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'Just give your support to the the libs' - funnily enough that is exactly what I did in the European elections...
Plenty of previously reliable lifelong labour supporters (i.e. the ones who would get off their arses and actually go the polling station) are no longer welcome. Great.
In truth I'll probably vote labour in a GE to try to stop the tories (I'd vote Lib Dem in a different constituency) but its depressing that my vote will no doubt be taken as a glowing endorsement of Corbyn by the momentum acolytes same as it was in the last GE.
Labour seem to be 3-14% behind the Tories
And that's with no enforced media and press neutrality as required by an election campaign. Things are not as bleak as you think they are.
I’m in exactly the same boat as AD. I live in an ultra-marginal seat that swings between Labour and the Tory’s (presently Labour)
My Labour MP is certainly no Corbynite (so no doubt on the hit list for deselection), but is a really good constituency MP and a thoroughly decent bloke, so that’s where my vote will be going again
I’ve voted Labour all my life (and I always vote) but voted Lib Dem at the E.U. elections because I just despair at the constant clueless political ineptitude and abject complacency of Corbyn and (as this thread demonstrates) his acolytes opinion of my centrist views as ‘Blaitite scum’ or ‘Tory-lite’.
So I’ll vote for my constituency Labour MP, but certainly not the hopeless leadership who will then take my vote as a ringing endorsement of some Brexiteer red unicorns fantasy nonsense
Depressing, but at least I won’t be represented (hopefully) by some ****ing Tory
I feel politically homeless and ever more despairing of our political system
Its quite simple really Binners. If being called a Blairite upsets you so much then keep your odious Blairite opinions to yourself. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Conversely, despite you trying to use it as some sort of insult, I don't mind being called "Comrade" or a "Socialist" so I don't whine about it when you (quite often) chuck those terms around.
Great answer! Sums you all up perfectly, comrade
With you’re zeal for ideological purity the Corbynites have become some kind of warped Islington, quinoa-knitting Taliban. Perhaps you could start administering punishment beatings for those with insufficient faith?
You’re familiar with the concept of democracy? Winning elections and stuff? Like him who’s name must be spat like an insult, who did it three times?
It’s an interesting approach to dispense with the time-consuming and pragmatic task of trying to win over marginal voters, and concentrate instead on driving away the ones you’ve got
Good look securing that majority
**** it! I think I’ll go with my heart and vote Lib Dem instead.
They seem a bit more sane. You lot are unhinged!
Conversely, despite you trying to use it as some sort of insult, I don’t mind being called “Comrade” or a “Socialist”
Just to dispel any confusion, both are insults. Similar to being called a nazi.
Both are ridiculously laughable, self-indulgent, middle-class affectations
Both are ridiculously laughable, self-indulgent, middle-class affectations
In fairness, you'd know best.
Similar to being called a nazi.
FFS.
...
You lot are unhinged!
😂😂😂 what a topsy turvy world
Lib Dem Brexit Policy is the same as Labours right?
2nd referendum with a leave option vs Remain.
**** it! I think I’ll go with my heart and vote Lib Dem instead.
No you won’t. Anyone who hates the tories, and brexit, despite what you might think about Corbyn, has no choice but to vote labour if they present the best chance to stop Johnson, the ERG, Farage, and brexit.
I see Swinson has said they’ll stand down Lib Dem candidates to support the 21 tory rebels. 21 tories who repeatedly voted for brexit, to stop a 2nd referendum, to enact May’s deal, and some of whom supported Johnson. Not to mention all the stuff they supported which has impoverished working people while giving tax cuts and benefits to the rich. Are you really going to support that?
You have to think Corbyn's plan is two fold
He hates the EU so let the Tories take us out as badly as possible
Once the EU is gone, things deteriorate post brexit and folk finally realise what's happened, then the Tories are properly finished and labour can take over for the foreseeable
I'm no Corbyn fan, but I can't see brexit being scrapped. let the Tories take the pain and blame then mop up after seems to be his approach.
