads. It's apt really, as they're as clueless as the Labour Party for much the same reason.
It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party
The Gurdian is probaly just concerned that an uber-lefty government might crack down on businesses registered in tax havens.
binners - MemberI do love the Guardian as it's still the most entertaining paper out there. I still buy it every day. But it does amuse me the labour cheerleading from Polly Toynbee and her ilk, sending us the view of what british politics looks like from Tuscany. Or from their 3 million quid Islington pads. It's apt really, as they're as clueless as the Labour Party for much the same reason.
It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party
Spot on as usual
I do love the Guardian as it's still the most entertaining paper out there. I still buy it every day. But it does amuse me the labour cheerleading from Polly Toynbee and her ilk, sending us the view of what british politics looks like from Tuscany. Or from their 3 million quid Islington pads. It's apt really, as they're as clueless as the Labour Party for much the same reason.
It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party
Brilliant!
It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party
Yes quite, except that Jeremy Corbyn is a London MP. From Islington no less - birthplace of New Labour.
Corbyn 47% on first preference........
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/07/jeremy-corbyn-takes-lead-new-poll
I wouldn't get too excited. I still don't think he'll win. And even if he does the right-wing will sabotage him, as they did Michael Foot - they much prefer a Tory government than a one which represents ordinary Labour voters.
Already right-wingers are plotting to organise a no confidence vote should he win, or cancel the result claiming that it was tainted by the interference of the Daily Telegraph.
Failing that some right-wingers will break away and form a rival party, and some will stay in the party queuing up to ridicule and denounce their Labour leader, as they did to Michael Foot.
And even if Corbyn did remain the elected leader of the Labour Party and then went on to win a general election he would be completely unable to govern effectively as he wouldn't have a majority of Labour MPs supporting him, right-wingers would rebel and vote with the Tories.
Remember that David Owen publicly declared that he would prefer a Tory government led by Thatcher than a Labour government led by Foot. That's David Owen who was Labour Foreign Secretary and famously said that the UK had to support the brutal Shah of Iran because the only effective opposition in Iran were the communists! Clearly a man who understood what he was talking about!
Besides, even if Corbyn didn't face all that opposition from the right-wing elite within his party his programme of nationalisation of the railways and the utilities would not be tolerated by the EU, assuming that Britain had voted to remain in the EU, which it almost certainly will. Look at Greece to see how effective the will of the people is.
I have registered to be a Labour supporter (by texting SUPPORT to 78555 (cost £3) that's how insanely easy it is) not because I am under any illusions about Corbyn being allowed to be an effective PM, but because I know that if Corbyn becomes Labour leader two things will happen.
Firstly the debate will move anyway from the Conservative/Labour/LibDem anti-people neoliberal consensus, it will have to.
And secondly because I know Corbyn will attempt to re-democratise the party and re-connect it with the people it purports to represents, the single most important thing which needs to happen to the Labour Party imo. As Corbyn himself puts it [i]"No leader has a monopoly on wisdom"[/i]. We need to bury this grotesque stalinist rule which states that one man, and one man alone, decides what the policies of the Labour Party are.
But as I say I think it's unlikely that he will win the leadership contest. We'll see.
And the fact that a candidate who is the nearest thing to an old labour politician i.e. socialist,is threatening to cause further division is a sign of how far Labour have moved from their supposed ideology.
Duckman I think it just shows that true left wing politics are not favoured in the UK by the majority if even the leftist main stream party is split like this. I hope Corbyn wins as it's likely to give people a proper choice at the next election so people like Ernie can clearly vote one way and everyone else the other way. Mind you Ernie's already getting his excuses in to explain why the left won't succeed and as usual it's all somebody elses fault, be it the Telegraph or the Tories or the EU. Couldn't possibly be down to the fact true left wing politics are not very workable or popular in the UK and left wing politicians are as rubbish as all the others or possible worse at working together. In fact the whole rhetoric of the left seems to boil down to it's not fair, it's not my fault, it's all their fault, if only we could live in our utopian bubble where the real world doesn't apply.
And even if he does the right-wing will sabotage him, as they did Michael Foot
Oh those [b]DASTARDLY[/b] right-wingers - I can hear them twirling their moustaches this very moment.
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I think you'll find that the evil puppet master of Cameron and co and manipulator of the gullible masses looks more like this
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Just look at today's papers all focusing on anything but the non election manifesto 40% cuts bonanza
Yougov poll seems to have him at an improbably massive lead.
If you work on the basis that Labour in its present form is unelectable in 2020 anyhow, then it becomes less of an issue, more of an advantage, to have the party 'rebooted' from scratch with a leader who perhaps isn't a serious electoral prospect, but may turn the debate away from 'what do we have to say to win?' towards 'what are we actually for?'
The recent Harman stuff on benefits has to be a nadir for the party.
Whether Corbyn would last to fight 2020 (He'd be 71) is debateable.
the guy is fit --what do you mean 71 ??
anyway, we are voting for hope not some youth contest !
I don't mean he's likely to die imminently 🙂 - more like the party would 'retire' him.
Sadly, general elections are youth contests these days.
The recent Harman stuff on benefits has to be a nadir for the party.
Indeed. A Labour MP (can't remember which one, theyr're all so instantly forgettable) was cahallenged about their failure to vote against benefit cuts. He said they hadn't, that they'd abstained, and high-hendedly went on to waffle on about the minutae of arcane parliamentary procedures, thus missing the point entirely.
And there, in a nutshell, you have the problem with the labour party. Its just talking to itself, instead of trying to communicate with the electorate. This pompous arse ended up chastising the listeners for not being fully au fait with parliamentary voting etiquette. Yeah... that'll win over the voters for sure. You've captured everyones imagination there! Stirring stuff!
George Osbourne doesn't have problems communicating with the electorate. His budget was delivered in a series of press-ready soundbites, with tomorrows headlnes already written for him, in words of 2 syllables that any numpty could understand
Meanwhile, somebody else electorally successful [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/21/snp-opposition-seats-blasting-labour-welfare-bill-stance ]also gets it![/url] The importance of effectively communicating what you stand for.
Goodbye Labour party. RIP.
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