I voted Labour in 2017.
Voted LibDem since.
I’ll be voting Labour in the next general election.
Lots of other people will hold their noses and do the same in many seats. Because it’s FPTP and the Conservative Brexit Party must be stopped.
Corbyn is still a barrier to Labour winning any election.
No one trusts him beyond his blind faithful core.
Not being Johnson or Farage will win him a hell of a lot of votes and seats, but not enough.
Tories having their voters split and losing seats to the smaller parties will be the best way to stop them… so if you’re in a Tory/LibDem marginal… for god’s sake vote LibDem… even if you felt the coalition was damaging. If you’re in a Tory Scottish seat… vote SNP… even if you’re against independence. This election is about one thing… stopping No Deal and the speedy right wing reorganisation of the UK that will follow it.
his blind faithful core.
Have you considered for a second that pretty much anyone who trots out this rubbish about cults, cabals, comrades, Marxists etc are simply repeating what the daily mail, sun, and telegraph churn out on a daily basis? And you call Corbyn supporters blind?
Get voters to trust Corbyn, or replace Corbyn. Those are the options for Labour. Moaning about how everyone is blinded by the press they know are biased is no answer.
Tories having their voters split and losing seats to the smaller parties will be the best way to stop them… so if you’re in a Tory/LibDem marginal… for god’s sake vote LibDem… even if you felt the coalition was damaging. If you’re in a Tory Scottish seat… vote SNP… even if you’re against independence. This election is about one thing… stopping No Deal and the speedy right wing reorganisation of the UK that will follow it.
Yet still the Tories have a big lead. Not enough for a majority but unbelievably better than labour. The media is painting every other party as the enemies of democracy. Pile anti socialist rhetoric on top and it's deadly for labour.
The Tories will get the largest share of the vote, now that they are set to take back a major share of Farage’s vote. How that translates into seats will depend on how everyone else votes… which probably also depends on the parties getting smart as regards where they stand and campaign. Relying on Labour to do much better than in 2017 as regards the seat count would not be wise at this stage.
Tories own polling shows them well short of a majority
It seems, bizarrely, that some people voted for Brexit as a mechanism for reducing non-white immigration. Since the vote, European migrants have been leaving and non-European immigrants have increased in number. If and when we achieve no deal with the EU I can only imagine the French will feel less need to constrain migrants in the camps in Calais (and they want shot of them anyway) and we'll find lots more rocking up in Dover. It will be interesting to see how all that plays with the Tories/Faragists. Going by the conversation I had last night, all of it will be Corbyn's fault anyway. Like with BloJo, when people start hurling insults and name-calling it generally reflects a lack of convincing arguments and a paucity of understanding.
Slow hand clap for Tom Watson.
Johnson and Cummings on the defensive, opposition parties united, the tories imploding, no deal looking unlikely, the polls narrowing, and Corbyn beginning to look like a statesman. Obviously things have been going too well and Watson’s leadership ambitions have taken a knock.
Yeah, its kind of exactly the wrong time to start pissing in the canoe.
Another interpretation of that is that there is a majority of both labour voters, members and MPs who think the time for the continued fence-sitting announced by Corbyn yesterday was over a long time ago.
But I do agree with you that he really shouldn't be voicing that so publicly as its just playing into the Tories hands. The opposition looks, for the first time in years, united, while with the Tories it's just a case of which cabinet minister will resign next (Nicky Morgan for my money).
He's managed to keep his trap shut for a few weeks, he should have kept it that way
Bollocks! I'm agreeing with Daz again!
Yeah, its kind of exactly the wrong time to start pissing in the canoe.
Tend to agree on this score, but then, Tom Watson has always been about the promotion of Tom Watson, and has form for plotting against the party leader (and prime minister).
He missed out on his best opportunity by partying at Glasto, so is keen to be first in the line this time around. The idea of him as a 'unity prime minister' is particularly ironic.
Odious creature.
Not sure about the 'Corbyn starting to look like a statesman' bit above, but I suppose it's all relative in the current political vacuum.
The idea of him as a ‘unity prime minister’ is particularly ironic.
Thing is he has absolutely bugger all chance of becoming PM. The media, especially the more tabloidy, positively adore Corbyn compared to Watson.
Unless he completely sells out to them and promises them everything the attack campaigns will set a new record low.
Obviously things have been going too well and Watson’s leadership ambitions have taken a knock.
Was about to jump in and say similar.
He's been absent for a while. Maybe getting his book ready for his weight loss journey?
Him and Jess make a good couple. She's got a book out you know? 😉
The media, especially the more tabloidy, positively adore Corbyn compared to Watson.
This is very true. Wouldn't put it past the tabloid editors to feed his delusions at this point just to get the chance to rip him a new one during a campaign. And Tom is certainly good at believing what he fancies believing.
Watson will never be leader or PM.
With that out of the way… Corbyn meets with union leaders, agrees policy, then gives speech suggesting that is party policy, without consultation with members or MPs. Watson than gives speech with an alternative position that many members and MPs support (and probable most Labour voters).
Now… is sticking to the position agreed by Corbyn and union leaders the wisest path to take… I’d agree that it is. Does anything bind the deputy leader to it? I don’t think so. He isn’t appointed by Corbyn or the NEC, or the parliamentary party, he is elected by the party members to speak and act for them. If he doesn’t, who does?
I'm sure Seamas will soon tell everyone what to think and that'll clear everything up.
Unelected advisors are certainly playing a central role in taking back control of UK democracy.
While I'm also inclined to agree on the unified front thing, it's conference - if you can't say what you think there, where can you say it?
I’m sure Seamas will soon tell everyone what to think and that’ll clear everything up.
Interestingly I read somewhere that the reason everything's gone a bit more smoothly recently has been because Seamus has been on an extended 'holiday', which has allowed John McD, Thornberry and Starmer to work on Jezza over the summer.
Also, the combined union position seems to be exactly that… and not just something pushed by “Len”. That still doesn’t mean that members and MPs shouldn’t have a say before the policy cooked up behind closed doors is presented as settled, and anyone deviating from it silenced.
I've also read that in more than one place Daz.
Just confirms what has been obvious for a while about the whole 'bunker mentality' and which member of the 'team' is the most confrontational, controlling and completely closed to the idea of compromise.
I hope this is the sign of things to come and not a temporary blip.
The fact is that Dominic Cummings and Seamas Milne are two cheeks of the same arse
Not very similar at all. Except that both are perhaps trusted too much on strategy by party leaders. They have very different aims and means.
Even Polly Toynbee has come around to Corbyn's set up. There will be some concerns in Waitrose car park.
The horrible reality of Boris Johnson as PM, who's exceeding even the very worse predictions, with a psychopath pulling his strings, and the ERG charging towards the cliff edge, has certainly focussed minds
Corbyn is still shit. But right now he's by far the least shit realistic option, and the clock is ticking...
Johnson has helped Corbyn look like a PM in waiting, when they are in Parliament. The sooner PMQs get going again… the better.
Distraction, Kimbers.
https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1175021691124236289?s=19
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1175085538765889537?s=19
Long game...
Why pick now to have a party purge?
Because they don't want to go into an election with Watson constantly undermining everything.
It will be voted on.
Whereas the Tories booted 21 MPs without any sort of democratic process ...
Jess Phillips showing up just in time this weekend for the Sunday Times magazine.
She's really not much of a self-publicist is she? What the hell good does this do for Labour?
Is this all part of Jeremy’s quest to ‘restore democracy to the party’?
As long as everyone carries on agreeing with me then you can have all the democracy you like, comrades.
I wonder who’s next to be airbrushed out of the politburo photographs?
Nice to see the focus is on the most pressing issues of the day though. I suppose that’s what happens when everything’s just ticking over nicely...
It’s not just Phillips though, is it @rone. This action seems to have sprung loads of MPs into vocal and fervent condemnation of what’s going on in their party.
